The Windows XP flame war must end!

Psychoholic · Jun 25, 2001

<< I think its a shame some people would just have him leave, hard to have an argument when you just want to kick out the opposing side, eh? >>

I wouldn't have him leave. Much to my mother's chagrin, I enjoy playing with my food.

HansXP · Jun 25, 2001

<< but in reality it is more like 10 computers due to hardware changes (since each activation is based on hardware >>

No, each activation is for one computer. You can call up MS and tell them you changed your hardware, and they will give you a new code. I think you can probably even just call up MS for each of your computers, and tell them you just changed your hardware.

<< I think MS would give me hell for this... >>

Probably because you're doing something illegal.

<< Bottom line is that WinXP looks like a 300 dollar gui update (from the win2k standpoint). >>

There are other features that have been added, but I'll agree that it probably isn't worth it for W2K users to upgrade.

HansXP · Jun 25, 2001

<< I wouldn't have him leave. Much to my mother's chagrin, I enjoy playing with my food. >>

LMAO!!!!!!

BlvdKing · Jun 25, 2001

This activation thing is way out of hand. I go to a school that has a Microsoft agreement. Our entire school uses one key to activate the software. Imagine the hell we would have to go through if all this activation FUD was true. When Windows XP is free for download on our server, there will probably be one key for every machine on campus. Imagine that!

HansXP · Jun 25, 2001

Big businesses (including schools) don't have to deal with activation. Only consumers.

Psychoholic · Jun 25, 2001

Thank you HansXP. It would seem we have a few people here who have no clue what a corporate license is.

Oh, how the uninformed swing prematurely......

CocaCola5 · Jun 25, 2001

<< Corporations like Microsoft can't freeload off of it like with BSD. >>

How does Microsoft freeload with a product they have created??? If they price themselves out of the market that is their fault. However it's their creation, and they can do with it as the wish. If you developed a software package and sold it to the public, would you be freeloading???

Whatever, call it what you want. Whatever the case, Microsoft is scared to death the GPL will become the standard of public software. This is a fact, just look at what they're doing in DC.

BlvdKing · Jun 25, 2001

<< Thank you HansXP. It would seem we have a few people here who have no clue what a corporate license is.

Oh, how the uninformed swing prematurely...... >>

It's nice that I don't have to worry about activation that is upsetting so many.

Shadow07 · Jun 25, 2001

Yeah. Most poeple have forgotten about the Open License versions. They do not and will not have the activation feature in the Enterprise versions. Now, to qualify for this, you will need to purchase a minimum of 5 licenses, but the Activation Feature will not be there. I should know. I have the Office XP Professional Open License version.

Psychoholic · Jun 25, 2001

CocaCola5, can I just can you Coke????.....

You still haven't told me how Microsoft is freeloading. Selling a product they have created isn't freeloading. Taking an open-source OS such as Linux slightly modifying it and packing it up in a box and selling it would be closer to freeloading than what Microsoft does. I know that Linux is open-source and that Linus Torvalds wanted it that way...yada,yada,yada.... but how can you say Microsoft is freeloading and deny this as a more plain example???

Sounds to me like you just don't want to buy Microsoft's products and would rather use Linux or warez versions. Good for you and that's your perogative, but don't come crying to me when Microsoft tries to find ways to help stop the pirating of their products.

Would you want to work for free???

As far as what Microsoft is doing in D.C., it is no different than what any other corporation does. It's called lobbying, and it's been happening for years. All corporations try to protect their interests, it's how they survive. If Linux ever survives, one day Red Hat may be lobbying for something in D.C., would that be wrong???

With all these evil plots floating around I'm beginning to believe this is the set of the X-Files.

BreakApart · Jun 25, 2001

Some of you people are living in denial... (sorry, it had to be said)

You want proof that MS and Intel are trying to track you...

-Ability to read the Intel Serial# off your CPU and send to another party.-(what in G%$s name do they need my CPUs serial number for? except perhaps to track me) Sure they "fixed" this, but why did they EVER think this would be a good idea? Anyone?

-Activation reading my system config.-(WTF, do they need or have the "right" to know about my Computer config?) Nobody has answered this one... Heck, this weekend i re-built my system 4 times testing video cards and Hard-drives, guess MS would have disabled my system. To bad for me for testing my computer performance, etc. Can you amagine Anadtech getting XP disabled while they were testing some computers... lol

-There has already been talk about the mp3 disable software. Ok, so maybe it gets turned off, maybe not. BUT, WTH "right" does MS have to even consider blocking/ruining my MP3's?? And, don't give me the song and dance that they never were going too block mp3s... No answer i bet...

One day we have "please enter the serial number", then we have "activation codes" that send my info to MS, and be disabled if they don't like me and my system testing, then we have "can you guess where this is leading?"...

If anyone thinks this is leading in a positive direction you are being fooled...

MS is/was richer than GOD last year, and now they "need" this "activation system" to prevent piracy. Seems to me Piracy didn't hurt 15-billion dollar Gates last year?

Good Luck, we will need it...

Windows2000 is my favorite OS, so i don't actually fit as an anti-MSer. I just don't like the direction this is all going...

IdahoB · Jun 25, 2001

Wow guys, this is an increadibly detailed thread for an OS none of you own (shock statement - remember, the gold disk it isn't actually out).

Sorry! Just wanted to rumple a few feathers before diving in.

1. Activation - Not a real issue - MS is primarily concerned about money, and it's not going to waste resources by forcing all us techie types to bitch at them everytime we upgrade our graphics cards. We'll all be able to install, reconfigure and piss around with our machines pretty much as we like, but just avoid giving out your PID to all your mates. It's quite clever of them, actually - the real goal of activation is to make you contact their database to register, stopping the same PID being used by loads of warez copies.

2. Spyware - Why on earth are you concerned about Microsoft "knowing" your hardware configuration? Firstly, there is no reason for Microsoft to store this vast quantity of info since they can't use it for marketing without breaking their privacy agreements, but more importantly, it's of no use to them whatsoever without us registering WinXP first - as knowning what hardware is on my PC is useless info if they don't know who "I" am! Look at it from their perspective - they want control over the products offered, not the users themselves - they'll incur to much wrath from people like... well... people like us.

3. The Raw Sockets thing. I'd go into some length, but fortunately I don't have to: The Register Discusses Raw Sockets.

4. GUI - As I remember, I hated Windows 95s GUI when it came out. Now the notion of going back to Win 3.1 makes me shudder. Besides, you can customise it. And for those who can't work that out, it will suit them more because it's designed with novice users in mind.

5. The one thing I'm not sure about is the OSs attitude to third party API stuff - have to wait to make a judgement on that.

C'mon anti-MSers - I'm not particulary fond of MS but I'll admit to myself that XP looks pretty good - and the rumours of serious issues are pretty baseless.

n0cmonkey · Jun 25, 2001

<<

<<

<< lucidguy, I agree with you about the need for GNU GPL. I am not a Linux junkie but I agree linux need to have this as a wall to protect itself from Microsoft. Microsoft will cheat and steal to get what they want. >>

But the BSD's (in general) have been around since before linux... The GPL was never there to protect them. What did they do wrong? >>

The GPL will stop the pirating of public software by corporations in ways BSD can't. The license basically says that if you use GPL software in your product you MUST share the source code to that product. Corporations like Microsoft can't freeload off of it like with BSD. Microsoft wants to freeload but they don't want to share their source code. >>

You know for a fact this has never happened? That no one CAN get away with it? Give me a break. No one is "pirating" BSD code. Code using the new BSD licence cannot be pirated and therefor is free. Go back to /.

Psychoholic · Jun 25, 2001

BreakApart, have you ever come across any protection scheme worse than the one Microsoft is proposing. I have and next to some of the copy protection schemes I have seen the proposal by Microsoft is easier than many of the others.

<< MS is/was richer than GOD last year, and now they "need" this "activation system" to prevent piracy. Seems to me Piracy didn't hurt 15-billion dollar Gates last year? >>

I didn't realize that illegal was tied to the fact how much a someone made. How much do you make a year??? What if I feel you make more than an adaquate amount, therefore it's okay to steal your car??? After all if I lived in some areas of the world and you made even $500, that would be more money than God in my eyes.

How do you know how much money God has anyway. Those gold sidewalks and always present angels with extravagant robes ring up pretty quick.

RedBeard0531 · Jun 25, 2001

Read This it should clear things up a lot. I just hope people take the time to read it.

..|.. (^_^) ..|..

lucidguy · Jun 25, 2001

<< One day we have "please enter the serial number", then we have "activation codes" that send my info to MS, and be disabled if they don't like me and my system testing, then we have "can you guess where this is leading?"...

If anyone thinks this is leading in a positive direction you are being fooled... >>

This is a very appropriate place to quote a very elegant, very moving and very chilling poem by a prominent Pastor.

-----

First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out ? because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the communists
and I did not speak out ? because I was not a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out ? because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me ?
and by then there was no one left to speak out for me.

- Pastor Martin Niemöller

-----

The greatest violations of our most essential freedoms often begin with the seemingly unimportant violations of our peripheral freedoms. The rest becomes a slippery slope that leads to lock-in, loss of choice and slavery.

If Microsoft's activation technology, Secure Audio Path media encryption technology, media licensing, .Net infrastructure, etc, make you uncomfortable, and seem like violations of your freedoms, then make this known to Microsoft. Vote with your dollars and do not purchase XP.

If you like XP's GUI very much, but you don't like much else about it, then purchase a copy of WindowBlinds, install it on any copy of Windows, and you will get the advantages of the exact same GUI. Many of the exact same themes will be made available both for XP and standalone WindowBlinds - after all, StarDock, the company that made WindowBlinds, provides the software that implements skinning support in XP.

Or migrate to Linux and use one of the countless XP-inspired or Aqua-inspired themes that are already available, or soon will be made available, for an extensive selection of windowmanagers, including Sawfish, Enlightenment, Blackbox, Icewm, WindowMaker, and countless others.

The fact is that, when you come right down to it, Windows activation offers absolutely no advantages and no benefits for the consumer. Secure Audio Path offers absolutely no advantages and no benefits for the consumer. Media licensing offers absolutely no advantages and no benefits for the consumer. Keeping your applications and data on a .Net server as opposed to your own hard disk offers absolutely no advantages and no benefits for the consumer. None of these things are meant to be advantageous for the consumer - in fact, they are meant to make life more difficult and inconvenient for consumer, and naturally enough, they are meant to exponentially improve upon Microsoft's failing revenue streams.

Why would you purchase a product that offers no advantages and no benefits for you?

EDIT: Tiny little grammatical correction.

CocaCola5 · Jun 25, 2001

<< CocaCola5, can I just can you Coke????.....

You still haven't told me how Microsoft is freeloading. Selling a product they have created isn't freeloading. Taking an open-source OS such as Linux slightly modifying it and packing it up in a box and selling it would be closer to freeloading than what Microsoft does. I know that Linux is open-source and that Linus Torvalds wanted it that way...yada,yada,yada.... but how can you say Microsoft is freeloading and deny this as a more plain example???

Sounds to me like you just don't want to buy Microsoft's products and would rather use Linux or warez versions. Good for you and that's your perogative, but don't come crying to me when Microsoft tries to find ways to help stop the pirating of their products.

Would you want to work for free???

As far as what Microsoft is doing in D.C., it is no different than what any other corporation does. It's called lobbying, and it's been happening for years. All corporations try to protect their interests, it's how they survive. If Linux ever survives, one day Red Hat may be lobbying for something in D.C., would that be wrong???

With all these evil plots floating around I'm beginning to believe this is the set of the X-Files. >>

The private sector has taken public research and technology and integrating it into their product for the longest time. There is nothing wrong with it, but I still call it freeloading. Microsoft is no different. The reason why I am targeting Microsoft is because they are pursuing a vicious campaign to de-legitimize the GPL which is mean and unfair. As to lobbying, I know what lobbying is, the life oxygen of any government. I have no problem with lobbying, but in this case I think Microsoft is way off target, they are back to their paranoid ways again just like with the old IBM.

RedBeard0531 · Jun 25, 2001

Shut up lucrid. You don't know what you are Talking about.

Could some one please hack into Lucrid's "Super-secure" linux box and shut him the F*CK up! Thank you!

CocaCola5 · Jun 25, 2001

Btw, if you think XP is just about recovering lost revenues in the form of piracy you're highly brain scrubbed by the media.

n0cmonkey · Jun 25, 2001

<< Shut up lucrid. You don't know what you are Talking about.

Could some one please hack into Lucrid's "Super-secure" linux box and shut him the F*CK up! Thank you! >>

Linux is like MS, there is no such thing as a super-secure linux box...

BreakApart · Jun 25, 2001

<< BreakApart, have you ever come across any protection scheme worse than the one Microsoft is proposing. I have and next to some of the copy protection schemes I have seen the proposal by Microsoft is easier than many of the others. >>

For corporate use etc, i can under stand this "activation", big money OS-(servers) don't normally get re-installed 4 times in (1) weekend. And changing hardware also doesn't happen often. I was refurring to Home use. MS will have alot of families on the phone for hours, just wait...

<< I didn't realize that illegal was tied to the fact how much a someone made. How much do you make a year??? What if I feel you make more than an adaquate amount, therefore it's okay to steal your car??? After all if I lived in some areas of the world and you made even $500, that would be more money than God in my eyes. >>

This has got to be the silliest reply i have EVER seen. BTW, you just described socialism, is this what you intended?
Let me change something from your reply:

<< "What if I feel you make more than an adaquate amount, therefore it's okay to steal your car?" >>

"What if MS feels you installed more than an adaquate amount, therefore it's okay to disable your OS??? Sound familiar???

Now to answer...
My statement was not to imply he didn't earn it or deserve more. But the simple fact is Microsoft makes MOST of their money on business purchases. Servers, and large scale OEM purchases are where MS gets their money. So how does attacking the home user help make money??? How does disabling my OS after i upgrade my Video Card and Sound Card help business? My point was piracy didn't hurt MS money machine last year.

Besides my real point was they want your info not some silly piracy crap...

Psychoholic · Jun 25, 2001

<< The private sector has taken public research and technology and integrating it into their product for the longest time. There is nothing wrong with it, but I still call it freeloading. Microsoft is no different. >>

I still fail to see why you say charging for a product they have created is freeloading. According to your logic engineers shouldn't charge for designing a project.

<< The reason why I am targeting Microsoft is because they are pursuing a vicious campaign to de-legitimize the GPL which is mean and unfair. >>

Why is that "mean and unfair"[/b]??? They should be allowed to try and protect their intrests. If you think that Red Hat or some other Linux distribution company wouldn't do everything could to protect their intrests, you're extremely niave.

I've heard a lot of talk about freedom from the "evils" of Microsoft in this thread. I find it very ironic that there are some here that would call for an abolishment of a corporations freedom to lobby to stop the "evil empire" of Microsoft. Maybe lucidguy should think about freedoms you would have the government take away before he starts his history lesson.

It is kind of funny, however, that lucidguy, actually can make some rational sense once in a while. If you don't like Microsoft or their way of making money, don't buy their product. That doesn't mean pirate a copy, because unlike some of us here think, that is illegal. Not only is it illegal, but pirated copies won't increase the amount of sales of alternative operating systems. If you want Microsoft to notice this "evil" you are talking about you have to show them numbers of a substitute for their product. Doing this is also a freedom, just like Microsoft's right to lobby.

IdahoB · Jun 25, 2001

Did any of you morons even notice my post?? For Christ's sake - they don't get your info unless you GIVE IT TO THEM.

BreakApart · Jun 25, 2001

*my 2 cents*

After reading this entire thread 2 times.

I noticed a pattern, those who get mad at lucidguy must do so from guilt or embarrasment. He simply states his view point like the rest of us, yet people get all defensive and freakout, and attack him. Why???
This makes no sense to me...

If you disagree with lucidguy, then fine disagree or ignore him.
But, these goofballs that talk about hacking him to "silence the infadel" you people are scaring me...

Psychoholic · Jun 25, 2001

<< My point was piracy didn't hurt MS money machine last year.

<<
So you're saying that Microsoft lost no money last year due to piracy, is that correct???

<< Besides my real point was they want your info not some silly piracy crap... >>

Someone else brought this up in an earlier post before I had the chance but you do realize that your hardware information is stored as a hash correct??? How is that going to give Microsoft information again???

Oh yeah, one more quick thing:

<< What if MS feels you installed more than an adaquate amount, therefore it's okay to disable your OS??? Sound familiar??? >>

Nice try, but when you install a copy of the OS in a manner that is illegal with the agreement, i.e. on more than the licensed number of computers, they have a right to prevent you from doing this. It's called a <Dr. Evil voice and finger motions>Legal Agreement</Dr. Evil voice and finger motions>. You agreed to it by opening the package unless you using a pirated version which, as we all should know, usually doesn't come with proper documentation but instead other issues.

If you don't agree to abide by the <Dr. Evil voice and finger motions>Legal Agreement</Dr. Evil voice and finger motions>, you should explore the options I outlined in my previous post.

The Windows XP flame war must end!

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