Thinking about it.. an afterlife doesn't make sense, sadly

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Aberforth
The sum total of cosmic energy is always the same, there is a wave of intelligence that always existed which ancients called as God, creation and creator are two parallel lines without beginning or end, it's a circle under which we filter out different subjects. Real truth cannot be categorized as scientific, philosophical or spiritual- these are different means of understanding but they are still half-truths. Every subject is incomplete, physics would meet it's goal when it finds one energy out of which all other energies are formed, chemistry- one element out of which all others are formed, so is it with the other subjects.

Originally posted by: Farang
i'm so high

Hmm.

A wave of intelligence? Cosmic energy? What exactly is cosmic energy? Based on the rest of your post, I don't think that your definition of "energy" is anything close to what energy is in the world of physics (the real world).

Let me ask you something? why do we stress on humanity in general? Think about it. Why shouldn't one kill another if he feels good in doing that? why one shouldn't steal? why one shouldn't lie? if they all feel pride in doing that, if that's their purpose of life?. When we were kids we were taught not to lie or steal, but they didn't teach us why we shouldn't do that? because our parents do not know the answer. No scientist or philosopher can give you the right answer for it- they can only give you the superstitious answer or induce fear, but these questions were really put into effect by some intelligence reaction that came from beyond, like pre-programming human beings. All of these questions about morality, humanity, intellect etc cannot be answered because they are beyond the field of reasoning, that which we call afterlife, God or whatever. Human beings cannot be unkind, cruel, untruthful - if they are then they are doing it under pressure of circumstances with sufficient guilt.

Why not steal, lie, or murder? Because humans tend to like some level of stability, and these things would compromise that.
To automatically attribute these thoughts to some supernatural entity is just silly though; it only feeds a view that this species is somehow utterly infantile, and incapable of doing anything reasonable on its own.
Curious too that religion tends to introduce superstitions (or rather, religion organizes them), and it uses fear as a primary weapon - believe in X Deity's ideals of love and benevolence, or you will suffer forever.

Also,

Originally posted by: Aberforth
That's right, monkeys cannot evolve into intelligence species capable of landing on moon, without a intelligent pattern of evolution.

This "intelligent pattern" - are you saying that it was evolution, guided by some higher power? That is of course an assumption on your part.

 

[Red Squirrel]

If you really want to hurt your head, think of the fact that God has existed forever. Even before the universe existed, you can go back to infinity both ways on time line, and He's there.

Then, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkxieS-6WuA

 

[RapidSnail]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: Jeff7
So the intelligent designer must have been more complex than that which it created.
Like always is said then, that higher degree of complexity would therefore require an even more complex creator, ie, who created the creator?

The sum total of cosmic energy is always the same, there is a wave of intelligence that always existed which ancients called as God, creation and creator are two parallel lines without beginning or end, it's a circle under which we filter out different subjects. Real truth cannot be categorized as scientific, philosophical or spiritual- these are different means of understanding but they are still half-truths. Every subject is incomplete, physics would meet it's goal when it finds one energy out of which all other energies are formed, chemistry- one element out of which all others are formed, so is it with the other subjects.

Let me ask you something? why do we stress on humanity in general? Think about it. Why shouldn't one kill another if he feels good in doing that? why one shouldn't steal? why one shouldn't lie? if they all feel pride in doing that, if that's their purpose of life?. When we were kids we were taught not to lie or steal, but they didn't teach us why we shouldn't do that? because our parents do not know the answer. No scientist or philosopher can give you the right answer for it- they can only give you the superstitious answer or induce fear, but these questions were really put into effect by some intelligence reaction that came from beyond, like pre-programming human beings. All of these questions about morality, humanity, intellect etc cannot be answered because they are beyond the field of reasoning, that which we call afterlife, God or whatever. Human beings cannot be unkind, cruel, untruthful - if they are then they are doing it under pressure of circumstances with sufficient guilt.

No.

Why? (See I can do it too!)

 

[Aberforth]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: Aberforth
That's right, monkeys cannot evolve into intelligence species capable of landing on moon, without a intelligent pattern of evolution.

This "intelligent pattern" - are you saying that it was evolution, guided by some higher power? That is of course an assumption on your part.

Like I said 'wave of intelligence', a reaction set forth by this wave, just like equations in chemistry. And one more thing- I dont assume anything otheriwise I'd have bought religion into this discussion by now, this comes my hobby research and personal experience- which I do not want to discuss here because people bring religious discussions which I don't like. You can PM if you like, thnx

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Aberforth
Like I said 'wave of intelligence', a reaction set forth by this wave, just like equations in chemistry. And one more thing- I dont assume anything otherwise I'd have bought religion into this discussion by now, this comes my hobby research and personal experience- which I do not want to discuss here because people bring religious discussions which I don't like. You can PM if you like, thnx

What I'm saying is, "wave of intelligence" means nothing. It sounds like metaphysical nonsense to me.

And if you're saying that religion is the basis for your arguments of the origins of intelligence, well, a discussion likely wouldn't get anywhere. Religion makes a lot of assumptions based on ancient texts written by superstitious people, the kind who believed that goat blood and dead chickens could somehow influence natural events. (Other than the lives of those goats and chickens killed because of our ignorance.)

 

[Aberforth]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: Aberforth
Like I said 'wave of intelligence', a reaction set forth by this wave, just like equations in chemistry. And one more thing- I dont assume anything otherwise I'd have bought religion into this discussion by now, this comes my hobby research and personal experience- which I do not want to discuss here because people bring religious discussions which I don't like. You can PM if you like, thnx

What I'm saying is, "wave of intelligence" means nothing. It sounds like metaphysical nonsense to me.

Yep, everything sounds nonsense until you understand it. If science is incapable of answering something they label it as superstitious or fictional or some other BS.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: Jeff7
What I'm saying is, "wave of intelligence" means nothing. It sounds like metaphysical nonsense to me.

Yep, everything sounds nonsense until you understand it. If science is incapable of answering something they label it as superstitious or fictional or some other BS.

I don't know if you're getting what I'm saying. I might as well say, "voice of grapefruit," or "frequency of chickens." "Wave of intelligence" has no meaning to me; have you a description of it?

 

[Zeeky Boogy Doog]

Originally posted by: bignateyk

Originally posted by: Woosta

Originally posted by: bignateyk
Life doesn't make sense either. Think about it. You live in this universe that had to have come from somewhere, but where the hell did it come from? You live on a habitable planet in the middle of that chaotic universe. What are the odds of that? 1 in trillions? even less? On top of that, you are an intelligent being on that planet. How many millions of years of evolution did that take? And why you? Out of all the other intelligent beings, and other life forms, why did you become you?

Until life makes sense, I don't really examine an afterlife making sense.

Good observation, I've thought about the creation of the universe as well... how the hell did it come to be, how the hell does the big bang really work? Will it always expand? What if it starts contracting? Is there a limit?

Even the big bang doesn't make sense. Something can't come from nothing. There had to have been something there before. Even if all the matter in the universe was concentrated to one spot right before the big bang happened, where did that concentrated matter come from?


edit: And think about the incredible number of things that had to happen just right for your existence to happen. The odds are probably so small you couldn't fill thousands of pages with zeros before you got to the fraction that represents your life. It's almost laughable. You had to be in the right universe, the right place (our planet), the right time (evolved). On top of that, how many millions of sperm went into your mom, each one representing a different possibility for life.

actually, from what I understand, the big bang was not a concentration of matter that burst out to form everything. Before the big bang, there was nothing, and I don't mean vacume type nothing, there was absolutely nothing, you would be unable to exist even if you were put there, because there's nowhere to put you. The big bang was an expansion of space, this result of this reaction, the creation of space, was actually that matter and anti matter was created in the new space. Something I read estimated there were about 1000001 protons to every 1000000 anti-protons, which actually destroyed each other, meaning all matter in our universe is actually composed of the 1 extra proton/1000000anti protons created during this expansion (partially explaining why so much of space is empty i suppose). Of course, this could all be bs too, we just don't know.

I have more to say, but no more time, so I'll leave you with that.

 

[Aberforth]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: Jeff7
What I'm saying is, "wave of intelligence" means nothing. It sounds like metaphysical nonsense to me.

Yep, everything sounds nonsense until you understand it. If science is incapable of answering something they label it as superstitious or fictional or some other BS.

I don't know if you're getting what I'm saying. I might as well say, "voice of grapefruit," or "frequency of chickens." "Wave of intelligence" has no meaning to me; have you a description of it?

huh? Wave of Intelligence= God. Actually, I do not know. If you answer that question, you will solve everything in this world.

 

[bsobel]

That's kind of my point. If you look at it as a random process, the odds are so ridiculous it's laughable. Then again, who knows what can happen when infinite odds combine with infinite time. I lean toward intelligent design though.

If you actually understood the word infinite you'd realize the odds are 100%

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: bsobel

That's kind of my point. If you look at it as a random process, the odds are so ridiculous it's laughable. Then again, who knows what can happen when infinite odds combine with infinite time. I lean toward intelligent design though.

If you actually understood the word infinite you'd realize the odds are 100%

Why the obsession with "odds?" Odds have their use but in this context I don't see the usefulness. You are here on earth, that much is constant as long as you live. If you weren't here you wouldn't be thinking about this or anything. You are the universe thinking about itself.

Regarding the Big Bang, I like the idea that if the universe happened once, why can't another one happen? And another?

"If you know what life is worth, you will look for yours on earth." - Bob Marley

 

[bignateyk]

Originally posted by: Zeeky Boogy Doog

Originally posted by: bignateyk

Originally posted by: Woosta

Originally posted by: bignateyk
Life doesn't make sense either. Think about it. You live in this universe that had to have come from somewhere, but where the hell did it come from? You live on a habitable planet in the middle of that chaotic universe. What are the odds of that? 1 in trillions? even less? On top of that, you are an intelligent being on that planet. How many millions of years of evolution did that take? And why you? Out of all the other intelligent beings, and other life forms, why did you become you?

Until life makes sense, I don't really examine an afterlife making sense.

Good observation, I've thought about the creation of the universe as well... how the hell did it come to be, how the hell does the big bang really work? Will it always expand? What if it starts contracting? Is there a limit?

Even the big bang doesn't make sense. Something can't come from nothing. There had to have been something there before. Even if all the matter in the universe was concentrated to one spot right before the big bang happened, where did that concentrated matter come from?


edit: And think about the incredible number of things that had to happen just right for your existence to happen. The odds are probably so small you couldn't fill thousands of pages with zeros before you got to the fraction that represents your life. It's almost laughable. You had to be in the right universe, the right place (our planet), the right time (evolved). On top of that, how many millions of sperm went into your mom, each one representing a different possibility for life.

actually, from what I understand, the big bang was not a concentration of matter that burst out to form everything. Before the big bang, there was nothing, and I don't mean vacume type nothing, there was absolutely nothing, you would be unable to exist even if you were put there, because there's nowhere to put you. The big bang was an expansion of space, this result of this reaction, the creation of space, was actually that matter and anti matter was created in the new space. Something I read estimated there were about 1000001 protons to every 1000000 anti-protons, which actually destroyed each other, meaning all matter in our universe is actually composed of the 1 extra proton/1000000anti protons created during this expansion (partially explaining why so much of space is empty i suppose). Of course, this could all be bs too, we just don't know.

I have more to say, but no more time, so I'll leave you with that.

So there was absolutely nothing before the big bang. What triggered it then? Even if the big bang somehow created something out of nothing, there is still no explanation as to what caused the big bang.

 

[Kadarin]

I hope there is some kind of consciousness that persists after death, but I believe that the idea is just wishful thinking on the part of a lot of people who desperately wish that the answer to the question "is this all that we are" is no. There is no evidence whatsoever that there is such a thing as "life after death" but people still want to believe.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: bsobel

That's kind of my point. If you look at it as a random process, the odds are so ridiculous it's laughable. Then again, who knows what can happen when infinite odds combine with infinite time. I lean toward intelligent design though.

If you actually understood the word infinite you'd realize the odds are 100%

Why the obsession with "odds?" Odds have their use but in this context I don't see the usefulness. You are here on earth, that much is constant as long as you live. If you weren't here you wouldn't be thinking about this or anything. You are the universe thinking about itself.

Regarding the Big Bang, I like the idea that if the universe happened once, why can't another one happen? And another?

"If you know what life is worth, you will look for yours on earth." - Bob Marley

Cause if you really understood infinite you'd realize this conversation is happening infinite times on infinite earths as well

 

[bsobel]

So there was absolutely nothing before the big bang. What triggered it then? Even if the big bang somehow created something out of nothing, there is still no explanation as to what caused the big bang.

Go read Parallel Worlds: A Journey Through Creation, Higher Dimensions, and the Future of the Cosmos...

 

[BeliefStreet]

The Steve-O-Meter is over one thousand now.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: bsobel

That's kind of my point. If you look at it as a random process, the odds are so ridiculous it's laughable. Then again, who knows what can happen when infinite odds combine with infinite time. I lean toward intelligent design though.

If you actually understood the word infinite you'd realize the odds are 100%

Why the obsession with "odds?" Odds have their use but in this context I don't see the usefulness. You are here on earth, that much is constant as long as you live. If you weren't here you wouldn't be thinking about this or anything. You are the universe thinking about itself.

Regarding the Big Bang, I like the idea that if the universe happened once, why can't another one happen? And another?

"If you know what life is worth, you will look for yours on earth." - Bob Marley

Cause if you really understood infinite you'd realize this conversation is happening infinite times on infinite earths as well

Well, that's in your mind for what it's worth. Not sure it means much. I'm prepared to accept the notion that there's only one "earth" in the universe. Other inhabited planets, sure, but the notion infinity does not mean that everything in the universe is infinitely replicated elsewhere! We're in the realm of metaphysics here, mind games.

 

[bsobel]

sure, but the notion infinity does not mean that everything in the universe is infinitely replicated elsewhere! We're in the realm of metaphysics here, mind games.

Actually it does. Now, we can argue if the universe is indeed infinite, the answer to that certainly changes things a lot. But by the definition of infinite it requires the duplication, there are only so many states available, at some point those states are the same elsewhere.

 

[Oceandevi]

There is an afterlife, you get your flying mount and explore the universe.

 

[mxyzptlk]

I think it works something like this: The body that you're in now is like a transistor radio. Your "I think, therefor I am" consciousness is like the radio signal.. being "broadcast" from somewhere, I don't know maybe higher dimensions or something. IANAPhysicist. When the body dies, the signal keeps going. It can find a home in another similar configuration of matter anywhere in the universe and at any time too. However, I don't think memory is part of it.. for memory you have to have a set of hardwired neurons in a physical brain. You don't get to keep your memories when you enter a new body.

 

[rbV5]

The concept of an afterlife is simply a myth used to control the masses and to buffer us from the knowlege that we all know deep down is true....This is it folks, enjoy it while you can:beer:

 

[meltdown75]

in the afterlife, you post threads on Heaven ATOT about the 2nd afterlife

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: rbV5
The concept of an afterlife is simply a myth used to control the masses and to buffer us from the knowlege that we all know deep down is true....This is it folks, enjoy it while you can:beer:

Indeed.

That's what amuses me about people who mourn over death, and who seem to wish against it themselves.

So let's see, you get this minuscule time on Earth, during which suffering is a fact of life. Then there's an afterlife of eternal happiness.

As you say, much of it seems like people really understand that this is it, and the afterlife thing is just a fairy tale, made up to comfort children whose parents can't explain death without it freaking them out.

Originally posted by: meltdown75
in the afterlife, you post threads on Heaven ATOT about the 2nd afterlife

Can we nef, too? And will there still be babe threads, for those of us who will spend eternity as virgins?

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: meltdown75
in the afterlife, you post threads on Heaven ATOT about the 2nd afterlife

Can we nef, too? And will there still be babe threads, for those of us who will spend eternity as virgins?

purgatory AKA TFNN is where you can nef and post babe threads.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Something can't come from nothing.

According to your intuition. However, that statement has been debunked numerous times. See: virtual particle, Hawking radiation

It could be argued that virtual particles and Hawking radiation do come from 'something', in this case the probabilities within the quantum foam. IOW, they can happen, therefore they do.
However, arguing what happened in the time before time is pointless. Perhaps spacetime(s) did exist prior to our spacetime, but it was necessarily in different dimensions to what we call spacetime now, and therefore not the same spacetime at all.

To those who argue that the odds require some intelligent design, I say you misunderstand. It's not random, it's probability. If you shuffle a deck of cards enough times, every different possible ordering of the cards will appear. Likewise the universe, but on a MUCH grander and more complex scale. We - conscious self-aware human beings - exist along that particular timeline where the probability of our existence is 1, as evidenced by the fact that we exist to talk about it. As such, there is no randomness at all, just proof that in a universe where anything can happen, everything does.

As to the topic, I've given this a bit of thought, and my personal belief is that is because YOU are your DNA, that you are that sequence of information from which emerges your consciousness due its passage through spacetime, therefore the only 2 probable outcomes after death are either (1) nothingness, or (2) you 'go back' to do it all over again but along a different timeline with subtly different results and with (of course) no memory of having done it before. How 'often' one might go back to do it again might depend on numerous factors, like the probability of one's existence in the first place (incalculable), to maybe something like the decision of some God (the probability of which is also incalculable). Either way, you won't notice, so you won't mind.
Compared to the alternative of not existing, existence is a wonderful gift anyway, so whether it's just this 'temporary' life or 'all eternity,' why worry about it?