The Wink home automation thread

[RossMAN]

The GE Link LED outdoor PAR38 bulb (Wink Certified) is 900 lumens: ($25)

http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-Link-...ome-LED-Flood-Light-Bulb-PSB38-BW30/205404389

That's the one that is coming out today. I would call before going in to see if they have the display setup. I wasted 30 minutes at lunch for the employees to look around to see where it was (they couldn't find it, even though the box was shown as delivered in-store).

Almost perfect but it won't fit our porch light fixture which barely accommodates this. I predict a new porch light fixture in my near future.

Keep up the freakin' awesome work, you are one of the reasons I'm still active on AT.

 

[luv2liv]

i see the deal from gizmodo and really want to get the hub too. however, i only need motion sensor, not lights. so when i added 1 sensor, $25 off obviously didnt work 🙁 guess i can wait a little longer

 

[Kaido]

Almost perfect but it won't fit our porch light fixture which barely accommodates this. I predict a new porch light fixture in my near future.

Keep up the freakin' awesome work, you are one of the reasons I'm still active on AT.

Hmm. Well, you could get a Zwave wire-in module (requires work) or a screw-in adapter (bulky) to add control (although neither are listed as Wink Certified yet, so it'd be a diceroll). Or if it's protected, an indoor bulb would probably work fine. I have a small porch light fixture as well and I've always just purchased the el-cheapo indoor bulbs since it has some glass around the fixture. GE's smallest Link bulb is a little bulky, but would this fit in your existing fixture?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-Link-...cted-Home-LED-Light-Bulb-PSB19-SW27/205404345

Haha thanks. We're like the Walking Dead, only the Neffing Dead :awe:

 

[Kaido]

i see the deal from gizmodo and really want to get the hub too. however, i only need motion sensor, not lights. so when i added 1 sensor, $25 off obviously didnt work 🙁 guess i can wait a little longer

Yeah, I would hold off until they get a fuller list of Wink Certified hardware. There's a ton of stuff out from Lutron & others that will probably be listed on their product support webpage soon enough. I'm anxious to jump on it tonight, so I'll do a quick video review as soon as I get my hands on the system.

 

[Kaido]

Stopped at another Home Depot store on the way home. They had a ton of Wink stuff, but only (expensive) TCP lights. The HD website says the GE Link lights aren't coming until early September, drat! I also found out some more information about the GE Link lights - they do have their own ZigBee hub, called a Link Hub: (nothing confusing about that lol)

http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-Link-Gateway-Hub-PQHUB-WH01/205404444

The $50 starter kit has a GE Link Hub & 2 GE Link bulbs, NOT a Wink Hub. HOWEVER! The bulbs themselves are ZigBee-enabled, so they can work directly with the Wink Hub without needing the GE Link Hub. The HD guy had no idea when the store was getting them, but the website showed September 1st to Sept 3rd. They did have a ton of other (expensive) products:

* Wink Hub (standalone)
* TCP Connected lights (I believe a 2-pack & a 3-pack, with their own transmitter base)
* Chamberlain garage door opener
* Chamberlain universal garage door adapter
* Honeywell thermostat
* Kidde wireless smoke alarms
* Quirky smart propane tank scale

I would have picked up the TCP bulbs, but the 2-pack was like $80 and I wasn't sure if their Lighting Gateway could be taken out of the equation or not (the GE Link Hub can be removed since the Wink Hub is also a ZigBee base). I really wanted to walk out of the store with some gear, but the endcap wasn't even setup yet (it was all in a cart that I picked through & grabbed a passing employee to talk to) and everything was pretty expensive & not really what I wanted. I guess I could pick up some extra smoke alarms, but it wasn't clear if Home Depot was doing the $50/$25/$1 deal or not. I have a third Home Depot that I'll be near later tonight, so I'll see what they've got going on.

 

[Kaido]

I am thinking about getting a new front door lock since mine broke & I'm stuck using the deadbolt right now (don't rob me!); I really like the Lockitron, but it's still not available (pre-order), and it costs about the same as a fancy smart deadbolt anyway: ($179)

https://lockitron.com/

The Schlage & Kwikset Zwave deadbolts both have excellent reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/Schlage-BE469N...dp/B00AGK9KUU/

http://www.amazon.com/Kwikset-SmartC...dp/B004EKOPOE/

Not sure if I'm ready to spend $200 on a deadbolt though, haha. I also did end up getting a garage at my rental, although the garage door opener is broke (I have to open it manually); the Chamberlain model that is Wink-compatible is about $230 at Home Depot, which seems pretty reasonable:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Chamberl...-Opener-with-MyQ-Technology-HD930EV/203951235

I could also use some extra smoke detectors; Nest's models are down to $99 (pricecut due to the faulty "wave" sensor feature) & I'll do a pricecheck on the Kidde stuff when I swing by Home Depot #3 later tonight. They did have some other interesting things like the Quirky Refuel, which is a smart propane meter, but it costs $50, which is what an entire spare propane tank WITH FUEL costs:

https://www.quirky.com/shop/732

I'd rather just buy a spare tank & keep it for when the main one runs out so I can swap it out instead of having to manage an extra (expensive) electronic gizmo. Also, I am excited to see how well the Wink Hub & the v2 apps fare in terms of user reviews. Previous Quirky products get pretty lousy reviews; the Aros A/C unit only has 3 stars on Amazon out of nearly 150 reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/Quirky-Aros-Sm...dp/B00IDXGIAC/

So, time will tell. I'd really like to get my hands on those lights, but barring that, I'll just buy some compatible Z-wave outlets or something once the product list fills out...

 

[arod]

That's the rub.... getting into the system is very cheap but the critical flaw of all these systems to date is the high prices of the devices you put around the home because device manufacturers don't put wireless in their cheap product lines and those generally sell in volume now. Who is going to pay $200 for a wifi deadbolt when you can get one w/o for $20?

When this technology becomes so universal that it's just in every product then you will see the home automation space take off. The question is which standard will get there first.

I had a veralite and bought a few devices but ended up selling them all.... we are still a few years away from anything being remotely good/cheap enough to work.

Something else I learned doing this is the whole aspect of using your phone to control your devices gets old really fast. Where the real power of home automation happens is with sensors and geofencing or by connecting to the internet and accessing data (weather info for example).

 

[Kaido]

That's the rub.... getting into the system is very cheap but the critical flaw of all these systems to date is the high prices of the devices you put around the home because device manufacturers don't put wireless in their cheap product lines and those generally sell in volume now. Who is going to pay $200 for a wifi deadbolt when you can get one w/o for $20?

When this technology becomes so universal that it's just in every product then you will see the home automation space take off. The question is which standard will get there first.

I had a veralite and bought a few devices but ended up selling them all.... we are still a few years away from anything being remotely good/cheap enough to work.

Something else I learned doing this is the whole aspect of using your phone to control your devices gets old really fast. Where the real power of home automation happens is with sensors and geofencing or by connecting to the internet and accessing data (weather info for example).

Yeah, and that's what's held me off from investing in anything so far. I was planning on getting a gen-2 INSTEON system (they added RF) this summer anyway, so this came along at just the right time. My hangup with INSTEON is that while the dual-band equipment did get better reviews, they still weren't stellar, so if I can buy a Wink Hub for $1, then that's not too bad! But since the $15 lights aren't available (was going to be LED bulbs anyway), nothing else really makes financial sense to get in for cheap right now, just to start tinkering.

 

[Kaido]

Zatz Not Funny has a quick look:

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2014-07/wink-hub-quick-look/

Leviton's Zwave outlets & switches are supported:

http://store.leviton.com/ZWave-Energy-Efficient/b/2934190011

Bali (sold through Home Depot) has some neat motorized window shades:

http://homedepot.baliblinds.com/motorized_treatments/index.jsp

 

[Whackjack]

I picked one of these Wink hubs up from Home Depot earlier. I was hoping to replace my Veralite hub in favor of something more user friendly. I already have a Yale front door lock and a Trane thermostat, both of which are z-wave.
So far, I have not figured out how to add arbitrary z-wave devices to the Wink hub. The Android app only allows you to add known supported devices. So far, it's looking like this is a wasted $50. 🙁

 

[Kneedragger]

Well after thinking about it a bit more I think I'm going to wait. The only module I'm interested in is the Spotter Device. From digging around on the internet the SmartThings automation hardware devices have better reviews. I know the hub cost more but it seems supported well..

 

[LegendKiller]

I picked one of these Wink hubs up from Home Depot earlier. I was hoping to replace my Veralite hub in favor of something more user friendly. I already have a Yale front door lock and a Trane thermostat, both of which are z-wave.
So far, I have not figured out how to add arbitrary z-wave devices to the Wink hub. The Android app only allows you to add known supported devices. So far, it's looking like this is a wasted $50. 🙁

Hmmm - I have a bunch of Jasco switches, some xfinity home security stuff, a schlage lock, and a trane thermostat - I am not sure if all of these are supported but not being able to just add devices bothers me.

 

[Kaido]

I picked one of these Wink hubs up from Home Depot earlier. I was hoping to replace my Veralite hub in favor of something more user friendly. I already have a Yale front door lock and a Trane thermostat, both of which are z-wave.
So far, I have not figured out how to add arbitrary z-wave devices to the Wink hub. The Android app only allows you to add known supported devices. So far, it's looking like this is a wasted $50. 🙁

That's what I'm reading so far as well - unless it's Wink Certified (i.e. tested & in their database), there's currently no way to add it. Some of the articles I read mentioned testing unsupported devices on your own, but didn't say how to do that, so if you have a lot of Zwave stuff, I'd definitely hold off. I think the power of Wink is going to be buying things within the Wink Certified ecosystem. That will probably prove to be a headache to people with an existing inventory of Zwave products, at least until their compatibility gets fleshed out more, including a method to add "unsupported" products.

 

[Kaido]

Well after thinking about it a bit more I think I'm going to wait. The only module I'm interested in is the Spotter Device. From digging around on the internet the SmartThings automation hardware devices have better reviews. I know the hub cost more but it seems supported well..

The downside is that the Spotter has horrible reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/Quirky-PSPT1-W...dp/B00GN92MTE/

So does the Aros (also from Quirky). Their gen-1 hardware history doesn't look too good. That's why I wanted to pick up the Wink Hub with a couple of GE Link LED lights - easy way to jump in & test the waters for under $50; if it's junk, then at least I'll still have usable LED bulbs out of the deal!

 

[Kaido]

Hmmm - I have a bunch of Jasco switches, some xfinity home security stuff, a schlage lock, and a trane thermostat - I am not sure if all of these are supported but not being able to just add devices bothers me.

Yes, and I think the wording is going to throw a lot of people off - they advertise support for Zwave Plus, ZigBee, etc. but if you look more closely at their product pages (on their official website, Amazon, and Home Depot pages), it does state that you need Wink Certified gear to make it work. That confusion is already playing a negative role in the online product reviews. Right at the top of the Amazon page, it says:

Uses Wi-Fi, Zig bee, Z-Wave and proprietary radios to enable remote connectivity via smart phones

And then in the product details:

Look for Products that Have These Seals

Products that are Wink App Ready have Wink technology built in and can connect directly to the Wink app without the assistance of the Wink HUB.

Wink App Compatible products require the Wink HUB to connect to the Wink app. The Wink HUB allows them to speak the same wireless language, so you can easily control them— and customize their interactions—all from the Wink app.

So while it does technically clearly state that you need to buy products with Wink seals on them, the top also says that it has Zigbee, Z-wave, etc. support and there's no little asterisk with the catch that they have to be "Wink Certified" Zwave or Zigbee devices. imo they need to fix that pronto.

I also think they need to add something like a "Add an unsupported device at your own risk" button in the software...I know a lot of people with a large investment in existing smarthome equipment (as mentioned, Zwave-enabled deadbolts are all around $200, not cheap!) and everyone is always looking for a better hub to control things with because none of the existing ones on the market are very good. Plus I have some other questions:

1. What about support for Windows phones? And custom Android devices, such as Kindles & Blackberries?
2. Any ability to control from a computer, even via something like a web interface?
3. Any kind of tutorial or help manual online?
4. Any additional details on radio revisions & specs, such as Bluetooth Low Power?

 

[shabby]

That's the rub.... getting into the system is very cheap but the critical flaw of all these systems to date is the high prices of the devices you put around the home because device manufacturers don't put wireless in their cheap product lines and those generally sell in volume now. Who is going to pay $200 for a wifi deadbolt when you can get one w/o for $20?

When this technology becomes so universal that it's just in every product then you will see the home automation space take off. The question is which standard will get there first.

Until this starts getting installed by the builder in every house i really don't see this taking off. Im not replacing 80 bulbs in my house with smart bulbs, im not paying $60 for one smart dimmer when i need around 10 or $80 for an anal bead looking smart surge protector.

 

[LegendKiller]

Until this starts getting installed by the builder in every house i really don't see this taking off. Im not replacing 80 bulbs in my house with smart bulbs, im not paying $60 for one smart dimmer when i need around 10 or $80 for an anal bead looking smart surge protector.

My house had Nexia built in. We love it, have about a dozen switches, a couple lamp plug ins, the Trane thermostat, the Schlage deadbolt, and a free year of Nexia. Got off that free year and am looking for something w/o the monthly fee.

They put the system into the homes built after 2012, probably 30 homes in my development and a few hundred other homes in my area.

 

[lsd]

I picked one of these Wink hubs up from Home Depot earlier. I was hoping to replace my Veralite hub in favor of something more user friendly. I already have a Yale front door lock and a Trane thermostat, both of which are z-wave.
So far, I have not figured out how to add arbitrary z-wave devices to the Wink hub. The Android app only allows you to add known supported devices. So far, it's looking like this is a wasted $50. 🙁

Ouch that sucks. I actually went to Home Depot to pick one up today and luckily they didn't have any around. I'm in the same boat as you, I hate the Vera UI and was looking to buy this to replace it.

 

[Kaido]

My house had Nexia built in. We love it, have about a dozen switches, a couple lamp plug ins, the Trane thermostat, the Schlage deadbolt, and a free year of Nexia. Got off that free year and am looking for something w/o the monthly fee.

They put the system into the homes built after 2012, probably 30 homes in my development and a few hundred other homes in my area.

Nice! Have you had any major hiccups with the system, or has it been fairly hassle-free?

 

[Kaido]

Ouch that sucks. I actually went to Home Depot to pick one up today and luckily they didn't have any around. I'm in the same boat as you, I hate the Vera UI and was looking to buy this to replace it.

Yeah, I would wait until they make a more official announcement on non-Wink Certified equipment. I am anxious to hear as well...there's a zillion neat products out there awaiting us :biggrin:

 

[Kaido]

So the catches so far:

1. Only works with "Wink Certified" equipment. Does not have generic Zwave support. Zwave has a spotty history of support across their device range anyway, so I think the certification is an annoying but good thing to have, because it's their way of guaranteeing that a device will work in their ecosystem. So this is really important to know: Wink only works with Wink Certified devices. That may change in the future, as far as adding uncertified devices, but for now - buy compatible hardware, bottom line. Don't expect your legacy Zwave/ZigBee/etc. gear to play nice unless it's been updated with Wink Certification.

2. Currently no support for web-based control or Windows phones. They have an open API, so I'm hoping that will change down the line. Right now, this is an Android or Apple mobile-based system, that's it.

3. Despite the Wink Hub being cheap, everything else is somewhat expensive - $190 for an electronic deadbolt, $230 for a garage door opener, etc. The GE Link Lights were part of the good deal ($15/ea for the 60w-equivalent indoor LED models), but those aren't out until Aug/Sept. I have roughly 40 outlets in my house, which would be a $600 investment with the GE Link lights - pricey, but $600 not only gets me whole-house control of my lighting (on/off/dim, plus automation control for timers & stuff) but also a lower cost of operation (estimated $1.45 annual cost per bulb, so $58 a year) plus an advertised 22-year operational life. Versus say the TCL kit they're selling now, which works out to about $40 per bulb, which would come out to a whopping $1600 for my house - literally a thousand dollars more. All when paired with a $50 hub, haha. No thanks, I'll wait! 😉

And on the flip side, I already have bulb preferences. I really like my 100w Philips LED bulbs because they fill up the room quite well, and I like my 40w Philips SlimStyle LED bulbs for reading because they have a nice color & diffusion, and only cost like five bucks. So I'd really rather have a wire-in module of some sort so that I can stick with generic bulbs anyway, so I'm waiting to see what the best Wink Compatible options for that will be (smart outlets, smart wallplate switches, etc.). I know Leviton & Lutron already have some stuff that is certified, so I'll see what all is available over the next few weeks.

 

[Kaido]

Press release from Wink:

http://www.winkapp.com/press/wink-debuts-broadest-collection-of-connected-home-products

Interesting note on the smoke alarms:

For Kidde, partnering with Wink means offering customers even more simplicity and accessibility. "Kidde has been a leader in combining innovative technology with life safety products to offer simple solutions for homeowners," said Jim Ward, president of Kidde Fire Safety, a global leader of fire safety products. "Kidde's Wireless Talking alarms link together so that when one sounds, they all sound, and thanks to Wink, they can also alert users who aren't home. Wink's focus on simplicity and accessibility makes it a great fit for homeowners. We look forward to working with them, The Home Depot and other leading brands on this new solution."

 

[Whackjack]

I got some more info from the Wink support team. Here is the conversation I had with them so far:
Me:

I have a couple z-wave devices (Yale lock and Trane thermostat) installed
in my home already that I'm looking to link to the Wink Hub. However, the
Android Wink app does not give an option to scan for or add unofficial
devices.
Is there a way to link these devices to the Wink hub?

Support:

Unfortunately, the Wink Hub won't be able to work with your lock or thermostat. You would technically be able to pair them to your hub, but you'd have no functional control over those devices.

Thanks for reaching out! If you have any other questions about Wink, don't hesitate to reach out.

Me:

Thanks for the quick reply. Are there any plans to support other arbitrary
z-wave devices in the near future?

Support:

As it turns out, I might have misinformed you. I had a chat with one of our engineers about it, and it sounds like they have it set so that if you pair a generic z-wave device that's either a binary light, a light dimmer, a thermostat, or a lock, it will work, and give you a generic interface to use. We're not officially supporting those generic devices, but it sounds like it's doable. Also, if you wanted to give me the brands and model numbers for the products that you're looking to use, it would help the Wink team decide which products to partner with in the future.

I still have an outstanding question about how to actually do this via the Android app, but this is starting to look promising.

 

[Kaido]

I got some more info from the Wink support team. Here is the conversation I had with them so far

Thanks! I'm in contact with their team as well; I'm hoping they open it up just a wee bit more (specifically a web GUI for computers & Windows phones, and the ability to easily tinker with non-certified devices). It's a great system...inexpensive, readily-available, uses embedded Linux, open API...just needs a few tweaks to become a ton more useful! Also found a great article about the company here:

https://twitter.com/benkaufman/status/481153323563638784

To answer some of the questions that are out there:

Wink is not owned by GE. it’s wholly owned by Quirky, and operated as a Standalone entity (Wink has their own office, leadership team, etc).

Wink is no longer an app for just Quirky & GE products- it’s an app for all brands and all products.

Wink does not (and will not) favor Quirky, we will be treated like any other brand/partner.

So basically, Wink is a subsidiary of Quirky and is not owned by GE. Quirky is treated as a certified partner, that's it. I think if they're smart and jump on whatever Android@Home is going to be renamed to, as well as Apple's HomeKit, and add a few extra features, they're going to have a killer product on their hands.

I know they're getting flak right now about not supporting every device on the market, but in reality, that is a Good Thing - that means that if it has the Wink Certified sticker on the box, then it's going to work. Just read some user reviews of Veralite or check out Indigo's support list:

http://www.indigodomo.com/devices/#zwave

They even have a caveat right on their webpage:

Below you'll find a list of Z-Wave devices that have been reported to work to some degree with Indigo. Z-Wave, being a licensed protocol, has many different vendors supplying multiple device types. The Z-Wave devices in the list below have been tested either by Indigo Domotics or by one of our users. You can click on the device to see any details that have been reported by users of these devices. Other devices may well work because of the way Z-Wave defines device functionality (we often don't have to specifically add support for basic functionality).

If you already have a device that isn't on the list, try to add it and report your findings to us via the "Submit Device Information" button on the "Edit Device Settings..." dialog or if you couldn't get it to sync in Indigo, post the information on on our forums.

Some vendors are OEMs - that is, they'll manufacture devices that other vendors will sell under their own brand. In that case, we've attempted to also show the other vendor's model ID in the list below. If you don't see a Z-Wave device in the list below, post a question about it on our forums. Discontinued devices are highlighted.

So basically, Zwave device support is hit or miss, and they're pretty much relying on users to provide feedback & details for third-party devices. Not super confidence inspiring. So that's why I don't think it's fair for Wink to be knocked for not supporting generic devices - the reality is that Zwave support is mixed to begin with, and there's so many third-party devices that it's really up to those manufacturers to get certified if they want to be part of the Wink ecosystem. That make sense to me, and gives me a lot more confidence in spending hundreds of dollars on equipment that I know will work because it's certified for the system I purchased. The reason this stuff hasn't taken off in the past is reliability (and cost & complexity, but really, a lot of stuff just doesn't work or doesn't work 100% of the time - try explaining to your wife why your $500 smart lights investment only works 90% of the time & has a delay in sending commands, haha).

 

[Whackjack]

In response to my question about how to add z-wave devices using the Android app, I received this reply:

I've never actually paired a device that we're not partnering with, but you should be able to access Z-Wave Controls by going to the "Hubs" section, opening the sidebar by tapping those three little dots in the upper righthand corner, selecting your hub under "Devices", and then scrolling down to select the Z-Wave Controls option. You can then select the "Inclusion Mode" button, and do whatever is needed on the device's end to pair it with your hub.

This does get me to the correct screens, but I have not yet succeeded in getting my Yale lock to join the network. There are a few other options in the "Z-Wave Controls":

• Reset Z-Wave
• Learning Mode
• Shift Controller
• Inclusion Mode
• Exclusion Mode

I'm not sure what "Learning Mode" or "Shift Controller" do, as documentation is rather sparse currently. I'll make sure to post any new updates or discoveries.