Thoughts on Affirmative Action??

[DCal430]

Looking at the data from the American Community Survey, it seems that African Americans tend to focus too much on Social Sciences and Humanities in terms of areas of study, while Asians tend to focus more on STEM and Business areas. Something should be done to move more african-ameicans away from SS and Humanities to STEM and Business, education that has the most value.

 

[shira]

Hiring someone based of the color of their skin vs. the qualifications they possess is called discrimination reguardless of which skin color you are trying to advance.

"Qualifications" is a vague term. Diversity is an inherently beneficial characteristic in any organization, as it enhances knowledge and creativity. Yet you seem to believe that diversity shouldn't be included as a "qualification."

 

[SheHateMe]

"Qualifications" is a vague term. Diversity is an inherently beneficial characteristic in any organization, as it enhances knowledge and creativity. Yet you seem to believe that diversity shouldn't be included as a "qualification."

I wonder how he'd feel if an Employer hired someone just because they were non-white and qualified. Would he complain about fairness then?

After all, MANY companies really are trying to diversify their workforce. For some reason, people have it in their minds that Affirmative Action is going to allow an unqualified black person to be a Rocket Scientist or something.


* Just a little aside

I went to a Networking Mixer for IT related careers. I met with over 20 companies and chatted it up with a few representatives that were really enthusiastic about their companies. One company in particular really caught my eye because they had positions for exactly what I wanted to do.

I waited in line for about 40 minutes to talk to this wonderful woman from Kellogg and when I finally got up to her, I talked to her about my interests and showed her my resume.

When she saw that I had a lot of qualifications and shared the interests of the company she started going on and on to me about "Diversity" and how there are not many women (pretty much non-existent) in the field I want to go into. She said it was a "hidden" field and that Kellogg is trying to encourage people to consider other types of fields in IT. She literally dropped that word into every other sentence.

I was laughing on the inside about it because It was pretty obvious that she wanted to apply. I'm like a buy 1 get one 1 hire. They're looking for Women interested in Network Engineering...I'm a woman, plus, I'm brown! Double points!

Anyway, she invited me for an interview for a Internship in Chicago



....I also noticed that people are putting things like QR codes on their resumes now. One guy even had clip art. I need to make a cooler resume

 

[waggy]

Oh right, thats because it wasnt in response to my comment about the United States Government saying that Negroes were intellectually incapable of flying aircraft.

He responds by saying that there is some empirical evidence to support their concerns...since you know, there weren't many blacks in the south that had math skills.

Are you kidding me? Do some research into black history during that era, there were black Universities and Colleges popping up everywhere in the South, they wanted to get a proper education and whites barred them from having access to the same resources they do, so, they built their own shit. They built their own stuff and educated themselves.

There is no empirical evidence to back up the claims of the Government during that time to support their theory that Blacks were intellectually inferior to whites. It was White Supremacy, if their "science" was true...how the fudge did the Tuskegee experiment turn out so damned well?

So... Negroes were too dumb to do math...so they couldn't fly planes..but somehow the Government found a group of them that were one of the best defense squadrons they had available.

LOL you didn't read or understand what he said. kinda funny considering the thread to tell you the truth.

Empirical evidence that blacks are predisposed to be intellectually inferior to whites, eh? It didnt have anything to do with Science, it had everything to do with White Supremacy. Period. By that time, blacks had setup their own colleges and Universities and were actually getting some pretty impressive degrees from those institutions.

Also the Tuskegee Airme...

You know what, nevermind. I quit.

he did not say that "Empirical evidence that blacks are predisposed to be intellectually inferior to whites".

he is not saying they lack the ability but lack people willing to teach them. People during that time really thought blacks were inferior and trying to teach them such things as advanced math to be a waste. The culture about the black at the time was such. He brings up where the service men were taught to believe in themselves and had CO's who (acted) like they believed in them. they did great.

The Tuskegee Airmen were amazing. they had dedicated CO's and trainers. They succeed and became one of the most decorated in history. Why? they had beleife in themselves and WORKED hard to succeed. they didn't ask for special favors, they didn't ask to be admitted based on the color of there skin. they just wanted a shot.

they succeeded because they were willing to do it. they were willing to work hard.

 

[SheHateMe]

LOL you didn't read or understand what he said. kinda funny considering the thread to tell you the truth.



he did not say that "Empirical evidence that blacks are predisposed to be intellectually inferior to whites".

he is not saying they lack the ability but lack people willing to teach them. People during that time really thought blacks were inferior and trying to teach them such things as advanced math to be a waste. The culture about the black at the time was such. He brings up where the service men were taught to believe in themselves and had CO's who (acted) like they believed in them. they did great.

The Tuskegee Airmen were amazing. they had dedicated CO's and trainers. They succeed and became one of the most decorated in history. Why? they had beleife in themselves and WORKED hard to succeed. they didn't ask for special favors, they didn't ask to be admitted based on the color of there skin. they just wanted a shot.

they succeeded because they were willing to do it. they were willing to work hard.

I actually read his comment quite a few times before reading.

As far as our World War II pre-integration era military, being a pilot required a LOT of math. There probably weren't a lot of blacks, especially from the South, with that ability. (Or more specifically, with the prerequisite education to learn the math, not the ability to learn the math.) So yes, that was racism, but there was also some empirical evidence to at least give cover.

Despite his belief that it could be plausible that blacks just couldnt do the job...there is proof that at the time, blacks were educating themselves and they were successful. He doesn't know for sure if blacks actually had the education to learn math...yet, we see many blacks going to college at that time. If they could read and learn Medicine, why couldn't they have prior math education?

Since you seem to understand better than I do...what was the purpose of his "Emphirical evidence" comment in the context of the subject? What Empirical evidence?

The Tuskegee program was a success indeed, but it only continued because the President's wife stepped in and vouched for them. Sure, they worked hard..but they were not taken seriously because they were black. They were judged from the git-go.

I guess you could say that were recipients of Affirmative Action. Had it not been for someone giving them a chance for being black...it would not have happened.

Why? they had beleife in themselves and WORKED hard to succeed. they didn't ask for special favors, they didn't ask to be admitted based on the color of there skin. they just wanted a shot.

hmmm, could this not be applied to underprivileged youth trying to get into college too?

I don't think anyone ASKS to be admitted to anywhere based on the color of their skin, that's a office decision. But, even if they were admitted for that reason alone..it doesn't mean they won't work hard.

 

[Svnla]

<snip> they had beleife in themselves and WORKED hard to succeed. they didn't ask for special favors, they didn't ask to be admitted based on the color of there skin. they just wanted a shot.

they succeeded because they were willing to do it. they were willing to work hard.

Well said, waggy, especially the bolded/underlined parts. Sound like those fellas had similar traits (hard work and willing to do it) as those Asian students that I mentioned with the PBS Frontline link. They did not running around and beat up bus driver as the link I posted above.

 

[waggy]

I actually read his comment quite a few times before reading.



Despite his belief that it could be plausible that blacks just couldnt do the job...there is proof that at the time, blacks were educating themselves and they were successful. He doesn't know for sure if blacks actually had the education to learn math...yet, we see many blacks going to college at that time. If they could read and learn Medicine, why couldn't they have prior math education?

Since you seem to understand better than I do...what was the purpose of his "Emphirical evidence" comment in the context of the subject? What Empirical evidence?

The Tuskegee program was a success indeed, but it only continued because the President's wife stepped in and vouched for them. Sure, they worked hard..but they were not taken seriously because they were black. They were judged from the git-go.

I guess you could say that were recipients of Affirmative Action. Had it not been for someone giving them a chance for being black...it would not have happened.



hmmm, could this not be applied to underprivileged youth trying to get into college too?

I don't think anyone ASKS to be admitted to anywhere based on the color of their skin, that's a office decision. But, even if they were admitted for that reason alone..it doesn't mean they won't work hard.

they had a shot to get into college. its called high school.

 

[SheHateMe]

they had a shot to get into college. its called high school.

So, are you saying that by going to High School...you have a shot at College?

You know we are talking about the segregated South, right? Not Affirmative Action.

 

[Svnla]

they had a shot to get into college. its called high school.

You would think they go to high school to learn and then go to college? Ha! See links below. Imagine white students would do such things to black students and the white principal would act like the principal in the story.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/2010-01-22-asian-bullying-philadelphia_n.htm (of course, the perpetrators were not racist, not at all <sarcastic>). Read the comment section below of that story and you would see these.

http://www.usatoday.com/community/profile.htm?UID=52f6b15372d0b0ff

newmexicocraig (2 friends, send message) wrote: 1/23/2010 4:15:38 AM
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

Looks like black students and principals aren't being taught much about the words of Rev Martin Luther King Jr in our government schools these days.

But at least they get the holiday off.

http://www.usatoday.com/community/profile.htm?UID=52f6b15372d0b0ffhttp://www.usatoday.com/community/profile.htm?UID=52f6b15372d0b0ffhttp://www.usatoday.com/community/profile.htm?UID=52f6b15372d0b0ff




[/QUOTE]

Scottsman (4 friends, send message) wrote: 4/7/2010 9:42:46 AM
Racism is a human disease of the mind, afflicting more than just white people. Until the school officials can come to terms with the fact that African Americans can be racist too, there can be no resolution of the problem.

Love this one: (Asian agenda)


[/QUOTE]

Paul2110 (0 friends, send message) wrote: 2/16/2010 9:33:55 PM
Principal LaGreta Brown needs to be fired immediately. She complains the Chinese are pushing the "Asian agenda" on her school... What's that? Go to school, study hard, get good grades and go to college???? OH HELL NO! We don't want any of that up in here. We want the chilldrens to have sex, do drugs, get pregnant, and go on welfare. Much better.

More bad behavior from teens = http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2273794

Yup, it is all the fault of racist/whitey/Bush/Republicans/The Pope/<fill in the blank of excuses>

 

[EagleKeeper]

So, are you saying that by going to High School...you have a shot at College?

You know we are talking about the segregated South, right? Not Affirmative Action.

From Virginia, Kentucky, Tenn,NC, SC, GA, Fla, Ala,Miss, LA; there are probably close to 50 state Universities.

I would expect that all have black students; Most of those black students come from the local market; not imported from elsewhere across the country.

Then look at how many that are not recruited for sports actually graduate?

And that does not even count the intended black colleges or the private schools.

Blacks can make it; it is others that feel that the blacks should be held back because others in the black community do not want to push forward.

Military, Business, Politics, Science - all have succeeded and can be role models showing that if a black wants to try; the opportunity is there to succeed. IT may take some perseverance and a little luck; but unless you try; you wil not succeed.

It is the fear of failure that creates a perceived need for AA; a crutch to keep others handicapped by saying that one can not succeed on an playing field; that the game has to be rigged in the blacks' favor.

 

[werepossum]

I actually read his comment quite a few times before reading.



Despite his belief that it could be plausible that blacks just couldnt do the job...there is proof that at the time, blacks were educating themselves and they were successful. He doesn't know for sure if blacks actually had the education to learn math...yet, we see many blacks going to college at that time. If they could read and learn Medicine, why couldn't they have prior math education?

Since you seem to understand better than I do...what was the purpose of his "Emphirical evidence" comment in the context of the subject? What Empirical evidence?

The Tuskegee program was a success indeed, but it only continued because the President's wife stepped in and vouched for them. Sure, they worked hard..but they were not taken seriously because they were black. They were judged from the git-go.

I guess you could say that were recipients of Affirmative Action. Had it not been for someone giving them a chance for being black...it would not have happened.



hmmm, could this not be applied to underprivileged youth trying to get into college too?

I don't think anyone ASKS to be admitted to anywhere based on the color of their skin, that's a office decision. But, even if they were admitted for that reason alone..it doesn't mean they won't work hard.

Waggy understood my point. I even added "Or more specifically, with the prerequisite education to learn the math, not the ability to learn the math" so it couldn't possibly be misunderstood. So let me try again.

Your average Negro of the time had access to only poor schools, especially in the South. Teachers in many of those schools were incompetent themselves and thus could not teach complicated subjects such as mathematics. Others were convinced that blacks were inherently inferior and would not try teaching math to blacks. Still others were competent and had faith in their black students, but lacked the materials to effectively teach. It's very difficult to teach, say, geometry, without geometry books. These things combined to produce blacks who on average were far behind whites in math. This was true to an extent with other things as well, to a lesser extent. Special Forces for example had a difficult time recruiting blacks because swimming was a requirement and many urban blacks had no access to pools during segregation. Tank and transport schools had to teach most blacks to drive because they had no opportunity to learn. Yet teaching people to swim or drive is much easier than teaching several years' worth of math. More importantly, it's much quicker.

So I'm not claiming that blacks lacked the ability to learn the math, I'm pointing out that most blacks lacked the requisite background training to learn the math in the program without remedial math courses. Remember, there was a war going on with the fate of the world at stake. There was no remedial education; you either learned the material, on schedule, or you were kicked out to make room for another to try. It's the same for the white kid that dropped out of fifth grade (not unusual at that time) or the Mexican child of fruit pickers whose English was never strong enough to pick up complicated subjects like math while being dragged around the country following the harvest. The big difference was in the numbers; far more blacks were affected by these circumstances than were whites. That put blacks (again, on average) at a disadvantage in seeking technical, higher qualified jobs such as aircraft pilot. It was possible - even during slavery we've had some educated and privileged blacks - but from a numbers standpoint it was much more difficult to find qualified pilot candidates who were black. That in turn reinforced the prejudices of those who believed blacks could not learn such technical skills, and from a numbers standpoint made it more prudent to exclude blacks rather than lose those (mostly Southerners) who would have refused to serve with blacks. This dynamic is different in pilot school than in, say, mechanic school or tank school or even OCS, where the number of qualified black applicants would more than make up for those who dropped out rather than serve alongside blacks.

So you can say it was racism and I'll largely agree. I'm just pointing out that the legacy of slavery and segregation was a significant factor, perhaps as much so as the racism and/or prejudice of those making the decisions, when you're discussing pilot training.

 

[werepossum]

So, are you saying that by going to High School...you have a shot at College?

You know we are talking about the segregated South, right? Not Affirmative Action.

In Tennessee, any student graduating high school has a shot at admission. Automatic admission requires one of:
a minimum imum 3.0 GPA
a minimum composite ACT of 22 (SAT of 1020)
a minimum 2.7 GPA and minimum ACT of 19 (SAT of 900)

One can still apply and be accepted without any of these, but any of these three things guarantees an automatic admission. And all that is for every resident of Tennessee, before any affirmative action.

By the way, it might surprise you to learn that the South is no longer segregated. Anyone can live anywhere she can afford, regardless of race. It's been that way for the last half century. Gettum clue, young lady.

 

[SheHateMe]

From Virginia, Kentucky, Tenn,NC, SC, GA, Fla, Ala,Miss, LA; there are probably close to 50 state Universities.

I would expect that all have black students; Most of those black students come from the local market; not imported from elsewhere across the country.

Then look at how many that are not recruited for sports actually graduate?

And that does not even count the intended black colleges or the private schools.

Blacks can make it; it is others that feel that the blacks should be held back because others in the black community do not want to push forward.

Military, Business, Politics, Science - all have succeeded and can be role models showing that if a black wants to try; the opportunity is there to succeed. IT may take some perseverance and a little luck; but unless you try; you wil not succeed.

It is the fear of failure that creates a perceived need for AA; a crutch to keep others handicapped by saying that one can not succeed on an playing field; that the game has to be rigged in the blacks' favor.

We were not talking about modern day America, we were talking about blacks being barred access to education by whites during times of segregation. More specifically, we were discussing the point that the US Government used to endorse the idea that blacks were predisposed to be intellectually inferior to whites...

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

But anyway, I'm from Detroit. There are probably about 5 or 6 major CC and Universities around the area. However, many of the High Schoolers in Detroit either don't finish or they don't make it to college.

My mother pulled me out of Detroit schools when I was 8 years old because they were so bad. Some of these schools, the students learn nothing. She actually made me finish 8th grade in a Detroit Middle school because I go in trouble at my own school for being a knucklehead teenager. That 8th grade year was so tough for me because it was a complete 180 from the schools I had access to. For starters, the only teacher I learned anything from was my homeroom teacher. He taught Social Studies and English in the morning to us and then we went off to some other bullshit classes where we learned absolutely nothing. My classmates? Tyrannts, atleast the bulk of them. There were only a few kids in class that actually did the work. There were two girls that sat near me, one in front and one behind that hated my guts because I participated in class. The girl behind me, Shaina, was a bitch to me in practically every class we had. For no reason at all other than I didn't act up and I just did my work. When that year was finally over, I went to high school back in my neck of the woods and I never got in trouble again (well..until I was a senior, lol)

I turned on the news the other day to hear a report about a student who complained to the school board in Detroit that he did not have books for his classes and that some of his classes did not have permanent teachers. They (the news) went to the school and found many of the students being held in the gym for hours because there were no teachers. Either they were all in the gym, or they were leaving school early to go home. It was disgusting.

So no...going to HS doesnt give you a shot at college. This is not necessarily true for everyone.

Detroit's public schools have been on the outs for YEARS now. If you live in Detroit and you want your kid to get a quality education in High School with a guaranteed shot at College..there are 3 high schools in Detroit you can choose from. Renaissance, Cass Tech, and King High School. The only 3 nationally recognized High Schools in Detroit with a high turnover rate for college admission. You have to be really smart ("Smart" as in good enough grades from middle school) to get into these schools or atleast have a good recommendation put in for you. There are maybe a few hundred spots a year...there are over a thousand HS kids in Detroit.

Isnt that sad? I'm just glad I'd moved out to the suburbs and had access to FAR better schools before I was in Middle School.

For me, College Admission was guaranteed, I had great test scores, competitive transcripts, and teachers who believed in me and wrote recommendations. But, I also didn't get to school in Detroit...so I had a fighting chance.

The average kid in Detroit doesn't get that.

In Tennessee, any student graduating high school has a shot at admission. Automatic admission requires one of:
a minimum imum 3.0 GPA
a minimum composite ACT of 22 (SAT of 1020)
a minimum 2.7 GPA and minimum ACT of 19 (SAT of 900)

One can still apply and be accepted without any of these, but any of these three things guarantees an automatic admission. And all that is for every resident of Tennessee, before any affirmative action.

By the way, it might surprise you to learn that the South is no longer segregated. Anyone can live anywhere she can afford, regardless of race. It's been that way for the last half century. Gettum clue, young lady.

Those are easy to meet standards!

Also, I never said the South was still Segregated. We were talking about history, remember? Before you tell me to get a clue, how about you go back and examine the subject matter of the earlier posts. It was pretty clear I was talking about America during WWII. Hence the conversation about the Tuskegee Airmen.

 

[xj0hnx]

So no...going to HS doesnt give you a shot at college. This is not necessarily true for everyone.

So are we to take away from this that a white kid at this school would some how magically have books, and teachers appear?

 

[SheHateMe]

So are we to take away from this that a white kid at this school would some how magically have books, and teachers appear?

Is that what I said?

Nope.

Try reading my post. Its right above yours. I clearly outlined the meaning behind my statement.

404 Racial Discrimination not found.

 

[werepossum]

SNIP


Those are easy to meet standards!

Also, I never said the South was still Segregated. We were talking about history, remember? Before you tell me to get a clue, how about you go back and examine the subject matter of the earlier posts. It was pretty clear I was talking about America during WWII. Hence the conversation about the Tuskegee Airmen.

Fair enough. We both seem to be sometimes lacking in grasping the other's point. And kudos to your mom for seeing the problem and realizing that it is HER responsibility, not government's. I had neighbors who together earned three times what I earn (my wife doesn't work any more) and their son, though a talented quarterback on a private school scholarship, could barely read, and yet their attitude was "That's not my job, that's the school's job."

And yes, these are easy to meet standards. They should be, in my opinion. A four year degree from a state university, even in liberal arts or women's studies or whatever, can open a lot of doors, and if a student is willing to put in the work, she should be able to get in and have her shot. Incidentally, Tennessee's college enrollment of blacks is still only half the percentage of blacks within the general population even with affirmative action, so clearly it's not working. Which is not to say it should be abolished, just to say it needs some new thought and a new direction.

So are we to take away from this that a white kid at this school would some how magically have books, and teachers appear?

Rather, statistically a black child is much more likely to be trapped in such a school by accident of birth than is a white child. Culturally, only Asians overcome such environments in really significant numbers. It's relatively easy to see why, too. My youngest grandson (six) is in a pretty poor school (in terms of wealth, it's not a bad school academically) with a fair mix of white, black, Hispanic and Asian students. In baseball and soccer, Asians are nowhere to be found, and Hispanics participate in low numbers. Blacks and whites participate roughly equally from a casual glance at classroom and team. The Asian kids are found in band, math camp, science tutoring, etc. Even if the family has to scrimp and eat rice three times a day to afford those things. Compared to the Asian tiger moms and dads, the rest of us. . . Well, as South Park says, we rack disciprine.

 

[SheHateMe]

Fair enough. We both seem to be sometimes lacking in grasping the other's point. And kudos to your mom for seeing the problem and realizing that it is HER responsibility, not government's. I had neighbors who together earned three times what I earn (my wife doesn't work any more) and their son, though a talented quarterback on a private school scholarship, could barely read, and yet their attitude was "That's not my job, that's the school's job."

The sad thing is, my mom was born and raised in Detroit. She graduated HS in 1984 and told me that she went to school with all types of kids, the schools were better back then, and there were great teachers.

Detroit schools were still good until about 98' when the School Board started stealing from the students...and they still are.

The only people who are losing out are the kids.


Also, I havent been back to Detroit to live since about 8 years ago. My grandmother still lives there and when I go back to visit, I find it hard to feel that sense of belonging that I used to. I've actually had Detroiters come up to me and ask me where I'm from. ^_^

I just feel like I have an obligation to continue all the good I'm doing so somebody else will take notice and do the same. I still have a 5 year old sister that I need to keep raising.

She's my little Mini-Me.

 

[werepossum]

The sad thing is, my mom was born and raised in Detroit. She graduated HS in 1984 and told me that she went to school with all types of kids, the schools were better back then, and there were great teachers.

Detroit schools were still good until about 98' when the School Board started stealing from the students...and they still are.

The only people who are losing out are the kids.


Also, I havent been back to Detroit to live since about 8 years ago. My grandmother still lives there and when I go back to visit, I find it hard to feel that sense of belonging that I used to. I've actually had Detroiters come up to me and ask me where I'm from. ^_^

I just feel like I have an obligation to continue all the good I'm doing so somebody else will take notice and do the same. I still have a 5 year old sister that I need to keep raising.

She's my little Mini-Me.

Far too many school districts nowadays are run as jobs programs rather than educational systems. And by all means keep doing good; the best thing one can do for society is to be a nice, helpful, productive person, and the best things one can give a child are a good home and a positive role model. (Unless, you know, the child's drowning or on fire or something. Then there are probably better things to give her.)

Are you raising your sister all by yourself, or helping your mom raise her?

 

[SheHateMe]

Far too many school districts nowadays are run as jobs programs rather than educational systems. And by all means keep doing good; the best thing one can do for society is to be a nice, helpful, productive person, and the best things one can give a child are a good home and a positive role model. (Unless, you know, the child's drowning or on fire or something. Then there are probably better things to give her.)

Are you raising your sister all by yourself, or helping your mom raise her?

Actually, she's my father's child with someone else.

My dad is as absent from her life as he was mine. Although, he does spend every other weekend with her..more than he did with me. Her mother works for the State and does very well for herself (without child support)..however, the downside is...she doesn't have a lot time for my sister.

So, I volunteer to take care of her when school and work doesn't get in the way. I love seeing her and I think she loves hanging out with me too I let her do whatever she wants as long as it is within reason and she eats her breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Shes another one of those kids that would rather eat Cheez-its than to eat real food


I'm just worried shes too much of a Diva already!

 

[werepossum]

Actually, she's my father's child with someone else.

My dad is as absent from her life as he was mine. Although, he does spend every other weekend with her..more than he did with me. Her mother works for the State and does very well for herself (without child support)..however, the downside is...she doesn't have a lot time for my sister.

So, I volunteer to take care of her when school and work doesn't get in the way. I love seeing her and I think she loves hanging out with me too I let her do whatever she wants as long as it is within reason and she eats her breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Shes another one of those kids that would rather eat Cheez-its than to eat real food


I'm just worried shes too much of a Diva already!

Good for you. Providing that kind of support for a child is more good for society than many people manage their whole lives. One good, caring adult who pays attention to her and teaches her to be a good person is worth more to a child than any amount of government affirmative action.

 

[DCal430]

TODAY their is no great difference in level of discrimination that African-Americans experience that Southeast Asian Americans don't. I am not talking about 50 years ago, and definitely not 150 years ago. I am talking about today.

 

[waggy]

Actually, she's my father's child with someone else.

My dad is as absent from her life as he was mine. Although, he does spend every other weekend with her..more than he did with me. Her mother works for the State and does very well for herself (without child support)..however, the downside is...she doesn't have a lot time for my sister.

So, I volunteer to take care of her when school and work doesn't get in the way. I love seeing her and I think she loves hanging out with me too I let her do whatever she wants as long as it is within reason and she eats her breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Shes another one of those kids that would rather eat Cheez-its than to eat real food


I'm just worried shes too much of a Diva already!

good for you. Kids's need a "parent" type in there life. We adopted my wife's sister for the same reason. We nearly adopted her sisters baby because she would rather go party and do drugs then take care of the baby. I just don't have the energy to deal with a 2 yr old now heh. getting old sucks.

I think that having a 2 parents (one staying home) is the best for kids (lol that though is another discussion). kids NEED postive roll models. i think that is what is lacking in black and the poor cultures.

 

[EagleKeeper]

We were not talking about modern day America, we were talking about blacks being barred access to education by whites during times of segregation. More specifically, we were discussing the point that the US Government used to endorse the idea that blacks were predisposed to be intellectually inferior to whites...

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

But anyway, I'm from Detroit. There are probably about 5 or 6 major CC and Universities around the area. However, many of the High Schoolers in Detroit either don't finish or they don't make it to college.

My mother pulled me out of Detroit schools when I was 8 years old because they were so bad. Some of these schools, the students learn nothing. She actually made me finish 8th grade in a Detroit Middle school because I go in trouble at my own school for being a knucklehead teenager. That 8th grade year was so tough for me because it was a complete 180 from the schools I had access to. For starters, the only teacher I learned anything from was my homeroom teacher. He taught Social Studies and English in the morning to us and then we went off to some other bullshit classes where we learned absolutely nothing. My classmates? Tyrannts, atleast the bulk of them. There were only a few kids in class that actually did the work. There were two girls that sat near me, one in front and one behind that hated my guts because I participated in class. The girl behind me, Shaina, was a bitch to me in practically every class we had. For no reason at all other than I didn't act up and I just did my work. When that year was finally over, I went to high school back in my neck of the woods and I never got in trouble again (well..until I was a senior, lol)

I turned on the news the other day to hear a report about a student who complained to the school board in Detroit that he did not have books for his classes and that some of his classes did not have permanent teachers. They (the news) went to the school and found many of the students being held in the gym for hours because there were no teachers. Either they were all in the gym, or they were leaving school early to go home. It was disgusting.

So no...going to HS doesnt give you a shot at college. This is not necessarily true for everyone.

Detroit's public schools have been on the outs for YEARS now. If you live in Detroit and you want your kid to get a quality education in High School with a guaranteed shot at College..there are 3 high schools in Detroit you can choose from. Renaissance, Cass Tech, and King High School. The only 3 nationally recognized High Schools in Detroit with a high turnover rate for college admission. You have to be really smart ("Smart" as in good enough grades from middle school) to get into these schools or atleast have a good recommendation put in for you. There are maybe a few hundred spots a year...there are over a thousand HS kids in Detroit.

Isnt that sad? I'm just glad I'd moved out to the suburbs and had access to FAR better schools before I was in Middle School.

For me, College Admission was guaranteed, I had great test scores, competitive transcripts, and teachers who believed in me and wrote recommendations. But, I also didn't get to school in Detroit...so I had a fighting chance.

The average kid in Detroit doesn't get that.



Those are easy to meet standards!

Also, I never said the South was still Segregated. We were talking about history, remember? Before you tell me to get a clue, how about you go back and examine the subject matter of the earlier posts. It was pretty clear I was talking about America during WWII. Hence the conversation about the Tuskegee Airmen.

People are stating that we still need discrimination in the country because of the past.

The past had come AND gone. Plenty of blacks have succeeded from all areas of this country and from the ghetto to the suburbs.

The opportunities are there to be reached for.

If a person chooses to not reach for them, it is their fault, not someone else's.

60 years ago, it was a different story.
40 years ago, people realized that they could reach.
20 years ago, they realized that they did not have to listen to the naysayers.

Now the naysayers are panicking because they are being proved wrong, that blacks can advance on their own, the opportunity exists.

Naysayers need affirmative action programs to justify their existence, to perpetuate the myth that blacks are second class. They survive on the concept of racism and the fact that people should be unequal.

They ignore one of the underpinnings of the Declaration. All men are created equal.

The naysayers apparently believe that blacks are not equal. They are second class.


With respect to Detroit.
It is a city run by blacks choosing to ensure that blacks do not have all the resourced needed.

AA is not going to fix that. It is the community groups and patents that need to decide do they want their children held back.

If the school is not going to be held accountable, the parent(s) need to get the learning into the student. Get equivalent text books on their own and have the student learn that way. Get the student into a GED program.

Parental responsibility to advance the child does not depend on race. It depends on the patent and/or child. If they choose to fail because it is easier, they will. No drive. A fault of their own attitude. Their responsibility for the failure.

 

[SheHateMe]

People are stating that we still need discrimination in the country because of the past.

The past had come AND gone. Plenty of blacks have succeeded from all areas of this country and from the ghetto to the suburbs.

The opportunities are there to be reached for.

If a person chooses to not reach for them, it is their fault, not someone else's.

60 years ago, it was a different story.
40 years ago, people realized that they could reach.
20 years ago, they realized that they did not have to listen to the naysayers.

Now the naysayers are panicking because they are being proved wrong, that blacks can advance on their own, the opportunity exists.

Naysayers need affirmative action programs to justify their existence, to perpetuate the myth that blacks are second class. They survive on the concept of racism and the fact that people should be unequal.

They ignore one of the underpinnings of the Declaration. All men are created equal.

The naysayers apparently believe that blacks are not equal. They are second class.


With respect to Detroit.
It is a city run by blacks choosing to ensure that blacks do not have all the resourced needed.

AA is not going to fix that. It is the community groups and patents that need to decide do they want their children held back.

If the school is not going to be held accountable, the parent(s) need to get the learning into the student. Get equivalent text books on their own and have the student learn that way. Get the student into a GED program.

Parental responsibility to advance the child does not depend on race. It depends on the patent and/or child. If they choose to fail because it is easier, they will. No drive. A fault of their own attitude. Their responsibility for the failure.

My statements weren't an argument for Affirmative Action, thanks.

I was arguing the point that going to High School doesn't give you a shot at College...not for everybody. Detroit is a prime example, yes, its run by Blacks who ran the city into the ground..but its also full of kids who don't have good schools to go to, MOST of the High Schools in Detroit are "Dropout Factories". These kids aren't getting the resources to excel in school. The other shame is that in order to get a fair chance at learning and making it to college, you only have 3 high schools in Detroit to choose from. Obviously, everyone can't go there. The city pours most of their money into these 3 schools, over the past 6 years..all 3 of these schools have gotten newer, bigger facilities, better teachers, etc. Meanwhile, tumbleweed rolls through the hallways of other schools.

I never said Affirmative Action was the answer to anything. Actually, I never said it was a good thing either. I am just highlighting the fact that this whole "Everyone has a fair chance during secondary education" is BS.

If a person chooses to not reach for them, it is their fault, not someone else's.

How does a HS aged child reach for an opportunity that is not there for them? They go to a shitty school in a poor area. Its not like they can pack up and move out to the burbs to find a better school.

 

[EagleKeeper]

One can home school themselves if there is a shitty school.

Reach for the knowledge that exists even if it is not handed to them.

Instead of reaching for excuses.