The Windows XP flame war must end!

[narzy]

<< There were a series of Register news stories about this fiasco.

I will edit this post if I can find links to them.

EDIT: Here's a good article. If you can see through the author's Microsoft-bribed pro-Microsoft attitude, you will be able to register the facts: Namely, that VMware Inc.'s VMware Workstation, Roxio's Easy CD Creator 5.0 and earlier, Laplink.com's LapLink Professional, Sierra Print Artist 4.0 do not work under XP. >>




these software packages that you mention work very closely with the system, and yes some software will have to be updated to run on windows XP, this is the software developers fault NOT microsofts. microsoft let people prepare for the Windows XP migration well in advance if developers dont want to use it that is fine, thier software is crap when the OS is updated.

 

[HansXP]

<< 1. Smart tags, which form unauthorized derivative works of websites you and your friends wrote and programmed. This will be ON by default, and most people will have no idea how to turn it OFF. >>



No, Microsoft has stated several times this will be disabled by default, IF it is even implemented in the final version.



<< 2. In-built remote administration and firewall. Do you really want to entrust the security of your machine to a company that can't keep its own network secure from Russian hackers? >>



Should we talk about how Apache got hacked?? Nothing is 100% secure. Besides, you can disable the built in firewall and install your own if you want.



<< 3. Activation is just a &quot;first step&quot; so to speak. In the near future, one of those MANDATORY Windows Updates will &quot;upgrade&quot; WinXP to send your full hardware configuration to Microsoft network, so that Microsoft will know which &quot;digitally signed&quot; drivers to send you should driver updates become available for your hardware. How would Windows Update know how to update your drivers without having your full hardware configuration to begin with? >>



You're paranoid. They AREN'T planning this, and anyway, what would be so bad if Windows Update got the latest drivers so grandma didn't have to?




<< 4. Already, undocumented API calls are breaking third party CD burning apps, third party firewall apps, third party media player apps. Roxio plain does not work on WinXP. Expect this situation to get worse, not better, as Microsoft tries to eliminate the competition through maintaining anticompetitive exclusive knowledge on the full specs of WinXP APIs. >>



More paranoia....



<< 5. Most people will NOT know how to turn the Teletubby GUI off, eventually leading them to pot or crack addiction. >>



WTF! Can you at least try to stick to your &quot;facts&quot; instead of just sprouting PURE BS?

 

[lucidguy]

<< No, Microsoft has stated several times this will be disabled by default >>



Microsoft also had a witness (Bill Gates) lie on the witness stand, and Microsft submitted fradulent evidence to a court of law.

If you are the kind of guy who believes everything that Microsoft says, I have a bridge in New York that I would like to sell you.

EDIT: Corrected typo.

 

[HansXP]

Right...and what actual evidence do you have of that?

 

[n0cmonkey]

<<

<< 1. Smart tags, which form unauthorized derivative works of websites you and your friends wrote and programmed. This will be ON by default, and most people will have no idea how to turn it OFF. >>



No, Microsoft has stated several times this will be disabled by default, IF it is even implemented in the final version.



<< 2. In-built remote administration and firewall. Do you really want to entrust the security of your machine to a company that can't keep its own network secure from Russian hackers? >>



Should we talk about how Apache got hacked?? Nothing is 100% secure. Besides, you can disable the built in firewall and install your own if you want.



<< 3. Activation is just a &quot;first step&quot; so to speak. In the near future, one of those MANDATORY Windows Updates will &quot;upgrade&quot; WinXP to send your full hardware configuration to Microsoft network, so that Microsoft will know which &quot;digitally signed&quot; drivers to send you should driver updates become available for your hardware. How would Windows Update know how to update your drivers without having your full hardware configuration to begin with? >>



You're paranoid. They AREN'T planning this, and anyway, what would be so bad if Windows Update got the latest drivers so grandma didn't have to?




<< 4. Already, undocumented API calls are breaking third party CD burning apps, third party firewall apps, third party media player apps. Roxio plain does not work on WinXP. Expect this situation to get worse, not better, as Microsoft tries to eliminate the competition through maintaining anticompetitive exclusive knowledge on the full specs of WinXP APIs. >>



More paranoia....



<< 5. Most people will NOT know how to turn the Teletubby GUI off, eventually leading them to pot or crack addiction. >>



WTF! Can you at least try to stick to your &quot;facts&quot; instead of just sprouting PURE BS? >>



Apache got hacked because of stupid users. This is the number 1 reason for hacks working. Smart tags are just a bad idea to begin with. And microsoft has no need to know the hardware I own. There is no reason for them to know the hardware ANYONE ownes, no matter how clueless the user is.

 

[HansXP]

<< And microsoft has no need to know the hardware I own. There is no reason for them to know the hardware ANYONE ownes, no matter how clueless the user is. >>



And they don't. This doesn't give them any information about the hardware you own.

But just to ask, what is the problem if they know what hardware you own? Oh my god, they know I have a Creative Live! 5.1 soundcard!
I BETTER RUN BEFORE THEY COME AND GET ME!!

 

[Dyngoe]

Hi Y'all,

Does anyone else feel like the debate has gone on enough? I, like most of you, have tried alot of different OS and I have an oppinion on each. I believe XP has benefits and deficiencies. My concern, however, is the precident XP sets and how it's new features affect us all. Besides automobiles and guns, software is now the only other profduct to require personal information to be supplied to a company. Think about it! Am I saying to run and hide from big brother? No, but in a land of laws and lawyers this type of practice could be just the start of what's to come. Yes, I am concerned about the security leaks for the average user. You all must remember, we are a small portion of society today and while we may be able to stop anything Bill and his minions think up, we must remember there are thousands of people out there suffering with winME for example. XP is not spyware yet, but it has more potential than any other OS before it. XP is a solid OS that is coming no matter what. Many people will enjoy it's new &quot;bloated&quot; gui like they did with 98 and ME. But, we, the technically informed, should hold to a higher scientific standard. Stop arguing over better or worse and present the facts. We all did it in highschool and college(or you will) and we need to get the information out. That all said, I hope the next posts on this topic inform me, as well as us all, because I'm honestly concerned the truth may be as bad as some suggest.
As Always,
D

 

[lucidguy]

<< Right...and what actual evidence do you have of that? >>



It is my pleasure to show you the seedier side of Microsoft.

Here is one of countless new articles discussing how Bll Gates lied during his deposition. For the impatient amongst you, I will excerpt the relevant bit here:



<< When Justice Department lawyer David Boies asked Gates about an alleged illegal offer Microsoft proposed with rival Netscape during a June 1995 meeting, Gates said: &quot;I wasn't involved in setting up the meeting.&quot; Boies later showed e-mail from Gates days before the meeting suggesting &quot;a very powerful deal of some kind we can do with Netscape.&quot; >>



As for the bit about fradulent evidence, that one is even more interesting, if only for Microsoft's nerve in thinking that they can get away with behavior to this extent. Here is a news article discussing Microsoft's illegal behavior, written by an obviously pro-Microsoft journalist. Again, I will excerpt the meaty bits here.



<< At issue: a videotape Microsoft submitted into evidence that, according to Microsoft Senior Vice-President James Allchin, showed that a government's program designed to remove Microsoft's Internet Explorer from Windows 98 made Windows run slower and less efficiently. ..... But under cross-examination by Justice Dept. lawyer David Boies, Allchin couldn't say for sure that the slow computer shown in the videotape had the government program installed in it. In fact, Allchin conceded, the computer in the videotape seemed to be different than those used in the testing. &quot;From what I see here, they filmed the wrong system,&quot; Allchin said. >>



I rest my case.

 

[lucidguy]

<< But just to ask, what is the problem if they know what hardware you own? >>



Because it's called &quot;illegal search and seizure&quot;. The contents of my private household are my business and no one else's.

 

[n0cmonkey]

<<

<< And microsoft has no need to know the hardware I own. There is no reason for them to know the hardware ANYONE ownes, no matter how clueless the user is. >>



And they don't. This doesn't give them any information about the hardware you own.

But just to ask, what is the problem if they know what hardware you own? Oh my god, they know I have a Creative Live! 5.1 soundcard!
I BETTER RUN BEFORE THEY COME AND GET ME!! >>



Yet. I was specifically referring to the comment about XP possibly alerting you of new drivers for my hardware. You are taking this to the extreme, farther than even I took it. There is no real problem of them knowing my hardware, as long as I have the CHOICE. If I cared who knew what hardware I owned and what hardware I do not I would not have added any rigs. I chose to put that information somewhere so it is ok. The information is mine to give out. I personally do not want to give Microsoft information about my computer, I want the choice to not tell them.

 

[HansXP]

<< Yet. I was specifically referring to the comment about XP possibly alerting you of new drivers for my hardware. You are taking this to the extreme, farther than even I took it. There is no real problem of them knowing my hardware, as long as I have the CHOICE. If I cared who knew what hardware I owned and what hardware I do not I would not have added any rigs. I chose to put that information somewhere so it is ok. The information is mine to give out. I personally do not want to give Microsoft information about my computer, I want the choice to not tell them. [/]q

And you do have the choice.

A) You have the choice whether to buy XP
B) You have the choice whether to go to the Windows Update site and/or have their Updater running in the background.



<< Because it's called &quot;illegal search and seizure&quot;. The contents of my private household are my business and no one else's. >>



No, it isn't, because you aren't being forced to use the product. Stop trolling.

 

[n0cmonkey]

<<

<< Yet. I was specifically referring to the comment about XP possibly alerting you of new drivers for my hardware. You are taking this to the extreme, farther than even I took it. There is no real problem of them knowing my hardware, as long as I have the CHOICE. If I cared who knew what hardware I owned and what hardware I do not I would not have added any rigs. I chose to put that information somewhere so it is ok. The information is mine to give out. I personally do not want to give Microsoft information about my computer, I want the choice to not tell them. [/]q

And you do have the choice.

A) You have the choice whether to buy XP
B) You have the choice whether to go to the Windows Update site and/or have their Updater running in the background.



<< Because it's called &quot;illegal search and seizure&quot;. The contents of my private household are my business and no one else's. >>



No, it isn't, because you aren't being forced to use the product. Stop trolling. >>



I do have the choice to buy or not buy XP, but there are many people who do not. How many people are fluent in several operating systems and can do everything with just one? Only the people who do nothing too intensive with thier computer. I don't limit myself to one operating system even though it does almost everything I want/need. As far as the update page is there another way to install updates? Does microsoft still believe in ftp and manually adding patches (it would probably be wierd adding a patch that isnt source now )? If they do good, I really don't know. Well I will read any responses to this but I will consider this a closed subject. We have no confirmed reports yet. The MS fanatics will support it, the open source/privacy fanatics with damn it, those of us that just want good software will want to be able to select it or de-select it, without giving up what could br a decent operating system, as we see fit. And if I do use XP(seriously considering it to the surprise of my friends...) I will just configure my firewall for optimum privacy and protection (block everything but http traffic ).

 

[HansXP]

<< I do have the choice to buy or not buy XP, but there are many people who do not. How many people are fluent in several operating systems and can do everything with just one? Only the people who do nothing too intensive with thier computer. I don't limit myself to one operating system even though it does almost everything I want/need. As far as the update page is there another way to install updates? Does microsoft still believe in ftp and manually adding patches (it would probably be wierd adding a patch that isnt source now )? If they do good, I really don't know. Well I will read any responses to this but I will consider this a closed subject. We have no confirmed reports yet. The MS fanatics will support it, the open source/privacy fanatics with damn it, those of us that just want good software will want to be able to select it or de-select it, without giving up what could br a decent operating system, as we see fit. And if I do use XP(seriously considering it to the surprise of my friends...) I will just configure my firewall for optimum privacy and protection (block everything but http traffic ). >>



Yes, you can still manually install patches by downloading them without Windows Update. That's how most us geeks do it

And yes, most people are &quot;fluent&quot; in 9x and could continue using that instead of upgrading. So it is TOTALLY their choice.

BTW, I don't think everyone supporting XP is an MS fanatic.

 

[n0cmonkey]

<<

<< I do have the choice to buy or not buy XP, but there are many people who do not. How many people are fluent in several operating systems and can do everything with just one? Only the people who do nothing too intensive with thier computer. I don't limit myself to one operating system even though it does almost everything I want/need. As far as the update page is there another way to install updates? Does microsoft still believe in ftp and manually adding patches (it would probably be wierd adding a patch that isnt source now )? If they do good, I really don't know. Well I will read any responses to this but I will consider this a closed subject. We have no confirmed reports yet. The MS fanatics will support it, the open source/privacy fanatics with damn it, those of us that just want good software will want to be able to select it or de-select it, without giving up what could br a decent operating system, as we see fit. And if I do use XP(seriously considering it to the surprise of my friends...) I will just configure my firewall for optimum privacy and protection (block everything but http traffic ). >>



Yes, you can still manually install patches by downloading them without Windows Update. That's how most us geeks do it

And yes, most people are &quot;fluent&quot; in 9x and could continue using that instead of upgrading. So it is TOTALLY their choice.

BTW, I don't think everyone supporting XP is an MS fanatic. >>



Eventually MS will phase out 98 just like they did 95. There will be hardware supported in XP that will not be supported in 98, and oems will ship XP machines but not 98 machines. Hell I can't find an NT or 98 machine now. And I did not mean that the only people supporting XP are fanatics, only the people supporting the possibility of MS adding the functionality of knowing what hardware you use without you having an option to de-select that functionality and still be able to use the OS and its other benefits. This isn't really a big deal since there is no information about this out there. We should probably just drop this speculation...

 

[HansXP]

<< Eventually MS will phase out 98 just like they did 95. There will be hardware supported in XP that will not be supported in 98, and oems will ship XP machines but not 98 machines. Hell I can't find an NT or 98 machine now. And I did not mean that the only people supporting XP are fanatics, only the people supporting the possibility of MS adding the functionality of knowing what hardware you use without you having an option to de-select that functionality and still be able to use the OS and its other benefits. This isn't really a big deal since there is no information about this out there. We should probably just drop this speculation... >>



Yes, my basic goal in responding to many of these posts has been to kill a bunch of needless speculation. Let's hope others follow your lead

 

[n0cmonkey]

<<

<< Eventually MS will phase out 98 just like they did 95. There will be hardware supported in XP that will not be supported in 98, and oems will ship XP machines but not 98 machines. Hell I can't find an NT or 98 machine now. And I did not mean that the only people supporting XP are fanatics, only the people supporting the possibility of MS adding the functionality of knowing what hardware you use without you having an option to de-select that functionality and still be able to use the OS and its other benefits. This isn't really a big deal since there is no information about this out there. We should probably just drop this speculation... >>



Yes, my basic goal in responding to many of these posts has been to kill a bunch of needless speculation. Let's hope others follow your lead >>



Some speculation is good. But all in all this has gone too far. For things like this there are usually good points and bad points and not everyone will be happy. We will just have to see when XP is released and then bitch... There is always something to bitch about

 

[HansXP]

<< For things like this there are usually good points and bad points and not everyone will be happy. We will just have to see when XP is released and then bitch... There is always something to bitch about >>



Hehe, there sure is

 

[odz]

Windows XP is incrementalism at it's best. We are currently discussing whether or not it is 'ok' for MS to know what hardware the user has, and I wonder what privacy issues we will be discussing when the next Windows comes out...perhaps it will be whether it is ok for Microsoft to sell info about our computers to advertising companies. I imagine the argument will be something like, &quot;Well it's not hurting me, and besides, Windows XP collected hardware info.&quot;

 

[HansXP]

<< Windows XP is incrementalism at it's best. We are currently discussing whether or not it is 'ok' for MS to know what hardware the user has, and I wonder what privacy issues we will be discussing when the next Windows comes out...perhaps it will be whether it is ok for Microsoft to sell info about our computers to advertising companies. I imagine the argument will be something like, &quot;Well it's not hurting me, and besides, Windows XP collected hardware info.&quot; >>



No, it won't be, because XP doesn't do anything of the kind. As has been stated by several people, there is NO WAY Microsoft can find out your hardware.

 

[n0cmonkey]

<< Windows XP is incrementalism at it's best. We are currently discussing whether or not it is 'ok' for MS to know what hardware the user has, and I wonder what privacy issues we will be discussing when the next Windows comes out...perhaps it will be whether it is ok for Microsoft to sell info about our computers to advertising companies. I imagine the argument will be something like, &quot;Well it's not hurting me, and besides, Windows XP collected hardware info.&quot; >>



If this starts happening I am buying stock in apple. I dont use windows right now so Im safe.. Are you? Sometimes I think I am too paranoid.. Im just glad Im not the psycho paranoid type...

 

[HansXP]

<< If this starts happening I am buying stock in apple. I dont use windows right now so Im safe.. Are you? Sometimes I think I am too paranoid.. Im just glad Im not the psycho paranoid type... >>



Don't worry about it There is nothing in Windows that will find all the kiddie pr0n on your D: drive and tell the authorities

 

[RedBadger93]

<< There were a series of Register news stories about this fiasco.

I will edit this post if I can find links to them.

EDIT: Here's a good article. If you can see through the author's Microsoft-bribed pro-Microsoft attitude, you will be able to register the facts: Namely, that VMware Inc.'s VMware Workstation, Roxio's Easy CD Creator 5.0 and earlier, Laplink.com's LapLink Professional, Sierra Print Artist 4.0 do not work under XP. >>



Well part of WindowsXP cd recording has built in Roxio features, which are licensed from Roxio (so I'm sure they are making some money off each copy).

Don't believe me? Then in WindowsXP, right click on your cd recorder icon, go to properties, then to &quot;recording&quot;, then at the bottom you will see Roxio's name mentioned there.

Like the original post, I too am dang sick of all the lies spread about XP.

And like with any new operating system, new drivers are usually required as it is. Its not like its anything new.

 

[CocaCola5]

Theres been so much talk about piracy but I really don't think XP is about piracy of MS's OS software. Piracy has always been a problem but it has never really been a bottom line issue for MS. Lets face it, you either buy their software legitimately or you don't, users of pirated versions aren't part of MS's customer base to begin with). If MS revenue goes downhill, no one will blame it on piracy(maybe Linux?). MS knows this. So they should be honest and come out and say what these features are really for.

 

[n0cmonkey]

<<

<< If this starts happening I am buying stock in apple. I dont use windows right now so Im safe.. Are you? Sometimes I think I am too paranoid.. Im just glad Im not the psycho paranoid type... >>



Don't worry about it There is nothing in Windows that will find all the kiddie pr0n on your D: drive and tell the authorities >>



That's wrong man. If you had just said pr0n I would agree but going to the kiddie pr0n on a reply to my post is insulting. But because of the emoticon I will take it as a joke. Just remember kiddie p0rn is not funny.

 

[RichieZ]

RE: XP cartoonish version of W2k. I've run every version since 2462 (well up to 2491, haven't got all of 2498 yet), lots of nice little touches that show thought went into the program. But I'll stick with W2KPro for the forseable future.