The Theism/Atheism Mega-thread Hullabaloo Extravaganza

[soulcougher73]

Who knows? There is really no point in speculating about whether or not something would or wouldn't have happened centuries ago.

Your questions suggests that the Crusades etc, wouldn't have happened had it not been for religion, yet, for that to be true, you'd have to know beforehand that Crusades would not had been possible without religion.

That's why your speculation is moot.

Do you have any idea what the Crusades were? You are really showing your ignorance in this thread if you do not.

 

[Retro Rob]

Do you really think many religious crusades to capture the holy land would have still happened had no one believed that the land was holy and hence had no real value?

I don't see how any of this matters today. Of course, religion has a bloody history full of intolerance, hatred, sectarianism, etc.

However, none of our contemporaries have anything to do with what happened during the Crusades.

 

[soulcougher73]

I see that you'd prefer to act like a 6 year-old than have an adult conversation.

And yes, Jesus would be proud that I'm calling you out on your child-like behavior.

Oh, and out before the "the same back to you" brainless retort you robotically chirp back.

You are delusional. In what way was his response that of a 6 year old? You got bitch slapped again and decided to derail the topic you quoted.

 

[Retro Rob]

I'm used to seeing you make these kinds of posts when your faith gets cornered. What part of his post was alzan acting like a six year old to you..? I don't see it, but maybe I'm missing something.

Is there any good deed done by christians that can't be done by non-secular groups?

Huh? Who said people need religion to do good?

I said doing good is a part of religion.

 

[Retro Rob]

You are delusional. In what way was his response that of a 6 year old? You got bitch slapped again and decided to derail the topic you quoted.

He was being facetious...this is something he does all the time.

I like bitch-slaps by the way...if you haven't realized by now. :awe:

 

[alzan]

He was being facetious...this is something he does all the time.

I like bitch-slaps by the way...if you haven't realized by now. :awe:

In what way am I treating a serious subject with deliberately inappropriate humor?

Both of my questions were honest and not humorous.

 

[Retro Rob]

I'm used to seeing you make these kinds of posts when your faith gets cornered.

My faith is never cornered...I've been posting in this thread more than any believer.

You all have tried to corner it, as I've been posting basically against everyone in this thread, and responding to your "contradictions link(s)", etc, so I know you're waiting for me to get cornered in order to claim "victory".

But sometimes, you have to call people out when they start acting like fools.

 

[Retro Rob]

In what way am I treating a serious subject with deliberately inappropriate humor?

Both of my questions were honest and not sarcastic.

Yeah, but I don't believe you.

It doesn't take a PhD to recognize that I wasn't saying that religion is required for people do to good; rather, I said doing good is a requirement of the religion you'd join.

Those two things aren't remotely the same, though, you insist on treating them as if they are.

 

[alzan]

Yeah, but I don't believe you.

A shame. I may not share your beliefs but I've lent you a certain amount of respect and credence as I do with all members with whom I've discussed issues on this board.

Whether you believe me or not is up to you.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

No one said they had to be told to.

Its like being required to show up to work on time according to what's stated in an employee handbook. That doesn't mean that you HAVE to be told to show up to work on time -- you're just being made aware of the requirement.

What the shit kind of petty hair-splitting is this??

"No, they're not being told -- they're being made aware. Totally different."

Do you really think anybody is buying all the bullshit you're shoveling?

 

[Retro Rob]

What the shit kind of petty hair-splitting is this??

"No, they're not being told -- they're being made aware. Totally different."

Do you really think anybody is buying all the bullshit you're shoveling?

Read again, sir. A requirement to be at work on time doesn't suggest that you don't know how to be at work on time.

Its a policy that they put in writing and are making sure you are aware of the policy, is what I'm saying.

 

[Retro Rob]

A shame. I may not share your beliefs but I've lent you a certain amount of respect and credence as I do with all members with whom I've discussed issues on this board.

Whether you believe me or not is up to you.

Just because I don't believe you doesn't mean I don't respect you.

 

[alzan]

Huh? Who said people need religion to do good?

I said doing good is a part of religion.

Doing good is part of being a human being

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Read again, sir. A requirement to be at work on time doesn't suggest that you don't know how to be at work on time.

But of course it does. How else do I know what time is "on time"? Telepathy? Why would there need to be a written requirement if everyone already knew what it was? They just wrote it down because they were bored?

 

[SlowSpyder]

I don't see how any of this matters today. Of course, religion has a bloody history full of intolerance, hatred, sectarianism, etc.

However, none of our contemporaries have anything to do with what happened during the Crusades.

I'm glad you agree that religion has a bloody history. What is contemporary christianity up to these days?

"Still creating death and destruction over a silly book and an imaginary friend.

Helping influence laws... life in prison for what you do with another consenting adult that affects no one else. Too bad they dropped the death penatly... an eye for an eye, a life for an anus.

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Pussies. Put the death penalty back, the bible is clear.

This is nice.

Army of God.

I'm glad we're not busy curing diseases with stem cells.

Condoms are worse than AIDS, I guess.

I think we're better off without religion.

 

[Retro Rob]

But of course it does. How else do I know what time is "on time"? Telepathy? Why would there need to be a written requirement if everyone already knew what it was? They just wrote it down because they were bored?

Well, after learning what time you need to arrive at work, why do they give you a copy of the "on-time" page of your handbook?

You've been told, so why do they feel you need it?

 

[alzan]

Yeah, but I don't believe you.

It doesn't take a PhD to recognize that I wasn't saying that religion is required for people do to good; rather, I said doing good is a requirement of the religion you'd join.

Those two things aren't remotely the same, though, you insist on treating them as if they are.

True and I corrected my misreading of that particular post by you.

I do still however take issue with the idea of being required to do good by a religion. Like I said in a previous post, doing good is required to being a human being; I'll further quantify that and say doing good is required to be a compassionate human being.

Honestly, why go to all the bother and hoopla of doing good just to meet the requirements of being part of a particular religion? I mean I get the whole business of being part of the church or religious community but to me (and I'll admit it sounds a little campy) the only "club" or group I need to belong to is the human race. Any other club or group there might be I feel dilutes me as a human being.

 

[Retro Rob]

True and I corrected my misreading of that particular post by you.

I do still however take issue with the idea of being required to do good by a religion. Like I said in a previous post, doing good is required to being a human being; I'll further quantify that and say doing good is required to be a compassionate human being.

Honestly, why go to all the bother and hoopla of doing good just to meet the requirements of being part of a particular religion? I mean I get the whole business of being part of the church or religious community but to me (and I'll admit it sounds a little campy) the only "club" or group I need to belong to is the human race. Any other club or group there might be I feel dilutes me as a human being.

If doing good was as a part of humanity as you say it is, then why do we need police? Why do we need laws? Why do we need anything that regulates behavior?

Because people don't inherently do good. The evidence supports that doing good is something humans have to learn to do, IMO.

 

[alzan]

I'm glad you agree that religion has a bloody history. What is contemporary christianity up to these days?

"Still creating death and destruction over a silly book and an imaginary friend.

Helping influence laws... life in prison for what you do with another consenting adult that affects no one else. Too bad they dropped the death penatly... an eye for an eye, a life for an anus.

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Pussies. Put the death penalty back, the bible is clear.

This is nice.

Army of God.

I'm glad we're not busy curing diseases with stem cells.

Condoms are worse than AIDS, I guess.

I think we're better off without religion.

The actions of the some Christian groups in African countries is horrendous. The passing of the Sharia-like anti-gay law in Uganda is especially troubling given that it's passage was at least in part due to the actions and words of Rev. Scott Lively of Massachusetts. Several Ugandan Parliament members actually gave his speeches and presentations credit for helping them decide how to vote.

Heh, WBC and their "God Hates Fags" movement. I remember meeting up with them at an LGBT rally at my old high school a few years back; we were 300-500 strong to their seven, count 'em seven, members who showed up with their GHF signs. It's really too bad the local police were there to protect the WBC; a few well-placed rotten tomatoes and eggs would have done the WBCers some good.

 

[SlowSpyder]

If doing good was as a part of humanity as you say it is, then why do we need police? Why do we need laws? Why do we need anything that regulates behavior?

Because people don't inherently do good. The evidence supports that doing good is something humans have to learn to do, IMO.

Because 'doing bad' is also part of us.

Today I put my change in the collection bucket for the Ronald McDonald House. I didn't even give them my money for a selfish reason like getting in better with god.

 

[Retro Rob]

Because 'doing bad' is also part of us.

Today I put my change in the collection bucket for the Ronald McDonald House. I didn't even give them my money for a selfish reason like getting in better with god.

But Alzan was suggesting that doing good is so innate to humans, that we would just figure it out.

This is a classic claim made by atheist to dismiss the need for laws on behavior given by religious authority thousands of years ago.

If they really believe we'll just "figure it out", then suggest removing all secular laws on human behavior and just let people "figure it out". They'll see how good people really can be on their own while hiding behind those bolted doors with snipers on the roof.

 

[alzan]

If doing good was as a part of humanity as you say it is, then why do we need police? Why do we need laws? Why do we need anything that regulates behavior?

Because people don't inherently do good. The evidence supports that doing good is something humans have to learn to do, IMO.

Now you're being truly facetious. I said doing good is required to be a compassionate human being.

I will agree that doing good is a learned positive behavior just as doing bad is a learned negative behavior. But once learned they are reinforced by the feedback we receive from society for our words and actions. With a relative few simple lessons a child will quickly associate doing good with positive reactions and feedback from their family and peers; soon after they will hopefully take the positive feedback and reactions into themselves and start doing good deeds because it makes them feel good.

Unfortunately because of bad upbringing and unspeakable evils done to them as children; as well of some peoples need for power and control, we will always need police and courts to apprehend and punish those who go against our laws and societal mores.

But Alzan was suggesting that doing good is so innate to humans, that we would just figure it out.

If you'll notice I did correct that a few posts down.

Although that would be an interesting study if they haven't already; how would a baby/child behave if raised with very little human contact (feeding and cleaning, medical needs) behave towards another baby/child so raised.

 

[Retro Rob]

Now you're being truly facetious. I said doing good is required to be a compassionate human being.

I will agree that doing good is a learned positive behavior just as doing bad is a learned negative behavior. But once learned they are reinforced by the feedback we receive from society for our words and actions. With a relative few simple lessons a child will quickly associate doing good with positive reactions and feedback from their family and peers; soon after they will hopefully take the positive feedback and reactions into themselves and start doing good deeds because it makes them feel good.

Unfortunately because of bad upbringing and unspeakable evils done to them as children; as well of some peoples need for power and control, we will always need police and courts to apprehend and punish those who go against our laws and societal mores.

I will admit, the following post is serious, but the last paragraph was a bit sarcastic.

To late to edit it now, so my bad.

 

[SlowSpyder]

The actions of the some Christian groups in African countries is horrendous. The passing of the Sharia-like anti-gay law in Uganda is especially troubling given that it's passage was at least in part due to the actions and words of Rev. Scott Lively of Massachusetts. Several Ugandan Parliament members actually gave his speeches and presentations credit for helping them decide how to vote.

Heh, WBC and their "God Hates Fags" movement. I remember meeting up with them at an LGBT rally at my old high school a few years back; we were 300-500 strong to their seven, count 'em seven, members who showed up with their GHF signs. It's really too bad the local police were there to protect the WBC; a few well-placed rotten tomatoes and eggs would have done the WBCers some good.

Yea, even if contemporary christians aren't invading cities to plunder and forcibly convert people, some still have their ways of spreading the hatred that is indeed found in the bible. Glad to hear you were part of a rally / protest against some of that hatred. If there was a truly loving higher power, I think you would get some brownie points with that god.

I'd like for Rob to respond. Maybe he didn't realize that modern christians do indeed spread hate. Hate can come in many forms.

(g'night all)

 

[alzan]

Yea, even if contemporary christians aren't invading cities to plunder and forcibly convert people, some still have their ways of spreading the hatred that is indeed found in the bible. Glad to hear you were part of a rally / protest against some of that hatred. If there was a truly loving higher power, I think you would get some brownie points with that god.

I'd like for Rob to respond. Maybe he didn't realize that modern christians do indeed spread hate. Hate can come in many forms.

(g'night all)

I'm selfish, I didn't do it for brownie points, I did it cause it felt good.