The War on the People aka The War on Drugs

ICyourNipple

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Oct 9, 2000
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This is an absolutely beautiful post I read at Speakout.com. Give it a read, you will be glad you did


In a capitalist society, as long as there is a market
for a product, there will be some industrious person
who will deliver it. Therefore, as long as people are
willing to take drugs, there will be those who will be
willing to supply them.

This being given, we can attack the problem a number
of ways. First, eliminate the demand. That involves
locking up all the addicts and recreational users in
the country. I have not looked at recent numbers, but
when I was in high school, the gov't estimated that
74% of all high school students had at least tried pot
once. Since locking up the majority of the country is
probably not a realistic option, let's table that idea.

Next, eliminate the supply. But then, is this really a
doable idea? If we eliminate all of the coca plants in
Peru, which we basically did in the 70's and 80's,
what is to stop the industry from relocating to, say,
Columbia, which is what it did? If we spend the decade
or two eradicating coca from Columbia, will the
cocaine shipments stop, or just come from somewhere
else? Again, in a capitalist society, as long as there
is a demand, there will be a supply to meet it. If the
gov't intervenes and tries to stop it, the supply will
just become more expensive. More expensive drugs
create more profit for dealers, making dealing more
lucritive. Since disputes over price or quantity or
sales area are inevitable, in a more lucritive market
disputes will be more acrimonious. The two sides
cannot bring their disputes to civil court, since the
dispute is over an illegal activity. Therefore the
litigents use violence to settle disputes.

The cost of the product also increases violence. As
cost goes up, a user, especially an addict, will find
it more and more difficult to purchase his/her
necessary quantity of drugs from a salary from a
normal, legitimate job. The addict must therefore turn
to crime and/or violence. The addict has no choice.
There is a reason that smokers do not ordinarily turn
to crime to purchase cigarettes. Nicotene is as
addictive as heroine, according to scientific studies
on lower animals. Yet smokers are not the violent
bunch that herione addicts seem to be. This is because
cigarettes are legal and relatively inexpensive,
though the government is taxing them enough to attempt
to make them cost prohibitive.

So we see that any attempt to eliminate the supply
would only increase price and violence. Probably not
what the government is after, I hope.

The third, and seemingly most reasonable and workable
solution is to remove the criminal statutes all
together. This does not mean making drugs available to
any nine year old (though they basically are now).
Drugs can be treated the same way any legal mood
altering substance is treated, like alcohol or
tobacco. Sell to adults only. Adults who arguably can
make their own decision about whether or not they
choose to smoke pot or crack or what ever else they
wish to introduce to their bodies. It is, after all,
their body. Who am I to determine how much risk they
should assign to their own lives?

Since the transport risk is gone in this case, the
price returns to reasonable levels. Regulated
companies will enter the distribution market
(pharmaceuticals and tobacco companies, probably).
This decreases overhead and also decreases price. The
free market system will also help bring prices down,
because sales districts will no longer be exclusive.
The lower price and higher availability will remove
the profit motive from illegal sales to minors,
effectively putting the dealer out of business.

Drug related street violence due to turf wars will
virtually disappear. Drug related violence by addicts
will substancially decrease proportionally with the
decreasing prices.

And finally, since corporations will be accountable
for the product they sell to the public, purity and
dosage will be strictly regulated. Accidental
overdoses will virtually disappear.

What the country needs to do is stop moralizing about
the evils of drug use in the way the prohibitionists
did in the twenties. America discovered how
practiacally infeasible it is to legislate what
someone can ingest. Why they think it will work with
other drugs, after almost a century of trying, is a
mystery. It is obvious it has not worked. A trip to
your local middle school will bear that out. It is
easier to get a dime bag there than a six pack. Liberty consists in the freedom to do everything which injures no one else - Declaration of the Rights of Man- Marquis de Lafayette, Thomas Jefferson 1789

Vote for a candidate that will end the drug war. Whether it be Nader or Browne, let us finally take a stand.


 

Nutcase99

Golden Member
Dec 22, 1999
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I agree with most of that but umm.....

Drugs can be treated the same way any legal mood
altering substance is treated, like alcohol or
tobacco. Sell to adults only. Adults who arguably can
make their own decision about whether or not they
choose to smoke pot or crack or what ever else they
wish to introduce to their bodies. It is, after all,
their body. Who am I to determine how much risk they
should assign to their own lives?


The only problem with that is once they try it they are addicted in most cases. SO that really isn't a feasable alternative.
 

ICyourNipple

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Oct 9, 2000
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its all about each individual. not much out there is more addictive than nicotine, and people do quit nicotine. there are also other drugs that are used to treat heroin and crack withdrawal if it gets to that.

but don't underestimate the will power of the responsible drug user. there are many successful people that occasionally use illegal drugs, and it doesn't affect them negatively in the least.
 

IBhacknU

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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<< Liberty consists in the freedom to do everything which injures no one else >>

This is BS. Drugs tear families apart. Drug use changes people. The effect it has on their life has a DIRECT effect on the lives of others.

I don't agree with this a bit!
 

ICyourNipple

Member
Oct 9, 2000
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It all depends. Let's just say I speak from experience ;) For one thing, what is legal and what is illegal is left up to one of the most corrupt organizations in existence: the FDA. If you want me to I can show you countless examples of harmless drugs (in some cases amino acids for the love of god) being banned in the interests of the pharmaceutical industry. They lie, they demonize, and they brainwash. Here are some questions to ask yourself:

1. since there are legal drugs every bit as capable of ruining lives as the ones that are illegal currently, what really changes by making maurijuana at the least, and practically everything at the most, legal?

2. which has proven to cause more deaths, maurijuana or cigarrettes?

3. why should people doing no harm to society be punished?

To Bush and Gore: either serve your felonies (most likely multiple felonies) and then you can say you are for the drug war without looking like a jackass.
 

mjquilly

Golden Member
Jun 12, 2000
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<< A trip to your local middle school will bear that out. It is easier to get a dime bag than a six-pack of beer. >>



Soooo true. Over the past summer, I got a chance to catch up with some kids that go to my high school (or other high shools, I'm in college now) that I hadn't talked to in a while or never really had before. I couldn't belive how many were hugh pot-heads, and yet had never tasted alcohol more than one or two times, if ever.
 

IBhacknU

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Well, I do agree with that. Letting someone decide what is and what is not 'legal' is a problem in and of itself.

but, I still can't get past this part:


<< 3. why should people doing no harm to society be punished? >>

No harm to society? The effects on society may not be direct, but they do occur.

For instance, I can't think straight right now because of the effect of a legal drug. The beer I just slammed caused me to loose all train of thought and offer no further argument to this messge. You and countless others have now read this message and WASTED YOUR TIME. This is the effect on society.

Truly though, I no longer have the desire to argue the above argument. I would rather watch SNL (which is a further waste to society).

 

ICyourNipple

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Oct 9, 2000
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Why? The people in charge of enforcing those laws will always be hypocrites. To top it off, as mentioned earlier, it is impossible to enforce. When in doubt, I'll take more freedom over less. The agency that bans L-Tryptophan is telling me what is good and what isn't? HA!
 

ICyourNipple

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Oct 9, 2000
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This is a very important topic, and I challenge anyone to try to prove my viewpoint wrong. A bump for the people.
 

ICyourNipple

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Oct 9, 2000
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Just like I thought, no one can provide a single valid reason for the drug war. Figures, since a valid reason does not exist.
 

Napalm381

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
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<< Drugs tear families apart. Drug use changes people. The effect it has on their life has a DIRECT effect on the lives of others. >>

Alcohol does exactly the same thing. &quot;But not to everybody!&quot;, you say. You prove the point of this essay perfectly.
 

IBhacknU

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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<< since a valid reason does not exist >>

Is it that a valid reason does not exist, or an easy answer does not exist?

There is no easy approach to the whole drug thing. Who is to say what and what is not a drug. Alcohol IS a drug, nicotine IS a drug, some might even consider caffeine a type of drug. So, as you say, who decides?

Yes Nipple boy, you have an argument. Just because society has difficulty deciding what is right and what is wrong doesn't mean you say 'to hell with it all' and legalize everything.

 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Maybe those who feel strongly about this ought to take this to the streets like the Viet Nam generation did. There are probably a small minority of polititians that favor the war on drugs philosophically, but I bet they are scared sh!tless to just like they would fear saying 'excuse me' in a fart fouled elevator.
 

ICyourNipple

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Oct 9, 2000
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But whats the alternative? As of now what gets banned and what doesn't is in many cases determined by the pharmaceutical companies and their interests. They don't care about our health...all they want is $$$$$$$ Rezulin is a prime example of the pharmaceutical companies greed.

I understand that you are probably new to this concept, but go ahead and think out the alternatives to legalization. Believe me, you will eventually come to the realization there is no practical alternative. There is no alternative that causes less harm than flat out legalizing everything. Locking up people for felonies not only destroys their lives, but they also come out with a vendetta against the world in some cases.

Anyway, please give this thought. I trust that you will eventually come to the same realization I have.

Moonbeam

Your right on the money. But these same politicians willingly brainwash the public. This screams &quot;I am a puppet&quot;, and I know exactly who is pulling the strings.
 

DirkBelig

Banned
Oct 15, 1999
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I am militantly anti-drug. I have NEVER even hit a joint, much less anything harder and I hardly drink. HOWEVER, I support the end of the so-called &quot;War On Drugs&quot;. It's degenerated into a &quot;War On FREEDOM&quot;!

I resent my tax dollars being used to warehouse a bunch of stoners while violent criminals are freed due to overcrowding. Decriminalization would remove the profit-motive behind drug gang turf wars and prevent the government from intruding into our lives in the name of &quot;protecting the children&quot;.

The government WANTS drugs flowing into the country so that a portion can dope themselves into oblivion (making them easier to control) and to give them a reason to seize personal property without due process (drug forfeiture laws) and violate 4th Ammendment rights (unreasonable search and seizure). Also, the WOD allows the use of US Military forces AGAINST AMERICANS when drugs are involved. That's why the Army was at Waco: Because the government &quot;claimed&quot; that the Branch Davidians were running a crystal meth lab. Of course, they weren't, but that didn't stop the troops from being sent.

I'm quite conscious of the potential for destruction of drugs, but those who didn't use before, wouldn't use after and anyone who succumbs to addiction is better off not weakening the herd.

Drugs are bad, but the War on Drugs has failed and has created problems for those who don't even use. End it.
 

Buddha Bart

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
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legalization could also have other benificial affects.

If these drugs are made legal, and people do become addicted, they no longer have to fear finding help. Professional rehabilitation services will become more available, and more advanced.

bart
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
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A distinction needs to be made here. Legalization and decriminalization are two different concepts when talking about drugs. Legalization would mean drugs could be bought as readily as chewing gum. Decriminalization would mean it's still a controlled substance, a la nicotine and alcohol, but is no longer considered a crime to be in possession of such a substance as long as you meet the age and other requirements.

Edit: This is the way I see it anyway.
 

ICyourNipple

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Oct 9, 2000
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Boberfett,

I absolutely am in support for age limits in the same way as with cigerettes or alcohol. I don't think anyone isn't in support of that.
 

DirkBelig

Banned
Oct 15, 1999
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Yes. I support decriminalization, NOT legalization. And any harms caused by users must be punished as any substance ABUSERS are currently.
 

IBhacknU

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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drugs don't kill people, but it sure f's em up pretty bad. This is not they type of society I want to live in.

(forgive me, as no one has or will be able to define what is and is not a 'drug')
 

InTheClouds

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Jul 6, 2000
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I support complete legalization of all drugs. Part of being free is being able to frie your brain any way you see fit. Sure, some drugs can cause great amounts of harm, but guess what, we are free people. I assume that hardcore drug addicts would go on a binge and probably kill themselves in the process but hey, that's what they did to themselves. After a generation of two people will realize that some things should not be put into their body unless they are looking for an early grave. That's doesn't sound nice but hey, that's reality. Some of the greatest thinkers have used drugs regularly and accomplished some amaizing things. Not to mention the fact that our first president grew marijuana.

The only reason that drugs are not legal now is because the gov. is making too much money off of them being illegal.

Blaze one for the nation!!!!!!!!!!