This place used to be quite different, no?

[Victorian Gray]

He's no sock puppet, he's still the same old idiot spewing one/two sentence, substance free comments.

I firmly believe that he's nothing but a sock just like a number of other 'peek a boo' participants here.

 

[dank69]

So democrats pick the candidate that was light years ahead of Sanders in being maligned and slandered by the right instead of somebody they only had to work over. Pardon me but that is such a dumb argument to make that it looks just like conservative rationalizing. Let’s run this vacuum bag that’s full dirt that’s been picked up over decades instead of this near pristine one because it will fill up in a minute. Think, there is smearing and then there’s the time it takes for achieve effectiveness.

The time it takes for smearing to be effective is roughly 1 week.

 

[dank69]

Except they don't take care good care of everyone.

Well shit. Make up your mind should I vote Democrat or Republican?

 

[Incorruptible]

Well shit. Make up your mind should I vote Democrat or Republican?

Neither!

 

[Amused]

It sure looks the same to me. We have the same "liberals" posting and we still have our influx of new and old right wing posters. We still have all those that hate progressives and right wingers alike and their high horse sitting 'both siders'.

The only thing that's changed is the quality of the discussion and that's barely changed, people are still denying facts and still spouting substance free talking points. Sure there seems to be more low quality discussions but I think that's due to the overall low quality policies and positions our elected officials have taken.

I disagree. Verifiable fact used to mean something here. Sure we always had a couple fringe idiots but most people would at least accept valid, factual evidence and conform their argument to fit them, rather than try to deny the facts to fit their argument.

But that was the old days here. The 2000s. The days when off topic was so hot you could make a post, refresh your screen and the entire OT page be all new posts.

 

[ivwshane]

So democrats pick the candidate that was light years ahead of Sanders in being maligned and slandered by the right instead of somebody they only had to work over. Pardon me but that is such a dumb argument to make that it looks just like conservative rationalizing. Let’s run this vacuum bag that’s full dirt that’s been picked up over decades instead of this near pristine one because it will fill up in a minute. Think, there is smearing and then there’s the time it takes for achieve effectiveness.

I think Democrats ignored the bullshit and picked the most qualified candidate. How stupid of them. /eye roll

You've said it yourself, the "left" thinks in terms of logic and facts, the "right" thinks in terms of emotions, with those in the middle not doing much thinking at all (ok I added that last part).

Its ok we get it, you were drawn to the new shiny object. Just don't get mad that people saw the new shiny object for what it was, same as the old shit just with a "new and improved" sticker on it.

 

[dank69]

Neither!

Fantastic! GOP wins! Mission accomplished!

 

[Moonbeam]

The time it takes for smearing to be effective is roughly 1 week.

Spoken like a mind so rational it wants everybody to die that voted for Trump. Good story, bro.

 

[dank69]

Spoken like a mind so rational it wants everybody to die that voted for Trump. Good story, bro.

Die? No. Not enough suffering involved there.

 

[ivwshane]

I disagree. Verifiable fact used to mean something here. Sure we always had a couple fringe idiots but most people would at least accept valid, factual evidence and conform their argument to fit them, rather than try to deny the facts to fit their argument.

But that was the old days here. The 2000s. The days when off topic was so hot you could make a post, refresh your screen and the entire OT page be all new posts.

Ah, you see, I didn't start posting here until 2007. So I guess I missed the good ol' days.

Damn Obama!




Actually I think Bush is when the great divide happened, prepped and stoked by the Gingrich era of the mid 90's. Also known as the birth of the right.

 

[Amused]

Ah, you see, I didn't start posting here until 2007. So I guess I missed the good ol' days.

Damn Obama!

Actually I think Bush is when the great divide happened, prepped and stoked by the Gingrich era of the mid 90's. Also known as the birth of the right.

But Bush was also an era when the left partially mainstreamed batshit themselves. The wild conspiracies and accusations then were bad, but not anything compared to what's going on now.

I think the tipping point was the Tea Party. The leading vanguard was the religious right starting in the 80s. But even in that era the party was still led by intellectuals and facts still mattered, for the most part. But with Obama and the Tea Party, suddenly the right started sounding like tin foil hatters and anti-vaxxers. The batshit moved from the fringe and became mainstreamed. When politicians could campaign on debunked conspiracy theories and win, that's when it was too much for me.

 

[dank69]

But Bush was also an era when the left partially mainstreamed batshit themselves. The wild conspiracies and accusations then were bad, but not anything compared to what's going on now.

I think the tipping point was the Tea Party. The leading vanguard was the religious right starting in the 80s. But even in that era the party was still led by intellectuals and facts still mattered, for the most part. But with Obama and the Tea Party, suddenly the right started sounding like tin foil hatters and anti-vaxxers. The batshit moved from the fringe and became mainstreamed. When politicians could campaign on debunked conspiracy theories and win, that's when it was too much for me.

After Bush, conservatives were so fucking pissed off at having been the butt of so many jokes that they were itching for revenge. Obama gave them so little to criticize that they began making up shit on a daily basis. Mix that with all the incensed racists and it was the perfect storm. Conservatives are still convinced that Obama was the worst President ever.

 

[ivwshane]

But Bush was also an era when the left partially mainstreamed batshit themselves. The wild conspiracies and accusations then were bad, but not anything compared to what's going on now.

I think the tipping point was the Tea Party. The leading vanguard was the religious right starting in the 80s. But even in that era the party was still led by intellectuals and facts still mattered, for the most part. But with Obama and the Tea Party, suddenly the right started sounding like tin foil hatters and anti-vaxxers. The batshit moved from the fringe and became mainstreamed. When politicians could campaign on debunked conspiracy theories and win, that's when it was too much for me.

I didn't see much in the way of conspiracy theories from the left (I don't buy that 9/11 conspiracies were a product of the left), what I saw from the left during the Bush years was making fun of Bush for his incompetence and poor vocabulary. By that point though, the right was finding its audience, you remember the whole "only patriots support Bush" and where's your flag pin and freedom fries bullshit, right?

 

[Amused]

I didn't see much in the way of conspiracy theories from the left (I don't buy that 9/11 conspiracies were a product of the left), what I saw from the left during the Bush years was making fun of Bush for his incompetence and poor vocabulary. By that point though, the right was finding its audience, you remember the whole "only patriots support Bush" and where's your flag pin and freedom fries bullshit, right?

Oh, no doubt. Not that I want to get into it, but the simplistic "Bush lied, people died" mantra was based on a conspiracy theory that Bush manufactured evidence, rather than the world's intelligence agencies were duped by Saddam's rhetoric. I guess I was focused on that.

But yeah, I get ya. I just have no tolerance now for batshit from either side. But right now, the right-wing is the main danger to, well, just about everything.

And along with it has come a LOT of other crap that fucking irritates the shit out of me. Alt-med woo, science denial, chemtrails, flat earthers, anti-vaxxers. The shit is legion man. Legion.

 

[ivwshane]

Oh, no doubt. Not that I want to get into it, but the simplistic "Bush lied, people died" mantra was based on a conspiracy theory that Bush manufactured evidence, rather than the world's intelligence agencies were duped by Saddam's rhetoric. I guess I was focused on that.

But yeah, I get ya. I just have no tolerance now for batshit from either side. But right now, the right-wing is the main danger to, well, just about everything.

And along with it has come a LOT of other crap that fucking irritates the shit out of me. Alt-med woo, science denial, chemtrails, flat earthers, anti-vaxxers. The shit is legion man. Legion.

I hate to be "that guy", but it's well documented that the Bush admin lied about Iraq. There is no conspiracy there, its fact.

 

[Moonbeam]

I think Democrats ignored the bullshit and picked the most qualified candidate. How stupid of them. /eye roll

You've said it yourself, the "left" thinks in terms of logic and facts, the "right" thinks in terms of emotions, with those in the middle not doing much thinking at all (ok I added that last part).

Its ok we get it, you were drawn to the new shiny object. Just don't get mad that people saw the new shiny object for what it was, same as the old shit just with a "new and improved" sticker on it.

Stupid is the liberal explanation for everything because their logic is grounded with regard to a narrow range of moral issues. You are just such a blind liberal. Stupid stupid, stupid, everybody is stupid. Well, the people you call stupid are not stupid. Conservatives are not stupid. Conservatives vote the way they do for moral reasons you are incapable of crediting. It’s why liberals lose elections and are dumb founded by those results. It’s because, not that they are blind but because everybody is stupid. But there are liberals who see this liberal defect and aren’t prisoner to it, people who because you are blind must be chasing shiny things. Stupid idealists, of course, not people who have vision you can’t understand, not people who, because they have an even deeper respect for the moral values conservatives claim to honor and dont because they lack the moral integrity to introspect, can see the value of having a moral message that honors real values instead of having nothing to say but you’re stupid to vote for Trump. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers and invaded your safe space, boldly announcing to the existence of understand well beyond your own. I know how much that must hurt your ego, but there it is. Now get a grip.

 

[Amused]

I hate to be "that guy", but it's well documented that the Bush admin lied about Iraq. There is no conspiracy there, its fact.

Well, how do you explain other countries intelligence agencies coming to the same conclusion?

That part always kinda tore it for me. Countries that opposed our actions, agreed with the basic intel that led to them.

But do we really need to get into this now?

 

[dank69]

Stupid is the liberal explanation for everything because their logic is grounded with regard to a narrow range of moral issues. You are just such a blind liberal. Stupid stupid, stupid, everybody is stupid. Well, the people you call stupid are not stupid. Conservatives are not stupid. Conservatives vote the way they do for moral reasons you are incapable of crediting. It’s why liberals lose elections and are dumb founded by those results. It’s because, not that they are blind but because everybody is stupid. But there are liberals who see this liberal defect and aren’t prisoner to it, people who because you are blind must be chasing shiny things. Stupid idealists, of course, not people who have vision you can’t understand, not people who, because they have an even deeper respect for the moral values conservatives claim to honor and dont because they lack the moral integrity to introspect, can see the value of having a moral message that honors real values instead of having nothing to say but you’re stupid to vote for Trump. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers and invaded your safe space, boldly announcing to the existence of understand well beyond your own. I know how much that must hurt your ego, but there it is. Now get a grip.

Sorry but I can't get super enthused about honoring moral values that conservatives claim to honor but really don't.

 

[dank69]

Well, how do you explain other countries intelligence agencies coming to the same conclusion?

That part always kinda tore it for me. Countries that opposed our actions, agreed with the basic intel that led to them.

But do we really need to get into this now?

Might as well, we are all over the place anyway.

 

[Amused]

Might as well, we are all over the place anyway.

OK, this made me laugh. This kinda stuff right here is the AT I remember.

 

[ivwshane]

Well, how do you explain other countries intelligence agencies coming to the same conclusion?

That part always kinda tore it for me. Countries that opposed our actions, agreed with the basic intel that led to them.

But do we really need to get into this now?

You do know that we were the ones that disseminated most of the intelligence to other countries, right, especially the stuff the invasion was based on. The intelligence community didn't get anything wrong, it was the Bush admin that lied about what the intelligence community said. Hell even Powell later found out he was lied to and therefore his UN speech was a lie.

 

[Noah Abrams]

As much as I’m critical of the left, there is one thing I could not agree more with them. Multi culturalism. I have come to realize we have a lot to learn from immigrants, if we have the open mindedness and humility to do so. The typical entitled, me me American can do worse than befriend immigrants

And yes, I don’t support DACA or any amnesty.

No, there is no contradiction above at all. Not every person falls neatly into a party box. Actually most don’t.

 

[Amused]

You do know that we were the ones that disseminated most of the intelligence to other countries, right, especially the stuff the invasion was based on. The intelligence community didn't get anything wrong, it was the Bush admin that lied about what the intelligence community said. Hell even Powell later found out he was lied to and therefore his UN speech was a lie.

I think it's a little more involved than that, but let's agree to disagree, shall we?

The wiki page on it is pretty detailed and while it's obvious mistakes were made, I really don't see any conspiracy to deceive there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

 

[ivwshane]

Stupid is the liberal explanation for everything because their logic is grounded with regard to a narrow range of moral issues. You are just such a blind liberal. Stupid stupid, stupid, everybody is stupid. Well, the people you call stupid are not stupid. Conservatives are not stupid. Conservatives vote the way they do for moral reasons you are incapable of crediting. It’s why liberals lose elections and are dumb founded by those results. It’s because, not that they are blind but because everybody is stupid. But there are liberals who see this liberal defect and aren’t prisoner to it, people who because you are blind must be chasing shiny things. Stupid idealists, of course, not people who have vision you can’t understand, not people who, because they have an even deeper respect for the moral values conservatives claim to honor and dont because they lack the moral integrity to introspect, can see the value of having a moral message that honors real values instead of having nothing to say but you’re stupid to vote for Trump. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers and invaded your safe space, boldly announcing to the existence of understand well beyond your own. I know how much that must hurt your ego, but there it is. Now get a grip.

That's freaken hilarious! You just claimed conservatives vote for moral reasons, I guess that explains why they voted for the most morally corrupt president in our history.

Here's a fun fact for you moonie, liberals actually practice what conservatives preach.

Its an opinion piece but he does try to back it up with citations.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/opinion/sunday/blue-states-red-states-values.html

Hey, I'm glad I could send you into a rage though by pointing out your flaws. Apparently it's ok when you do it to others. So you can thank me later

 

[dank69]

As much as I’m critical of the left, there is one thing I could not agree more with them. Multi culturalism. I have come to realize we have a lot to learn from immigrants, if we have the open mindedness and humility to do so. The typical entitled, me me American can do worse than befriend immigrants

And yes, I don’t support DACA or any amnesty.

No, there is no contradiction above at all. Not every person falls neatly into a party box. Actually most don’t.

So why don't you think it would be good to legalize DACA recipients?