The Trouble Is the West

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

snip

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: Narmer
:laugh: You guys that like to categorize all Muslims as if they are one political bloc go ahead with your delusions and keep attacking them and invading their countries. When a nuke goes off in a Western capital, that's when I'm sure "the gloves will come off." But you'd only be digging yourself deeper. Hitler tried the same shit with Jews, blaming them for everything that was wrong with Germany. Look at how well that turned out.

Good luck with your muslim-hunting. This may be a tough one, but I'm willing to guess they'll out-live you.

You know Narmer, this is what I completely don't understand about folks like you (I don't know if you're Muslim or not, so I'll leave it as "folks like you"), and here it is:

Do you have any concept what's going to happen when a WMD type weapon is used on the US?

There aren't going to be any UN resolutions, no "coalition's", no with us or against us. The American public is going to go absolutely apesh1t - the sentiment right after 9/11 will look like general I hate going to work on Monday - and the very first absolute people who are going to start paying with "collarteral damage" type attacks are innocent Muslims around any and all known/suspected Muslim radicals.

You think Iraq has been bad for Muslims? Afghanistan? That's the US military vastly restrained. Do you think the US public is going to give a F*ck about Achmed (and more than they even do now?) if a WMD-type weapon is used here on US soil? There's going to be no restraint, no understanding, no compassion. This isn't some I'm a Rambo wannabe keyboard commando talking, this is what the American public are going to demand. The military Leadership will be literally frothing at the mouth to finally be totally gloves off. No way the POTUS - and you can forget about Congress being the rational check, we've seen what p*ssies they all are in the past 7 years - is not going to cut US armed forces/assets loose.

Given all this - and, it's a given, no matter how bad no one wants it to happen - you'd think "people like you" would be absolutely making sure/taking steps to reign in these F'ing wacko looney nutjob Islamic radicals.

But no, you take issue with the West dealing with radicals the Muslims themselves should be dealing with, so you go and bash the West (which means you're de facto on the radicals side).

Seriously, to what end do you think radical Islam spreading is going to bring the average Muslim?????

Chuck

WHAT A PILE OF BS! Another WMD boogeyman argument. And I quiet find your threats (either direct or indirect) as a brief summary of the west's relation with everyone else. Let's destroy countries let's bully everyone around and not ask questions, those who fight us will be labeled terrorist and the innocent will be labeled collateral and no one can stop us. So if some dipsht terrorist gets some kind of mini-WMD and detonates it in the US every Muslim around the world gets it????? That is your version of civilization? And that is better than what the terrorists are preaching how??

And sadly, that is pretty much how I expect the American public to react against us Muslims and Arabs here in the States should a nuke get blown up. There are so many ignorants in here (and I have found quiet a sample here in this very thread believe it or not). We would be hunted down like animals if they can if not worse and mustered up in camps awaiting death.

These are the cultures we moderate logical Muslims are facing, a bunch of backward regressive retards headed by Bin laden and the Iranian mullah's on one hand and on the other hand, a bunch of foaming at the mouth lets bring Christ back Muslims are the new devil crazy nutjobs. And we are stuck right in the middle of this fsckfest.
This fscking sucks in more ways than you or any other nutjob can understand.

I don't harbor any ill will towards anyone DarkThinker, Muslim or otherwise. Neither do most Americans. I don't think we should be involved in these other countries anymore than we absolutely have to, including trade, if they can't meet even basic American principles. People act like we have to trade and/or do business with some of these countries, and the simple fact is that we do not. In an ideal world we could simply leave them completely alone and let them mature...maybe in 500 years a woman who was raped won't be jailed and/or beaten because of it...who knows...

That's the ideal world though. Unfortunately, we live in reality. And reality is that America is not isolated from these wacko's by goat trails. The world is globalized, travel and shipping is what the world uses to function. Meaning: The delivery systems are already in place. It only takes a relatively few nutjobs to obtain some type of WMD, get it to mainland US (and it works out nicely where there are major ports of entry, there's major cities), and cook it off. That's all it's going to take.

If that were to happen, would US Muslims be put in camps? No, I highly doubt it. Would they all be registered, like it or not? Yep, I think so. Would you be automatically trusted as us mostly carefree trusing Americans usually do? Nope, that level of trust would be gone from most. But, US Muslims would have it easy...as long as the Muslims that cooked off the WMD came here relatively recently from overseas.

Given all that....and all that'll happen to Muslims overseas...tell us again why Mr. bin Laden hasn't been FedEx'd to us from Pakistan? Why POS' like the Taliban aren't getting crushed driven by "moderate" muslims?

This is what I just can't understand...it's like the average Muslim just think's it's going to be business as usual when one of their fringe loonies cooks off a WMD on US soil...where is that "logic" coming from????

Chuck

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

snip

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: Narmer
:laugh: You guys that like to categorize all Muslims as if they are one political bloc go ahead with your delusions and keep attacking them and invading their countries. When a nuke goes off in a Western capital, that's when I'm sure "the gloves will come off." But you'd only be digging yourself deeper. Hitler tried the same shit with Jews, blaming them for everything that was wrong with Germany. Look at how well that turned out.

Good luck with your muslim-hunting. This may be a tough one, but I'm willing to guess they'll out-live you.

You know Narmer, this is what I completely don't understand about folks like you (I don't know if you're Muslim or not, so I'll leave it as "folks like you"), and here it is:

Do you have any concept what's going to happen when a WMD type weapon is used on the US?

There aren't going to be any UN resolutions, no "coalition's", no with us or against us. The American public is going to go absolutely apesh1t - the sentiment right after 9/11 will look like general I hate going to work on Monday - and the very first absolute people who are going to start paying with "collarteral damage" type attacks are innocent Muslims around any and all known/suspected Muslim radicals.

You think Iraq has been bad for Muslims? Afghanistan? That's the US military vastly restrained. Do you think the US public is going to give a F*ck about Achmed (and more than they even do now?) if a WMD-type weapon is used here on US soil? There's going to be no restraint, no understanding, no compassion. This isn't some I'm a Rambo wannabe keyboard commando talking, this is what the American public are going to demand. The military Leadership will be literally frothing at the mouth to finally be totally gloves off. No way the POTUS - and you can forget about Congress being the rational check, we've seen what p*ssies they all are in the past 7 years - is not going to cut US armed forces/assets loose.

Given all this - and, it's a given, no matter how bad no one wants it to happen - you'd think "people like you" would be absolutely making sure/taking steps to reign in these F'ing wacko looney nutjob Islamic radicals.

But no, you take issue with the West dealing with radicals the Muslims themselves should be dealing with, so you go and bash the West (which means you're de facto on the radicals side).

Seriously, to what end do you think radical Islam spreading is going to bring the average Muslim?????

Chuck

WHAT A PILE OF BS! Another WMD boogeyman argument. And I quiet find your threats (either direct or indirect) as a brief summary of the west's relation with everyone else. Let's destroy countries let's bully everyone around and not ask questions, those who fight us will be labeled terrorist and the innocent will be labeled collateral and no one can stop us. So if some dipsht terrorist gets some kind of mini-WMD and detonates it in the US every Muslim around the world gets it????? That is your version of civilization? And that is better than what the terrorists are preaching how??

And sadly, that is pretty much how I expect the American public to react against us Muslims and Arabs here in the States should a nuke get blown up. There are so many ignorants in here (and I have found quiet a sample here in this very thread believe it or not). We would be hunted down like animals if they can if not worse and mustered up in camps awaiting death.

These are the cultures we moderate logical Muslims are facing, a bunch of backward regressive retards headed by Bin laden and the Iranian mullah's on one hand and on the other hand, a bunch of foaming at the mouth lets bring Christ back Muslims are the new devil crazy nutjobs. And we are stuck right in the middle of this fsckfest.
This fscking sucks in more ways than you or any other nutjob can understand.

I don't harbor any ill will towards anyone DarkThinker, Muslim or otherwise. Neither do most Americans. I don't think we should be involved in these other countries anymore than we absolutely have to, including trade, if they can't meet even basic American principles. People act like we have to trade and/or do business with some of these countries, and the simple fact is that we do not. In an ideal world we could simply leave them completely alone and let them mature...maybe in 500 years a woman who was raped won't be jailed and/or beaten because of it...who knows...

That's the ideal world though. Unfortunately, we live in reality. And reality is that America is not isolated from these wacko's by goat trails. The world is globalized, travel and shipping is what the world uses to function. Meaning: The delivery systems are already in place. It only takes a relatively few nutjobs to obtain some type of WMD, get it to mainland US (and it works out nicely where there are major ports of entry, there's major cities), and cook it off. That's all it's going to take.

If that were to happen, would US Muslims be put in camps? No, I highly doubt it. Would they all be registered, like it or not? Yep, I think so. Would you be automatically trusted as us mostly carefree trusing Americans usually do? Nope, that level of trust would be gone from most. But, US Muslims would have it easy...as long as the Muslims that cooked off the WMD came here relatively recently from overseas.

Given all that....and all that'll happen to Muslims overseas...tell us again why Mr. bin Laden hasn't been FedEx'd to us from Pakistan? Why POS' like the Taliban aren't getting crushed driven by "moderate" muslims?

This is what I just can't understand...it's like the average Muslim just think's it's going to be business as usual when one of their fringe loonies cooks off a WMD on US soil...where is that "logic" coming from????

Chuck

Look at the hypocritical American foreign policy in that region and then try to ask your questions again with a straight-face.

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: Narmer

There are muslims that are doing something about it. As Darkthinker pointed out, there are muslims caught in the middle. Some people don't give a damn about Al Qaeda and America. They just want a country that belongs to them, not some "king" or "President for life" that acts like an American stooge. What happens to people like that? They are automatically labelled as terrorists and the world wants to see them killed.

That's cool, I can understand average Achmed Muslim in Iraq not giving two sh1ts about AQ or the US, he's got a family to provide for, a life to live, and that's all fine and dandy...I wish him and the 100's of millions like him the very best.

I do not understand by what you mean as American Stooge? In case you haven't noticed, trading with America is a good thing (hint: Ask China how it's working out for them...). It's not the US's fault if the elected Leadership in these countries is corrupt. If/When the people there get tired of it, they'll either vote to get them out, or, overthrow them; we should all take bets on Iran, I think Adwhateverhisnameis will be (unfortunately) re-elected. Really I'm not sure where you got people are labeled as terrorists for supporting an anti-US Leader. We don't label Venezuela a terrorist state, even though their "Leader" is going Dictator on them and is decidedly anti-US.

BTW, if you feel so strongly about what you just wrote, you need to be condemning that bitch and Jaskalas for his beliefs.

I don't really know if "that b1tch" is right or wrong - although I do like her point on basically publically and loudly calling BS on some of the messages radical Islam delivers, i.e. stop being so p*ssywhipped and PC - so I'm not to go "condemning" her, or Jackalas.

Chuck

 

[Ozoned]

It's to bad this Bitch doesn't know her place. (read my sig.)

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Look at the hypocritical American foreign policy in that region and then try to ask your questions again with a straight-face.

What hypocritical American foreign policy in that region?

We've spent almost 4,000 of our own lives in liberating Iraq and trying to get it up on it's own feet...and the people who are fighting us are either AQI, or Iraqi's themselves.

We're dropping the ball in Afghanistan, but it's the same sort of deal there.

What would you have the US do in the ME Narmer?

I'm all for going hands off on Israel, however I really don't think anyone except Israel in the ME would like that....so what do you want the US to do?

We can leave the ME, that's all well and good. But what happens when the brutal radicals start cowing the population (as we see happening in Africa) and then we've got another NW Pakistan on our hands?

Chuck

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
It's to bad this Bitch doesn't know her place. (read my sig.)

Doesn't "They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them." leave a lot of room for interpretation? I mean, when we come into this world, we're naked. So basically God hasn't guarded anything on us.

Is Islam really saying women should walk around naked? If so, we need to get Islam be the official world religion ASAP. (Maybe it could be in like a Cover if you're not hawt clause or something though? Please?)

Chuck

 

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

snip

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: Narmer
:laugh: You guys that like to categorize all Muslims as if they are one political bloc go ahead with your delusions and keep attacking them and invading their countries. When a nuke goes off in a Western capital, that's when I'm sure "the gloves will come off." But you'd only be digging yourself deeper. Hitler tried the same shit with Jews, blaming them for everything that was wrong with Germany. Look at how well that turned out.

Good luck with your muslim-hunting. This may be a tough one, but I'm willing to guess they'll out-live you.

You know Narmer, this is what I completely don't understand about folks like you (I don't know if you're Muslim or not, so I'll leave it as "folks like you"), and here it is:

Do you have any concept what's going to happen when a WMD type weapon is used on the US?

There aren't going to be any UN resolutions, no "coalition's", no with us or against us. The American public is going to go absolutely apesh1t - the sentiment right after 9/11 will look like general I hate going to work on Monday - and the very first absolute people who are going to start paying with "collarteral damage" type attacks are innocent Muslims around any and all known/suspected Muslim radicals.

You think Iraq has been bad for Muslims? Afghanistan? That's the US military vastly restrained. Do you think the US public is going to give a F*ck about Achmed (and more than they even do now?) if a WMD-type weapon is used here on US soil? There's going to be no restraint, no understanding, no compassion. This isn't some I'm a Rambo wannabe keyboard commando talking, this is what the American public are going to demand. The military Leadership will be literally frothing at the mouth to finally be totally gloves off. No way the POTUS - and you can forget about Congress being the rational check, we've seen what p*ssies they all are in the past 7 years - is not going to cut US armed forces/assets loose.

Given all this - and, it's a given, no matter how bad no one wants it to happen - you'd think "people like you" would be absolutely making sure/taking steps to reign in these F'ing wacko looney nutjob Islamic radicals.

But no, you take issue with the West dealing with radicals the Muslims themselves should be dealing with, so you go and bash the West (which means you're de facto on the radicals side).

Seriously, to what end do you think radical Islam spreading is going to bring the average Muslim?????

Chuck

WHAT A PILE OF BS! Another WMD boogeyman argument. And I quiet find your threats (either direct or indirect) as a brief summary of the west's relation with everyone else. Let's destroy countries let's bully everyone around and not ask questions, those who fight us will be labeled terrorist and the innocent will be labeled collateral and no one can stop us. So if some dipsht terrorist gets some kind of mini-WMD and detonates it in the US every Muslim around the world gets it????? That is your version of civilization? And that is better than what the terrorists are preaching how??

And sadly, that is pretty much how I expect the American public to react against us Muslims and Arabs here in the States should a nuke get blown up. There are so many ignorants in here (and I have found quiet a sample here in this very thread believe it or not). We would be hunted down like animals if they can if not worse and mustered up in camps awaiting death.

These are the cultures we moderate logical Muslims are facing, a bunch of backward regressive retards headed by Bin laden and the Iranian mullah's on one hand and on the other hand, a bunch of foaming at the mouth lets bring Christ back Muslims are the new devil crazy nutjobs. And we are stuck right in the middle of this fsckfest.
This fscking sucks in more ways than you or any other nutjob can understand.

I don't harbor any ill will towards anyone DarkThinker, Muslim or otherwise. Neither do most Americans. I don't think we should be involved in these other countries anymore than we absolutely have to, including trade, if they can't meet even basic American principles. People act like we have to trade and/or do business with some of these countries, and the simple fact is that we do not. In an ideal world we could simply leave them completely alone and let them mature...maybe in 500 years a woman who was raped won't be jailed and/or beaten because of it...who knows...

That's the ideal world though. Unfortunately, we live in reality. And reality is that America is not isolated from these wacko's by goat trails. The world is globalized, travel and shipping is what the world uses to function. Meaning: The delivery systems are already in place. It only takes a relatively few nutjobs to obtain some type of WMD, get it to mainland US (and it works out nicely where there are major ports of entry, there's major cities), and cook it off. That's all it's going to take.

If that were to happen, would US Muslims be put in camps? No, I highly doubt it. Would they all be registered, like it or not? Yep, I think so. Would you be automatically trusted as us mostly carefree trusing Americans usually do? Nope, that level of trust would be gone from most. But, US Muslims would have it easy...as long as the Muslims that cooked off the WMD came here relatively recently from overseas.

Given all that....and all that'll happen to Muslims overseas...tell us again why Mr. bin Laden hasn't been FedEx'd to us from Pakistan? Why POS' like the Taliban aren't getting crushed driven by "moderate" muslims?

This is what I just can't understand...it's like the average Muslim just think's it's going to be business as usual when one of their fringe loonies cooks off a WMD on US soil...where is that "logic" coming from????

Chuck

Yet you gladly do HUGE business with a communist anti-individual liberty country such as China, spare me your theories about trade please.
Also will you stop using what happens in Saudi Arabia as what happens in every country there is Muslims in please? Saudi Arabia is filled to the brim with Wahabis, people who I don't really see as true Muslims for the most part, they have their own views and philosophy.

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: Narmer

Look at the hypocritical American foreign policy in that region and then try to ask your questions again with a straight-face.

What hypocritical American foreign policy in that region?

We've spent almost 4,000 of our own lives in liberating Iraq and trying to get it up on it's own feet...and the people who are fighting us are either AQI, or Iraqi's themselves.

We're dropping the ball in Afghanistan, but it's the same sort of deal there.

What would you have the US do in the ME Narmer?

I'm all for going hands off on Israel, however I really don't think anyone except Israel in the ME would like that....so what do you want the US to do?

We can leave the ME, that's all well and good. But what happens when the brutal radicals start cowing the population (as we see happening in Africa) and then we've got another NW Pakistan on our hands?

Chuck

Have you asked yourself why those radicals are willing to die going after us in the first place? People like you are giving them the platform to stay in existence and grow. Stop invading colonizing/raping countries, then support for radicals will shrink and the moderates would overcome again. That is but a pipe dream though, that's the only oil in the world we can freely control if we fight enough and that is the object, that and the strategic land, don't fool yourself, any country in power would go for that.
And before you look at the radicals oversees, why don't you fell free ATM to look at the radicals in this country? Their methods might seem to the naked eye better sophisticated, their intentions however are just as sinister.
And are you telling me that the US gladly offered 4000 of it's sons and daughters for the sake of Iraqi's well being? No one is that gullible maybe here but not in the ME. Most Americans don't buy it ATM either thank God.

 

[Ozoned]

We don't colonize, dumbass. We simply control their oil. When it's gone the problems will be gone also.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: Pabster
"The drawback is, in this case, that ?let?s learn from experience? means other people?s lives will be taken."

Sad, but yet so utterly true. When will the pacifists and appeasers wake the fuck up?

Sad, because it's so utterly UN-true. When will murderer supporting idiots wake the fuck up?

 

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
We don't colonize, dumbass. We simply control their oil. When it's gone the problems will be gone also.

Don't call me dumbass you IDIOT! It's pretty clear that I used it in a more of a figurative way than an actual one.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: Narmer

Look at the hypocritical American foreign policy in that region and then try to ask your questions again with a straight-face.

What hypocritical American foreign policy in that region?

We've spent almost 4,000 of our own lives in liberating Iraq and trying to get it up on it's own feet...and the people who are fighting us are either AQI, or Iraqi's themselves.

We're dropping the ball in Afghanistan, but it's the same sort of deal there.

What would you have the US do in the ME Narmer?

I'm all for going hands off on Israel, however I really don't think anyone except Israel in the ME would like that....so what do you want the US to do?

We can leave the ME, that's all well and good. But what happens when the brutal radicals start cowing the population (as we see happening in Africa) and then we've got another NW Pakistan on our hands?

Chuck

liberating?:laugh: Was that supposed to be a joke or do you honestly believed that you liberated the iraqis?

 

[tvarad]

Rainsford:

"Muslim cab drivers who don't want to drive around with alcohol are treated the same as terrorists who blow up buildings."

Rainsford, you've highlighted the problem here. A cab driver is licensed to pick up and drop off people for a fare, not indulge in moral policing. When I paid my taxes to build and run Minneapolis/St. Paul airport, I paid into a system that gives me a hassle-free taxi service without running a moral police gauntlet. The license to run a taxi is a privilege, not a right. Just like driving on the road. Just because people looked the other way so far doesn't mean that they will in the future.

 

[tvarad]

Narmer

"Look at the hypocritical American foreign policy in that region and then try to ask your questions again with a straight-face."

When you're dealing with a tribal mindset stuck in the middle ages, you're not going to get the same foreign policy as dealing with a country that has modernized it's thoughts. BTW, why don't the Vietnamese, on whom more bombs were dropped than in WWII, whine against the U.S. with the same intensity as the Islamic world? If anything, the U.S. has become it's largest trading partner. Compare that with Iran where the mullahs even today rant and rave about what happened in the 50s.

Here is a fact: more muslims by an order of magnitude have been killed at the hands of a fellow muslims than by non-muslims.

Here is a question: in how many islamic countries (including those that oppose the west) has power passed peacefully from one person/govt to the other in recent times? p.s. ruler for life being replaced by his son on death doesn't count.

Here is another question: how many muslim countries give the same equal citizenship rights to non-muslims that is taken for granted in the west through the maxim "all individuals are equal under the law"?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker
What a bunch of ILLUSIONISTS you guys are. Your facts are misleading mostly and when that is pointed out you (by a minority here) you somehow jump and explain it away! Thank you magomago, ranmaniac, Narmer and others for pointing out the hypocrisy and ignorance of this click.

First it was Islam encourages mistreatment of women (mutilations in the case and other stuff), then it turned out it had nothing to do with it. Then you moved to flag burning then that crap turned out to be so common in the world that no one of you cared to object or find out. Then it turned out Ali is a lier and when it comes to the "FACTS" she stated, a big liar and all of the sudden that is fine. Next stop Ali admits that she took this campaign on Islam and Muslims of all types for her own advantage and that would be explained away too.

What I see in this thread, is a clear indiscriminate and active campaign by Jaskalas and his click promoting the destruction of Islam and all who say they want to follow it or do follow it in any way. Not even moderate Muslims got spared. So a moderate Muslim who has spent his whole life fighting extremism either with his tongue or his hand or even both finds out that he is looked down as the same way the extremist are looked down by the west, then he is like WTF MAN?

I have no respect for you people, keep your head in the sand and keep shouting " MURDER!" while ignoring the "MURDERS" of your own kind. It's the murder of intellect and alienation and you guys are doing a very well job at it too I might add.

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: Narmer
:laugh: You guys that like to categorize all Muslims as if they are one political bloc go ahead with your delusions and keep attacking them and invading their countries. When a nuke goes off in a Western capital, that's when I'm sure "the gloves will come off." But you'd only be digging yourself deeper. Hitler tried the same shit with Jews, blaming them for everything that was wrong with Germany. Look at how well that turned out.

Good luck with your muslim-hunting. This may be a tough one, but I'm willing to guess they'll out-live you.

You know Narmer, this is what I completely don't understand about folks like you (I don't know if you're Muslim or not, so I'll leave it as "folks like you"), and here it is:

Do you have any concept what's going to happen when a WMD type weapon is used on the US?

There aren't going to be any UN resolutions, no "coalition's", no with us or against us. The American public is going to go absolutely apesh1t - the sentiment right after 9/11 will look like general I hate going to work on Monday - and the very first absolute people who are going to start paying with "collarteral damage" type attacks are innocent Muslims around any and all known/suspected Muslim radicals.

You think Iraq has been bad for Muslims? Afghanistan? That's the US military vastly restrained. Do you think the US public is going to give a F*ck about Achmed (and more than they even do now?) if a WMD-type weapon is used here on US soil? There's going to be no restraint, no understanding, no compassion. This isn't some I'm a Rambo wannabe keyboard commando talking, this is what the American public are going to demand. The military Leadership will be literally frothing at the mouth to finally be totally gloves off. No way the POTUS - and you can forget about Congress being the rational check, we've seen what p*ssies they all are in the past 7 years - is not going to cut US armed forces/assets loose.

Given all this - and, it's a given, no matter how bad no one wants it to happen - you'd think "people like you" would be absolutely making sure/taking steps to reign in these F'ing wacko looney nutjob Islamic radicals.

But no, you take issue with the West dealing with radicals the Muslims themselves should be dealing with, so you go and bash the West (which means you're de facto on the radicals side).

Seriously, to what end do you think radical Islam spreading is going to bring the average Muslim?????

Chuck

WHAT A PILE OF BS! Another WMD boogeyman argument. And I quiet find your threats (either direct or indirect) as a brief summary of the west's relation with everyone else. Let's destroy countries let's bully everyone around and not ask questions, those who fight us will be labeled terrorist and the innocent will be labeled collateral and no one can stop us. So if some dipsht terrorist gets some kind of mini-WMD and detonates it in the US every Muslim around the world gets it????? That is your version of civilization? And that is better than what the terrorists are preaching how??

And sadly, that is pretty much how I expect the American public to react against us Muslims and Arabs here in the States should a nuke get blown up. There are so many ignorants in here (and I have found quiet a sample here in this very thread believe it or not). We would be hunted down like animals if they can if not worse and mustered up in camps awaiting death.

These are the cultures we moderate logical Muslims are facing, a bunch of backward regressive retards headed by Bin laden and the Iranian mullah's on one hand and on the other hand, a bunch of foaming at the mouth lets bring Christ back Muslims are the new devil crazy nutjobs. And we are stuck right in the middle of this fsckfest.
This fscking sucks in more ways than you or any other nutjob can understand.

:thumbsup:

It's hard to decide who is the bigger threat to Islam. People like Ayyan or people like OBL. It's a very sad state muslims have come to but it's partly their own fault. However t American interference has been a major motivator for recent violence.

I think some of the mulsim rulings and violent protests in the name of Islam are silly. Take the verdict in Sudan for example; it's hard to believe that these are the same muslims who made a man that wrote derogatory stuff about the Prophet during his time one of their governors who was later a commander for the first civil war and said what eventually bought about EVERY schism in Islam.

It seems like most of today's "muslim" leaders are followers of that man. They will do anything to come to power; be it kill hundreds of innocents - even muslims. And it has always been men like these that have bought the muslims to the state at which the currently stand - slaves of their western masters.

Having said that; comments like these only spark a conflict between the West and Islam. I Can't understand how Americans and Islamic militants can call themselves "civilized" when instead of debating their ideologies they spread it by force. I see this so called war on terror an attempt by Bush to spread "Democracy" as nothing better than the spread of Nazism by the Nazis granted that the former maybe superior. I think you Americans seem to base your beliefs that "Democracy is superior to Islam" on the sole fact that American's are far ahead of muslims in most fields of life. However; if you study history closely; the only reason muslims are backward is because of their own greed; not because of Islam itself. There are other aspects of civilization which Americans have lost.

What style of rule is superior should be debated in a more civilized manner rather than having scores settled by using force and influence. The practical application of democracy is a hoax with most power and policies being dictated by money rather than intellect.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: tvarad
Rainsford:

"Muslim cab drivers who don't want to drive around with alcohol are treated the same as terrorists who blow up buildings."

Rainsford, you've highlighted the problem here. A cab driver is licensed to pick up and drop off people for a fare, not indulge in moral policing. When I paid my taxes to build and run Minneapolis/St. Paul airport, I paid into a system that gives me a hassle-free taxi service without running a moral police gauntlet. The license to run a taxi is a privilege, not a right. Just like driving on the road. Just because people looked the other way so far doesn't mean that they will in the future.

Yes I agree; Living in a foreign country I must respect its laws - the same should apply for them living in ours. If I was the taxi driver I would look for another job.

 

[tvarad]

The Green Bean:

"What style of rule is superior should be debated in a more civilized manner rather than having scores settled by using force and influence. The practical application of democracy is a hoax with most power and policies being dictated by money rather than intellect."

It may be a hoax but it's the gospel truth when you look around and see the alternative forms of governance available.

And as you yourself have noted, it took less than a generation for a revealed political system like Islam to degenerate into a free-for-all grab for power, true to human nature.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: tvarad
The Green Bean:

"What style of rule is superior should be debated in a more civilized manner rather than having scores settled by using force and influence. The practical application of democracy is a hoax with most power and policies being dictated by money rather than intellect."

It may be a hoax but it's the gospel truth when you look around and see the alternative forms of governance available.

And as you yourself have noted, it took less than a generation for a revealed political system like Islam to degenerate into a free-for-all grab for power, true to human nature.

It's happened since the beginning; and all that happened because of the unfortunate events that followed the demise of the Prophet. There is a difference between the alternative forms of governance available and the alternative forms of government currently employed.

Anyone's decision on what is good and what is bad is based on how he/she views that thing. And it is highly hypocritical to believe in freedom and then impose upon others what you decide is good or bad.

 

[tvarad]

The Green Bean:

"Anyone's decision on what is good and what is bad is based on how he/she views that thing. And it is highly hypocritical to believe in freedom and then impose upon others what you decide is good or bad."

It's not imposition. It's adult supervision.

 

[piasabird]

Interesting Article. One thing it obvoiusly recommended is giving no consideration at all to the wishes of muslims. No recognition at universities and not recognition or special privliges at any public schools. This is how the Muslim Extremests work. Take a look at France when Muslims do not get their way they start burning cars and destroying property. France responds with rubber bullets. What a joke. How will that stop these muslim extremists? If you let them get away with murder they will keep coming, and they will keep demanding more and more. It is like a cancer growing out of control.

It is not that the west can not tolerate people of different religions. (In most locations) Admittedly, there are some countries where Protestants and Catholics clearly have issues, like Ireland, which is hard for people in the USA to understand. In the USA we have fought long and hard for the freedom of people to practice their own religion. At the same time, in the USA, we are very much against any religion being interjected into politics. We clearly support a separation of government and religion. Some muslim extremists on the other hand want religion fanatics for their political rulers, and want to force Muslim laws on everyone. This will never stand in the USA. We would probably start burning down their places of worship and rounding them up if this happened. We keep the peace here so every religion can flourish, and people have the right to worship and believe in or not believe in whatever they want.

People in politics on the Left should be very careful how they make exceptions for Muslims. They wont make any friends by embracing muslims. We are suppose to have a separation of church and state and that applies to all religions.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: tvarad
Like the Germans and Japanese pre-WWII, when they didn't stand up to the Nazis and militant imperialism respectively, they became part of the problem which was solved via WWII. If "peaceful Muslims" do not stand up to the Islamo-fascists within their midst, they too become part of the problem. It is better to start pointing fingers now like she is doing to avoid WWIII.

You'd think people would learn from history, but it has a funny way of repeating itself.

I've said time and time again that all this apathy and pacifism, along with the appeasement mentality of half this country is going to bring about serious consequences. Unfortunately, the average American won't realize it until American Idol can't broadcast :roll:

Were the Japanese interment camps in the US a mistake? Or was it a necessary evil? Or was it a gross violation of US citizens' rights based on a not totally irrational fear? Or does any of that matter? When you start crushing rights out of fear you become something fundamentally different than that which you are trying to protect anyway. Why bother protecting American values if in doing so we abandon them?

Yes, let's learn from all the mistakes of history. Appeasement and overreaction. Shutting down all muslim schools in the US? Why not just repeal the 1st amendment?

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker
What I see in this thread, is a clear indiscriminate and active campaign by Jaskalas and his click promoting the destruction of Islam and all who say they want to follow it or do follow it in any way. Not even moderate Muslims got spared. So a moderate Muslim who has spent his whole life fighting extremism either with his tongue or his hand or even both finds out that he is looked down as the same way the extremist are looked down by the west, then he is like WTF MAN?

Wanting Muslims to reign in their radicals, and to secure ourselves in our homeland when they decide instead to ally with the radicals is in your dishonest view equal to killing every single Muslim on the planet? WTF MAN?

My demand is that our nation becomes a melting pot again. That we assimilate and dismantle the separatist entity on our own soil.

I have no respect for you people, keep your head in the sand and keep shouting " MURDER!" while ignoring the "MURDERS" of your own kind. It's the murder of intellect and alienation and you guys are doing a very well job at it too I might add.

If you?re done frothing in your great intellect over KILLING ALL THE MUSLIMS!!!!, I?d like to point out that self preservation is a pretty important aspect of staying alive. Caring about our murderers is a natural thing, and you?d rather have us lay down quietly for the kill?

It?s really a matter of priorities. If it were Christians who took town the twin towers, there would be a tremendous upheaval against the more radical Christian elements in this nation. That isn?t what happened though, and frankly I?ve no concern about our prosecution of them. While all the liberals might mention Oklahoma City, they fail to point out that we took care of that. We did not respond with support of that bombing, instead we killed the bomber.

Now back to the point at hand, the priority is to focus on our assailant.

I understand if, fitting the profile, you?d have a problem with that. Yet rest assured if Islam really is peace as the British TV commercials describe, then we won?t be attacked again by your profile and you then won?t have to worry about a thing.

On the other hand, if I?m right and your profile does continue to strike us then you might, for good reasons, regret having argued for them and not openly with us in stopping them.

Let me repeat my statement, which is probably forgotten by now: I?m not for genocide against anyone, but I am for protecting this nation and that clearly means persecuting and stopping the festering of radical elements on our soil.

WHAT A PILE OF BS! Another WMD boogeyman argument?

I?d like to point out that if we do not uphold Mutual Assured Destruction when we?re struck, it would be a crystal clear signal to the rest of the world that the great peacemaker of the last fifty years no longer exists.

I leave you to imagine for yourself the results of that.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: yllus
I agree with her on exactly one point: The West should cease being apologetic and tolerant of absolutely every viewpoint it faces, including that which cries for its collective destruction.
...

Edit: Cliff Notes: The problem is that everyone talks about fighting assholes who hijack planes and fly them into buildings, but they always want to do it by going after the Minneapolis cab driver who won't transport alcohol in his cab.

What you're a great example of is exactly the type of person that Tony Blair was trying to get his message across to.

One of the things we?ve got to stop doing is stop apologizing for our own positions.

If the Minneapolis cab driver won't transport alcohol in his cab, that is not hunky-dory and we'll just shrug, get out of the cab and go on our way. Raise a fuss. Defend our values and positions. If he won't relent, try to get him fired.

Doing so is not disrespectful of his views - he's still absolutely allowed to hold them. But nowhere is it guaranteed that you can hold any view you want and not have to answer for them. Listen to Mr. Blair.

 

[tvarad]

sirjonk:

"Or was it a gross violation of US citizens' rights based on a not totally irrational fear?"


Well, the difference between then and now is that the 9/11 perpetrators didn't launch their attack from aircraft carriers from some far away place like it happened at Pearl Harbor. They did it by hiding amongst the population using the very tools of U.S. society. So the fear is not entirely irrational.

And in this shrinking world, Muslims are not being helped when some of their compatriots put a teacher on trial with the possibility of death for an innocent mistake as in Sudan, or trying the victim of rape for adultery as in Saudi Arabia, or hounding a writer like Taslima Nasreen when she holds up a mirror to the Islamic face. Or the case of the lady that started this thread.

The fear therefore is well-founded.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: tvarad
sirjonk:

"Or was it a gross violation of US citizens' rights based on a not totally irrational fear?"


Well, the difference between then and now is that the 9/11 perpetrators didn't launch their attack from aircraft carriers from some far away place like it happened at Pearl Harbor. They did it by hiding amongst the population using the very tools of U.S. society. So the fear is not entirely irrational.

And in this shrinking world, Muslims are not being helped when some of their compatriots put a teacher on trial with the possibility of death for an innocent mistake as in Sudan, or trying the victim of rape for adultery as in Saudi Arabia, or hounding a writer like Taslima Nasreen when she holds up a mirror to the Islamic face. Or the case of the lady that started this thread.

The fear therefore is well-founded.

Perhaps you misunderstood me, but I was saying the fear of Japanese spies during WWII was not irrational, just as the fear of muslim extremists is not irrational. But the disproportionate US response to that fear back then, locking up every japanese citizen the government could find, was a surrendering of our values. Going on the warpath against an entire religion today, calling for an end to all Muslim schools and teaching, and condeming the beliefs of 1.5+ billion people is also an overreaction. There is a threat, but turning the US into Oceania isn't going to make our lives safer or better.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: piasabird
People in politics on the Left should be very careful how they make exceptions for Muslims. They wont make any friends by embracing muslims. We are supposed to have a separation of church and state and that applies to all religions.

:thumbsup: