The War on the People aka The War on Drugs

[InTheClouds]

IBhacknU

(forgive me, as no one has or will be able to define what is and is not a 'drug')

Jeeze, any chemical stimuli that brings about any change in a persons body or actions.

Dont quote me but that about sums it up to me. Maybe I have just done too much drugs.

 

[BoberFett]

Sounds about right Clouds, in a very brief sort of way. Sugar is addictive, and is mind-altering. Just ask any parent.


Sugar is the powder of Beelzebub himself! Ban it!

 

[InTheClouds]

come on people..............

 

[luv2chill]

I almost wonder if a decriminalization of drugs would cause a decrease in drug use. A lot of people do drugs for the thrill of doing something illegal. I really think that The Netherlands has the right idea--based on the Least Harm principle.

On another note, the core reasons people do drugs (including "legal" drugs such as alcohol and nicotine) are rooted in society and human nature--not the drugs themselves. Life must be pretty painful and unfulfilling for people to feel the need to escape from it. That's the real problem... :|

l2c

 

[IBhacknU]

It just makes it a difficult point to argue.

This whole thread is really TWO arguments. Who defines what a drug is (or what is to be controlled) and how do you control/enfore it (if you do it at all)

 

[bigvince]

ya know it's too bad we dont run the country, if we did americans would all be some gun toteing, pot smoking, athiests.....

 

[ICyourNipple]

IBhacknU,

To have any fair system for what is legal and what is not, you would need someone who is not corrupt in the White House. That excludes both Democrats and Republicans. Most other parties (from what I have seen) want to decriminalize drugs. Why do you think that is?

If people need drugs to escape their problems, they will get them regardless of the laws. When this person gets their life back together, they may very well quit the drugs. The problem is when they get arrested and convicted of a felony before this happens. When they get out of jail their life will be in shambles, which often leads to a viscious cycle. Would you agree with this statement?

 

[JellyBaby]

<< The only reason that drugs are not legal now is because the gov. is making too much money off of them being illegal. >>

How many billions are spent on the US's undeclared war on the fields of Columbia South America? How many politicians have run waving the &quot;War on Drugs&quot; flag? &quot;I want X number more policemen to finally stop this atrocious drug disease that plagues our nation!&quot;. Well X number of more cops means X $$$ more in taxes. When does it end? The law of diminishing returns kicks in at some point (some feel we?re already there). You can spend 20% of the nations budget fighting the drug war and see drug use decline. If you spend 30%, you may see another decline but not as much. At what point is the line drawn? When we?re all completely broke and there finally is a cop on every street corner and a 30? foot wall encircles our borders and children go through anti-drug brainwashing sessions bla bla the list goes on. :disgust:

 

[Wedesdo]

like many others - i completely disagree.

if everyone is on drugs, it will disable human logic, induce more killings and violence, and tear this society apart.

ic - you're a pothead.

 

[IBhacknU]

<< To have any fair system for what is legal and what is not, you would need someone who is not corrupt in the White House. That excludes both Democrats and Republicans. >>

I agree with this. Politics is just that, politics. A lot of times, nothing gets done



<< Most other parties (from what I have seen) want to decriminalize drugs. Why do you think that is? >>

I do not follow politics enough to know how truthful that statement is.



<< If people need drugs to escape their problems, they will get them regardless of the laws. >>

Yes, people will find a way to get what they want, regarless of laws and regardless of their EXCUSES. Hell, I have problems, but I choose to deal with them in a bit more rational way. I don't run from my problems, or cover them up by taking drugs. It is BS to use this as a reason to let people take drugs. What type of society would rather you F-up your life versus helping you fix it.



<< When this person gets their life back together, they may very well quit the drugs. >>

I think the odds are the may very well NOT quit. Drugs are addictive. People lose the control over their lives and what is right and wrong. They become a burdon to society. Society pays for this in many ways.



<< When they get out of jail their life will be in shambles >>

Yes... I agree, the correctional system has problems in and of itself. Now we've got another 'problem' to work out. The whole thing is a big problem. Wait a minute, wasn't prison suppose to be a deterrent to breaking the law in the first place?

Legalizing everything is NOT the answer. Sure it may sound like the easy answer, but it does not solve every problem. In fact, it creates more problems.

 

[BoberFett]

You're missing the point completely. Obviously the war on drugs doesn't work, we've tried it, and have lost badly. Has drug use gone down? NO!

Then why continue a failed program that is costing billions of dollars and many lives? Follow the money.

 

[ICyourNipple]

&quot;I do not follow politics enough to know how truthful that statement is.&quot;

Examples: Ralph Nader, Jesse Ventura, Harry Browne.

&quot;I don't run from my problems, or cover them up by taking drugs.&quot;

You admitted to drinking alcohol, therefore you do drugs. Alcohol is IMO, far worse than maurijuana, and I have facts to back up that statement.

&quot;What type of society would rather you F-up your life versus helping you fix it.&quot;

Sending people to jail for years is F'ing them up pretty badly.

&quot;I think the odds are the may very well NOT quit.&quot;

Considering that rehab clinics would be widely available with no fears of going to one, would you make that same statement again?

&quot;They become a burdon to society.&quot;

Many of them don't...Some people will be a failure regardless, but taxpayer money should not be going to support them.

 

[DaBoneHead]

>> In a capitalist society, as long as there is a market
for a product, there will be some industrious person
who will deliver it. Therefore, as long as people are
willing to take drugs, there will be those who will be
willing to supply them. <<


So, by this definition, drug use is a result of capitalism... ok. And could the word &quot;opportunistic&quot; be put in place of the word &quot;industrious&quot;?

Listen, I don't give a rats ass what you do with your life, but please don't try to influence others. Drugs are bad. IMO worse than alcohol and cigarettes because they are &quot;mind altering&quot;. Don't try to BS us with &quot;Oh, I am a responsible drug user&quot;... Please! There isn't such a thing.

Let me tell you what it is all about. Some people have &quot;addictive&quot; personalities... given a drug of any sort, they will get hooked. For instance, some people can drink, and not let it ruin their lives. Some people can't. I had a roomate who if he had even one drink, he wasn't through till he was drunk. One time he was canvasing the parking lot for dropped pennies and change for quarter beer night because he was out of money... It was that bad. He ended up in prison for quite some time for beating a cop half to death while he was drunk.

The same is true about <insert your choice> drug... Some people will not get hooked, while a lot of fscking other people will, and their lives will be ruined, and more than likely those of other people around them, or those who care about them. I've seen it happen.

The laws you think are depriving you of some form of 'liberty', are there to try to protect people from themselves, because of those people who become addicted, ultimately they either die, become a burden on the rest of us, or eek out a less than human existance.

So if you can shoot up, smoke it up, or pop pills all night long without becoming an addict, then that's good for you. But if you could remove your head from your ass long enough to get a look at the bigger picture, you will see that that is more the exception to the rule, than the rule.

This government isn't spending billions of dollars a year fighting a drug trade just because they want to impose unswerving obedience to their will upon their citizens, there are internal social, as well as external political ramifications to the drugs you use, and you should be aware of them. Many many south american communist guerrillas (sp?) are primarily funded through the drug trade, and while you snort up that coke, you should realize that real people more than likely died as a result... be they judges, police, or even the traffickers themselves.

There are no winners with drugs... just losers.

So now, just STFU!

 

[bigvince]

DABONEHEAD


you name has never been more true...




<< Don't try to BS us with &quot;Oh, I am a responsible drug user&quot;... Please! There isn't such a thing. >>




you sir are full of s'hit wich is probably the reason your so closed minded cause you cant here the truth.....clean the s'hit out of your ears.




<< Drugs are bad. IMO worse than alcohol and cigarettes because they are &quot;mind altering&quot; >>



what are you stupid! drugs are worse than alchohol (A DRUG!) becuase thier &quot;mind altering&quot; ....uh what do you think that funny feeling you get when you drink is....could it be an ALTERD state of mind...!


dude be prepared to back up your foundless arguments next time....


oh wait i found another



<< The laws you think are depriving you of some form of 'liberty', are there to try to protect people from themselves >>



whot he f'uck are you or the goverment to protect me from my self! if im gonna kill my self then why the hell do i need the goverments permission to do it!!!!:|

 

[rahvin]

<<The laws you think are depriving you of some form of 'liberty', are there to try to protect people from themselves>>

And that right there scares the living hell out of me. I don't do drugs and I think they generally cause a lot of harm (with the exception of weed). But the government has no right to protect me from myself. That's like making suicide illegal...

<<This government isn't spending billions of dollars a year fighting a drug trade just because they want to impose unswerving obedience to their will upon their citizens, there are internal social, as well as external political ramifications to the drugs you use, and you should be aware of them.>>

So how wass the government looking out for our interests when the CIA sold crack in LA to pay for a war that congress didn't authorize in central america?

 

[Isla]

Hmmmm...

Getting ugly in here... and as usual, I see strong points in both sides of the argument.

IMHO, the 'decriminalization' of marijuana would not be a bad thing. In fact, our government could stand to make a pretty penny on it, like it has with alcohol and tobacco. It could be a very big domestic product, no need to import it from South America or other countries. However, marijuana is the ONLY substance I think should be considered for this measure. The other crap, like cocaine, heroin, designer drugs, etc, should still be illegal as hell.

Just my .02, I'm sure people will disagree, but I am all about trying to find balance in life. Se la vie.

 

[IBhacknU]

<< Don't try to BS us with &quot;Oh, I am a responsible drug user&quot;... Please! There isn't such a thing. >>

you sir are full of s'hit wich is probably the reason your so closed minded cause you cant here the truth.....clean the s'hit out of your ears.

What kind of argument is that. DaBoneHead made some vaild points, but to reply back with crap makes no sense (unless you're on drugs right now)

 

[Napalm381]

<< if everyone is on drugs, it will disable human logic, induce more killings and violence, and tear this society apart. >>

Decriminalization would not mean that &quot;everyone&quot; is on drugs. Alcohol and cigarettes are legal, yet many people choose not to use them. Your statement is worthless.


<< Drugs are bad. IMO worse than alcohol and cigarettes because they are &quot;mind altering&quot;. >>

Alcohol is not a mind-altering drug?! What kind of idiot statement is that?! Being drunk is not a state of altered consciousness?


<< are there to try to protect people from themselves, because of those people who become addicted, ultimately they either die, become a burden on the rest of us, or eek out a less than human existance. >>

Cigarette users who chew up insurance money when they get lung/throat/oral cancer are not a burden on the rest of us? Drunk drivers who kill innocent people are not a burden on the rest of us?

Your post is so full of inaccuracies and flat out lies that it's laughable.

 

[IBhacknU]

<< Cigarette users who chew up insurance money when they get lung/throat/oral cancer are not a burden on the rest of us? Drunk drivers who kill innocent people are not a burden on the rest of us? >>

Guess what, I don't think people should smoke. I also don't think people should drink and drive.

Just because people do it anyway, does that make it OK? Sure, one is legal, the other is not. Doesn't matter though, both are a drain on society.

 

[BigSmooth]

I agree with Isla for the most part. Marijuana is clearly in a different class than heroin, crack, LSD, cocaine, crystal meth, and the rest. It is a natural substance that is completely non-lethal and actually has some medical uses. THC is far less addictive than nicotine. The use of marijuana does not cause people to become violent, either, and that's more than I can say for alcohol.

I think the &quot;Drug War&quot; and Barry McCaffrey are a joke. The only reason it continues (along with the criminalization of marijuana) is for political reasons. To most of the population, saying &quot;all drugs are bad. we have to stop drugs!&quot; sounds just great. Why? Because people aren't educated enough to understand that marijuana is less harmful than alcohol or tobacco. And people don't realize that the so-called &quot;war on drugs&quot; is a huge waste of taxpayer money that is so flawed and riddled with generalities and injustices that it should be abandoned.

Marijuana should be legalized. Many other drugs such as crack and heroin (those which can cause people to become dangerous to themselves and others, or can cause debilitating withdrawal symptoms) should not. But the way we go about trying to stop people from using them has to change.

 

[ICyourNipple]

DaBoneHead

&quot;So, by this definition, drug use is a result of capitalism... ok&quot;

This opinion never implied that and you know it. Making statements like these don't help your credibility.

&quot;Listen, I don't give a rats ass what you do with your life&quot;

If you support sending people to jail for a felony then YES you do.

&quot;Drugs are bad. IMO worse than alcohol and cigarettes because they are &quot;mind altering&quot;.&quot;

Its very hard not to downright insult your ignorance at this point...alcohol is a CNS depressant that is very mind altering. Even having to explain this is absolutely ridiculous. Other drugs such as steroids are not mind altering, care to explain why these should be illegal?

&quot;For instance, some people can drink, and not let it ruin their lives. Some people can't.&quot;

If drinking can ruin your life then shouldn't it be illegal? After all, &quot;Drugs are bad.&quot; BTW, ever hear of rehab clinics and then responsiblity by the individual once they learn they can't handle it?

&quot;One time he was canvasing the parking lot for dropped pennies and change for quarter beer night because he was out of money... It was that bad. He ended up in prison for quite some time for beating a cop half to death while he was drunk.&quot;

See #1, yet another person proves my point.

&quot;The same is true about <insert your choice> drug...&quot;

Same as alcohol? Wait a second, isn't alcohol LEGAL??? Hmmmm...

&quot;because of those people who become addicted, ultimately they either die, become a burden on the rest of us, or eek out a less than human existance&quot;

I wonder if the felony convictions and fear of going to rehab has anything to do with this?

&quot;So if you can shoot up, smoke it up, or pop pills all night long without becoming an addict, then that's good for you.&quot;

Then don't convict me of a felony crime and ruin my life in the process.

&quot;But if you could remove your head from your ass long enough to get a look at the bigger picture, you will see that that is more the exception to the rule, than the rule.&quot;

Any objective person will realize I am making complete fools of the anti-drug crowd in this debate. That may sound big-headed, but when you are right and the other side is blatantly wrong it is an easy thing to do.

&quot;Many many south american communist guerrillas (sp?) are primarily funded through the drug trade, and while you snort up that coke, you should realize that real people more than likely died as a result... be they judges, police, or even the traffickers themselves.&quot;

What is your point? You just made another case for my argument. Decriminalization would end of all this.

&quot;So now, just STFU!&quot;

With my thorough rebuttal, I am sure you will not respond, and thus looks like I made you STFU

Strike Three, hes out. Anyone else want to step to the plate?

 

[IBhacknU]

<< &quot;So, by this definition, drug use is a result of capitalism... ok&quot; >>

This opinion never implied that and you know it.

IC, read the first paragraph of your original post: &quot;In a capitalist society, as long as there is a market for a product, there will be some industrious person who will deliver it. Therefore, as long as people are willing to take drugs, there will be those who will be willing to supply them.&quot;

I do not have a degree in economics, but that sure sounds like capitalism to me.

Why is it you think you're winning this argument? This thread has brought to light many problems with our society. There are many isssues discussed in this thread. Don't think there is one almighty answer.

 

[ICyourNipple]

He is saying there will be drug use in a capitalist society, but doesn't say that capitalism is the reason people use drugs. Do I need to explain this further?

Why do I think I am winning the argument? Because I am.

 

[Impact55]

<< There are no winners with drugs... just losers. >>


Wow, someone that is influenced by propaganda... I agree that harder drugs ( XTC, Cocaine, crack , heroin, etc.) should be illegal simply because it is so easy to die from overdosing ( kind of like alchohol). However, NOT ONE person has EVER died from Marijuana overdose. That is a fact. Marijuana should be legalized, and there are a lot of reasons for this that I will not get into here. Two of the top &quot;liberals&quot; support Marijuana &quot;decriminalization&quot; ( Browne and Nader), which is often a sign in history that the views will slowly be adopted by the two top parties.
If you think that Marijuana should be &quot;legal&quot; vote for Browne or Nader, a vote for Bush is stupid, he wants to spend a couple more billion on the &quot;Drug War&quot;. (Crack head)
It's kind of funny that your name relates to the quality of your posts.

 

[IBhacknU]

<< Do I need to explain this further? >>

Don't bother. You've obviously interpreted things differently than I.

Go back to your 'drug' of choice