The Wii U is dead in its current form, admits Nintendo. But what now?

[SaurusX]

Honestly I feel even the Gamecube got better third party support. Soul Calibur and Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes were better than any non 1st or 2nd party N64 games. It is almost like the industry conspired to screw Nintendo out of revenge or something back in the late 90's.

The Gamecube definitely had a good share of 3rd party exclusives. Hell, it snagged Resident Evil 4 in the beginning and Capcom only made the PS2 port because of the vast user base there.

However, Nintendo made it policy to not help out their 3rd parties when it came to squeezing out every bit of performance from their hardware. They went out of the way to keep certain things secret. That and the 3rd parties getting raked over the coals with licensing fees and arbitrary rules pushed away all of the other developers. Why deal with that when you have up-and-comers Sony and Microsoft doing the opposite and going out of their way to court them?

 

[artemicion]

According to recent reports, Mario Kart 8 will NOT use the gamepad as an independent second screen in multiplayer. No 5 player multiplayer a la Sonic & All Stars Racing Transformed. No 2 player multiplayer with one person on the TV and the second person on the gamepad.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/editorial/37037/mario-kart-8s-use-of-the-gamepad-is-disappointing

If this is true, F@%@ Nintendo. What a bunch of freaking incompetent morons. Hardware AND software wise now.

 

[poofyhairguy]

According to recent reports, Mario Kart 8 will NOT use the gamepad as an independent second screen in multiplayer. No 5 player multiplayer a la Sonic & All Stars Racing Transformed. No 2 player multiplayer with one person on the TV and the second person on the gamepad.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/editorial/37037/mario-kart-8s-use-of-the-gamepad-is-disappointing

If this is true, F@%@ Nintendo. What a bunch of freaking incompetent morons. Hardware AND software wise now.

Wow. Pretty bad.

I have a question for the group: could Nintendo just drop the controller completely? Or would that mean a new console?

 

[Arkaign]

According to recent reports, Mario Kart 8 will NOT use the gamepad as an independent second screen in multiplayer. No 5 player multiplayer a la Sonic & All Stars Racing Transformed. No 2 player multiplayer with one person on the TV and the second person on the gamepad.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/editorial/37037/mario-kart-8s-use-of-the-gamepad-is-disappointing

If this is true, F@%@ Nintendo. What a bunch of freaking incompetent morons. Hardware AND software wise now.

Eh? That's a bit extreme. I've played SM3DW and a few other U titles, and didn't GAF about the pad honestly. I could see how some people would like it, but it just seems gimmicky as hell.

I wish they'd drop it and just offer it separately. Console for $129, tablet for $79 option, and maybe patch the games to support 3DS as well (though the super low resolution would make that tough).

Perhaps the choice to skip the 5th screen option may be a clue that they know their tablet idea utterly failed in the most absolute way. This is like raging against Microsoft because Halo 5 doesn't use the Kinect. If they can get all of their prime franchise games to skip the tablet, it opens the door for a barebones version to sell at a dramatically lower cost. I think it might be enough even to save the U should it be priced low enough in combination with a series of great games.

But no, god forbid they don't use a gimmicky feature that has been completely rejected by the vast majority of the marketplace. People don't buy home consoles to stare at tiny handheld screens, it's just asinine.

 

[artemicion]

Eh? That's a bit extreme. I've played SM3DW and a few other U titles, and didn't GAF about the pad honestly. I could see how some people would like it, but it just seems gimmicky as hell.

I wish they'd drop it and just offer it separately. Console for $129, tablet for $79 option, and maybe patch the games to support 3DS as well (though the super low resolution would make that tough).

Perhaps the choice to skip the 5th screen option may be a clue that they know their tablet idea utterly failed in the most absolute way. This is like raging against Microsoft because Halo 5 doesn't use the Kinect. If they can get all of their prime franchise games to skip the tablet, it opens the door for a barebones version to sell at a dramatically lower cost. I think it might be enough even to save the U should it be priced low enough in combination with a series of great games.

But no, god forbid they don't use a gimmicky feature that has been completely rejected by the vast majority of the marketplace. People don't buy home consoles to stare at tiny handheld screens, it's just asinine.

It's not an issue of whether the gamepad was a mistake from the get-go. It probably was, given Nintendo's inability to utilize it. But right now the issue is that the gamepad is already there, all Wii U owners have it, so if Nintendo had any brains they'd try to make the most of it and try to differentiate themselves from the competition.

Personally, I had high hopes for MK8 because of the possibility of two player multiplayer with both players having their own screens. I had high hopes of some co-op shooter games using the split screens as well. I just think having two independent screens in multiplayer is something that adds some real value to the gaming experience and could have been something that the Wii U could do that other consoles could not, but instead apparently Nintendo has no freaking clue on how to maximize the value of what they currently have.

Edit: even if Nintendo had plans on ditching the gamepad (which I doubt), they should have at LEAST made two-screen multiplayer an OPTION on MK8.

 

[Arkaign]

We'll have to see the reviews.

With the weak CPU and moderate GPU, it's possible that allocating significant resources to the tablet screen was just unfeasible without severely stepping down the visual quality.

 

[exar333]

Nintendo did win the last generation of consoles by a large margin, so I don't know if NES-era mistakes still hurt them today. Honestly I believe Sony was going to make a console eventually, Nintendo snub or not. You read about their ego back then ("the Gameboy should have been a Sony device") and it seemed inevitable. What has hurt Nintendo the last two generations with third parties is hardware power.

But those old decisions certainly hurt the N64. Entire genres of games that were very popular for the SNES and NES (such as JRPGs and Metroidvania side scrollers) were barely represented on the N64 but were all over the Saturn and PS1. Honestly those Rare games might have been the greatest 3D adventure games ever, but that doesn't help when I really want to play a JRPG. Heck I have never even gotten every star in SM64, I got bored with that genre before I finished through the first game of its type!!!!

Honestly I feel even the Gamecube got better third party support. Soul Calibur and Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes were better than any non 1st or 2nd party N64 games. It is almost like the industry conspired to screw Nintendo out of revenge or something back in the late 90's.

The only way Nintendo 'won' was by pure console sales. Attachment rates for X360 and PS3 were MUCH higher, and really only Nintendo made money from the Wii, 3rd party companies got screwed. The Wii also peaked early and was really weak the last few years, limping into this gen really hurt it. Conversely, I would say Sony ended really strong with PS3 and continued that momentum. The X360 was pretty consistent throughout...

 

[drbrock]

I don't think the second screen option is gone. IGN stated that it wasn't clear if they gave up on it or not.

Wii U is still a great machine. The graphics look insane for Mario Kart and it runs 1080p 60fps. For Nintendo's art direction this game is perfect and I don't think Xbox or PS4 could have done a better game. It it were made to be realistic like Forza then there would be a huge difference but for this type of style it looks great.

 

[poofyhairguy]

The only way Nintendo 'won' was by pure console sales. Attachment rates for X360 and PS3 were MUCH higher, and really only Nintendo made money from the Wii, 3rd party companies got screwed.

Console sales and financial success is usually how winners of console generations are declared. By that metric the Wii was a huge success. It made Nintendo a ton of money and never sold at a loss.

As far as third party companies, the majority of that failure was their fault. The established players never took the platform seriously, and they kept cranking out shovelware or poorly done ports while bitching about the console's power the whole time. Early on when there was less competition some had success, but over time that formula doomed their chances with the console.

The Wii was also a failure with hardcore gamers, but it never even tried to court them.

In fact, I think that was the REAL success of the Wii: it showed that "hardcore" COD/XBL/etc. gamers are a minority in the industry. They are a minority that will pay the bills via the attach rate or whatever, but most of the market want a different gaming experience.

You could almost say the Wii was foreshadowing for mobile gaming and devices like the Fire TV. Just like with the Wii, many major established studies didn't take mobile gaming seriously so many of the big success stories have been smaller studios and rising companies (like Rovio).

If some of the AAA game developers would have embraced the future the Wii showed everyone- there is a place for underpowered platforms- then maybe they would be in a better position to profit from things like iOS, Android and the Fire TV today. But too many of them are "hard core" gamers too, so they scoff at these devices instead of embrace the blue oceans of new customers.

 

[purbeast0]

declaring anyone "winners" of any "console war" is pretty retarded as a concept.

 

[poofyhairguy]

declaring anyone "winners" of any "console war" is pretty retarded as a concept.

Console success has been compared since the second generation of consoles:

 

[Aikouka]

The graphics look insane for Mario Kart and it runs 1080p 60fps.

I watched a video on my phone, and it probably didn't help that it appeared like they zoomed in a bit and I was close to the screen, but there were definitely some rather apparent aliasing issues. Sure, the rest of the game looks fine, but I'm one of those anal people that can't stand jaggies.

For Nintendo's art direction this game is perfect and I don't think Xbox or PS4 could have done a better game. It it were made to be realistic like Forza then there would be a huge difference but for this type of style it looks great.

We could always get another Sonic Racing game, which would (most likely) be made for the PS4 and X1. The only thing is... I definitely think the overall aesthetic is a little bit better in Mario Kart than it is in Sonic Racing. The problem is that the power-ups feel too generic in Sonic, but the courses are fine. The only problem is that most people probably don't know anything other than Sonic! "What's Golden Axe?" "What's Burning Rangers?" "What's NiGHTS?" Heck... even I had no idea what Burning Rangers was when I played Sonic Racing!

 

[cmdrdredd]

According to recent reports, Mario Kart 8 will NOT use the gamepad as an independent second screen in multiplayer. No 5 player multiplayer a la Sonic & All Stars Racing Transformed. No 2 player multiplayer with one person on the TV and the second person on the gamepad.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/editorial/37037/mario-kart-8s-use-of-the-gamepad-is-disappointing

If this is true, F@%@ Nintendo. What a bunch of freaking incompetent morons. Hardware AND software wise now.

Also, this article just seems like Hideki Konno(Producer for Mario Kart 8) is saying people are too dumb to make tracks if they gave the tools to create them.

This is the eighth game in the series and when we work on a Mario Kart title, we work on courses and we create them and then we work on them again, and again, and again, and we revise until we come up with something that we think is going to be fun for everyone to play over and over again. So we have a lot of confidence in our ability to do so, but we understand what a tough challenge it is to create those courses.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/04/03/why-mario-kart-8-doesnt-let-players-design-tracks

 

[exdeath]

Wii's success was a fluke. You saw it on the living room tables of every non gamer in the country because it was the cool new gadgety thing to have like the latest iPhone or the first on the block to have a DVD or bluray player. How many people had to have one just to brag about having one in a time when they were impossible to find? It's amazing how many people bought one and never bought any games for it besides the Wii Sports waggle demos that it came with.

For most it was just a trendy table top accent and nothing more.

 

[drbrock]

Wii's success was a fluke. You saw it on the living room tables of every non gamer in the country because it was the cool new gadgety thing to have like the latest iPhone or the first on the block to have a DVD or bluray player. How many people had to have one just to brag about having one in a time when they were impossible to find? It's amazing how many people bought one and never bought any games for it besides the Wii Sports waggle demos that it came with.

For most it was just a trendy table top accent and nothing more.

Wii was the single greatest console innovation since the NES.

 

[zerocool84]

Wii was a great party system. After the first party releases, I eventually sold it because like everyone else, I got bored of it.

 

[desura]

So I'm starting to warm a little to the Wii U. Yeah, it got a rep as being kinda low-powered, but the important thing is that it supports dx11 features, right (not directx 11 itself, but the same graphical rendering features of it)? That's a big deal. There is a noticable jump going from dx9 to dx11 games IMO.

And like all videos I've seen show that it can run 360-level titles just fine. So it can deliver probably something comparable to my gaming pc

 

[exdeath]

Wii was the single greatest console innovation since the NES.

Again...

Gimmick != innovation

Wii is a GameCube with a waggle stick.

Most games worth having a Wii for play best on Pro controller.

I loathe having to shake my controller in a masturbating fashion to MAYBE jump or MAYBE fall in the hole and die if it doesn't quite register.

 

[desura]

Watching this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOYDqkchM0o

first mario kart I've been excited for in a while. IMO the best kart was 64...double dash was too spammy and the next one I skipped.

This looks good. And with good shader use, really looks nice.

 

[lamedude]

Honestly I believe Sony was going to make a console eventually, Nintendo snub or not. You read about their ego back then ("the Gameboy should have been a Sony device") and it seemed inevitable.

You take away the Nintendo dishonored us you take away the driving force.

And achieving that meant Ohga removing Kutaragi from Sony, fearing that the widespread internal opposition to the project might crush Kutaragi’s resolve. “There was a huge resistance inside the company to actually being in the videogames business at all,” explains Harrison. “The main reason why the Sony brand wasn’t really used in the early marketing of PlayStation was not necessarily out of choice, but it was because Sony’s old guard was scared that it was going to destroy this wonderful, venerable, 50-yearold brand. They saw Nintendo and Sega as toys, so why on Earth would they join the toy business? That changed a bit after we delivered 90 per cent of the company’s profit for a few years.”

I don't think a beleaguered Sony would be able to mount a successful attack against the DC/GCN since those consoles had no major flaws to exploit.

 

[purbeast0]

Watching this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOYDqkchM0o

first mario kart I've been excited for in a while. IMO the best kart was 64...double dash was too spammy and the next one I skipped.

This looks good. And with good shader use, really looks nice.

last good mario kart was the first one, then possibly the first ds one. mario kart 64 is when it started to go to shit and the game started to cater to noobs and they made it so easy. since then it's become easier and easier with every iteration (that i've played at least). the game has gotten so bad i have no interest in the franchise though. the game has absolutely no sense of speed either. that video you posted has no sense of speed too, just looks so slow and boring.

 

[exar333]

Console sales and financial success is usually how winners of console generations are declared. By that metric the Wii was a huge success. It made Nintendo a ton of money and never sold at a loss.

As far as third party companies, the majority of that failure was their fault. The established players never took the platform seriously, and they kept cranking out shovelware or poorly done ports while bitching about the console's power the whole time. Early on when there was less competition some had success, but over time that formula doomed their chances with the console.

The Wii was also a failure with hardcore gamers, but it never even tried to court them.

In fact, I think that was the REAL success of the Wii: it showed that "hardcore" COD/XBL/etc. gamers are a minority in the industry. They are a minority that will pay the bills via the attach rate or whatever, but most of the market want a different gaming experience.

You could almost say the Wii was foreshadowing for mobile gaming and devices like the Fire TV. Just like with the Wii, many major established studies didn't take mobile gaming seriously so many of the big success stories have been smaller studios and rising companies (like Rovio).

If some of the AAA game developers would have embraced the future the Wii showed everyone- there is a place for underpowered platforms- then maybe they would be in a better position to profit from things like iOS, Android and the Fire TV today. But too many of them are "hard core" gamers too, so they scoff at these devices instead of embrace the blue oceans of new customers.

Yeah, not sure about this. It was a 'fad', plain and simple. People bought them, and they mostly collected dust. Those same people now are gaming on their iPads and have forgotten their Wii, and probably never got more than 2-3 Wii party games (that mostly sucked and got boring).

It was gimmicky and the controller really sucked for most games. The nunchuk was required for a lot of games (like Mario Kart) because the Wii mote was so bad.

Successful sales =! great system.

Is the Toyota Corolla the best car because it sells the most? Hardly...

 

[sxr7171]

Wow. Pretty bad.

I have a question for the group: could Nintendo just drop the controller completely? Or would that mean a new console?

Why not? I think you could buy a WiiU and throw that pad away and play pretty much all games. Any games that "need" the pad can be patched to run without it.

 

[sxr7171]

Eh? That's a bit extreme. I've played SM3DW and a few other U titles, and didn't GAF about the pad honestly. I could see how some people would like it, but it just seems gimmicky as hell.

I wish they'd drop it and just offer it separately. Console for $129, tablet for $79 option, and maybe patch the games to support 3DS as well (though the super low resolution would make that tough).

Perhaps the choice to skip the 5th screen option may be a clue that they know their tablet idea utterly failed in the most absolute way. This is like raging against Microsoft because Halo 5 doesn't use the Kinect. If they can get all of their prime franchise games to skip the tablet, it opens the door for a barebones version to sell at a dramatically lower cost. I think it might be enough even to save the U should it be priced low enough in combination with a series of great games.

But no, god forbid they don't use a gimmicky feature that has been completely rejected by the vast majority of the marketplace. People don't buy home consoles to stare at tiny handheld screens, it's just asinine.

It would save the WiiU with not an ounce of doubt in my mind.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Yeah, not sure about this. It was a 'fad', plain and simple. People bought them, and they mostly collected dust. Those same people now are gaming on their iPads and have forgotten their Wii, and probably never got more than 2-3 Wii party games (that mostly sucked and got boring).

You actually made my point for me there at then end when you said "those same people now are gaming on their iPads."

I am not trying to claim that the Wii is still an often used console, we all know that isn't the case. I am also not saying it was a gateway drug for new hardcore gamers- the number of titles people bought for the console really doesn't matter.

Instead it was, along with the DS really, the first piece of major gaming hardware since the Atari 2600 meant to directly target the casual gaming segment that succeeded.

The Wii proved these people exist, proved that the casual market was larger than the hardcore market, and that legacy of the casual gamer lives on in the mobile world today.

Prior to the Wii (and honestly Farmville), no one thought you could make a living cranking out casual games. The closest gaming got to mainstream was normal people playing the AAA of the nerdy franchises like Halo, GTA and WOW.

Now Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Angry Birds, Fruit Ninja, etc. are household names, and sequels to these mobile games sell WAY more copies than COD 8 or GTA 10 or whatever we are up to.

That is the legacy of the Wii- the hard cores, much to their chagrin, no longer run the show.

I think that is why the Wii (and mobile gaming) attracts so much hate online. Many hard core gamers prefered it when the whole market was basically a boys club.