The torture tape fingering Bush as a war criminal

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: alejandroAT
I do the same, except i am not a sarcastic prick

Then you have no business being in P&N.


Moonbeam - your arguments strike me like some I've tried to make when arguing Big Bang theory. It's like explaining the nature of the Universe to a goldfish in a bowl. He already knows that the Universe consists of a water-filled transparent sphere. Use the word "billion" and you get a buffer overflow error, resulting in "deity" as the answer.

I find that your sig quote, "It may not be so much a matter that I'm far out, but rather that you have never been anywhere," seems quite applicable to your arguments here. Mental weaponry is unique from physical weapons - your opponents need to comprehend the attack they are to endure, or else the weapon is entirely useless. Once they understand this little piece of information, they are then able to maintain their immunity by continued, deliberate misunderstanding of attempts to explain the weaponry to them, so that it might be rendered effective against them. Ignorance remains a very effective shield to some.

The beauty, of course, is that while ignorance is an effective shield, it becomes visible only when it is used. As they say, it's better to let people think you are a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. People pass right by good sense, but if you poke them in the ego all hell breaks lose.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
M: You were trying to make fun of me? Hehe, and all I felt was pity. I'd think you'll need some style to mock me.

That's where you're mistaken. No style whatsoever is required to mock you.

M: Huh? Anyway, you are too stupid to be impressed.

You appear to be quite an expert on stupid. I'll give you that much.

M: Yes, you keep posting about how little I affect you. Moonbeam is a grain of sand that's become a pearl.

If you're lucky one day a cute little Asian girl may free you from your shell too.

M: I've had my epiphany long ago and it was to discover that I am you. What's right for me IS what's right for you. You just don't know it because you're unepiphafied.

You were part of me earlier this morning. But a wipe and a flush sent you on your way.

M: My caravan of riches has arrived and I have all for which I've ever strived.

No wait:

My caravan of riches has arriven and I have all for which I've ever striven.

There, that's better.

Your job's not finished though. Time to unload the camels. Better start humping it.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: alejandroAT
CAUTION : European Joining in!!!!

Hey guys. Sorry to jump into the middle of your national argument once more but I've followed this thread and it looks like an honest broker might be helpful.

The Bigger Picture was mentioned.

Please excuse me if I am wrong (or excessively arrogant) but I do not think any American who hasn't made a trip abroad recently (and by abroad i mean outside of any massive hotel complexes ) has any clue of what the bigger picture is. I know the US media are doing anything in their power to keep reality from the average Joe The US media are doing everything in their power to communicate to us the message you post here and I also know that every American who feels the need to know a little bit more of the truth uses the internet. But even those few web pages that provide this information are not enough to portray the damage the USA are doing to themselves.
This damage is evident in the small talk between people; in the everyday life events that show what the common perception of America is these days. The expressions Europeans use like "homicidal like an American" or "Stupid as Bush" that are used throughout Europe are only two examples. Nice to see you're obsessed with us. Too bad we don't return the favor. We're I humble as you, I might make a suggestion how you run your own country. For example, if you're French it might be better to focus on the riots in the your streets instead of if the USA etc.

There are posters here who evidently measure a country's status financially. If that was the case then the USA would not have a status any different to China's (where a human life is cheaper than a bagel - so you got no problems denigrading the Chinese either. The air must be rather thin up on that high moral ground where you stand looking down at all others ) or Saudi Arabia's.
These posters ponder on how the USA might benefit from a possible impeachment or indeed trial of a president if that president has committed war crimes. They think it would be a national disgrace as they put it.

This logic implies that the countless leaders and generals and presidents that the USA has executed or waged wars against during the past decades were wronged greatly! It implies that there are two rules and two scales and what applies to us does not apply to the rest. It is the logic that costs you to lose allies and friends by the day.Losing allies? That's odd, I thought France & Germsany recently pro-American leaders. It is the logic that damages America and turns the Statue of Liberty into a horrific joke not cyan but red holding bombs instead of the flame while mocking you with a sneer.

I honestly ask of you my friends to explain to me, a foreigner, how America is behaving any different to its enemies. If you jihadists, the answer is pretty obvious: we don't behead people, chop their limbs or purposefully target civilians etc The average European needs to have it explained because we just don't get it! Is it the language? Is it the fashion or the movies? what makes you think that your way is always the just or moral way? Your preceeding sentance looks to be a classic case of projection When the British discovered what happened in Graib some real shit rained down! And i find people here that don't even care that their country has tortured! Do these "people" honestly think that it matters WHO you torture? Do they fail to realize that at the moment when you decide to mimic your enemy and engage in their techniques IMO, it's wild exaggeration to say we engage in their techniques you become them to the eyes of your peers? It could be an AQ member or it could be a 10 year old fragile girl it really makes no difference. I couldn't disagree more. Nor do I see any basis whatsoever to compare AQ members to 10 year old girls.


But hey, you guys elected an ex CIA head to the white house....and we are discussing whether torture condoned by his son is moral or not......To our eyes (the rest of the world) you appear dangerous, aggressive, and to tell you the truth somewhat homicidal. Fair enough, we basically are. Terrorist attacks on civilians have a way of provoking that response from us.

And that's the bigger picture whether you like it or not. Sorry if i woke anyone up from their dream.

See bolded remarks above.

I see you're so courageous you don't have a profile. Don't wanna let us know what country your from, eh?

Yeah, I've lived in England, Germany & France. Go to Italy about every year to visit my wife's family. I suppose as a whole we Americans care about your opinions of us the same as you guys care about ours of you.

Fern

 

[Moonbeam]

TLC: That's where you're mistaken. No style whatsoever is required to mock you.

M: For you to mock, of course, but for me to notice you haven't the style to get to first base.

TLC: You appear to be quite an expert on stupid. I'll give you that much.

M: I'll let others judge how bright that retort was.

TLC: If you're lucky one day a cute little Asian girl may free you from your shell too.

M: Yup, I become a gem and you get chucked in the garbage.

TLC: You were part of me earlier this morning. But a wipe and a flush sent you on your way.

M: He steps off his trike and becomes a Scatologist. Weeeee!

TLC: Your job's not finished though. Time to unload the camels. Better start humping it.

M: Boy, your really hung up over body functions. Mommy must have spanked you butt for pooping in your pants and masturbating. Therapy might help.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: alejandroAT
CAUTION : European Joining in!!!!

Hey guys. Sorry to jump into the middle of your national argument once more but I've followed this thread and it looks like an honest broker might be helpful.

The Bigger Picture was mentioned.

Please excuse me if I am wrong (or excessively arrogant) but I do not think any American who hasn't made a trip abroad recently (and by abroad i mean outside of any massive hotel complexes ) has any clue of what the bigger picture is. I know the US media are doing anything in their power to keep reality from the average Joe The US media are doing everything in their power to communicate to us the message you post here and I also know that every American who feels the need to know a little bit more of the truth uses the internet. But even those few web pages that provide this information are not enough to portray the damage the USA are doing to themselves.
This damage is evident in the small talk between people; in the everyday life events that show what the common perception of America is these days. The expressions Europeans use like "homicidal like an American" or "Stupid as Bush" that are used throughout Europe are only two examples. Nice to see you're obsessed with us. Too bad we don't return the favor. We're I humble as you, I might make a suggestion how you run your own country. For example, if you're French it might be better to focus on the riots in the your streets instead of if the USA etc.

There are posters here who evidently measure a country's status financially. If that was the case then the USA would not have a status any different to China's (where a human life is cheaper than a bagel - so you got no problems denigrading the Chinese either. The air must be rather thin up on that high moral ground where you stand looking down at all others ) or Saudi Arabia's.
These posters ponder on how the USA might benefit from a possible impeachment or indeed trial of a president if that president has committed war crimes. They think it would be a national disgrace as they put it.

This logic implies that the countless leaders and generals and presidents that the USA has executed or waged wars against during the past decades were wronged greatly! It implies that there are two rules and two scales and what applies to us does not apply to the rest. It is the logic that costs you to lose allies and friends by the day.Losing allies? That's odd, I thought France & Germsany recently pro-American leaders. It is the logic that damages America and turns the Statue of Liberty into a horrific joke not cyan but red holding bombs instead of the flame while mocking you with a sneer.

I honestly ask of you my friends to explain to me, a foreigner, how America is behaving any different to its enemies. If you jihadists, the answer is pretty obvious: we don't behead people, chop their limbs or purposefully target civilians etc The average European needs to have it explained because we just don't get it! Is it the language? Is it the fashion or the movies? what makes you think that your way is always the just or moral way? Your preceeding sentance looks to be a classic case of projection When the British discovered what happened in Graib some real shit rained down! And i find people here that don't even care that their country has tortured! Do these "people" honestly think that it matters WHO you torture? Do they fail to realize that at the moment when you decide to mimic your enemy and engage in their techniques IMO, it's wild exaggeration to say we engage in their techniques you become them to the eyes of your peers? It could be an AQ member or it could be a 10 year old fragile girl it really makes no difference. I couldn't disagree more. Nor do I see any basis whatsoever to compare AQ members to 10 year old girls.


But hey, you guys elected an ex CIA head to the white house....and we are discussing whether torture condoned by his son is moral or not......To our eyes (the rest of the world) you appear dangerous, aggressive, and to tell you the truth somewhat homicidal. Fair enough, we basically are. Terrorist attacks on civilians have a way of provoking that response from us.

And that's the bigger picture whether you like it or not. Sorry if i woke anyone up from their dream.

See bolded remarks above.

I see you're so courageous you don't have a profile. Don't wanna let us know what country your from, eh?

Yeah, I've lived in England, Germany & France. Go to Italy about every year to visit my wife's family. I suppose as a whole we Americans care about your opinions of us the same as you guys care about ours of you.

Fern

That's a nice mature way to handle criticism.

 

[Fern]

^ I was going for honest & accurate.

Maturity wouldn't be recognized around here anyway.

And stop hating yourself

Fern

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: Fern
^ I was going for honest & accurate.

Maturity wouldn't be recognized around here anyway.

And stop hating yourself

Fern

Well you just proved his points. Good job.

 

[Noobtastic]

War criminal? Give me a break. Stop wasting time in bulls**t and focus on what really matters. The world is going to enter a no-war policy as a result of Iraq, just like in WWI and WWII, some crazy country will take advantage (Iran, Russia, Pakistan, the usual..) and then it will be just another population recycling.

History is repeating...pardon the cliche XD

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic
War criminal? Give me a break.

Are you questioning whether a case can be made that George W. Bush and his criminal cabal could or should be charged as war criminals?

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Noobtastic
War criminal? Give me a break.

Are you questioning whether a case can be made that George W. Bush and his criminal cabal could or should be charged as war criminals?

they dont care at all...to them if it makes the US look bad they will deny it forever no matter what because they think that lying for your side (no matter what) is necessary..you cannot breach this type of mind

 

[Noobtastic]

Are you questioning whether a case can be made that George W. Bush and his criminal cabal could or should be charged as war criminals?

Yes. Partisan politics aside, the Iraq war was sponsored overwhelmingly by the executive and legislative branch. Given the alleged-evidence at the time, the war could be argued as justified.

Now, back to 2008. The whole uranium-Africa-Iraqi-WMDs clearly was a joke, so it has become obvious that the war is now being fought under the pretense of Iraq civil war, or crowd control.

There is no concrete evidence that Bush devised this alleged-scam from the get-go - that he knew all along Iraq had no WMDs and possessed no threat to western assets.

Bush is not legally responsible for the damage following the war. Morals and ethics cannot be dealt in the the court of law. Winston Churchill orders on Dresden resulted in 27,000 civilian casualties. Should he be tried on war crimes? David Loyd George stood idle has British warplanes disregarded the concept of precision bombing (for the time) and opted for total destruction.

Get it? Bush is not Hitler, Bush not Stalin, Bush is not Pol-Pot, and Bush is not Mao.

Charging him with war crimes and plastering his face all over the peace-horny media will only lead to delusion. Real threats will be ignored while the world masturbates to American condemnation.

I honestly couldn't care less either way, but my concern is aimed at the PEOPLE'S attention. Swaying them from reality in favor of political mumbo jumbo is not going to help.

Whatever.

 

[JD50]

copy and paste spam in 3...2...1...

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: MoonbeamM: For you to mock, of course, but for me to notice you haven't the style to get to first base.

Yet you continue replying. In fact, you initially went on your foul-mouthed, ad-hom rant because you reacted to a post of mine. So obviously you have noticed and that style drives you to the brink of unhinged lunacy.

M: I'll let others judge how bright that retort was.

Naturally. I wouldn't expect you to judge anything that requires you to be bright.

M: Yup, I become a gem and you get chucked in the garbage.

All while being stuck on your little shell, blissfully unaware that you're the sum of excretions. btw, most pearls never become gems.

M: He steps off his trike and becomes a Scatologist. Weeeee!

M: Boy, your really hung up over body functions. Mommy must have spanked you butt for pooping in your pants and masturbating. Therapy might help.

Bolded to highlight the idiotic irony of your italicized statement.

Therapy indeed.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Yes. Partisan politics aside, the Iraq war was sponsored overwhelmingly by the executive and legislative branch. Given the alleged-evidence at the time, the war could be argued as justified.

BULLSHIT!!!! -- but the Bushwhackos manifest, multiple LIES to Congress is one basis for charging them with MURDER. The charge of war crimes arises from other actions.

US CODE: Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 118

§ 2441 War crimes

(a) Offense.? Whoever, whether inside or outside the United States, commits a war crime, in any of the circumstances described in subsection (b), shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for life or any term of years, or both, and if death results to the victim, shall also be subject to the penalty of death.

(b) Circumstances.? The circumstances referred to in subsection (a) are that the person committing such war crime or the victim of such war crime is a member of the Armed Forces of the United States or a national of the United States (as defined in section 101 of the Immigration and Nationality Act).

(c) Definition.? As used in this section the term ?war crime? means any conduct?

(1) defined as a grave breach in any of the international conventions signed at Geneva 12 August 1949, or any protocol to such convention to which the United States is a party;

(2) prohibited by Article 23, 25, 27, or 28 of the Annex to the Hague Convention IV, Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land, signed 18 October 1907;

(3) which constitutes a violation of common Article 3 of the international conventions signed at Geneva, 12 August 1949, or any protocol to such convention to which the United States is a party and which deals with non-international armed conflict; or

(4) of a person who, in relation to an armed conflict and contrary to the provisions of the Protocol on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Mines, Booby-Traps and Other Devices as amended at Geneva on 3 May 1996 (Protocol II as amended on 3 May 1996), when the United States is a party to such Protocol, willfully kills or causes serious injury to civilians.

It's not even in dispute that the Bushwhackos have actively allowed and directed torture to be used against prisoners at Guantanimo, Abu Ghraib, and in various secret prisons around the world. Furthermore, they've been so callous about their war crimes that they called the Geneva Conventions' limitations on torture "quaint."

George W. Bush, Dickwad Cheney, Berto the Clown Gonzoles, Ronald Dumbsfeld and others are clearly "national of the United States" as defined under paragraph (b), above, and the acts they have sanctioned are clearly violations of the Geneva Conventions.

How can you NOT find them guilty of war crimes? :shocked:

Now, back to 2008. The whole uranium-Africa-Iraqi-WMDs clearly was a joke, so it has become obvious that the war is now being fought under the pretense of Iraq civil war, or crowd control.

Anyone who thinks that was joke is a fucking pervert. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

There is no concrete evidence that Bush devised this alleged-scam from the get-go - that he knew all along Iraq had no WMDs and possessed no threat to western assets.

MORE BULLSHIT!!!! -- What the Bushwhackos knew BEFORE they launched their war of LIES:

• There was no yellow cake uranium in Niger.

Before Bush started his war of lies, Ambassador Joseph Wilson was sent to Niger to investigate reports that Saddam was trying to buy yellow cake uranium. He returned and informed them that the reports were false, and that several European intelligence agencies had thoroughly discredited the source for the reports.

The Bushwhackos administration didn't want to hear that so they did what any good adminstration would do. They outed his wife, Valerie Plame's identity as a covert CIA operative, blowing off her value to our national security and endangering her life and the lives of everyone who ever worked with her anywhere in the world.

• There were no aluminum tubes capable of being used in centrifuges to process nuclear material.

Evidence on Iraq Challenged
Experts Question if Tubes Were Meant for Weapons Program

By Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, September 19, 2002

A key piece of evidence in the Bush administration's case against Iraq is being challenged in a report by independent experts who question whether thousands of high-strength aluminum tubes recently sought by Iraq were intended for a secret nuclear weapons program.

The White House last week said attempts by Iraq to acquire the tubes point to a clandestine program to make enriched uranium for nuclear bombs. But the experts say in a new report that the evidence is ambiguous, and in some ways contradicts what is known about Iraq's past nuclear efforts.

The report, from the Institute for Science and International Security, also contends that the Bush administration is trying to quiet dissent among its own analysts over how to interpret the evidence. The report, a draft of which was obtained by The Washington Post, was authored by David Albright, a physicist who investigated Iraq's nuclear weapons program following the 1991 Persian Gulf War as a member of the International Atomic Energy Agency's inspection team. The institute, headquartered in Washington, is an independent group that studies nuclear and other security issues.

"By themselves, these attempted procurements are not evidence that Iraq is in possession of, or close to possessing, nuclear weapons," the report said. "They do not provide evidence that Iraq has an operating centrifuge plant or when such a plant could be operational."

The controversy stems from shipments to Iraq of specialized aluminum metal that were seized en route by governments allied with the United States. A U.S. intelligence official confirmed that at least two such shipments were seized within the past 14 months, although he declined to give details. The Associated Press, citing sources familiar with the shipments, reported that one originated in China and was intercepted in Jordan.

The shipments sparked concern among U.S. intelligence analysts because of the potential use of such tubes in centrifuges, fast-spinning machines used in making enriched uranium for nuclear bombs. High-strength, heat-resistant metals are needed for centrifuge casings as well as for the rotors, which turn at up to 1,000 rotations per minute.

There is no evidence that any of the tubes reached Iraq. But in its white paper on Iraq released to the United Nations last week, the Bush administration cited the seized shipments as evidence that Iraq is actively seeking to develop nuclear weapons. Bush's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, said in a televised interview that the tubes "are only really suited for nuclear weapons programs, centrifuge programs."

Since then, U.S. officials have acknowledged differing opinions within the U.S. intelligence community about possible uses for the tubes -- with some experts contending that a more plausible explanation was that the aluminum was meant to build launch tubes for Iraq's artillery rockets.

"But the majority view, held by senior officials here, is that they were most likely intended for gas centrifuges," one U.S. intelligence official said in an interview.

The new report questions that conclusion on several grounds, most of them technical. It says the seized tubes were made of a kind of aluminum that is ill-suited for welding. Other specifications of the imported metal are at odds with what is known about Iraq's previous attempts to build centrifuges. In fact, the report said, Iraq had largely abandoned aluminum for other materials, such as specialized steel and carbon fiber, in its centrifuges at the time its nuclear program was destroyed by allied bombers in the Gulf War.

According to Albright, government experts on nuclear technology who dissented from the Bush administration's view told him they were expected to remain silent. Several Energy Department officials familiar with the aluminum shipments declined to comment.

Note the date -- September 19, 2002, BEFORE they launched their war of LIES.

• There were no facilities for making nerve gas or biological weapons
  
• There were no long range rockets.
  
• There were no WMD's.
  
• There was no Al Qaeda in Iraq.

Even Colin Powell has since said he strongly questioned the "evidence" the Bushwhackos were pimping to Congress and the American people before he gave his infamous dog and pony show at the U.N.

Powell: Some Iraq testimony not 'solid'

Saturday, April 3, 2004 Posted: 11:05 AM EST (1605 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell said his pre-war testimony to the U.N. Security Council about Iraq's alleged mobile, biological weapons labs was based on information that appears not to be "solid."

Powell's speech before the Security Council on February, 5, 2003 --detailing possible weapons of mass destruction in Iraq -- was a major event in the Bush administration's effort to justify a war and win international support.

Powell said Friday his testimony about Iraq and mobile biological weapons labs was based on the best intelligence available, but "now it appears not to be the case that it was that solid," Powell said.
.
.
. (continues

You can pick and choose from the examples in the article, but remember George Tenet's "slam dunk?" Remember the infamously unreliable testimony from "Curveball? :roll:

Powell also told columnist, Robert Scheer that he and his department?s top experts never believed that Iraq posed an imminent nuclear threat, but that the president followed the misleading advice of Vice President Dick Cheney and the CIA in making the claim.

Robert Scheer: Now Powell Tells Us
.
.
On Monday, former Secretary of State Colin Powell told me that he and his department?s top experts never believed that Iraq posed an imminent nuclear threat, but that the president followed the misleading advice of Vice President Dick Cheney and the CIA in making the claim. Now he tells us.
.
.
I queried Powell at a reception following a talk he gave in Los Angeles on Monday. Pointing out that the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate showed that his State Department had gotten it right on the nonexistent Iraq nuclear threat, I asked why did the president ignore that wisdom in his stated case for the invasion?

?The CIA was pushing the aluminum tube argument heavily and Cheney went with that instead of what our guys wrote,? Powell said. And the Niger reference in Bush?s State of the Union speech? ?That was a big mistake,? he said. ?It should never have been in the speech. I didn?t need Wilson to tell me that there wasn?t a Niger connection. He didn?t tell us anything we didn?t already know. I never believed it.?

When I pressed further as to why the president played up the Iraq nuclear threat, Powell said it wasn?t the president: ?That was all Cheney.?
.
.
. (continues)

[/quote]

Get it? Bush is not Hitler, Bush not Stalin, Bush is not Pol-Pot, and Bush is not Mao.

You're right about two out of three, but Bush and his facist wannbe dictators are far closer than your worst nightmare to Hitler and his crew with Karl Rove cast in the part of Hitler's propoganda minister, Josef Goebbels, often credited with "the big lie." George W. Bush is about as close to Hitler as can be.

Charging him with war crimes and plastering his face all over the peace-horny media will only lead to delusion. Real threats will be ignored while the world masturbates to American condemnation.

YET MORE BULLSHIT!!!! -- Charging your TRAITOR IN CHIEF and his criminal cabal of LIARS, MURDERERS and TRAITORS in every applicable court for all of their crimes is essential for history and for the integrity and future of our democratic institutions. The lesson to be learned is far too important. For no reason should it be swept under the rug of history.

If you believe otherwise, or you really don't care, YOU are the jackoff.

 

[Noobtastic]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Yes. Partisan politics aside, the Iraq war was sponsored overwhelmingly by the executive and legislative branch. Given the alleged-evidence at the time, the war could be argued as justified.

BULLSHIT!!!! -- but the Bushwhackos manifest, multiple LIES to Congress is one basis for charging them with MURDER. The charge of war crimes arises from other actions.

US CODE: Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 118

§ 2441 War crimes

(a) Offense.? Whoever, whether inside or outside the United States, commits a war crime, in any of the circumstances described in subsection (b), shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for life or any term of years, or both, and if death results to the victim, shall also be subject to the penalty of death.

(b) Circumstances.? The circumstances referred to in subsection (a) are that the person committing such war crime or the victim of such war crime is a member of the Armed Forces of the United States or a national of the United States (as defined in section 101 of the Immigration and Nationality Act).

(c) Definition.? As used in this section the term ?war crime? means any conduct?

(1) defined as a grave breach in any of the international conventions signed at Geneva 12 August 1949, or any protocol to such convention to which the United States is a party;

(2) prohibited by Article 23, 25, 27, or 28 of the Annex to the Hague Convention IV, Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land, signed 18 October 1907;

(3) which constitutes a violation of common Article 3 of the international conventions signed at Geneva, 12 August 1949, or any protocol to such convention to which the United States is a party and which deals with non-international armed conflict; or

(4) of a person who, in relation to an armed conflict and contrary to the provisions of the Protocol on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Mines, Booby-Traps and Other Devices as amended at Geneva on 3 May 1996 (Protocol II as amended on 3 May 1996), when the United States is a party to such Protocol, willfully kills or causes serious injury to civilians.

It's not even in dispute that the Bushwhackos have actively allowed and directed torture to be used against prisoners at Guantanimo, Abu Ghraib, and in various secret prisons around the world. Furthermore, they've been so callous about their war crimes that they called the Geneva Conventions' limitations on torture "quaint."

George W. Bush, Dickwad Cheney, Berto the Clown Gonzoles, Ronald Dumbsfeld and others are clearly "national of the United States" as defined under paragraph (b), above, and the acts they have sanctioned are clearly violations of the Geneva Conventions.

How can you NOT find them guilty of war crimes? :shocked:

Now, back to 2008. The whole uranium-Africa-Iraqi-WMDs clearly was a joke, so it has become obvious that the war is now being fought under the pretense of Iraq civil war, or crowd control.

Anyone who thinks that was joke is a fucking pervert. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

There is no concrete evidence that Bush devised this alleged-scam from the get-go - that he knew all along Iraq had no WMDs and possessed no threat to western assets.

MORE BULLSHIT!!!! -- What the Bushwhackos knew BEFORE they launched their war of LIES:

• There was no yellow cake uranium in Niger.

Before Bush started his war of lies, Ambassador Joseph Wilson was sent to Niger to investigate reports that Saddam was trying to buy yellow cake uranium. He returned and informed them that the reports were false, and that several European intelligence agencies had thoroughly discredited the source for the reports.

The Bushwhackos administration didn't want to hear that so they did what any good adminstration would do. They outed his wife, Valerie Plame's identity as a covert CIA operative, blowing off her value to our national security and endangering her life and the lives of everyone who ever worked with her anywhere in the world.

• There were no aluminum tubes capable of being used in centrifuges to process nuclear material.

Evidence on Iraq Challenged
Experts Question if Tubes Were Meant for Weapons Program

By Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, September 19, 2002

A key piece of evidence in the Bush administration's case against Iraq is being challenged in a report by independent experts who question whether thousands of high-strength aluminum tubes recently sought by Iraq were intended for a secret nuclear weapons program.

The White House last week said attempts by Iraq to acquire the tubes point to a clandestine program to make enriched uranium for nuclear bombs. But the experts say in a new report that the evidence is ambiguous, and in some ways contradicts what is known about Iraq's past nuclear efforts.

The report, from the Institute for Science and International Security, also contends that the Bush administration is trying to quiet dissent among its own analysts over how to interpret the evidence. The report, a draft of which was obtained by The Washington Post, was authored by David Albright, a physicist who investigated Iraq's nuclear weapons program following the 1991 Persian Gulf War as a member of the International Atomic Energy Agency's inspection team. The institute, headquartered in Washington, is an independent group that studies nuclear and other security issues.

"By themselves, these attempted procurements are not evidence that Iraq is in possession of, or close to possessing, nuclear weapons," the report said. "They do not provide evidence that Iraq has an operating centrifuge plant or when such a plant could be operational."

The controversy stems from shipments to Iraq of specialized aluminum metal that were seized en route by governments allied with the United States. A U.S. intelligence official confirmed that at least two such shipments were seized within the past 14 months, although he declined to give details. The Associated Press, citing sources familiar with the shipments, reported that one originated in China and was intercepted in Jordan.

The shipments sparked concern among U.S. intelligence analysts because of the potential use of such tubes in centrifuges, fast-spinning machines used in making enriched uranium for nuclear bombs. High-strength, heat-resistant metals are needed for centrifuge casings as well as for the rotors, which turn at up to 1,000 rotations per minute.

There is no evidence that any of the tubes reached Iraq. But in its white paper on Iraq released to the United Nations last week, the Bush administration cited the seized shipments as evidence that Iraq is actively seeking to develop nuclear weapons. Bush's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, said in a televised interview that the tubes "are only really suited for nuclear weapons programs, centrifuge programs."

Since then, U.S. officials have acknowledged differing opinions within the U.S. intelligence community about possible uses for the tubes -- with some experts contending that a more plausible explanation was that the aluminum was meant to build launch tubes for Iraq's artillery rockets.

"But the majority view, held by senior officials here, is that they were most likely intended for gas centrifuges," one U.S. intelligence official said in an interview.

The new report questions that conclusion on several grounds, most of them technical. It says the seized tubes were made of a kind of aluminum that is ill-suited for welding. Other specifications of the imported metal are at odds with what is known about Iraq's previous attempts to build centrifuges. In fact, the report said, Iraq had largely abandoned aluminum for other materials, such as specialized steel and carbon fiber, in its centrifuges at the time its nuclear program was destroyed by allied bombers in the Gulf War.

According to Albright, government experts on nuclear technology who dissented from the Bush administration's view told him they were expected to remain silent. Several Energy Department officials familiar with the aluminum shipments declined to comment.

Note the date -- September 19, 2002, BEFORE they launched their war of LIES.

• There were no facilities for making nerve gas or biological weapons
  
• There were no long range rockets.
  
• There were no WMD's.
  
• There was no Al Qaeda in Iraq.

Even Colin Powell has since said he strongly questioned the "evidence" the Bushwhackos were pimping to Congress and the American people before he gave his infamous dog and pony show at the U.N.

Powell: Some Iraq testimony not 'solid'

Saturday, April 3, 2004 Posted: 11:05 AM EST (1605 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell said his pre-war testimony to the U.N. Security Council about Iraq's alleged mobile, biological weapons labs was based on information that appears not to be "solid."

Powell's speech before the Security Council on February, 5, 2003 --detailing possible weapons of mass destruction in Iraq -- was a major event in the Bush administration's effort to justify a war and win international support.

Powell said Friday his testimony about Iraq and mobile biological weapons labs was based on the best intelligence available, but "now it appears not to be the case that it was that solid," Powell said.
.
.
. (continues

You can pick and choose from the examples in the article, but remember George Tenet's "slam dunk?" Remember the infamously unreliable testimony from "Curveball? :roll:

Powell also told columnist, Robert Scheer that he and his department?s top experts never believed that Iraq posed an imminent nuclear threat, but that the president followed the misleading advice of Vice President Dick Cheney and the CIA in making the claim.

Robert Scheer: Now Powell Tells Us
.
.
On Monday, former Secretary of State Colin Powell told me that he and his department?s top experts never believed that Iraq posed an imminent nuclear threat, but that the president followed the misleading advice of Vice President Dick Cheney and the CIA in making the claim. Now he tells us.
.
.
I queried Powell at a reception following a talk he gave in Los Angeles on Monday. Pointing out that the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate showed that his State Department had gotten it right on the nonexistent Iraq nuclear threat, I asked why did the president ignore that wisdom in his stated case for the invasion?

?The CIA was pushing the aluminum tube argument heavily and Cheney went with that instead of what our guys wrote,? Powell said. And the Niger reference in Bush?s State of the Union speech? ?That was a big mistake,? he said. ?It should never have been in the speech. I didn?t need Wilson to tell me that there wasn?t a Niger connection. He didn?t tell us anything we didn?t already know. I never believed it.?

When I pressed further as to why the president played up the Iraq nuclear threat, Powell said it wasn?t the president: ?That was all Cheney.?
.
.
. (continues)

Get it? Bush is not Hitler, Bush not Stalin, Bush is not Pol-Pot, and Bush is not Mao.

You're right about two out of three, but Bush and his facist wannbe dictators are far closer than your worst nightmare to Hitler and his crew with Karl Rove cast in the part of Hitler's propoganda minister, Josef Goebbels, often credited with "the big lie." George W. Bush is about as close to Hitler as can be.

Charging him with war crimes and plastering his face all over the peace-horny media will only lead to delusion. Real threats will be ignored while the world masturbates to American condemnation.

YET MORE BULLSHIT!!!! -- Charging your TRAITOR IN CHIEF and his criminal cabal of LIARS, MURDERERS and TRAITORS in every applicable court for all of their crimes is essential for history and for the integrity and future of our democratic institutions. The lesson to be learned is far too important. For no reason should it be swept under the rug of history.

If you believe otherwise, or you really don't care, YOU are the jackoff.[/quote][/quote]


Lawlz.

 

[CallMeJoe]

The citizens of Brattleboro, Vermont seem to agree with the OP, and want Bush & Cheney arrested for "Crimes against the Constitution" if they dare set foot in the Green Mountain State.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: JD50
copy and paste spam in 3...2...1...

:laugh:

 

[alejandroAT]

Originally posted by: Deudalus

Originally posted by: alejandroAT
Your currency is going down,

True, but not always a bad thing.

For example, I'm a big audiophile guru. There are literally ASS TONS of Canadians that are now buying American stereo equipment and speakers rather than Canadian because their dollar goes farther here than it used to.

Er go, weaker dollar means more people investing in us rather than vice versa.

your economy is going down,

Stats on this? Or are you just throwing more stuff out there that you random Euros say to one another? Our housing market is fubar but beyond that I think were doing just fine. How's yours?

your crime rates are among the highest in the world

Really? Got stats on that? Maybe we should put closed circuit TVs up everywhere like you Brits did and let Big Brother solve these problems?

China is soon to take over as the world's number 1 ...I see your arrogance will serve you as a souvenir in the days to come. Old and tired in the porch telling stories to your grandchildren of glories past while you enjoy your 0 health care.

I don't want free health care because I've seen your system, Canada's system, the French system, and others and I see your wealthy coming to our country for care because your health care system sucks.

Free isn't always better. Coffee is free at work everyday and Starbucks is evensive as drugs yet somehow they are doing well........

A couple of links to support my claim on crime:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/153988.stm
http://www.nationmaster.com/gr...ime-murders-per-capita

In case you are confused, I do have my profile filled and i thought people could see it. In any case I am neither Canadian nor British but Greek.

And about the cameras of course you wouldn't need them. Last I checked the police over there doesn't need to watch over people to gather information. They just hood them up, send them to guandanamo and torture them till they get what they want, no chages no nothing. Just like in Iraq or China.#

About the healthcare you don't want, well you are one of the lucky few that can actually afford it and don't die out on the streets. Good that you feel satisfied with that as a working system of a civilised country.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: alejandroAT

Originally posted by: Deudalus

Originally posted by: alejandroAT
Your currency is going down,

True, but not always a bad thing.

For example, I'm a big audiophile guru. There are literally ASS TONS of Canadians that are now buying American stereo equipment and speakers rather than Canadian because their dollar goes farther here than it used to.

Er go, weaker dollar means more people investing in us rather than vice versa.

your economy is going down,

Stats on this? Or are you just throwing more stuff out there that you random Euros say to one another? Our housing market is fubar but beyond that I think were doing just fine. How's yours?

your crime rates are among the highest in the world

Really? Got stats on that? Maybe we should put closed circuit TVs up everywhere like you Brits did and let Big Brother solve these problems?

China is soon to take over as the world's number 1 ...I see your arrogance will serve you as a souvenir in the days to come. Old and tired in the porch telling stories to your grandchildren of glories past while you enjoy your 0 health care.

I don't want free health care because I've seen your system, Canada's system, the French system, and others and I see your wealthy coming to our country for care because your health care system sucks.

Free isn't always better. Coffee is free at work everyday and Starbucks is evensive as drugs yet somehow they are doing well........

A couple of links to support my claim on crime:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/153988.stm
http://www.nationmaster.com/gr...ime-murders-per-capita

In case you are confused, I do have my profile filled and i thought people could see it. In any case I am neither Canadian nor British but Greek.

And about the cameras of course you wouldn't need them. Last I checked the police over there doesn't need to watch over people to gather information. They just hood them up, send them to guandanamo and torture them till they get what they want, no chages no nothing. Just like in Iraq or China.#

About the healthcare you don't want, well you are one of the lucky few that can actually afford it and don't die out on the streets. Good that you feel satisfied with that as a working system of a civilised country.

I hope that you were just being sarcastic with regards to the bold....

 

[alejandroAT]

Originally posted by: Deudalus

Originally posted by: alejandroAT
Is that "stupid ass Bush" or "stupid as Bush?" Also what a few Euros say to one another truly doesn't reflect the reality of any situation.

Stupid like Bush. Honestly now, can you look into his eyes while he speaks and tell me that there is actually something going on in that head? It is obvious he is badly regurgitating someone else's thoughts.

And for the record...

1 - those "few" Euros? your population is 300mil and ours is 730mil...

2 - I am no lefty so spare me the attack-from-the-right ritual

Ok so lets see here....

Europe bands together and now has an economy that can rival ours. That's great.

But in the mean time while you are so busy trying to keep up with the Jonses China is getting stronger. You are trying to compete with the most peaceful hegemon in the history of the world while China gets stronger and stronger.

They aren't replacing the United States anytime in the near future, but do you REALLY want them to?

How stupid are you guys really?


Also for the record you can search through my posts and see I don't really like Bush very much. I just don't like pompous Brits (or Euros for that matter) who get 100% of their news from the state owned and run BBC, being filmed on C.C. cameras everywhere they go, walking in lock step with the United States on our policies, yet is constantly waggling their finger in our direction.

Excuse me if I am wrong but i bet you are not a native American. You are either Asian, African or from some European country. And not so long ago you "banded" together to form what you call America. When you did this was yesterday for my civilization that has existed for 5 thousand years. You are too young to be so self sure.

I regret that I am not familiar with the expression "keeping up with the Jonses" so I cannot comment. I will ask nevertheless who you mean by most peaceful hegemon in the world (and i don't mean what hegemon means i am greek after all )

As for the Brits walking along your every step. 100% true and that is why we don't like them very much and that's why Tony Blair walked away unpopular as Bush's pet dog. But you have to remember your notorious "You are either with us or against us". Britain was held hostage by the USA in various forms and obligated to be a cooperative puppet. The French on the other hand refused which led to things like you renaming your French fries to freedom fries and calling them traitors and what not. The very people that without whose help you would had never made it against the brits during your independence war.

As for China Vs America....well let's see....China has excellent relations with Greece both culturally and commercially. America on the other hand does not as it had sustained a military junda for 7 years that tortured and executed many many of my compatriots. But i guess they don't teach you these things during American history at school do they?

 

[alejandroAT]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: alejandroAT

Originally posted by: Deudalus

Originally posted by: alejandroAT
Your currency is going down,

True, but not always a bad thing.

For example, I'm a big audiophile guru. There are literally ASS TONS of Canadians that are now buying American stereo equipment and speakers rather than Canadian because their dollar goes farther here than it used to.

Er go, weaker dollar means more people investing in us rather than vice versa.

your economy is going down,

Stats on this? Or are you just throwing more stuff out there that you random Euros say to one another? Our housing market is fubar but beyond that I think were doing just fine. How's yours?

your crime rates are among the highest in the world

Really? Got stats on that? Maybe we should put closed circuit TVs up everywhere like you Brits did and let Big Brother solve these problems?

China is soon to take over as the world's number 1 ...I see your arrogance will serve you as a souvenir in the days to come. Old and tired in the porch telling stories to your grandchildren of glories past while you enjoy your 0 health care.

I don't want free health care because I've seen your system, Canada's system, the French system, and others and I see your wealthy coming to our country for care because your health care system sucks.

Free isn't always better. Coffee is free at work everyday and Starbucks is evensive as drugs yet somehow they are doing well........

A couple of links to support my claim on crime:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/153988.stm
http://www.nationmaster.com/gr...ime-murders-per-capita

In case you are confused, I do have my profile filled and i thought people could see it. In any case I am neither Canadian nor British but Greek.

And about the cameras of course you wouldn't need them. Last I checked the police over there doesn't need to watch over people to gather information. They just hood them up, send them to guandanamo and torture them till they get what they want, no chages no nothing. Just like in Iraq or China.#

About the healthcare you don't want, well you are one of the lucky few that can actually afford it and don't die out on the streets. Good that you feel satisfied with that as a working system of a civilised country.

I hope that you were just being sarcastic with regards to the bold....

http://tv.muxlim.com/video/KMBvwGuFbG4

http://www.democrats.org/page/...st/elizabethberry/CZ9c (although it's a democratic page and i might be accused of using lefty sources)

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Do i think there are enough charges to bring forth an investigation, definently, do i feel that such an investigation would be pointless, definently.

I want Don Vito Corleone (the poster) to weigh in on this more since it's not my field at all but he's ex military (and in the know) and so i could trust him.

His stance is pretty much mine.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: alejandroAT

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: alejandroAT

Originally posted by: Deudalus

Originally posted by: alejandroAT
Your currency is going down,

True, but not always a bad thing.

For example, I'm a big audiophile guru. There are literally ASS TONS of Canadians that are now buying American stereo equipment and speakers rather than Canadian because their dollar goes farther here than it used to.

Er go, weaker dollar means more people investing in us rather than vice versa.

your economy is going down,

Stats on this? Or are you just throwing more stuff out there that you random Euros say to one another? Our housing market is fubar but beyond that I think were doing just fine. How's yours?

your crime rates are among the highest in the world

Really? Got stats on that? Maybe we should put closed circuit TVs up everywhere like you Brits did and let Big Brother solve these problems?

China is soon to take over as the world's number 1 ...I see your arrogance will serve you as a souvenir in the days to come. Old and tired in the porch telling stories to your grandchildren of glories past while you enjoy your 0 health care.

I don't want free health care because I've seen your system, Canada's system, the French system, and others and I see your wealthy coming to our country for care because your health care system sucks.

Free isn't always better. Coffee is free at work everyday and Starbucks is evensive as drugs yet somehow they are doing well........

A couple of links to support my claim on crime:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/153988.stm
http://www.nationmaster.com/gr...ime-murders-per-capita

In case you are confused, I do have my profile filled and i thought people could see it. In any case I am neither Canadian nor British but Greek.

And about the cameras of course you wouldn't need them. Last I checked the police over there doesn't need to watch over people to gather information. They just hood them up, send them to guandanamo and torture them till they get what they want, no chages no nothing. Just like in Iraq or China.#

About the healthcare you don't want, well you are one of the lucky few that can actually afford it and don't die out on the streets. Good that you feel satisfied with that as a working system of a civilised country.

I hope that you were just being sarcastic with regards to the bold....

http://tv.muxlim.com/video/KMBvwGuFbG4

http://www.democrats.org/page/...st/elizabethberry/CZ9c (although it's a democratic page and i might be accused of using lefty sources)

1. Our Police are NOT rounding up US citizens, sending them to Gitmo, then torturing them.
2. The majority of Americans are not dying in the streets.

Either you are getting spoon fed a lot of propaganda over there in Greece or you are completely full of shit. I'll go with the former since you came into this thread talking about how we are not looking at the bigger picture and how the US media is hiding reality from us.

 

[Noobtastic]

Jesus guys do really take the situation that seriously? Iraq is a joke, in both scale and investment. 10 years time and everyone will forget the petty conflict while being consumed with the reality of WWIII.

Political wankers are patting themselves over the deluded populous, savoring at the thought of a nearly universal bowing to all authority who oppose what they consider "crimes against humanity." God, what is that smell? Is that history? Yes, yes I think it is.

Oh how I wait so patiently for the, "I TOLD YOU SO!"...moment. How satisfying that will be. XD

 

[alejandroAT]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: alejandroAT

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: alejandroAT

Originally posted by: Deudalus

Originally posted by: alejandroAT
Your currency is going down,

True, but not always a bad thing.

For example, I'm a big audiophile guru. There are literally ASS TONS of Canadians that are now buying American stereo equipment and speakers rather than Canadian because their dollar goes farther here than it used to.

Er go, weaker dollar means more people investing in us rather than vice versa.

your economy is going down,

Stats on this? Or are you just throwing more stuff out there that you random Euros say to one another? Our housing market is fubar but beyond that I think were doing just fine. How's yours?

your crime rates are among the highest in the world

Really? Got stats on that? Maybe we should put closed circuit TVs up everywhere like you Brits did and let Big Brother solve these problems?

China is soon to take over as the world's number 1 ...I see your arrogance will serve you as a souvenir in the days to come. Old and tired in the porch telling stories to your grandchildren of glories past while you enjoy your 0 health care.

I don't want free health care because I've seen your system, Canada's system, the French system, and others and I see your wealthy coming to our country for care because your health care system sucks.

Free isn't always better. Coffee is free at work everyday and Starbucks is evensive as drugs yet somehow they are doing well........

A couple of links to support my claim on crime:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/153988.stm
http://www.nationmaster.com/gr...ime-murders-per-capita

In case you are confused, I do have my profile filled and i thought people could see it. In any case I am neither Canadian nor British but Greek.

And about the cameras of course you wouldn't need them. Last I checked the police over there doesn't need to watch over people to gather information. They just hood them up, send them to guandanamo and torture them till they get what they want, no chages no nothing. Just like in Iraq or China.#

About the healthcare you don't want, well you are one of the lucky few that can actually afford it and don't die out on the streets. Good that you feel satisfied with that as a working system of a civilised country.

I hope that you were just being sarcastic with regards to the bold....

http://tv.muxlim.com/video/KMBvwGuFbG4

http://www.democrats.org/page/...st/elizabethberry/CZ9c (although it's a democratic page and i might be accused of using lefty sources)

1. Our Police are NOT rounding up US citizens, sending them to Gitmo, then torturing them.
2. The majority of Americans are not dying in the streets.

Either you are getting spoon fed a lot of propaganda over there in Greece or you are completely full of shit. I'll go with the former since you came into this thread talking about how we are not looking at the bigger picture and how the US media is hiding reality from us.

Propaganda hey? I get BBC, CNN, Al-Jazeera, State Greek TV, Independent channels and newspapers from around the world to my local corner shop....I get points of views from all countries and all people and then i make up my choices. I travel around Europe and I meet people from Sweden, Germany, Marocco, Japan, China, India, Pakistan ,Russia blah blah blah and discuss with them.....what exposure do you have over world information that resembles any of the above so you can accuse my thoughts of being a propaganda product.

And I never claimed that the MAJORITY of Americans are dying in the streets. I only made that remark in response to some guy's claims of american superiority. Nevertheless, you can go tell the people in New Orleans about wealth and power I'm sure they'll back you up 100%.

AS for who you are sending to be tortured:

http://www.amnesty.org/en/report/info/AMR51/088/2005
http://www.amnesty.org.uk/acti...tails.asp?ActionID=221