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The Tesla 3 will probably be a bust

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Didn't Tesla rush the Model X launch and deliver a bunch with defects? I'd hate to be one of the first in line for a Model 3... they are going to have crazy pressure on their QA guys at launch time.
 
tweakmonkey said:
Didn't Tesla rush the Model X launch and deliver a bunch with defects? I'd hate to be one of the first in line for a Model 3... they are going to have crazy pressure on their QA guys at launch time.
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Explain to me the 8 recalls I've had to have performed on my GM product.
 
desura said:
Those aren't really hard commitments. They're refundable $1k deposits. As the car becomes more concrete, you'll see a few people backing out once they see the full details.
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Thankfully someone else realizes this. Reservation numbers mean nothing really, especially refundable ones.

tweakmonkey said:
Didn't Tesla rush the Model X launch and deliver a bunch with defects? I'd hate to be one of the first in line for a Model 3... they are going to have crazy pressure on their QA guys at launch time.
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They delayed it, and delayed it again, then delayed it a third time. And then it STILL had issues. Same with the S, it will be the same with the E. They don't give two shits about QA, cars are shipped from the factory so they can meet their delivery numbers by end-of-quarter. Issues are then rectified once the car is marked "delivered".
 
I have a feeling some tesla 3 owners will cancel their order once they see the option list. The model s goes from 66k for the base to 167k for the fully optioned one, doubt the 3 will triple in price but double at least.
"Oh the autopilot is a 5k option? And the enhanced autopilot is another 3k option... on a 35k car?!? I thought this was standard..."
 
shabby said:
I have a feeling some tesla 3 owners will cancel their order once they see the option list. The model s goes from 66k for the base to 167k for the fully optioned one, doubt the 3 will triple in price but double at least.
"Oh the autopilot is a 5k option? And the enhanced autopilot is another 3k option... on a 35k car?!? I thought this was standard..."
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That would only make sense, if a competitor sold a equivalent vehicle with the same options for less money.
 
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shabby said:
I have a feeling some tesla 3 owners will cancel their order once they see the option list. The model s goes from 66k for the base to 167k for the fully optioned one, doubt the 3 will triple in price but double at least.
"Oh the autopilot is a 5k option? And the enhanced autopilot is another 3k option... on a 35k car?!? I thought this was standard..."
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For starters, Tesla sells everything they make with large ticket options to purchase in the form of unlocking the battery, etc. Most people putting $1k down on a Model 3 already have an idea what Tesla is about or they wouldn't make that leap.

As a person with a Model 3 reservation, I could literally give a shot about the self driving capability. The nerd in me loves it, but it serves no practical use for my family and as this will be my wife's primary car, and her trips are fairly short, we'd never need it. As for unlocking the extra range? That might be the only thing I would pay for, but that is assuming the new battery factory lowers that cost a little bit. I'm hoping they start selling super charger subscriptions instead of an up front unlock as I'd only want to turn that on for that once yearly longer trip.

So yeah... Some people might be turned off by the option cost, but I don't think it will have as negative an impact as you think.

Finally, they announced the other day that anyone reserving a Model 3 today would be taking deliver in Mid-2018. That is pretty big in contrast to predictions of 2020.
 
Brovane said:
With such a young company is past performance a good indicator of future performance?
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The problem isn't necessarily with the company but Musk himself. He substantially delayed the roadster for some inconsequential door sill change, and the X for the wacky gull wing doors. Doesn't seem like someone who learns from mistakes even if the smarter employees do what they can to unshit the bed.
 
agent00f said:
The problem isn't necessarily with the company but Musk himself. He substantially delayed the roadster for some inconsequential door sill change, and the X for the wacky gull wing doors. Doesn't seem like someone who learns from mistakes even if the smarter employees do what they can to unshit the bed.
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I agree, Musk is the big wild card in this. Is he taking a more hands-off approach to the Model-3? Tesla has the ability to deliver the Model-3 on time, it will remain to see if they can actually do it.
 
While I have been following electric vehicles ever since GM massaged and killed the EV1, I suppose I am more of a Tesla fanboy in that they weren't ashamed of their BEV. It is funny to me that GM swept the EV1 and Saturn under the rug, when they were good ideas. Their bad ideas drove them into the ground, and they got a loan to come around again.

The batteries are making good progress, and that is the only thing that has ever held electric cars back. Whether going with permanent magnet or induction electric motors, the simplicity compared to any ICE is staggering.



Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
Sephire said:
Not gonna happen anytime soon.
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I know it's a unique car, but I wish it didn't have some of the features it has, such as the 17" touchscreen (too big & no physical buttons aside from the steering wheel controls), door handles that extend out (why? it's cool, but just another thing to break), etc.
 
Kaido said:
I know it's a unique car, but I wish it didn't have some of the features it has, such as the 17" touchscreen (too big & no physical buttons aside from the steering wheel controls), door handles that extend out (why? it's cool, but just another thing to break), etc.
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I agree. It also looks too similar to the Model S IMO. I would think that they should have made something that looked like the Bolt actually. Ideally they would have partnered with an existing manufacturer and done like LG supply just the drivetrain and battery, let them handle he body frame and interior which are commodity.

Tesla I hear has pretty bad fit and finish and Qc not too surprising at all honestly. Ramping up production is more a test of endurance than brilliant innovation.

Still, hope they succeed.
 
desura said:
I agree. It also looks too similar to the Model S IMO. I would think that they should have made something that looked like the Bolt actually. Ideally they would have partnered with an existing manufacturer and done like LG supply just the drivetrain and battery, let them handle he body frame and interior which are commodity.

Tesla I hear has pretty bad fit and finish and Qc not too surprising at all honestly. Ramping up production is more a test of endurance than brilliant innovation.

Still, hope they succeed.
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Personally, I think the Model S looks fine. My issue with it is size. I simply don't need or want that large of a car in the city. The Model 3 on the other hand would fit my requirements more closely.

Since everybody is already or will be putting out electrics that look like run of the mill econoboxes I see little reason for Tesla to compete that strenuously for the exact same customer.
 
K1052 said:
Personally, I think the Model S looks fine. My issue with it is size. I simply don't need or want that large of a car in the city. The Model 3 on the other hand would fit my requirements more closely.

Since everybody is already or will be putting out electrics that look like run of the mill econoboxes I see little reason for Tesla to compete that strenuously for the exact same customer.
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Well, that's the thing. They should have specialized on the drivetrain components and the battery chemistry and then licensed designs with existing manufacturers. Like, Tesla hasn't been so great at fit and finish they say. And it is losing a ton of money. Paring it down, so they aren't even bothering with doing everything like paint chemistries would be the rational thing to do. The big automakers have got down the part about mass production already.
 
desura said:
Well, that's the thing. They should have specialized on the drivetrain components and the battery chemistry and then licensed designs with existing manufacturers. Like, Tesla hasn't been so great at fit and finish they say. And it is losing a ton of money. Paring it down, so they aren't even bothering with doing everything like paint chemistries would be the rational thing to do. The big automakers have got down the part about mass production already.
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I've driven one and been in a few. Compared to most of the domestics I've been in I'll give Tesla a leg up on them but below BMW/MB quality. AFAIK Tesla isn't loosing money on sales of the S or the X, just all the profit has been plowed back into the company for R&D projects and to launch the Model 3. I also have serious doubts that any major manufacturer would actually build a vehicle on a platform they didn't believe in or think was in their overall financial interest. Even now it's clear that the automakers have been dragged kicking and screaming into electrics, in part at least, because of Musk's relative lack of failure to do what they all regarded as impossible.
 
K1052 said:
AFAIK Tesla isn't loosing money on sales of the S or the X, just all the profit has been plowed back into the company for R&D projects and to launch the Model 3.
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From the earnings reports, essentially all of Tesla's gross profits on auto sales are used up by the operating side, ie the cost of all those service centers. Tesla's R&D and capital expenditures are financed by new equity offerings and loans. Capital expenditures also only affect profit/loss at a modest level since they have a long lifespan.

When people point out that Tesla has unusually high gross margin (for an American car manufacturer), they forget to mention that it also has high operating costs.
 
Accord99 said:
From the earnings reports, essentially all of Tesla's gross profits on auto sales are used up by the operating side, ie the cost of all those service centers. Tesla's R&D and capital expenditures are financed by new equity offerings and loans. Capital expenditures also only affect profit/loss at a modest level since they have a long lifespan.

When people point out that Tesla has unusually high gross margin (for an American car manufacturer), they forget to mention that it also has high operating costs.
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I don't follow them that closely so could certainly be the case.
 
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