The Trump Tariffs thread

[esquared]

Don't know if this came up before in this thread, but on the BBC Americast podcast someone made the point that Trump's tariff increases on Brazil being explicitly tied to the conviction of Bolsonaro (who says there's no honor among thieves?) makes it very very hard to justify the tariffs being based on those Presidential 'economic emergency' powers.

In what possible way is Brazil trying its former President for corruption an 'economic emergency' for the US? But that's the basis for Trump being able to unilaterally impose tariffs, no?

Trump singles out Brazil for 50 percent tariffs over Bolsonaro trial

US president pointed to the criminal trial of far-right leader Jair Bolsonaro as the reason for the steep tariff hike.

www.aljazeera.com

Trump's threat of tariffs to Brazil is wrong in that Brazil buys more from the US than we import from them. Reciprocal , 50% tariffs only hurts the US more than Brazil.
Now getting involved in other countries politics, tariff-wise is stupid, but the syphilitic orange menace only knows stupid, so we're kinda stuck.

 

[pmv]

Trump's threat of tariffs to Brazil is wrong in that Brazil buys more from the US than we import from them. Reciprocal , 50% tariffs only hurts the US more than Brazil.
Now getting involved in other countries politics, tariff-wise is stupid, but the syphilitic orange menace only knows stupid, so we're kinda stuck.

The point being made, though, was that the legal basis for Trump imposing tariffs was that 1977 'emergency powers act'. Which allows the President to impose tariffs in the event of an 'economic emergency'. Tying the tariffs to an intervention in another country's internal legal proceedings seems to be an admission that they have nothing to do with any 'economic emergency' in the US. So where is the legal system in all this? (I mean, I know the real answer is 'in the pocket of the billionaires', but it's not clear to me that even the billionaires who own the Supreme Court are actually benefiting from these tariffs)

Actually, according to this, that act is supposed to be about imposing sanctions rather than tariffs, anyway. But even if one ignores that, I can't see how Bolsonaro being banged-up for crimes in Brazil has anything to do with an 'emergency' for the US.

 

[Jaskalas]

The point being made, though, was that the legal basis for Trump imposing tariffs was that 1977 'emergency powers act'

The Executive Branch stands alone in holding power, as the other two branches have abdicated their role in government.
Emperor Trump rules by edict, and MAGA lemmings follow.

That really is the only legal basis we have in this country anymore. Our Democracy is fallen by unchallenged executive orders.

 

[pmv]

So the rule of law has entirely broken down in the US? It's no longer a law-based, democratic, country?

 

[sdifox]

So the rule of law has entirely broken down in the US? It's no longer a law-based, democratic, country?

Umm yeah.

 

[gothuevos]

The Executive Branch stands alone in holding power, as the other two branches have abdicated their role in government.
Emperor Trump rules by edict, and MAGA lemmings follow.

That really is the only legal basis we have in this country anymore. Our Democracy is fallen by unchallenged executive orders.

Why so negative?

Look on the bright side - pretty soon you won't have to vote, you'll just enter your preferences into AI and it will "vote accordingly in your best interests."

Managed Democracy!

(Any Helldivers fans here??)

 

[Racan]

The euro weenies totally capitulated to the orange scum.

EU-US tariffs: five key takeaways from the trade deal

Donald Trump and Ursula von der Leyen announced a deal on Sunday, but questions remain over what the finished picture will be

www.theguardian.com

Disgusting 🤮

 

[manly]

The euro weenies totally capitulated to the orange scum.

EU-US tariffs: five key takeaways from the trade deal

Donald Trump and Ursula von der Leyen announced a deal on Sunday, but questions remain over what the finished picture will be

www.theguardian.com

Disgusting 🤮

lol it's an agreement, but Trump could change the terms later at his whim.

EU was in a tough spot, but they should have at least demanded the same terms that UK received.

Here's hoping Canada and China refuse to capitulate.

 

[brycejones]

The euro weenies totally capitulated to the orange scum.

EU-US tariffs: five key takeaways from the trade deal

Donald Trump and Ursula von der Leyen announced a deal on Sunday, but questions remain over what the finished picture will be

www.theguardian.com

Disgusting 🤮

American consumers got the worst deal.

 

[Heartbreaker]

lol it's an agreement, but Trump could change the terms later at his whim.

EU was in a tough spot, but they should have at least demanded the same terms that UK received.

Here's hoping Canada and China refuse to capitulate.

EU was NOT in a tough spot. At least not compared to Canada.

~20% of EU Exports go to the USA.

>75% of Canada's Exports go to the USA. Canada is the one in a really tough spot, and will probably have to accept worse terms than the EU.

When countries like the UK and EU with much less at risk roll over, you really can't expect Canada with almost it's entire Export economy dependent on the USA to wage a trade war.

What is sad, is that collectively the world, was too stupid to have a united front.

 

[K1052]

EU was NOT in a tough spot. At least not compared to Canada.

~20% of EU Exports go to the USA.

>75% of Canada's Exports go to the USA. Canada is the one in a really tough spot, and will probably have to accept worse terms than the EU.

When countries like the UK and EU with much less at risk roll over, you really can't expect Canada with almost it's entire Export economy dependent on the USA to wage a trade war.

What is sad, is that collectively the world, was too stupid to have a united front.

The actual "deal" such as it is probably benefits Europe since Trump is a moron who is tariffing inputs (aluminum, steel, copper, etc) at much higher rates. A 15% tariff on say a European car imported to the US probably is better than the hit domestic automakers are taking. It's perverse and counter to Trump's stated goal but hey.

 

[manly]

EU was NOT in a tough spot. At least not compared to Canada.

~20% of EU Exports go to the USA.

>75% of Canada's Exports go to the USA. Canada is the one in a really tough spot, and will probably have to accept worse terms than the EU.

When countries like the UK and EU with much less at risk roll over, you really can't expect Canada with almost it's entire Export economy dependent on the USA to wage a trade war.

What is sad, is that collectively the world, was too stupid to have a united front.

You're right that Trump has both CA and MX over a barrel, and they both face economic ruin if they don't make a deal. I can't predict the future, but Canada thus far has given no indication they will capitulate to a wannabe tyrant.

OTOH Europe depends on the U.S. for security guarantees, and they know full well Trump will sell out both UA and NATO to Putin at the drop of a hat. Germany's economy is sputtering, so EU knew it had to make a deal. Does it seem like they got fleeced? Yes, it does appear so.

There are probably too many moving parts in global trade to have a united front against Trump. They'd have to very publicly "collude" and most of our traditional allies and trading partners would rather not get on Trump's shit list unless absolutely necessary.

 

[K1052]

You're right that Trump has both CA and MX over a barrel, and they both face economic ruin if they don't make a deal

It's more like mutually assured destruction which is why he's exempted so much of the CAN/MX trade from tariffs for now. Zeroing out trade with those countries would swiftly implode the US economy.

 

[Brainonska511]

It's more like mutually assured destruction which is why he's exempted so much of the CAN/MX trade from tariffs for now. Zeroing out trade with those countries would swiftly implode the US economy.

The bigger stupidity is that the tariffs haven't just been thrown straight into the trash with their shifting rationale and zero relation to any emergency.

 

[K1052]

The bigger stupidity is that the tariffs haven't just been thrown straight into the trash with their shifting rationale and zero relation to any emergency.

Yes, legally speaking it is entirely indefensible bullshit. Our courts are just too fucked to do anything about it.

 

[Brainonska511]

Yes, legally speaking it is entirely indefensible bullshit. Our courts are just too fucked to do anything about it.

District courts are trying, but then appeals courts and SCOTUS keep bending over backwards for the administration.

 

[manly]

It's more like mutually assured destruction which is why he's exempted so much of the CAN/MX trade from tariffs for now. Zeroing out trade with those countries would swiftly implode the US economy.

Very true for North American auto manufacturing, but is it true in general? How much Canadian crude oil do we need?

CA and MX are utterly dependent on the U.S. as a trading partner, which is why DJT has a ton of leverage. Sure, literally zeroing out all trade would be ruinous for N.A. but that isn't going to happen.

Even China, which is much more diversified and already playing the long game in global markets, doesn't want to lose the almighty American consumer at this time. Which is why all these countries are willing to make deals with an unreliable madman, and hoping much of this nonsense reverts in about 4-5 years.

 

[sdifox]

Yes, legally speaking it is entirely indefensible bullshit. Our courts are just too fucked to do anything about it.

Not courts, Congress.

 

[K1052]

Very true for North American auto manufacturing, but is it true in general? How much Canadian crude oil do we need?

CA and MX are utterly dependent on the U.S. as a trading partner, which is why DJT has a ton of leverage. Sure, literally zeroing out all trade would be ruinous for N.A. but that isn't going to happen.

Even China, which is much more diversified and already playing the long game in global markets, doesn't want to lose the almighty American consumer at this time. Which is why all these countries are willing to make deals with an unreliable madman, and hoping much of this nonsense reverts in about 4-5 years.

If the Canadians shut off the oil to PADD 2 the shit would almost instantly hit the fan. Ditto for electricity exports to the northeast say in the middle of a historic heat wave.

 

[K1052]

District courts are trying, but then appeals courts and SCOTUS keep bending over backwards for the administration.

As per usual.

 

[Heartbreaker]

If the Canadians shut off the oil to PADD 2 the shit would almost instantly hit the fan. Ditto for electricity exports to the northeast say in the middle of a historic heat wave.

Would never happen. Unlike the USA, Canada is NOT a dictatorship with central authority.

Canada is a democracy with rule of law, follows agreed to contracts, and provinces have their own provincial power. Alberta in particular is utterly dependent on oil exports and would never agree to shut them down, so that is not a serious threat under any circumstance short of a shooting war with the USA, which would last less than an hour...

 

[K1052]

Would never happen. Unlike the USA, Canada is NOT a dictatorship with central authority.

Canada is a democracy with rule of law, follows agreed to contracts, and provinces have their own provincial power. Alberta in particular is utterly dependent on oil exports and would never agree to shut them down, so that is not a serious threat under any circumstance short of a shooting war with the USA, which would last less than an hour...

If things went totally sideways other provinces could shut off the Enbridge and Keystone lines.

 

[Heartbreaker]

If things went totally sideways other provinces could shut off the Enbridge and Keystone lines.

I don't think Manitoba would be inclined to start a Civil War in Canada.

 

[K1052]

I don't think Manitoba would be inclined to start a Civil War in Canada.

In the event the Trump decided to really wreck the economy of Canada the likelihood that Alberta would be allowed to keep up business as usual while everybody else suffers badly is extremely doubtful.

 

[Indus]

So Trump has basically won and we'll have to pay the tariffs no matter what??