The War on the People aka The War on Drugs

[ICyourNipple]

Impact55

Many overdoses are caused by the fact that the drugs are of varying levels of purity and potency. Decriminalization would end the accidental overdose problem because you would know what you are getting. The problem with making some drugs illegal is there is bound to be special interests involved when determining what to make illegal and legal.

Example: the FDA is about to ban phenylpropanolamine (PPA) aka Norephedrine. They accuse this drug of causing strokes which is an outright lie. It would take a massive overdose to cause this. I use this drug often before my workouts, it is a great stimulant that increases muscle fiber recruitment and causes mild euphoria. You can find it in many OTC supplements that are more effective than prescription fat loss drugs. Once again, conflict of interests with the pharmaceutical industry. The FDA has been trying to ban ephedrine for years, and I fear now that norephedrine has been defeated, ephedrine is next on the list.

If they ban ephedrine, even caffiene would not be out of the question. This is not a joke, but rather my honest opinion.

 

[Impact55]

<< Go back to your 'drug' of choice >>


Go back to your star trek magazine you nerd.

 

[ICyourNipple]

IBhacknU

What are you talking about? What do I not understand?

 

[freak-o-a-l]

First off, drugs are not good in any way. True, you are only harming yourself but how could you have that little respect for yourself? And if you have that little respect for yourself, how could you respect anyone else? Drugs kill people, whether you like it or not. I've seen what crack, heroine, achohol, and yes even pot can do to people and it's very sad. I hear so many people saying, &quot;They did it to themselves, it's completely their fault&quot;, I agree with this somewhat in that people do need to learn personal responsibility but I beleive some of these drug addicts are screaming for help or feel like they have no freinds and because people simply shrug them off, they sink into heavy drug use and maybe eventually even death. Please people, you have to start caring about other people. You are not too good to help someone. Try being meek for a little bit, you'll feel better because of it.
Also, I have a question for all of you legalization and decriminalization supporters. If you have children or plan on having children someday, how would you feel about them doing crack, pot, alchohol, etc? Would you just let them go because &quot;they did it to themselves, it's entirely their fault&quot;?

 

[Impact55]

There is a difference between crack and pot.

 

[ICyourNipple]

freak-o-a-l

I have responded to similar responses to yours already, and I have to believe that you didn't read this entire thread. No one can give a decent answer to some of the questions I posed in earlier posts.

&quot;If you have children or plan on having children someday, how would you feel about them doing crack, pot, alchohol, etc? Would you just let them go because &quot;they did it to themselves, it's entirely their fault&quot;?&quot;

I plan to bring my kids up in a positive environment, and hopefully with either myself or my future wife with them at almost all times when they are young. I will teach them my values, and the cold hard facts. If neccessary, I will teach them that civil disobedience is something we must unfortunately stand for.

Most of the people who argue this issue introduce new arguments for my case with each post.

 

[IBhacknU]

<< Go back to your star trek magazine you nerd >>

you are so far off

 

[Impact55]

You are so getting off to star trek.

 

[Ariel]

Why can't we all just get along? (Group Hug)

 

[BigSmooth]

<< drugs are not good in any way >>
I'm sorry, but I could cite a TON of medical literature that lauds marijuana's medical uses.
It has been used to treat the symptoms of a very wide variety of diseases.

<< Drugs kill people, whether you like it or not. I've seen what crack, heroine, achohol, and yes even pot can do to people. >>
There has never been a recorded case of marijuana killing a human being, unless you start talking about lung cancer etc. THC from marijuana can NOT kill you.

<< If you have children or plan on having children someday, how would you feel about them doing crack, pot, alchohol, etc? >>
freak-o-a-l, I don't mean to sound rude, but that sentence itself just reeks of a lack of education on this subject (or belief in false information). Grouping &quot;crack, pot and alcohol&quot; together is a massive generalization and inherently points out the flaws in the way you and many other people feel about drugs.
Crack is a man-made substance that is incredibly addictive and can cause death, violence and withdrawal symptoms.
Alcohol is also addictive, terrible for your body, and can also cause death, violence, and withdrawal symptoms. It is also legal.
Marijuana is also psychologically addictive. I am not denying that. It is MUCH less addictive than crack or even cigarettes, however. It is also not as physically addictive, and therefore withdrawal symptoms are less severe. The smoke is bad for your body, but you cannot die from the substance itself. It does not make people violent. It is a naturally occurring substance.

As for your &quot;what if your children took it&quot; question, I wouldn't want my kids doing any of it, no. But ONLY because the TAR in pot smoke is bad for your lungs. The psychotropic properties of marijuana would not bother me in the least. If I had a choice between my child using pot or alcohol, I would gladly choose pot if it were legal.

 

[IBhacknU]

 

[BigSmooth]

Also, everyone should listen to &quot;Burn One Down&quot; by Ben Harper. Great song, great message!

 

[DABANSHEE]

Fact is, virtually the only time people overdose from heroin is when its illegal, because of quantity/quality irregularities. In countries where diamorphine (prescription heroin) is legal, such as Switzerland &amp; the UK, it is extremly rare for people to overdose from diamorphine. Plus one can be on it for 50 years with absolutely no ill-effects on the body.. Just as there are WWII war veterans who have been on morphine (heroin converts to morphine in the body) for 50 years (shrapnel lodged near the spine) with no ill-effects - as any doctor will tell you opiods are totally non toxic to the body.

Did you know that insurance premiums in some parts of Switzerland dropped 20% or more since Heroin was decriminalised &amp; diamorphine was made avaliable? Why is that? Well its because prescription heroin costs no more to make than instant coffee powder, so all the junkies just pay $5 a day at their local pharmacy or D&amp;A clinic &amp; get all the heroin they 'need', consequently they arn't spending their days climbing out of peoples windows with VCRs under their arms.

If you think about it, virtual all the negative side-effects of drug use is from it being illegal.

Really no one who chooses not to take heroin, is going to take it up all of a sudden, just because its no longer illegal.

Basically the only people at risk from drug abuse are that 10% of the population who have addictive personalities &amp;/or are trying to escape from like. &amp; as far as that 10% are concerned they are already abusing drugs (including alcohol), decriminalisation won't effect that 10% at all. Anyway as anyone who know heroin addicts will tell you, on the rare occasion heroin isnt avaliable they just use barbs, benzos or alcohol instead, actually useally all 3 at once (because its them that are the problem, not the drug). So if hypothetically the drug war had been successful &amp; heroin had stopped being avaliable, all those addicts would have just become pill freaks/alcoholics, overnight, instead. &amp; guess what, they would be worse off for it, as Barbituites, benzodiazapams &amp; alcohol are all worse for the body than heroin &amp; are hardewr to withdrawl from than heroin. That's why many doctors will tell yoiu that its actually better for an alcoholics health if they just took heroin, instead.

 

Drug abuse got me nowhere in life, I don't think it helps anybody. If they were to be decriminalized, I think a much larger campaign would have to be initiated to educate people of all the harmful direct effects of these substances (OD, poisoning) and the harmful effects that the resultant induced states of mind can cause (losing your friends, car accidents, unwanted pregnancies, failing out of school, etc...).

 

[ICyourNipple]

BUMP, still waiting for a decent argument to support the war on drugs.

 

[DaBoneHead]

Now that I have your attention...

Any objective person will realize I am making complete fools of the anti-drug crowd in this debate. That may sound big-headed, but when you are right and the other side is blatantly wrong it is an easy thing to do

IC, you are almost funny. Declaring yourself self to be objective, when you have are not. You are a drug user, and you are trying to find vindication for that action.

And isn't that what this is all about? You are a drug user. Society says this is a &quot;bad&quot; thing, and since no-one likes to feel like a bad person, or that they are doing a &quot;bad&quot; thing, they look for validation or justification in their actions. So you post that article here, expecting alot of people to say, &quot;Gee IC, I guess you are right. It isn't a bad thing and we were all wrong about those drugs... you are a wonderful person *group-hug*&quot;. Well, guess what jackass, this ain't a support group.

You know what alcohol, cigarettes, and narcotics have in common (besides the obvious addiction possibility)? Generally speaking, if you dont' start experimenting with them at early ages, you never start... Why? Because the older you get, the less likely you are to do stupid things, and the less impressionable you become. And this is what galls me about you IC, your approach to this is nothing short of &quot;pushing&quot;. Don't think so? Well do you think this board consists of nothing but college students and adults? Hell, what is Anand? 18? What is Paulson? 14. There are kids who read these damn posts, and many of them are in their impressionable years and stupid posts like yours can influence them to do things that they otherwise might not, and who knows, some of them might get hooked... For christ's sake, you may as well be standing on the side of a playground full of eighth graders pimping nickle bags.

Like I said, I don't give a rat's ass what you do with your life, but stop trying to convince others (and yourself) that it is ok. It isn't. Oh, and I don't condone alcohol or any other drug. They all suck. They tried to ban alcohol and failed in the 20's. Narcotics are banned, and for good reason. If they (we) do lose the drug war, it won't be from not trying. It will be because of people like you. You don't think you are a problem, but if you ain't part of the cure, you are part of the problem.

 

[DABANSHEE]

So are you saying anyone who has a glass of wine with dinner or a beer at the footy is stupid?

Who gives a fuk if there are impresionable kids on these boards? I don't - if they are that 90% who don't have addictive personalities or have anything in life to escape from they'l be ok no matter what they take, &amp; if they are that 10% who do have addictive personalities or do have things to escape from (like being molested by their step dad) they'l become addicts/alcholics, no matter what anyone says or does, its pre determaned. You only have to see how many people have inherited the disease of alcoholism from their parents - I have a freind who can have one beer &amp; he's ok, but if he has 2 beers the alcohol then flicks a switch in his brain &amp; he has to consume every drink he can till he's unconscious, well he inherited that trait from his father, &amp; there's nothing he can do about it except make sure he nebver has more than 1 drink in a 2 hour period. Some medical specialists have the opinion that people like that have an alergy to alcohol, which causes a reaction that makes them consume more.

Anyways its when people say &quot;don't smoke pot, you'll instantly become addicted&quot;, who are causing the problem. Because as soon as a kid has a toke on a joint &amp; realises he's not instantly addicted &amp; that nothing bad happened to him, he'l assume everything negative he's heard about drugs is bullsh!t.

You seem to forget alcohol &amp; drugs are not the problem, they are just a symptom of the real problem, which is that 10% of humans have the disease of addiction, &amp; there's absolutely nothing that anyone can do about it. Until they come to axcept that themselves &amp; go on the wagon. That's why heroin addicts do't all of a sudden become model citizens when heroin isnt avaliable, they just become pill freaks &amp; alcoholics instead. Which is worse as benzos, barbs &amp; alcohol are worse for the body than opiods &amp; are harder to get off.

 

[DaBoneHead]

What the hell is a footy?

This post was about illegal narcotics, however alcohol, which is a drug no doubt, has once again become the focus. I'll answer your question, though.

&quot;All depends on the person, now doesn't it?&quot;

Oh, and what the hell is a footy?

 

[Isla]

<< There are kids who read these damn posts, and many of them are in their impressionable years and stupid posts like yours can influence them to do things that they otherwise might not, and who knows, some of them might get hooked >>



This point cannot be argued....



edit: ok, maybe it can be argued, but not w/me... it's a mom thing...

 

[DABANSHEE]

&quot;This post was about illegal narcotics, however alcohol, which is a drug no doubt, has once again become the focus. I'll answer your question, though.

&quot;All depends on the person, now doesn't it?&quot;

So are you saying that its not stupid to take drugs, if they are legal, but stupid to take them if they are illegal; or are you saying that it depends on the person?

Well does that mean we should ban alcohol, seeing as 10% of people can't handle it?

Well guess what, they tried that &amp; just like the 'war on drugs' it didn't work.

 

[DaBoneHead]

Dabanshee,

I don't exactly know what you are trying to say. I'm not doing &quot;good-drug&quot; &quot;bad-drug&quot; argument.

And you still haven't told me what a &quot;footy&quot; is...

Oh, and where is 10% coming from? That number seems a bit low (or a lot low). Also, it is too &quot;round&quot; a figure.. not 9.8%, not 11.2%, but 10%. Nice round figures always make me suspect their veracity.

 

[DABANSHEE]

Don't be a bloody idiot, of course when someone says '10%' they mean about 10%.

BTW, speaking of the obvious, 'footy' is short for football, so when someones having a beer at the footy , the're having a beer art the football.

I don't know, what is it with these people who need everything spelt out for em

 

[apoppin]

Just a quick post before I head off to work (I'll catch up on the flames this afternoon).

#1) The United States has already lost the war on drugs.

#2) Decriminalization has been proven to work. It IS a great success in progressive European countries.

#3) The secret to decriminalization is to put the money wasted on fighting drugs into education and rehabilitation.

Flame on.

EDIT: Of course by footy you mean Australian football.

 

[Napalm381]

<< BTW, speaking of the obvious, 'footy' is short for football, so when someones having a beer at the footy , the're having a beer art the football. >>

Obvious my ass! I never heard that term either before this thread.

 

[apoppin]

Aussie slang. Also used throughout Great Britian and Ireland.

C'ya.