The world versus 40 Republican Senators: climate change

[Jaskalas]

The right seems to think the wirld's scientists have become corrupt monsters out to defraud the planet.

If global climate change is the error they think - lie, mistake, whatever - I'm all for that coming out.

Lies. You just got done calling that EXACT thing "right wing propaganda".

PRIMARY UNITED STATES CLIMATE CENTERS NOW CAUGHT IN DATA MANIPULATION

 

[Craig234]

WOW ! That's #1 of your 10,000 reasons? It's not sound science to judge the accuracy of hypothesis by looking at who agrees with it. I really need the science, not the propaganda or the FUD.

Actually, it does.

Here's what doesn't work: 70% of Fox viewers say it, so it's right!

Here's what works: 100% of the world's national academy of sciences who have take a position agree against you, so they're right.

But you are welcome to post your blithering expose of how they're all wrong, in another thread since as I've said repeatedly this thread is not to debate the issue of global warming. You can't.

 

[Ozoned]

One nation had a special role - as the world's largest per-capita polluter, and the dominant user of resources and the biggest economy, it was required for the plans to work.

FYI, Australia is the worlds largest per capita pollutor, and china is the worlds largest consumer of resources.

I think the main problem in supporting any kind of climate change protocol is that the american people don't want to pay for it, and it is their choice, not the 40 R's.

People want job creation now, not that other stuff. The following is how government is seeing to that.

They give that Michael Mann fellow (climate gate scandal) that made the medevial warm period, and the little ice age disappear in his hockey stick graph got $541,184 in econmic stimulus funds to fund his corrupt research. The stimulus was not advertised to the public as a way to reward a loyalist on the climate change debate. It also wasn't sold as a way to promote the Obama Administration's position on the global warming theory.

Obama and his minions, the guys representing the Left in this country, can't be trusted with the subject matter in your OP. Doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks, or wants us to do.

If the 40 R's are standing in the way of a corrupt government that acts in this manner, I will proudly stand with them.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

In your case, it's because you are an idiot. For some others, it was sleep.

That's why I read your threads -- seeing a delusional idiot such as yourself twisting everything to suit his vile agenda reminds me that the fight is never over.

 

[Craig234]

Lies. You just got done calling that EXACT thing "right wing propaganda".

PRIMARY UNITED STATES CLIMATE CENTERS NOW CAUGHT IN DATA MANIPULATION

Wrong. Arguing there's an error in a claim 2005 was the ottest year does not disprove all the science on the global climate issus. It is right-wing propaganda to lie about the science.

The science I've seen say that the real effects of this issue start in decades, with some early warning signs now, but we havie righties here judging the issue based on the temperature where they are now.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

And you are shown an idiot again. Even I sleep on occassion.

The only idiot on here is you. Keep posting, I love seeing you get owned repeatedly. You should have your own sitcom.

 

[Fern]

Have you read the article before you post wrong things? I won't refer to the article in a reply if you don't know what I'm talking about.

Yes, I read your article as well as a number of others.

If you did likewise you'd see that there are a number of Democratic Senators not willing to vote for the bill.

I'm pleasently doubtful the Senate will ever get around to vote on cap-n-trade (although there is a rumor Repub Senator Murkowski is trying to force a vote now because it will fail), instead I bet they split energy policy reform from cap-n-trade and pass the former and not the latter.

Fern

 

[Craig234]

FYI, Australia is the worlds largest per capita pollutor, and china is the worlds largest consumer of resources.

The article says it's the US. If they're wrong the US is 'one of the top', and far more significant. It doesn't change the underlying point. On China, I could check some things and we could see which is right, but what's important is that they're both huge consumers of resources. The US role in this cooperative effort is very important.

I think the main problem in supporting any kind of climate change protocol is that the american people don't want to pay for it, and it is their choice, not the 40 R's.

Wrong about R's. Whatever the people want, the R's are motivated by their political interests, disregarding the well being of the planet. It doesn't matter what the right answer is in saying what their motivation is.

People want job creation now, not that other stuff. The following is how government is seeing to that.

They give that Michael Mann fellow (climate gate scandal) that made the medevial warm period, and the little ice age disappear in his hockey stick graph got $541,184 in econmic stimulus funds to fund his corrupt research. The stimulus was not advertised to the public as a way to reward a loyalist on the climate change debate. It also wasn't sold as a way to promote the Obama Administration's position on the global warming theory.

Obama and his minions, the guys representing the Left in this country, can't be trusted with the subject matter in your OP. Doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks, or wants us to do.

If the 40 R's are standing in the way of a corrupt government that acts in this manner, I will proudly stand with them.

Hey, another cherry picked tidbit disporves all the science and justifies you standing for evil.

You can post hyperbole and misleading attacks. Not worth much.

I'lll ask you the same: why are there zero nations' academies of science on your side?

 

[StageLeft]

I don't care what it "needs". If the issue is so glaring, so serious, then it matters not what the US is going to do, the rest of the world will act to, at minimum, stem the effect the entire world is allegedly having on the climate.



The bottom line is that 40 Republicans voted they way they wanted to, the same as the 50whatever Dem's and the however many Independents. The rest of the world is voting as well, you can see how many took the lead and announced - despite what any other country would or would not do - what they would specifically be doing:

None.



Who knows Craig? Maybe because they love being in control? Maybe because they love being in the spotlight? Maybe because they love that neverending stream of funding they get, that they'd otherwise have to scrap for? Ask them why they had to cheat and lie, I for the life of my cannot understand why if the science was so pure, why any manipulation would ever be needed, or even considered.

Chuck

The voice of reason. It's obvious that if China wants to stop being the world's worst polluter, for example, it will and if it feels it's important it will even if the US doesn't care. But let's please be real. Most of China is still a poor shanty and China will do nothing but a token gesture because in its view it's worth a few dirty rivers to get some more people up out of third world status.

This is of course the same argument for all the countries. If global warming is as dire as most of the flag carriers claim the pitiful efforts striven for at Copenhagen are trivial. 20%? 30%? Come on, you'd need much more than that. The US is just a scapegoat now. The reality is that no country is going to do what some of its scientists say it should because the economic costs would be too high.

 

[Craig234]

This is of course the same argument for all the countries. If global warming is as dire as most of the flag carriers claim the pitiful efforts striven for at Copenhagen are trivial. 20%? 30%? Come on, you'd need much more than that. The US is just a scapegoat now.

The US responded to those offers with an offer to reduce its emissions *4%* from 1990 levels, and they're a 'scapegoat'. THats all they could offer because of the 40 Republicans limiting their options.

 

[Jaskalas]

Wrong. Arguing there's an error in a claim 2005 was the ottest year does not disprove all the science on the global climate issus. It is right-wing propaganda to lie about the science.

The science I've seen say that the real effects of this issue start in decades, with some early warning signs now, but we havie righties here judging the issue based on the temperature where they are now.

2005 is a single year. The data manipulation applies to ALL the data for several decades now.

he says, "and the deeper I dug the more amazing the details revealed. When doing a benchmark test of the program, I found patterns in the input data from NCDC that looked like dramatic and selective deletions of thermometers from cold locations." Smith says after awhile, it became clear this was not a random strange pattern he was finding, but a well designed and orchestrated manipulation process. "The more I looked, the more I found patterns of deletion that could not be accidental. Thermometers moved from cold mountains to warm beaches; from Siberian Arctic to more southerly locations and from pristine rural locations to jet airport tarmacs. The last remaining Arctic thermometer in Canada is in a place called 'The Garden Spot of the Arctic,’ always moving away from the cold and toward the heat. I could not believe it was so blatant and it clearly looked like it was in support of an agenda,” Smith says.

 

[Ozoned]

I'lll ask you the same: why are there zero nations' academies of science on your side?

Well obviously because the liberals have corrupted the science with politics. How else could Man made climate change religion get a platform?

 

[Craig234]

face/palm

Oh for heaven's sake the Senate hasn't even brought the Boxer/Kerry Bill to the floor for a vote.

By most accounts the bill isn't even ready, they slammed something through committee to look good for Copenhagen. My bet is that bill, in it's current 'slap-dash' condition,will never make it to a vote.

Also, by most accounts there are NOT even 50 votes in the Senate for a cap-n-trade bill.

If you read the article, why are you misrepresentig it?

Thiis has nothing to do with things that have cme to a vote, it has to do with the effect of the Repubilcans' power they're abusing to block the passage and the effect that has had on the negitoations.

You say you read it but your post says ntohing but that uyou may as well have since you don't show any awareness of it.

The author of your linked article is another lefty who thinks the USA should pay huge sums of money to other countries for MMGW, to whine about how the rest of world is ready to sacrifice for MMGW is dishonest. It ain't a sacrifice to accept billions from Europe and the USA. And IIRC, they want the money but refused to accept verification that the funds were used for their intended purpose. What BS.

Fern

Oh gee how terrible the polluters should pay for the cleanup. And you say he's whiny?

You misrepresent this too. No one said the developing nations are paying big bucks. I and the article you read with your eyes closed said the opposite. Europe stepped up.

You want verification of use? How are you going to negtiate when your position is not to give the money regardless? Try saying you will give the money with verification before you demand it.

You know Fern, I demand that you offer concessions in your selling your house to me for $5 million. But you know what, I won't pay a penny for it, I'm telling you now, I just demand you make the concessions.

 

[Craig234]

2005 is a single year. The data manipulation applies to ALL the data for several decades now.

How much of the global research has been based on that one set of data?

 

[Ozoned]

How much of the global research has been based on that one set of data?

All roads lead to the IPCC. Heh. You can search that phrase.

 

[Craig234]

All roads lead to the IPCC. Heh. You can search that phrase.

You're saying all global research relied on this set of data and is invaliidated? Speakkng of Ozone, from the last phony environemtnal issue of Ozone in the atmosphere. Too bad we fell for it.

I guess they got away with it that time because it didn't step on the toes of big oil. Just goes to show what they can do that they're saving us from scientists this time.

 

[Darwin333]

I don't understnad your post. The world says "we'll do our share". The US says "we'll piss on your leg and you tell you it's raining." The world says, no deal. You say, the US can't be blamed?

I am not going to get involved in the entire climate change argument because I just don't know if its real or not. I am not qualified to make an educated decision and the issue has become entirely to politicized for me to trust one side or the other.

However, I saw a lot of "emerging countries" looking for a sweet pay day in Copenhagan. I am not saying thats all that happened but that is something that was hard to miss. The gist of it was we where going to pay a fuckton of money (wasn't it like 100B a year?) for doing harm to them that hasn't happened yet.

The really ironic part of the entire thing was we couldn't give them any money if we really wanted too because all of "them" have stopped loaning us money.

This is something that I really don't think your side gets. It doesn't matter if it is real of not with the price tags they are throwing around. We simply can not borrow that much more money and we damn sure can't afford to take it out of the consumer or businesses pockets. We can't afford the spending we already have , you guys want healthcare that will cost us a ton (even if done right it will cost a ton the first decade or two probably longer knowing our politicians), 2 wars that are not ramping down, bailouts/handouts/tax credits/C4C/$8K/ton of other programs, tax receipts are through the floor (Federal,State,and local), whole social security problem, entire States on the verge of insolvency, having to issue an insane amount of bonds each year due partly to new spending and more so by short term debt being rolled over (basically, almost all of our debt must be rolled over into new bonds over the next 4 years) with record bond sales every few months, etc......

We can't tax people and businesses enough to cover what we are currently spending. How in the world do you plan to cover this massive new spending? I know your going to say we can't afford to not pay it but it doesn't matter. Unless your willing to fire up the printing press over this I really don't see how its possible. If you don't have it and you can't possibly get it then it doesn't really matter how badly its needed.

 

[Craig234]

I am not going to get involved in the entire climate change argument because I just don't know if its real or not. I am not qualified to make an educated decision...

That's the best comment in a response yet. Another goof reason, it would be off-topic.

and the issue has become entirely to politicized for me to trust one side or the other.

However, I saw a lot of "emerging countries" looking for a sweet pay day in Copenhagan. I am not saying thats all that happened but that is something that was hard to miss. The gist of it was we where going to pay a fuckton of money (wasn't it like 100B a year?) for doing harm to them that hasn't happened yet.

The really ironic part of the entire thing was we couldn't give them any money if we really wanted too because all of "them" have stopped loaning us money.

This is something that I really don't think your side gets. It doesn't matter if it is real of not with the price tags they are throwing around. We simply can not borrow that much more money and we damn sure can't afford to take it out of the consumer or businesses pockets. We can't afford the spending we already have , you guys want healthcare that will cost us a ton (even if done right it will cost a ton the first decade or two probably longer knowing our politicians), 2 wars that are not ramping down, bailouts/handouts/tax credits/C4C/$8K/ton of other programs, tax receipts are through the floor (Federal,State,and local), whole social security problem, entire States on the verge of insolvency, having to issue an insane amount of bonds each year due partly to new spending and more so by short term debt being rolled over (basically, almost all of our debt must be rolled over into new bonds over the next 4 years) with record bond sales every few months, etc......

Can we afford the impact of not doing it? We couldn't afford sending a man to the moon or WWII either, but we did them. You suggest we not do this and have far worse things happen after all these leaders are out?

We can't tax people and businesses enough to cover what we are currently spending. How in the world do you plan to cover this massive new spending? I know your going to say we can't afford to not pay it but it doesn't matter. Unless your willing to fire up the printing press over this I really don't see how its possible. If you don't have it and you can't possibly get it then it doesn't really matter how badly its needed.

You got me there, I said what you said I was going to. But you haven't address the issue either.

President Franklin R. Darwin announced to day the US cannot afford WWII and will surrender immediately.

Come on, let's talk real numbers. I haven't seen them crazy. What did we spend on enriching Wall Street to keep the economy from crashing they blackmailed us with?

 

[Munky]

Oh, so sorry you corrected my error.

The argument wasn't 'if a scientist got it wrong in primitive times, all sscience is wrong today'.

It was 'a so-called exert was wrong in primitive times, so all science is wrong today.'

Idiot.

No, idiot, your "scientists" abandoned the scientific method a while back when they decided to manipulate the results to fit the hypothesis, not to mention their political and economic agenda.

 

[Craig234]

No, idiot, your "scientists" abandoned the scientific method a while back when they decided to manipulate the results to fit the hypothesis, not to mention their political and economic agenda.

World's scientists wrong, Dr. Munky right.

 

[Munky]

World's scientists wrong, Dr. Munky right.

If your world only includes "national academies"

 

[Fern]

If you read the article, why are you misrepresentig it?

Thiis has nothing to do with things that have cme to a vote, it has to do with the effect of the Repubilcans' power they're abusing to block the passage and the effect that has had on the negitoations.

You say you read it but your post says ntohing but that uyou may as well have since you don't show any awareness of it.

I read it, I don't agree with him or you.

I'm telling you there are Dem Senators who WON'T vote for it. I'm saying they probably can NOT get 50 votes, this renders moot the whole "40" votes argument.

Oh gee how terrible the polluters should pay for the cleanup. And you say he's whiny?

You misrepresent this too. No one said the developing nations are paying big bucks. I and the article you read with your eyes closed said the opposite. Europe stepped up.

Umm, you either typing or reading too fast. Go back and look again, I'm saying those nations are DEMANDING money, not paying it.

Fern

 

[monovillage]

The facts, cold hard proof, the scientific method. GISS along with CRU has repeatedly falsified the data. How can anyone make a good political decision based on lies, fraudulent data and fearmongering? At least the 40 Republican Senators aren't allowing themselves to be stampeded like mindless cattle.
http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/correct_the_corrections_the_giss_urban_adjustment/

 

[Craig234]

The facts, cold hard proof, the scientific method. GISS along with CRU has repeatedly falsified the data. How can anyone make a good political decision based on lies, fraudulent data and fearmongering? At least the 40 Republican Senators aren't allowing themselves to be stampeded like mindless cattle.
http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/correct_the_corrections_the_giss_urban_adjustment/

Of course the 40 Republicans arenot acting like mindless cattle.

They're behaving much more evilly, putting political benefit and oil donors ahead of mankind.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Of course the 40 Republicans arenot acting like mindless cattle.

They're behaving much more evilly, putting political benefit and oil donors ahead of mankind.