The U.S. Middle Class Is Being Wiped Out

[piasabird]

Anyone that makes bad investments stands to lose their money. Perhaps they should have diversified their portfolio. Investing all of your money in one investment has always been a bad idea and it will continue to be a bad idea in the future. Real Estate has always been a high risk venture. Anytime you are using credit to invest you increase the risk you are taking. When you make bad investments using leverage, it increases your losses.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

You have to keep educating yourself until you know everything about nothing. Seriously, they will have to get richer and we will have to get poorer. It's been happening in Japan for nearly two decades now and we may be next.

The thing I don't get about Japan is that they are a world power with many multinational/global companies with lots of manufacturing and exporting.
That appears to be a very healthy economy. I guess their 0 population growth is hurting them in some way?

 

[Mursilis]

The thing I don't get about Japan is that they are a world power with many multinational/global companies with lots of manufacturing and exporting.
That appears to be a very healthy economy.

It isn't - look closer.

 

[sao123]

i agree but how can you compete in the global market when their standard of living is so much lower?

and thus the point that globalization was not necessarily a good thing.

 

[dmcowen674]

The U.S. Middle Class Is Being Wiped Out

My god, I posted this over six years ago and was ridiculed here that this is not possible, never going to happen.

I am thoroughly enjoying this :thumbsup:

 

[Anarchist420]

The thing is, is that most people want a small middle class. If the majority of people sincerely cared about getting rid of fascism, then they'd vote the assholes who install it out.

I don't know why people didn't listen to Louis McFadden, Andy Jackson, and Thomas Jefferson, and Murray N Rothbard. They better start listening to Dr. Paul. The Federal Reserve and the government is what's wiping the middle class out.

 

[Munky]

Just because the poor bought a $500K house with 0% down, and are now on the verge of defaulting, doesn't make them richer.

 

[Carmen813]

being?

 

[woolfe9999]

The median income of the united states is in free fall. This is outright false. It hasn't even been close to true for over 30 years.

Median income is in decline now, since the recession hit. It declines in every recession. Otherwise, to the extent that you are describing a long term trend, your statement is false.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

- wolf

 

[Carmen813]

Median income is in decline now, since the recession hit. It declines in every recession. Otherwise, to the extent that you are describing a long term trend, your statement is false.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

- wolf

Without clicking your links, do they account for inflation? I think if you do I believe income levels have basically been flat for 30 years, and it's essentially been women entering the work place that has kept the middle class alive.

 

[Acanthus]

Without clicking your links, do they account for inflation? I think if you do I believe income levels have basically been flat for 30 years, and it's essentially been women entering the work place that has kept the middle class alive.

Nope.

Also: The neutrality of this section is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved. (September 2009)

 

[Moonbeam]

The progress of America ended with 'where's the beef', Reagan, the asshole. You eating more or less?

 

[Munky]

being?

If you're referring to my post, it means that while many lower-class people are enjoying a higher standard of living, compared to 30-40 years ago, they are also living beyond their means and are up to their necks in debt.

 

[woolfe9999]

Nope.

Also: The neutrality of this section is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved. (September 2009)

Wrong on both counts. The link for personal income has a table that shows income over time. The number in parens is adjusted as 2004 dollars. There is no neutrality dispute for that article. And the data is footnoted.

The other link is for household income, shows a line graph, which is titled "Real Median Household Income." "Real" income means it is adjusted for inflation. The neutrality dispute is not for that section; it is for the section after that, pertaining to data related to foreign countries.

The bottom line is you made an assertion that median income has not been increasing over time, and you haven't backed it up. You only link median income over a recent 4 year period. If you think the data I linked is wrong, then supply an alternative source.

- wolf

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

When you adjust for increases in housing, education, and healthcare costs, middle class wages have essentially been flat for the past 50 years. This is covered in the video I linked to. Merely adjusting for inflation doesn't really reflect the reality of the situation.

 

[Blackjack200]

I have done all right over those years and most people I know has done ok for themselves as well. Remember people at the bottom do not stay and bottom and people at the top do not stay there either. This current recession has reduced the number of millionaires and billionaires in this country and I dont think we are better off because of that.

We do have a strong middle class and it is generally moving up not down.

Are you sure about that? I'm under the impression that economic mobility is very low in this country. I'll try to do some research when I get home, but I'm under the impression that it's one of our biggest problems.

 

[woolfe9999]

Without clicking your links, do they account for inflation? I think if you do I believe income levels have basically been flat for 30 years, and it's essentially been women entering the work place that has kept the middle class alive.

Yes, they account for inflation, and they show increasing median personal income and median household income on a trend over the past 4 decades. You'll also notice that it dips down in every recession. The current one being, of course, no exception.

Edit: my second link breaks it down by gender (as well as ethnicity, etc.), and you are essentially correct that women entering the work force accounts for much of the gain. However, male income has also risen somewhat, in real dollars.

- wolf

 

[Blackjack200]

Looks like the answer is, as usual, complicated. Here's what Wikipedia has to say on the matter:

There are two main types of mobility, absolute and relative.[1] Absolute upward mobility involves widespread economic growth which benefits everyone[1]. Relative mobility is specific to individuals and occurs without relation to the economy as a whole[1]. Both absolute and relative income mobility has been large and upward in the past ten years for those starting with below-average incomes; 80 percent of taxpayers had incomes in quintiles as high or higher in 2005 than they did in 1996, and 45 percent of taxpayers not in the highest income quintile moved up at least one quintile[2].

There has been a great disparity of income growth between 1979 and 2004 in the United States. The real, after-tax income of the top 1% earners has grown by 176% percent during that time, compared to a 69% rise for the top 20%, and an increase of 9% for the lowest 20%[1]. Increasing income inequality, however, does not necessarily imply decreasing mobility. Median family income has risen 29% and mean family income has risen 43%, compared to the income of the previous generation for people that were children in 1968[3]. Most of this growth in total family income can be attributed to the increasing number of women who work since male earnings have stayed relatively stable throughout this time[3]. Two thirds of those who were children in 1968 reported more income than their parents, but only half of them exceeded their parents economic standing by moving up one or more quintiles[3]. Although one third of the nation is moving up quintiles, another third is downwardly mobile — experiencing a decrease in income and economic standing compared to their parents[3].

Moving between quintiles is more frequent in the middle quintiles (2-4) than in the lowest and highest quintiles. Of those in one of the quintiles 2-4 in 1996, approximately 35% stayed in the same quintile; and approximately 22% went up one quintile or down one quintile (moves of more than one quintile are rarer). However, 42% of children born in the bottom quintile are most likely to stay there, and another 42% move up to the second and middle quintile[3]. On the opposite end of the spectrum, 39% of those who were born into the top quintile as children in 1968 are likely to stay there, and 23% end up in the fourth quintile[3]. Children previously from lower-income families had only a 1% chance of having an income that ranks in the top 5%[4]. On the other hand, the children of wealthy families have a 22% chance of reaching the top 5%[4].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_mobility

 

[zephyrprime]

The thing I don't get about Japan is that they are a world power with many multinational/global companies with lots of manufacturing and exporting.
That appears to be a very healthy economy. I guess their 0 population growth is hurting them in some way?

Their economy is actually extremely unhealthy. They've been suffering from deflation for decades. Money losing companies and banks are never liquidated and never recover.

 

[kalrith]

43% of Americans have < 10K in retirement

I just find that hard to believe. I'm 29, don't make much money, and yet still have $14k in my 401k already. My wife has more than that.

 

[Blackjack200]

Their economy is actually extremely unhealthy. They've been suffering from deflation for decades. Money losing companies and banks are never liquidated and never recover.

Yeah, 'the lost decade' has been going for about 30 years now. I can remember a lot of the discussion when the financial markets locked up a couple of years ago was how to prevent what happened to Japan from happening to us.

 

[Blackjack200]

I just find that hard to believe. I'm 29, don't make much money, and yet still have $14k in my 401k already. My wife has more than that.

I don't really know if there's enogh information in that statistic. For example; does that 43&#37; include children? Stay at home moms? Pensioners? There could be an awful lot of people in that 43% that are not concerned about retirement.

 

[Trianon]

You have to keep educating yourself until you know everything about nothing. Seriously, they will have to get richer and we will have to get poorer. It's been happening in Japan for nearly two decades now and we may be next.

Seconded, there is definitely great equalizer of standard of living in play, except it doesn't apply to elite.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/214052-more-money-monday-corporate-america-s-2-trillion-pile-of-cash

 

[Moonbeam]

Self hating Americans do not believe in their unconscious feelings, that they deserve to have it good. For this reason they will destroy their own good, like birds that crap in their nests.

 

[bamacre]

When you adjust for increases in housing, education, and healthcare costs, middle class wages have essentially been flat for the past 50 years. This is covered in the video I linked to. Merely adjusting for inflation doesn't really reflect the reality of the situation.

It's amazing how low they can get CPI when they don't use "housing, education, and healthcare costs" to calculate it.