This place used to be quite different, no?

[Commodus]

I think that's part of it.

I do think that some have started to see how toxic the modern conservative ideology really is. Its basically casting off any pretense of actually caring about people, and has become openly antagonistic towards the People. I think a lot of that though is just the mounting evidence. Some of it is historic (and actually isn't a Republican issue, the US has many failures that transcends party politics, the thing is, one group is far more willing to admit and want to work towards solutions of those issues, the other wants to act like they somehow simultaneously didn't even happen, but weren't problems at all but would be great to implement even more strictly). But the past couple of years has made it impossible to ignore how openly hateful conservativism has become. Its kinda like with topics like sexual harassment and assault, where people had blinders on, but then it was like suddenly people are going "whoa, holy shit, this is a serious problem". I don't think its a coincidence that people seeing how toxic the rhetoric that conservatives are spewing is happening at the same time as people wake up to some other serious problems. People have been knocked out of their stupor, and its sobering.

Quite a few of the "missing conservatives" on here though are just chickenshits that got tired of people calling them out for their bullshit and so have been out seeking "safe spaces" where people would just parrot their, often outright wrong basic facts (let alone when discussing topics with lots of depth, like Middle East relations) instead of, you know, reading even the articles they themselves were using to support their idiocy and going "you know the article actually doesn't even support your opinion?" type of stuff. Like rudeguy (I recall him going in OT and losing his mind over Obama taking selfies with some other world leaders at a celebration event after Mandela's funeral, because he couldn't accept that it was for celebrating Mandela, and not a somber event with Obama being so disrespectful). And that's before you get to the morons that just push completely nutter-butter conspiracy garbage where there's been a pushback against that.

I can see some evidence for that last part. Unless he got banned, I think SlowSpyder got tired of virtually everyone outside of the hardcore conservatives pushing back against his dubious claims... of course, it doesn't help that some of his wet dream fantasies about Trump were quickly shot down (how's that stock market doing?).

Part of why you saw some conservatives go over the top was that overriding urge to belong, I'd say. Think about it: if you've spent your life supporting Republicans, and you haven't noticed their slide farther and farther to the right, rejecting Trump would be akin to cutting off your own arm. You have no frame of reference for what it's like to be without that support network of like-minded individuals and media outlets. It's easier for some hardcore right-wingers to cling to the 'familiar' of Trump, even though that means supporting corruption and hate, than to rethink where they stand.

(To be clear: there are people here who are still decidedly conservative but still have enough of a head on their shoulders to criticize Trump at times.)

 

[Thunder 57]

I can see some evidence for that last part. Unless he got banned, I think SlowSpyder got tired of virtually everyone outside of the hardcore conservatives pushing back against his dubious claims... of course, it doesn't help that some of his wet dream fantasies about Trump were quickly shot down (how's that stock market doing?).

Part of why you saw some conservatives go over the top was that overriding urge to belong, I'd say. Think about it: if you've spent your life supporting Republicans, and you haven't noticed their slide farther and farther to the right, rejecting Trump would be akin to cutting off your own arm. You have no frame of reference for what it's like to be without that support network of like-minded individuals and media outlets. It's easier for some hardcore right-wingers to cling to the 'familiar' of Trump, even though that means supporting corruption and hate, than to rethink where they stand.

(To be clear: there are people here who are still decidedly conservative but still have enough of a head on their shoulders to criticize Trump at times.)

Would you agree that the left has slid further to the left as well?

 

[Jhhnn]

If you think that's what Libertarians want the biggest toddler is this thread is you. And given some of the participants, that's not something to be proud of.

And grow up zippy, "I don't wanna" is already a way government operates. A whole shitload of laws are passed on the principle of "I don't wanna do this, so other people should not have the right" and "I do wanna do this, so it should be mandatory." In that regard, governments run a whole hell of a lot like churches and home owners associations.

Libertopians are semi-delusional at best. Even as multinational Capitalism & Oligarchy reach for higher & higher levels of organization & control they say we should dismantle the only thing standing between us & their tender mercies, the Government of the People. Don't need it, because the Job Creators will provide.

 

[Younigue]

Serious conservatives are still there. They do have thoughtful ideas including on health care. They just don’t get featured in mainstream sources

I don't believe it. To be conservative is to be regressive. Thoughtful? You mean typically cruel.

 

[greatnoob]

OP, being 'conservative' is the PC way of saying that you're an inept retard who is devoid of any critical thinking skills. Why on earth would anybody want to call themselves a conservative?

In fact, most of the hardcore Trumptards here always preface their brain dead posts with "I didn't vote for Trump but.." or (similar to you) "I was once a liberal but..."

It's even more amusing knowing that these morally bankrupt fsckers are so ashamed of calling themselves Republicans/Conservatives that they are willing to lie to and about themselves to express their hilariously stupid conspiracy theories and 'views' (if you can even call regurgitated talking points from Alex Jones and Hannity that) in public without being laughed at.

 

[Younigue]

Would you agree that the left has slid further to the left as well?

What do you mean by that? Have they become more progressive? Yes. The younger generation is going to make the older generation conservatives butthole's pucker.

They'll make mistakes of course but many of the things people care about today won't be the same things they care about in the future.

I hope I live long enough to see the changes they make concerning things that just shouldn't be big political issues. I also believe/hope they will kick religion out of government once and for all. These thoughts make me happy!

 

[Younigue]

OP, being 'conservative' is the PC way of saying that you're an inept retard who is devoid of any critical thinking skills. Why on earth would anybody want to call themselves a conservative?

In fact, most of the hardcore Trumptards here always preface their brain dead posts with "I didn't vote for Trump but.." or (similar to you) "I was once a liberal but..."

It's even more amusing knowing that these morally bankrupt fsckers are so ashamed of calling themselves Republicans/Conservatives that they are willing to lie to and about themselves to express their hilariously stupid conspiracy theories and 'views' (if you can even call regurgitated talking points from Alex Jones and Hannity that) in public without being laughed at.

and then they are laughed at any way.

 

[Moonbeam]

When I first started posting here in the bulletin board days, as I recall them at least, this place was a bastion of right wing thinking. It was simply a matter of course that people were conservative and expected others to be also, seems to me. Guys like Russ were the norm. Guys like Perknose and Harvey were exceptions. I got the feeling that most of the posters here had never even run into a liberal and that I might as well have been speaking Greek. I felt like a leopard in a monkey colony, All I had to do was open my mouth to send the monkeys to the top branches screaming and throwing sticks.

 

[Jhhnn]

Would you agree that the left has slid further to the left as well?

Only in the sense that events call for it, at least if the welfare of the people is the greater goal. If we really want to MAGA, we need to realize that can't be achieved by shifting an even larger share of national income & the benefits thereof to the people at the top.

Is that not exactly what the GOP is doing?

 

[Commodus]

Would you agree that the left has slid further to the left as well?

Yes and no. Trump has certainly managed to polarize people, but at the same time... I don't think they're nearly as in dire a state as the right. Those further on the left don't have to twist themselves into supporting fundamentally evil things to stick to their preferred party, even if their approach is misguided.

 

[Thunder 57]

Libertopians are semi-delusional at best. Even as multinational Capitalism & Oligarchy reach for higher & higher levels of organization & control they say we should dismantle the only thing standing between us & their tender mercies, the Government of the People. Don't need it, because the Job Creators will provide.

What you are describing is anarchy. Libertarians believe in having a government. Those who claim to be libertarian and say otherwise are really anarchists.

OP, being 'conservative' is the PC way of saying that you're an inept retard who is devoid of any critical thinking skills. Why on earth would anybody want to call themselves a conservative?

In fact, most of the hardcore Trumptards here always preface their brain dead posts with "I didn't vote for Trump but.." or (similar to you) "I was once a liberal but..."

It's even more amusing knowing that these morally bankrupt fsckers are so ashamed of calling themselves Republicans/Conservatives that they are willing to lie to and about themselves to express their hilariously stupid conspiracy theories and 'views' (if you can even call regurgitated talking points from Alex Jones and Hannity that) in public without being laughed at.

You are making the OP's point very clear. Why bother posting here if you can't have reasonable discussion? Are you also saying that those who say they didn't vote for Trump are lying? All of them?? I sure as hell didn't vote for him. Not that I need to defends or prove that to you of course.

What do you mean by that? Have they become more progressive? Yes. The younger generation is going to make the older generation conservatives butthole's pucker.

They'll make mistakes of course but many of the things people care about today won't be the same things they care about in the future.

I hope I live long enough to see the changes they make concerning things that just shouldn't be big political issues. I also believe/hope they will kick religion out of government once and for all. These thoughts make me happy!

I'm surprised you haven't put me on your ignore list. That's another thing that I don't like. I don't use ignore because I want to hear others opinions, even if I think they are completely assbackwards. That's something I don't like about the (usually young) left, they don't want to hear different opinions. That's why they riot and destroy shit when someone like Ann Coulter tries to speak at UC Berkeley. Or Milo wherever he goes. They would rather shut it down than listen to dissent.

I listen to others because even if I think they are simpletons we may actually find common ground. A great recent example is Syria. I agree very much with the left on that nonsense.

Only in the sense that events call for it, at least if the welfare of the people is the greater goal. If we really want to MAGA, we need to realize that can't be achieved by shifting an even larger share of national income & the benefits thereof to the people at the top.

Is that not exactly what the GOP is doing?

Consolidation of wealth is definitely something that is worrisome. There are certainly issues that the left has gone too far on, as well.

 

[Jhhnn]

What you are describing is anarchy. Libertarians believe in having a government. Those who claim to be libertarian and say otherwise are really anarchists.

Not enough of a govt to be more than a pawn for the power elite.

 

[Jhhnn]

Consolidation of wealth is definitely something that is worrisome. There are certainly issues that the left has gone too far on, as well.

Really weak bothsiderism. Really weak.

 

[Thunder 57]

Really weak bothsiderism. Really weak.

Well WTF do you want me to say? Anybody should be able to realize both sides have their pros and cons. If you really think one side has all the answers, you are a pawn or an idiot.

Just another example of what those who dared to have different views got annoyed with and fled for the most part. Rather than formulate a reasonable response, you'll get a reply with one of the following:

Bothsides
Derp
Ben Ghazi
Freedumb
But her emails

etc. Certainly not a comprehensive list.

 

[ondma]

Well WTF do you want me to say? Anybody should be able to realize both sides have their pros and cons. If you really think one side has all the answers, you are a pawn or an idiot.

Just another example of what those who dared to have different views got annoyed with and fled for the most part. Rather than formulate a reasonable response, you'll get a reply with one of the following:

Bothsides
Derp
Ben Ghazi
Freedumb
But her emails

etc. Certainly not a comprehensive list.

Well you can add "look at what Bill did". I agree though, we have become so polarized that it is almost impossible to accomplish anything. I certainly dont support trump and his politics of hate, racism and namecalling. But what really frustrates me is that the democratic party has also lost touch with the needs of a major part of the country. They simply jump from one ultra-liberal cause to another, depending on what is popular at the moment, and have lost touch with the middle of the road voter. They also are very good at attacking (justiafibly) a lot of what trump does, but have yet to have a leader come forward that can offer reasonable alternatives.

 

[UberNeuman]

Well you can add "look at what Bill did". I agree though, we have become so polarized that it is almost impossible to accomplish anything. I certainly dont support trump and his politics of hate, racism and namecalling. But what really frustrates me is that the democratic party has also lost touch with the needs of a major part of the country. They simply jump from one ultra-liberal cause to another, depending on what is popular at the moment, and have lost touch with the middle of the road voter. They also are very good at attacking (justiafibly) a lot of what trump does, but have yet to have a leader come forward that can offer reasonable alternatives.

Okay, would you care to define what you'd consider to be "reasonable alternatives" and what is "ultra-liberal" causes?

 

[jackstar7]

Okay, would you care to define what you'd consider to be "reasonable alternatives" and what is "ultra-liberal" causes?

Dur. Teh gayz!

They's defective, brah!

 

[UberNeuman]

Dur. Teh gayz!

They's defective, brah!

tsk, tsk, dear sir. P&N has been accused of not listening to other viewpoints - and I have the highest faith that ondma will offer his/her ideas.

 

[Thunder 57]

Dur. Teh gayz!

They's defective, brah!

This adds nothing to the conversation. You are also assuming that the poster has a problem with gays. You are part of the reason this forum sucks.

 

[UberNeuman]

This adds nothing to the conversation. You are also assuming that the poster has a problem with gays. You are part of the reason this forum sucks.

Perhaps the poster can clarify. Instead of the usual "shit & run."

 

[Thunder 57]

tsk, tsk, dear sir. P&N has been accused of not listening to other viewpoints - and I have the highest faith that ondma will offer his/her ideas.

I know you are not sincere, but yes, I would like to see their response.

 

[Thunder 57]

Perhaps the poster can clarify. Instead of the usual "shit & run."

I look forward to that, but what you call "shit and run" I would think is typically because of replies like that that only make things worse. Why bother wasting time on those who won't give a shit about what you have to say?

 

[UberNeuman]

I look forward to that, but what you call "shit and run" I would think is typically because of replies like that that only make things worse. Why bother wasting time on those who won't give a shit about what you have to say?

Jesus read and Jesus wept.

​

 

[Younigue]

What you are describing is anarchy. Libertarians believe in having a government. Those who claim to be libertarian and say otherwise are really anarchists.



You are making the OP's point very clear. Why bother posting here if you can't have reasonable discussion? Are you also saying that those who say they didn't vote for Trump are lying? All of them?? I sure as hell didn't vote for him. Not that I need to defends or prove that to you of course.



I'm surprised you haven't put me on your ignore list. That's another thing that I don't like. I don't use ignore because I want to hear others opinions, even if I think they are completely assbackwards. That's something I don't like about the (usually young) left, they don't want to hear different opinions. That's why they riot and destroy shit when someone like Ann Coulter tries to speak at UC Berkeley. Or Milo wherever he goes. They would rather shut it down than listen to dissent.

I listen to others because even if I think they are simpletons we may actually find common ground. A great recent example is Syria. I agree very much with the left on that nonsense.



Consolidation of wealth is definitely something that is worrisome. There are certainly issues that the left has gone too far on, as well.

Oh I have several people on ignore but it's because I find them to be assholes and exhausting. Trust me (or don't) when I say that this Trump Era has brought to the surface an intolerance I didn't even know I possessed. Certainly I had an impatience for people I believed to be purposefully stupid but holy hell, where I grew up if not being very bright had been my standard of whether someone was worthy enough to speak with I would have been quite alone. It's the purposefulness of it that has been so startling and honestly heartbreaking for me. I don't hate all republican or even conservative thinking even stuff I disagree with but I have come to the conclusion that any support of Trump in any thing automatically generates in me a knowing that the person is dumb, cruel, indecent or all of the above. Truly the only Republicans I can get along with these days are ones I don't discuss politics with, family or they loath Trump as much as I do.

I'm well aware that I use this forum to vent my frustration but I also keep myself informed. There is rarely a thread in P&N that I haven't read at least a little about before seeing it here.

I also put people on ignore who just really really really don't get or like my sense of humor. Life experience and my ego tells me those people just ain't right in the head. I've yet to be proven wrong in that. I'm kind of like a dog like that with how you know not to trust a person if a well behaved dog shows a dislike for them. Don't find me funny? There's nothing right or good about that person.

Any way, step up your stupid if you'd prefer I put you on ignore. It matters in no way to me how stupid you may or may not believe me to be.

As for "common ground" there is no such thing with the ushering in of cruelty. There is no policy the Republicans are backing right now that even deserves consideration, forget common ground. Trump and buds are in the midst of raping the country. There is no room for common ground because they have made it so. They are a cruel and ugly Administration. They lead with hurt and finish with gorging on their spoils.

 

[Thunder 57]

Jesus read and Jesus wept.

​

"I have nothing to contribute".

Oh I have several people on ignore but it's because I find them to be assholes and exhausting. Trust me (or don't) when I say that this Trump Era has brought to the surface an intolerance I didn't even know I possessed. Certainly I had an impatience for people I believed to be purposefully stupid but holy hell, where I grew up if not being very bright had been my standard of whether someone was worthy enough to speak with I would have been quite alone. It's the purposefulness of it that has been so startling and honestly heartbreaking for me. I don't hate all republican or even conservative thinking even stuff I disagree with but I have come to the conclusion that any support of Trump in any thing automatically generates in me a knowing that the person is dumb, cruel, indecent or all of the above. Truly the only Republicans I can get along with these days are ones I don't discuss politics with, family or they loath Trump as much as I do.

It is refreshing to hear this. I try not to be an asshole but still get fucktarded responses (see above). I don't align myself with any party but I am conservative on some issues that people just don't like (guns ring a bell?). I'm also totally fine with liberal ideas like gay marriage. Just by trying to say that I am a reasonable person who has opinions that are both left and right gets me called a "bothsider(ism)". It annoys me, but I don't just shitpost respond to it because I realize that person just isn't worth responding to.

I'm well aware that I use this forum to vent my frustration but I also keep myself informed. There is rarely a thread in P&N that I haven't read at least a little about before seeing it here.

I also put people on ignore who just really really really don't get or like my sense of humor. Life experience and my ego tells me those people just ain't right in the head. I've yet to be proven wrong in that. I'm kind of like a dog like that with how you know not to trust a person if a well behaved dog shows a dislike for them. Don't find me funny? There's nothing right or good about that person.

Not sure how you can believe people to not be right in the head, but I get it. Oh, and humor is obviously a good thing. Nobody wants to be around a bunch of people with sticks up their asses.

Any way, step up your stupid if you'd prefer I put you on ignore. It matters in no way to me how stupid you may or may not believe me to be.

Are you saying you find me stupid? We may not agree on gun laws but I don't find you stupid. We may disagree on that, but I'm sure we agree on plenty of other things. I'm not sure if I can say that though without some bozo saying "bothsides", though.

As for "common ground" there is no such thing with the ushering in of cruelty. There is no policy the Republicans are backing right now that even deserves consideration, forget common ground. Trump and buds are in the midst of raping the country. There is no room for common ground because they have made it so. They are a cruel and ugly Administration. They lead with hurt and finish with gorging on their spoils.

I don't think there has been much common ground since probably the early 2000's. Look at the 80's. Reagan agreed to amnesty. The 90's? Welfare reform. There used to be compromise. Now everything is a pissing match.