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Those lazy poor people

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bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
I'm interested. Do you have links? What do you do when grid goes down? As in no electricity?
I can make this, http://www.stealthhydroponics.com/product.php?xProd=16 , cheaper and bigger to hold more plants. You can also just jimmy rig lights easy as all hell with power strips, a bunch of these http://www.electronicplus.com/images/products/738W-BOX.jpg and some CFLs. Put it in a closet lined in aluminum foil or mylar along the walls and setup a fan to move air g2g. You could also set it up inside of like a dresser or some other thing you want to build into a grow box. It's not that hard Zebo, I've done similar(but I spent more money on lighting etc) for my grow.

oh i left out the cost of like nutrients, but even if it costs like 35 for veg and 35 for bloom nutes they will last you quite awhile. also need something to check the PH, but PH test kits can be had on the cheap.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
345
126
I feel like most people who think they are poor because they cannot have everything Given to them because they are not willing to work for what they want. I have watched on my Job people loosing their jobs because they didn't want to do a different job than what they were hired for, I'm not talking janitor work when you are an engineer I'm talking about running this machine instead of that machine because the need arises. I'm talking about lying on their paperwork so they could sit outside and smoke then getting mad they get fired for stealing from the company! In this economy people should be glad they are working not complaining about not being able to buy the new xbox 360 or Lcd tv because they are too lazy to work for it. The people living off someone else they are not homeless they are enabled to be lazy. there is a difference home less is just that living on the streets and not being able to break the cycle because of circumstances, these people need help not the ones who would rather live in filth and draw a goverment check for being lazy.

I have seen people stuck homeless they are willing to get out of it and do better, not someone laying up in goverment assisted housing and not working because their rent would increase. Don't get me wrong not everyone in Goverment housing is lazy some people need the help, Once even I did I stayed in the goverments housing for 3 months and it was all I needed to get everthing rolling again. I do not get any help now and haven't for 12 years but if everyone who is able would do the same the burden would be much less on the whole country.

My 2 cents worth I am done now.
Given your sincere port, here's a point:

Psychology has shown that the effects of *relative* poverty are huge - people who are poor in a poor society have far fewer of these problems than people who are much better off but poorer compared to others in the society they're in, such as the underclass in a country like England or the US.

If you google it, there should be plenty of reports - the the Guardian's story.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
460
126
I, and I think most Americans, don't necessarily have a problem helping out those in need who are doing everything they can to help themselves. It is the welfare moms and the lazy who leach the system that I cannot stand and would rather starve to death than give a dollar to. I was a landlord for several years, and believe me, I've had my fare share of deadbeats who made more on welfare than working.

What I said about making your own choices holds true... but I would be much more inclined to help someone who (at the time) made good choices and is now down on his/her luck. I had a renter who had an asshole husband. She was married for years and had two kids by him before she was able to leave. I'm sure when she married him he wasn't an asshole and even though her decision to marry him, in hindsight, was bad, at the time it wasn't.

So she divorces him and moves on with her two kids and he is nowhere around. She lives modestly, drives a very old car, shops bargains, is going to school and has a full-time job. She has no free time and is eeking by, trying to get out of the rut. She neve asks for anything, isn't getting pregnant again, and doesn't buy Doritos and Pepsi. She has one TV, a 19", that looks like she found at the dump in the reuse area.

Contrast this with another renter I had. She worked at a gas station, had 4 kids by 3 different fathers. She spends all of her money on her hair, nails and alcohol. Her house (government assisted) is completely trashed all the time and she doesn't give a fuck. She has random men coming over all hours of the day. She cannot come up with her $100 portion of $1200 rent ($1100 subsidized by taxpayers) though she can get a hair color and celebrate by going to the bars (I ran into her one night at a bar when she owed me money. Uncomfortable.)

I would happily help those who help themselves and just need a hand for a short while. These are people who would otherwise be productive citizens had the factory not closed, or the economy not tanked, or their husband didn't die...people who tried very hard to make good choices that didn't lead them to where they wanted to be.

I think welfare shouldn't be given to the bottom rungs of our society and instead given to those just above them who are trying, who are bettering themselves, who did try to do the right thing. The corollary to this is that those who refuse to work, who pop out kids left and right, who waste money on drugs and alcohol, who won't go to school or work two jobs will get nothing. Nothing at all. They ALL have the ability to do something. I see these "homeless" people with signs, and they stand in front of McDonalds that has a banner saying "Now Hiring."

Help those who deserve it and who can take the help and do something with it.
Of course her husband was an asshole when she married him, men don't usually fundamentally change. Women marry men expecting that we will change and we don't; men marry women expecting that they won't change and they do. (Except of course my wife, who has only gotten better.)

Your posts are well written and spot-on, thanks. That's the reason I could never rent to Section 8, it would just piss me off to no end to watch someone totally trash my property while using my tax money to do so. That said, many of the Section 8 renters I see actually are trying - they are in school or working. (Usually for Sociology or Women's or Minority Studies degrees which are mostly useless, but at least they are doing SOMETHING.) I would like to reward those who are working harder and punish those who are hardly working or completely sponging, I just don't see it happening. And I like Acanthus' ideas for welfare reform, but again, I don't see it happening. The Republicans are too vulnerable to cries of racism and the Democrats value the underclass too much.
 

bullbert

Senior member
May 24, 2004
718
0
0
So why not push for REASONABLE reform, rather than abolishing the system outright?

I'm relatively liberal but here is the start for me.

Keep: Food Stamps for children and qualifying families.
Keep: Section-8 and cash aid for the legally disabled only.
Keep: Worker retraining programs.

-Unemployment has a labor component.
-Regressive amounts that align with income and expenses (75% of last 3 months of work).
-If expenses exceed income, it is up to the person to sell off assets and lower expenses or declare bankruptcy.
-If you cross the 6 month mark, you must attend a class on finding and retaining employment.
-If you cross the 8 month mark, your unemployment is reduced by 20% week to week until it reaches $200, where it is stopped.
-extensive auditing agency created to look for fraud in the system.
Why you ask? Because REASONABLE reform at the National level is a fantasy. It is never going to happen. Push all you want, but the result will only be more spending and more abuses.

The only possible solution is to abolish the current Nationalized system, and reboot welfare at a local level. But of course that is never going to happen, either.
 

MooseNSquirrel

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2009
2,581
313
126
What I learned from this thread:


1. Anecdotal evidence trumps anything else

2. TV specials trump scientific studies

3. Poor people are fat and lazy and deserve what they get

4. Rich people work hard (and presumably are skinny)and deserve what they get

5. Getting rid of welfare would solve everything(tm)

6. Workfare would be an alternative to 5. because somehow it would save us money because no one would be needed to run such a program and one would assume that those private companies who did the work now being done by the welfarians (ha) could now offer their services to watch the kids of the single mothers now working or something like that

Did I miss something?

Oh and in other news this.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
345
126
Oh and in other news this.
The problem with that nice chart is that it doesn't break out the top 0.01%, whose share of income has risen far more than any other group, even the top 1%.

But even the top 1% going fro 7.5% to 17% of income is very useful information, that should be but is not an alarm for the public.
 

jackofalltrades

Senior member
Feb 25, 2007
399
0
76
What I learned from this thread:


1. Anecdotal evidence trumps anything else

2. TV specials trump scientific studies

3. Poor people are fat and lazy and deserve what they get (not always, some poor people are not lazy or fat, but more are than are not)

4. Rich people work hard (and presumably are skinny)and deserve what they get (not really)

5. Getting rid of welfare would solve everything(tm)

6. Workfare would be an alternative to 5. because somehow it would save us money because no one would be needed to run such a program and one would assume that those private companies who did the work now being done by the welfarians (ha) could now offer their services to watch the kids of the single mothers now working or something like that

Did I miss something?


Oh and in other news this.
7. you missed the middle group where most of us are that are not lazy not rich. I won't get into the fat or skinny part though.
 

NoWhereM

Senior member
Oct 15, 2007
543
0
0
What I learned from this thread:


1. Anecdotal evidence trumps anything else

2. TV specials trump scientific studies

3. Poor people are fat and lazy and deserve what they get

4. Rich people work hard (and presumably are skinny)and deserve what they get

5. Getting rid of welfare would solve everything(tm)

6. Workfare would be an alternative to 5. because somehow it would save us money because no one would be needed to run such a program and one would assume that those private companies who did the work now being done by the welfarians (ha) could now offer their services to watch the kids of the single mothers now working or something like that

Did I miss something?

Oh and in other news this.
You forgot to include People should not be given disability income unless someone without a medical degree can verify their disability.
 

coreyb

Platinum Member
Aug 12, 2007
2,437
0
0
these people are retards. the woman living in the trailer has two kids and her bf is jobless...no wonder you are fucking poor!
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,557
428
126
My mom once told me to not complain to much about welfare cheats because if it wasn't for a welfare system they could cheat on they might end up living with us. When I thought about of the members of my family, this was a chilling revelation.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
My mom once told me to not complain to much about welfare cheats because if it wasn't for a welfare system they could cheat on they might end up living with us. When I thought about of the members of my family, this was a chilling revelation.
Also, when you take away the "floor" on living conditions, people get desperate and crime inevitably rises.

Note how this recession didn't see the usual crime wave of past recessions? Stop food stamps and see what happens.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
16
81
My mom once told me to not complain to much about welfare cheats because if it wasn't for a welfare system they could cheat on they might end up living with us. When I thought about of the members of my family, this was a chilling revelation.
I think most of us agree about you and that.
 

NoWhereM

Senior member
Oct 15, 2007
543
0
0
Also, when you take away the "floor" on living conditions, people get desperate and crime inevitably rises.

Note how this recession didn't see the usual crime wave of past recessions? Stop food stamps and see what happens.
It really is funny how many people don't understand this. They talk about the welfare state as if it's something new when aid from the state is detailed throughout history. An example I always think of is the Romans giving bread to the poor to keep them from rioting.

Welfare isn't a gift, it isn't charity, it's a social contract. You don't starve the poor and they won't murder you in your bed. The hard part is determining the lowest amount of aid to the poor possible before it begins to cost more than it saves.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
It really is funny how many people don't understand this. They talk about the welfare state as if it's something new when aid from the state is detailed throughout history. An example I always think of is the Romans giving bread to the poor to keep them from rioting.

Welfare isn't a gift, it isn't charity, it's a social contract. You don't starve the poor and they won't murder you in your bed. The hard part is determining the lowest amount of aid to the poor possible before it begins to cost more than it saves.
What federal welfare programs existed prior to the 1960's?
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
16
81
It really is funny how many people don't understand this. They talk about the welfare state as if it's something new when aid from the state is detailed throughout history. An example I always think of is the Romans giving bread to the poor to keep them from rioting.

Welfare isn't a gift, it isn't charity, it's a social contract. You don't starve the poor and they won't murder you in your bed. The hard part is determining the lowest amount of aid to the poor possible before it begins to cost more than it saves.
Here's the deal...the Romans did that to protect the government leaders. Now we have to do it to protect everyone?

I don't believe in fear systems. If the poor riot, send in the national guard and wipe out a city block or two. If they cannot govern themselves then accept our version of it.

Problem is people get all emotional about that. "Ahh little johnny only had to kill because he was hungry"...fuck that, let's put little johnny to sleep.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,531
3
0
Here's the deal...the Romans did that to protect the government leaders. Now we have to do it to protect everyone?

I don't believe in fear systems. If the poor riot, send in the national guard and wipe out a city block or two. If they cannot govern themselves then accept our version of it.
300 people riot and your solution is to wipe out 3000?:rolleyes:
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
16
81
300 people riot and your solution is to wipe out 3000?:rolleyes:
that's the way you have to do it. The 300 people riotting had friends and family knowing they were and do not act to stop it. They are just as guilty and chances are as soon as you killed those 300, those other ghetto-dwellers would be riotting in response to the inhumanity of killing somone for looting and assaulting others.

If the poor governed themselves (like reporting drug dealers in their buildings, stolen property fencers, etc) they'd have more of the pie to share.

Instead they learn to profit from these same people and out to fuck the system that's trying to help them.

Down in Miami it's the worst of the whole country. Something like 50% of all medicare claims run through there. America is getting raped each day by the very people each one of us is taking a paycheck hit to help.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,531
3
0
that's the way you have to do it. The 300 people riotting had friends and family knowing they were and do not act to stop it. They are just as guilty and chances are as soon as you killed those 300, those other ghetto-dwellers would be riotting in response to the inhumanity of killing somone for looting and assaulting others.
And it turn more would be rioting after you murdered those 3000,what's next murdering 30,000 because they could potentially riot?

What amazes me is that you can't understand why so many people think you are an idiot when you post such nonsense
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
16
81
And it turn more would be rioting after you murdered those 3000,what's next murdering 30,000 because they could potentially riot?

What amazes me is that you can't understand why so many people think you are an idiot when you post such nonsense
Like most people they don't have the balls to get things done and/or fear the solution will affect them somehow.

Most people go through life scared of it's shadow. It shows in how they vote, react and end up going after the one that is usually right because it's the safer thing to do.

It wouldn't be 'murder' btw. There would be a definite reason for it and one should expect that to come for not reporting crimes. The rioting thing is the poor's new answer to anything.

I do believe in any riot we should have the right to open fire on all of them once looting and burning starts.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,531
3
0
Like most people they don't have the balls to get things done and/or fear the solution will affect them somehow.

Most people go through life scared of it's shadow. It shows in how they vote, react and end up going after the one that is usually right because it's the safer thing to do.

It wouldn't be 'murder' btw. There would be a definite reason for it and one should expect that to come for not reporting crimes. The rioting thing is the poor's new answer to anything.

I do believe in any riot we should have the right to open fire on all of them once looting and burning starts.
No it would be genocide. Using your logic you should be exterminated because you might perpetrate genocide if given the chance.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
16
81
No it would be genocide. Using your logic you should be exterminated because you might perpetrate genocide if given the chance.
Genocide is nothing like going after a building full of rioters and drug dealers. It's impossible the others inside the building did not know about them so they are just as gulity.

Saying let's blow up all buildings in a neighborhood would be more akin to that.

I believe all men are equal when it comes down to it. However, I also believe most men work hard to show they are subhuman and should be removed from our society.
 

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