alzan
Diamond Member
- May 21, 2003
- 3,860
- 2
- 0
Which of the atheists in this or any other related thread are trying to convert theists and/or proselytize. Please link provide evidence of said conversion tactics or proselytization.
Which of the atheists in this or any other related thread are trying to convert theists and/or proselytize. Please link provide evidence of said conversion tactics or proselytization.
JEDIYoda
Lifer
- Jul 13, 2005
- 33,986
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JEDIYoda
Lifer
- Jul 13, 2005
- 33,986
- 3,321
- 126
You do your own homework......several of you in various threads have said you feel you have to tell others that their God is false.....
Just your very arguments and criticism of the beliefs of Christians is a conversion tactic.......
Just your emphatically asking other who believe in God to have an open mind is a tactic that borders on proselytizing.........or are you really that dense??
No, it's not a conversion tactic, it's discussion. If you don't like it I suggest you stop participating. Or should I take your involvement as proselytizing as well? What about your constant vague jabs at atheism?
And you know what? The "you" you refer to doesn't exist. As much as you'd like to think there's a church of the non-believers it doesn't work that way, and one person hardly speaks for another just because both don't profess belief in any particular religions or gods.
witeken
Diamond Member
- Dec 25, 2013
- 3,899
- 193
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The original comment was
Kid 1: These cookies are yummy. How are they made?
Kid 2: Mom did it.
Kid 1: Oh
which JEDIYoda answered with a variant "who made the flower" (God). It's the wrong question, which is reflected by the "oh...." answer. The flowers don't have a beautiful color because of god.
PingviN
Golden Member
- Nov 3, 2009
- 1,848
- 13
- 81
Is there anything positive that religion brings to the table that can't/wont exist outside the religious sphere? Would people who are considered to be good Christians/Muslims/Jews no longer be good people?
If religion got replaced by rational atheistic mindsets, then I'm sure the world would be a much better place.
The "atheistic mindset" already showed that those possessing it are incapable of providing a "better" world -- they had their chance in the 20th century to show how "rational" they were. This is how they went about "replacing religion":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists
Note: This was a result of the "mindset" -- not atheism itself. Every atheist isn't rational, every atheist isn't tolerant...we don't need anymore of these people anymore than we need religious extremism.
As long as we have irrational people (which is at the heart of every societal problem), the world will never become a better place.
There is no one single cause of the world's problems...or we would have taken care of it by now.
I think religion has a net negative effect on humanity. Sure, some christians and other members of other religions help the poor and are charitable. Great. But doing those things doesn't take religion. I think a lot of good people are believers, but I think they are capable of being every bit as much of a good person, probably more so, without religion. Just click on any news site and see how long it takes to find a story about some violence happening over religion... probably pretty easy to do.
I am not trying to convert anyone, but participate in the discussion. Take a look at this thread title, remember what you clicked on. You're going to read all kinds of opinions and view points. Are you sure it is so much anyone here trying to convert you as much as it is your faith getting a black eye because it can't stand up to logic and you don't want to hear it?
I think there are a lot of smart believers in different religions. But that doesn't mean they can't fall victim to fear and propaganda.
I do believe the world would be better off without religion. But if he wants people to start using forced conversion or terror to fight religion, then he's on the same level as those he feels make the world worse off and has himself become part of the problem.
Well, this religion-less atheistic utopian fantasy needs to be replaced with practical, realistic steps to improve the world.
Removing religion will not make the world a better place because religion isn't the root of the world's issues -- religion is just a cough, not the cold.
I just want to add, that I think there is a difference between an extreme atheist group and an extreme christian or muslim group. When an extremist atheist group says or does something, they really are acting only on their own behalf, they have nothing to do with me or other atheist not associated with that group. When an extreme christian group does or says something, they're really just following the laws as by commanded by their god and his perfect word in the bible that mainstream christians simply want to ignore.
Ah, so you're OK with atheist extremism as long as they aren't following the dictates of a holy book.
Gotcha.
Does it really matter why an extremist is an extremist? Both will kill you just the same if they're godless or following a book.
There really is no difference.
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I agree with everything you said there. If the question is "Do I think the world is better off without religion?" the answer is yes. But when I say that, I mean it as in if most people eventually come to atheism by themselves, that'll make it better. When we stop fighting over these silly things because we come to realize we were fighting over an invisible friend that wasn't there, I think that would make the world better. That is a realization that has to come to people by itself. But trying to force people to abandon belief or going on some kind of anti-holy war to kill believers, that's just adding to the problem and makes things worse for everyone.
And I agree that religion is just a symptom of a bigger disease. Humans find lots of things to fight and kill over, religion just being one of them. But with so many generations of hatred and religion being so ingrained, I have to think that relieving that symptom may improve the ability to fight that disease tremendously.
No, I'm not ok with it at all. That just adds to the already big problem of violence related to religion.
I was trying to point out that if a group of atheists do something extreme, they really are acting by themselves. I and many other atheists don't believe in some central dogma that pushed that group to their extreme acts.
When a group of extreme christians do something extreme, they're just following the laws that are written by their god that is found in the holy book that all christians follow and are supposed to use as their moral guide.
An example of what I mean:
If an atheist group decides that they hate homosexuality, it really is just that fringe group. There is no central dogma telling me I need to also hate gays.
On the other hand a lot of people say the westboro baptist church is extreme because they protest at funerals with signs that read things like "God hates fags". Most christians seem to want to distance themselves from such groups. Yet we also know how many christians feel about homosexuality and gay marriage as their holy book says homosexuality is an abomination.
Agree.
Well, that really hurts your point that religion is worse. If an extremist doesn't need the dogma of religion, then that shows that all you need to be is human...as you've shown that extremism can flourish without religious dogma.
These kind of discussions are good, because I think it's becoming obvious that atheists are simply "picking" religion as the problem, and willfully ignoring this innate human tendency toward murder and violence.
..and when an atheist does it, he's basically tapping into the human disposition toward violence. No religion is needed to be violent.
That shows that a dogma isn't needed to hate. So removing religion will not stop people from hating.
You're actually defeating your own point.
Again, I mostly agree. I think the root cause of much of our violence is human nature itself. We don't need guns, religion, territorial claims, etc. to be a hateful species.
But, how does humanity rise above itself to become better? By following the same institutions we have for thousands of years that are built around handbooks full of hatred (you can't argue that bible doesn't glorify violence)? To follow those same groups that are already responsible for taking millions of lives because of their handbook of hatred? Do we keep following this handbook?
Or maybe we abandon these institutions since they're hateful, have a violent past based around their handbook, and can't even prove that their entire reason for existing is or was ever even there and real to begin with. Maybe it is time for people to stop considering the bible as the handbook of morality.
But, how does humanity rise above itself to become better? By following the same institutions we have for thousands of years that are built around handbooks full of hatred (you can't argue that bible doesn't glorify violence)? To follow those same groups that are already responsible for taking millions of lives because of their handbook of hatred? Do we keep following this handbook?
Or maybe we abandon these institutions since they're hateful, have a violent past based around their handbook, and can't even prove that their entire reason for existing is or was ever even there and real to begin with. Maybe it is time for people to stop considering the bible as the handbook of morality.
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Since you want to hold firm to this, out of all the religious people in the world, what percentage you think kill people and are violent?
Please provide some evidence of your answer.
Here is what I said, that I think without religion the world would be a better place. Not that doing so would create a harmonious utopia we would all live in. Just that it would be a step that improves things. If I said I think I'd save fuel by dropping 100 lbs from cars, I'm not saying doing that will suddenly make the planet rely on only green and renewable energy sources. I hope this helps you see the difference between what I said and what it seems you think I said.
I don't have any evidence, but I bet we can both agree that a very large majority of christians aren't violent and wouldn't want to cause violence over their faith. I imagine the percentage of atheists who want to cause violence over their disbelief is even smaller than the percentage of christians who would want to do the same over their beliefs. But that doesn't mean that the underlying dogma of christianity isn't full of hatred. Ask a gay person that would like to have married if violence is the only way hatred can be expressed.
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You are partially right. It is a human tendency for some to be violent. That is why it's bad to also add religion to the mix to make people even more intolerant by some so called divine words.
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