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Those lazy poor people

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alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
16
81
I know it is anecdotal, but I've been seeing many IT jobs posted in my home market lately. I have a friend who worked help desk/desktop support at a school system, got fed up, and got a job offer within a few weeks of starting her search and has at least one, if not two, other job offer(s) in the works and those will probably drop next week.
There are tons of job offers out there. IT Director for $30k, CCNP for $10/hr, etc.

Employers are exploiting the economy.

I get headhunter calls weekly for what ends up being either too many skills that I don't have, a lateral move, or a fucking lowball with added commentary that I should take any job I can get now (IDIOT I AM WORKING!!!@!@).
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,390
3,519
126
Really? Constantly increasing my tax burden (and making sure I won't take a next step up the corporate rung or else take a MASSIVE tax hit?), forcing me to pay for health insurance (god forbid if I have enough money for a "Cadillac" plan - lets tax that a bit more), talking about a VAT, letting tax cuts that directly impact me expire, increasing the deficit at a rate never imagined (all that money is FREE! It comes from us printing it!!! I'll just create a situation where some president down the line HAS to raise taxes, then it's not my fault!) and making sure I won't get a car that I want without a luxury tax is not "penalizing"?

Social programs, failed policies, bailouts that don't do SHIT, more regulations on small businesses (recently repealed because they didn't want REP to get credit for it), REPEATED requests to tax the rich more, etc. You get PENALIZED if you make more. The mentality that they WANT is that people who made well for themselves are BAD and EVIL. Nevermind that they haven't ever had a job out here in the real world themselves so they have no idea how much work and time it takes to put yourself in a comfortable position.
Those who You Vote for have been Increasing Your Taxes. They just didn't Charge you for them.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
17,522
5,078
136
There are tons of job offers out there. IT Director for $30k, CCNP for $10/hr, etc.

Employers are exploiting the economy.

I get headhunter calls weekly for what ends up being either too many skills that I don't have, a lateral move, or a fucking lowball with added commentary that I should take any job I can get now (IDIOT I AM WORKING!!!@!@).
At one time I considered changing my career to become a network admin. Glad I didn't. At the time I was considering it, companies were throwing money at idiots. Now it's become yet another globally arbitradged comodity job. My job could never be outsorced.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
16
81
At one time I considered changing my career to become a network admin. Glad I didn't. At the time I was considering it, companies were throwing money at idiots. Now it's become yet another globally arbitradged comodity job. My job could never be outsorced.
not posting your job is fail.

I don't get Kappo's posts. Esp that he doesn't move when listing his hometown as Craplanta.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,564
610
126
There are tons of job offers out there. IT Director for $30k, CCNP for $10/hr, etc.

Employers are exploiting the economy.
They are, but in this case, these particular positions that my friend has interviewed for were between about $35K and $45K, for help desk/desktop support. Not bad at all. I have seen some Sharepoint dev positions going into the six figure range as well, which is encouraging to me once I get the experience.

I get headhunter calls weekly for what ends up being either too many skills that I don't have, a lateral move, or a fucking lowball with added commentary that I should take any job I can get now (IDIOT I AM WORKING!!!@!@).
I'm lucky that I don't get calls. I do get annoying emails from some company that always sends me these 3 to 6 month contracts half-way across the country. I never respond.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,564
610
126
At one time I considered changing my career to become a network admin. Glad I didn't. At the time I was considering it, companies were throwing money at idiots. Now it's become yet another globally arbitradged comodity job. My job could never be outsorced.
What is your job? Please don't tell me you're one of those "I can't be replaced!" people. Those guys live in their little bubble and then when they get outsourced or replaced, they are in total shock. My motto is "Only the paranoid survive," so I am always concerned and prepared.
 
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IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,564
610
126
At one time I considered changing my career to become a network admin. Glad I didn't. At the time I was considering it, companies were throwing money at idiots. Now it's become yet another globally arbitradged comodity job. My job could never be outsorced.
I've been in various IT jobs for about 14 years now and even though I've never been laid off, it gets old and I'd like to eventually move to something else. I probably belong in IT management somewhere but those are tough jobs to find.
 

Kappo

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2000
2,381
0
0
Those who You Vote for have been Increasing Your Taxes. They just didn't Charge you for them.
Why do you capitalize seemingly random letters. It makes it quite difficult to make someone believe you have even a slight clue about anything when you can't figure out the whole shift key thing. Not that I'm a grammar nazi or anything, but keep in mind your typing is the Internet version of oral hygiene.

I would be curious about your statement if I thought you were smart enough to grasp huge concepts like "the shift key and when to press it". Since you are unable to master that great feat, your statement really doesn't mean much.
 

Kappo

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2000
2,381
0
0
I've been in various IT jobs for about 14 years now and even though I've never been laid off, it gets old and I'd like to eventually move to something else. I probably belong in IT management somewhere but those are tough jobs to find.
I almost took a Dir of IT Security in Indianapolis. I love that city except for the white stuff on the ground everywhere. Scary. The river in the city would have to be caged off if it were like that here simply because some scumbag would throw their kid in it so they could sue.

One thing I have hesitated on taking some jobs are because being in IT management is just basically a PM. I like planning, prepping and implementing things and being the guy with the technical skill. The jobs aren't hard to find, TBH. The problem is that you are SOOO much more replaceable than someone with current and relevant skillsets.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,390
3,519
126
Why do you capitalize seemingly random letters. It makes it quite difficult to make someone believe you have even a slight clue about anything when you can't figure out the whole shift key thing. Not that I'm a grammar nazi or anything, but keep in mind your typing is the Internet version of oral hygiene.

I would be curious about your statement if I thought you were smart enough to grasp huge concepts like "the shift key and when to press it". Since you are unable to master that great feat, your statement really doesn't mean much.
The sandorski is mysterious. Your cop out is Fail.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,564
610
126
I almost took a Dir of IT Security in Indianapolis. I love that city except for the white stuff on the ground everywhere.
Are you talking about pigeon crap? It is a big problem here and they are working on a solution. Indy is a great city though, you're right. Not that I am biased. :) And really, that problem only seems to be bad around Monument Circle and a couple blocks on either side. They finally installed these high pitched sirens/whistles to run the birds off.

Scary. The river in the city would have to be caged off if it were like that here simply because some scumbag would throw their kid in it so they could sue.
My office building overlooks the river and is on the canal. It is a really cool place to work.

One thing I have hesitated on taking some jobs are because being in IT management is just basically a PM. I like planning, prepping and implementing things and being the guy with the technical skill. The jobs aren't hard to find, TBH. The problem is that you are SOOO much more replaceable than someone with current and relevant skillsets.
In that respect, you're correct. I guess that sometimes, I get tired of the IT skills treadmill. On one hand, it is cool to learn new technologies and play with it but on the other, sometimes you'd just like to have a job where you don't always have to train, etc.

I was a technical manager at one point for Compaq, and I was able to manage people, set strategy, and keep my hands in technology. That was the best of both worlds, I think.
 
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bullbert

Senior member
May 24, 2004
718
0
0
There are tons of job offers out there. IT Director for $30k, CCNP for $10/hr, etc.

Employers are exploiting the economy.

I get headhunter calls weekly for what ends up being either too many skills that I don't have, a lateral move, or a fucking lowball with added commentary that I should take any job I can get now (IDIOT I AM WORKING!!!@!@).
Legally, they need to create a paper trail of job offers to citizens before applying for an H1B to import an indentured servant at a salary of $20k/year for 80+hrs/week.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
16
81
I'm lucky that I don't get calls. I do get annoying emails from some company that always sends me these 3 to 6 month contracts half-way across the country. I never respond.
Yeah those are even worse, esp when the headhunter throws in crap about 'this economy' and a job is a job.

I could see if I wasn't working, but it sucks.

The biggest thing too is many of these contract jobs have no salary listed, they want you to come in and then negotiate.

This is one of the biggest things I hate about today's market. 20 years ago almost any job posted a range of salary/hourly rate you'd look at getting. All you had to do was get the job.

Today getting the job means they leverage what the new job would pay over your current salary hoping to place you at a much lower expectation. If you are paid more already you are usually overlooked...which is equally crap as many don't always choose a new job to make the same or more money in. Some want to step down a bit.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,564
610
126
Yeah those are even worse, esp when the headhunter throws in crap about 'this economy' and a job is a job.

I could see if I wasn't working, but it sucks.
If I ever had a headhunter say "a job is a job in this economy" to me when I already have one, I'd rip him a new one.

This is one of the biggest things I hate about today's market. 20 years ago almost any job posted a range of salary/hourly rate you'd look at getting. All you had to do was get the job.
Not only do they not typically have a range posted, now many are asking for salary histories. A salary history is really none of their god damn history and I won't send one in. One time, I didn't send one in and someone asked me for it. I told them if they'd like to share their salary history with me, I'd share mine with them. They didn't take me up on the offer.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
16
81
well there is a lot of things one would share to get a job that is not reciprocal. Unfortunately many places here will shitcan resumes that do not list the requirements from the start.

This started with 'references on request' around here when the job asked for them at application. The HR people simply shred them.
 

Kappo

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2000
2,381
0
0
well there is a lot of things one would share to get a job that is not reciprocal. Unfortunately many places here will shitcan resumes that do not list the requirements from the start.

This started with 'references on request' around here when the job asked for them at application. The HR people simply shred them.
See, I would rather just stay at my current job than goto a company that practices like that. I consider the interview process to go both ways and I always have a nice long list of questions to ask them to make sure that we are a good fit.
 

Kappo

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2000
2,381
0
0
well the problem is many don't have a current job.
Then you do what I did when I had less relevant skills : suck it up and play the game until you have more leverage. Most companies have that leverage at the moment. You can't be too proud to flip burgers in order to maintain your household and still expect to come out on top during rough times.

The more I looked around and stayed aware, the more I knew exactly what to get familiar with and what directions things were trending. It's not rocket science, it's called being up on your industry.

People who simply want to clock in and clock out can't possibly think they are worth more than someone who shows a bit more dedication... don't like what they are offering? Don't do business with them.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,390
3,519
126
Then you do what I did when I had less relevant skills : suck it up and play the game until you have more leverage. Most companies have that leverage at the moment. You can't be too proud to flip burgers in order to maintain your household and still expect to come out on top during rough times.

The more I looked around and stayed aware, the more I knew exactly what to get familiar with and what directions things were trending. It's not rocket science, it's called being up on your industry.

People who simply want to clock in and clock out can't possibly think they are worth more than someone who shows a bit more dedication... don't like what they are offering? Don't do business with them.
2 problems with that:

1) Right now Jobs Available<<<<<<<<<Workers looking for Jobs

2) Jobs are a Pyramid
. CEOs/other Top Tier Earners
..Upper Management
...Middle Management
....Lower Management
.....High Paying Labour
......Mid Paying Labour
........Low Paying Labour
.........Minimum Wage
(Note: the dots don't represent X# of Jobs, otherwise the Pyramid would be wonky)
Some People can Work their way Up, not All.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
17,522
5,078
136
ahh preschool teacher.

Kappo...flipping burgers is romantic and all but many couldn't afford to survive at even 2-3x what that would pay.
Do you know how to troubleshoot a VME buss ,Scramnet double redundant fiber optic networks? Difibrilators, patient monitors, RF surgical cutters, Tag IETMs in legacy SGML. Read and write VB script macros. Go away.
 
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Kappo

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2000
2,381
0
0
2 problems with that:

1) Right now Jobs Available<<<<<<<<<Workers looking for Jobs

2) Jobs are a Pyramid
. CEOs/other Top Tier Earners
..Upper Management
...Middle Management
....Lower Management
.....High Paying Labour
......Mid Paying Labour
........Low Paying Labour
.........Minimum Wage
(Note: the dots don't represent X# of Jobs, otherwise the Pyramid would be wonky)
Some People can Work their way Up, not All.
Oh, I'm aware of the structure and how the job market is currently. I'm making my basis on the fact that not everyone can or will go to the extent that it takes to increase their marketability. If everyone did that, then it would throw everything off and upset the natural balance of me saving for retirement and that cool new android phone that will inevitably cross my path :)

The point I'm trying to make is that there is room for improvement on a personal level that will afford you the ability to be choosy. Many (most, IMO) people do not do that and then complain that there are no jobs. Companies exploit this and try to get more for their money, which is good business.

These companies realize that the human assets will only be there until they find something better, and they probably aren't exactly rolling in cash but still need to get the job done. These companies also realize that the employees won't be happy with what they are taking.

Where I start to be pissed is that if I take the next step up in my career, I get penalized. I happen to really like what I do, so going the extra mile (which looks like I'm loving the company to my employer) is more of a selfish desire to figure something out/accomplish something on a retarded deadline. So if I work harder and take on more responsibility, then I should get less of a % of my money and give it to a bunch of folks who have zero idea what a good deal is (our government).
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
16
81
Do you know how to troubleshoot a VME buss ,Scramnet double redundant fiber optic networks? Difibrilators, patient monitors, RF surgical cutters, Tag IETMs in legacy SGML. Read and write VB script macros. Go away.
lolz....SGML and VBScript. Don't know why it's so hard to say your job title. Sounds more 'helpdesk' to me though.

Anyway...Kappo, many people that clock in and out only still feel they are even better than their boss' boss or higher. Many of them look at college as something 'anyone' could do, but they feel they are the only one's with common sense and 'ideas'.

In the end most people's idea of their own value is far different than what employers feel of them.
 

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