Thoughts on Pay Scales/Rates/Ranges?

[jpiniero]

You aren't going to pick someone off who is happy with their current job without any sort of incentive. Telling me up front you can pay me $X more than I currently make can definitely be an incentive to proceed about hearing more information. Telling me up front you can only pay me -$X more than I currently make will save both of us a lot of time.

And they can still do that by asking what you are looking for without having to give up a range first.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, people think they are entitled to the top end of the range even if the company really wanted to pay at the bottom... or less.

 

[purbeast0]

And they can still do that by asking what you are looking for without having to give up a range first.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, people think they are entitled to the top end of the range even if the company really wanted to pay at the bottom... or less.

I wouldn't even say it's about feeling entitled at all. It's more about tell me what I could potentially be making before we continue on because I don't want to waste your time or mine. If the company wanted to pay at the bottom of their range, or less, then don't fucking lie about your range.

But typically when a recruiter hits me up, they just say something like "here are some details let me know if you want to hear more" and that is it. They don't usually say "let me know what you are looking for" in their first message, so I always reply asking them the range. Sometimes they ask me what I'm looking for and I will reply with what I'm looking for, but for me personally, as I mentioned, it's usually them replying talking about "we pay top notch" or "we pay competitive" blah blah blah.

And when I do get replies back giving me a hard range with real numbers I always thank them for the transparency because it's a breath of fresh air.

Same with when they reply back asking me what I am looking for and they reply telling me it's not paying that high. I'd be more than happy with them replying back asking me for what I am looking for rather than a canned "competitive pay" response. As said, that immediately tells me they aren't going to be paying anywhere near what it would take me to jump.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

You aren't going to pick someone off who is happy with their current job without any sort of incentive. Telling me up front you can pay me $X more than I currently make can definitely be an incentive to proceed about hearing more information. Telling me up front you can only pay me -$X more than I currently make will save both of us a lot of time.

Again, it isn't about that (at least for me). Its about knowing that everybody gets the same pay range for the same job. It's about transparency. It's about ethics.

 

[jpiniero]

Again, it isn't about that (at least for me). Its about knowing that everybody gets the same pay range for the same job. It's about transparency. It's about ethics.

Transparency about what other people are making might be better approach.

Same with when they reply back asking me what I am looking for and they reply telling me it's not paying that high. I'd be more than happy with them replying back asking me for what I am looking for rather than a canned "competitive pay" response. As said, that immediately tells me they aren't going to be paying anywhere near what it would take me to jump.

Which is totally fine. They will just hire someone else.

 

[purbeast0]

Transparency about what other people are making might be better approach.



Which is totally fine. They will just hire someone else.

They are recruiters working with a bunch of different companies. They know what those companies are paying people.

And like I said I have no problem telling them what I am looking to get paid. What I currently make is completely irrelevant to what I am looking to get paid at a new position.

And yep, they will hire someone else who will taker lesser pay than I would. And we didn't waste but a minute of each other's time.

 

[jpiniero]

If you are talking about third party recruiters, that's a whole different situation. Lot of cases there is no job, they just want people on the phone to boost their KPIs.

They are recruiters working with a bunch of different companies. They know what those companies are paying people.

The intent of the law is to help candidates understand what they should be making and not lowball themselves.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

That is why you just ignore companies that won't tell you upfront what the pay range is.

I get hit up by like 5+ recruiters a week and I ALWAYS respond with the same exact thing saying I'm happy but open to hearing about stuff, let me know pay range and benefits and I'll let you know if I'll realistically consider it.

90% of the time, if they even reply, it is "they dont have a set range and will pay for top talent" or "they are competitive" blah blah blah.

I just tell em thanks but not interested.

No chance I'm wasting any more than 30 seconds of my time writing a message back to them if they can't tell me what the potential pay is. If they aren't telling me, then I am 100% positive it is less than I'm making, because if you were offering more than what I'm making, you would have good people lined up to interview.

Well, that's just it - I say exactly "I'm looking for $X. Is that in your range?" They say yes.

And then they don't offer that in the final offer. It wastes my time and theirs.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

The Hail with what you want. That's exactly the point of this thread. Every applicant needs to see the same figures.

This position pays this range $X to $X, commensurate with experience.

You don't like it? Lump it.


And why the hail would they want a practice director? Can't they shoot for a real director?

I have no problem if tney'd post the actual ranges. I'm fine with that.

But whenever a recruiter contacts me, I ask 3 questions before any call:

1. "I'm looking for $X - is that in their range?" If not, PASS.
2. "Is it a remote, hybrid, or onsite position?" If on-site, PASS.
3. "Contract or FTE?" If contract, I'll likely pass.

And then there are the "recruiters" who spam everyone for their silly job. I had one jackass ping me on LinkedIN for a desktop support role. I replied: "That sounds awesome! I need $250K and 6 weeks of PTO to start. Is that possible?" Never heard back. lol

 

[purbeast0]

Yeah I've been hit up by recruiters who say "you look like a perfect fit for our Ruby on Rails backend position" and I will reply back asking them why they think I am a good fit. I have never heard back from any of those people.

If they actually looked at my resume or linkedin, they would see that I'm primarily a front end web developer but I have done the full stack. Nowhere does it say I have professionally done Ruby on Rails. So I am hoping I can get a response to one of these just once. So far though, nope.

 

[purbeast0]

Well, that's just it - I say exactly "I'm looking for $X. Is that in your range?" They say yes.

And then they don't offer that in the final offer. It wastes my time and theirs.

Yeah that is a huge waste of everyone's time. Probably better off not working for a shitty company like that.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Yeah I've been hit up by recruiters who say "you look like a perfect fit for our Ruby on Rails backend position" and I will reply back asking them why they think I am a good fit. I have never heard back from any of those people.

If they actually looked at my resume or linkedin, they would see that I'm primarily a front end web developer but I have done the full stack. Nowhere does it say I have professionally done Ruby on Rails. So I am hoping I can get a response to one of these just once. So far though, nope.

The first time someone sent me a position that I obviously never would take, I responded and said: "Look at my profile - do you seriously think I would take a position that low?" Then, I thought I'd just have fun trolling them and making them feel like idiots. No one has responded to me yet, but I do hope one does!

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Yeah that is a huge waste of everyone's time. Probably better off not working for a shitty company like that.

I actually had one company say: "Oh, we can do better than that!"

They came in below what I specifically said I needed. So much for "we can do better than that."

 

[deadlyapp]

Funny that this thread popped back up in my notifications today.

I'm happy with my current job, my team is doing exceptionally well this year and probably will top our our bonuses (an additional 30-50% of our base salary), and there's a promotion that opened up that I'm pursuing and short listed for.

With that said, I had a recruiter reach out to me a couple of weeks ago about a very good potential position. Problem was, the recruiter knew my number, and he knew the budget for the position. He did think that he might be able to get them to look at me for a higher level role in the same group. Great. Set up the interview. Interview went great, but they were worried about putting me in the higher level role - it's a slightly different piece of the market than I'm most familiar with and that gave them pause. So instead they offered for the lower role, and I'll acknowledge it was a great offer. Well above the market rate, well above their budget, but they made things happen to try to get me onboard, including a sign on. At the end of the day however, the possibility of a promotion internally and a basically lateral pay change I ended up saying no. Which hurt.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

I had a recruiter reach out to me ...

Did they use the big hook?

 

[jpiniero]

And then there are the "recruiters" who spam everyone for their silly job. I had one jackass ping me on LinkedIN for a desktop support role. I replied: "That sounds awesome! I need $250K and 6 weeks of PTO to start. Is that possible?" Never heard back. lol

Something tells me they are quite aware spamming is going to get some angry responses. But it also probally gets them leads.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Something tells me they are quite aware spamming is going to get some angry responses. But it also probally gets them leads.

They’re lazy and just playing the numbers. Might as well troll them back.

 

[deadlyapp]

Did they use the big hook?

More coat hanger esque