The rich get richer as stock buybacks surge

[Engineer]

We used to. Guess what choice people made?

To offshore the manufacturing and American jobs to make more profit?

 

[BoberFett]

To offshore the manufacturing and American jobs to make more profit?

Willful ignorance. You has it.

 

[dmcowen674]

Rich Republican supporters like Bober are directly responsible for this.

6-24-2014

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/for-most-families--wealth-has-vanished-172130204.html

For most families, wealth has vanished



If you’re a typical family, you’re considerably poorer than you used to be. No wonder the “recovery” feels like a recession.




A new study published by the Russell Sage foundation helps explain why many families feel like they’re falling behind: They actually are. The study, which measures the average wealth of U.S. households by income level, reveals a startling decline in wealth nationwide.

The median household in 2013 had a net worth of just $56,335 -- 43% lower than the median wealth level right before the recession began in 2007, and 36% lower than a decade ago.

Not surprisingly, lower-income households have lost a larger portion of their wealth than those with higher incomes

By technical measures, the economy has been expanding since the middle of 2009, which is why economists label the past six years a recovery. Yet it’s the weakest recovery since the 1930s, with incomes stagnant, consumers reluctant to spend and employers skittish about hiring. Lost wealth has a lot of do with that, since people can’t spend money they don’t have, and they don’t feel like spending when they’re in the hole, anyway.

 

[Engineer]

Willful ignorance. You has it.

So my statement was false?

 

[Matt1970]

So my statement was false?

For the most part it was. If you were around in the 70's and 80's you saw the choices. It's not like one day all the store shelves were emptied and then stocked with import crap.

 

[Engineer]

For the most part it was. If you were around in the 70's and 80's you saw the choices. It's not like one day all the store shelves were emptied and then stocked with import crap.

I never stated anything about that. Are you saying that the people that exported the jobs didn't do it for more profit? Yes or no?

(and I'm not saying that the consumer doesn't play a part in this mess...they absolutely do).

 

[Matt1970]

I never stated anything about that. Are you saying that the people that exported the jobs didn't do it for more profit? Yes or no?

(and I'm not saying that the consumer doesn't play a part in this mess...they absolutely do).

Sure there are some that did it for that, but many did it because it was either that or go bankrupt.

 

[Engineer]

Sure there are some that did it for that, but many did it because it was either that or go bankrupt.

I could say the same for the consumers then. Many could only purchase the cheap Chinese stuff or go bankrupt (especially true today now that the cycle has run its' course and the middle class gutted).

It's a 2 way street .... and it started with the people who shipped the jobs out in return for importing cheap shit in.

 

[Matt1970]

I could say the same for the consumers then. Many could only purchase the cheap Chinese stuff or go bankrupt (especially true today now that the cycle has run its' course and the middle class gutted).

It's a 2 way street .... and it started with the people who shipped the jobs out in return for importing cheap shit in.

I grew up in it. It didn't start with the jobs being shipped overseas. Most people weren't on the edge of bankruptcy with the only thing keeping them afloat being the availability of cheaper imported crap. It started with cheap crap made overseas by foreign companies. It wasn't American companies closing shop here and opening there just to make crap and then sell it in America. The majority of that came later. I think Bober was right, you do have willful ignorance

 

[Engineer]

NVM. Not worth any more of my time. Believe what you want.

 

[michal1980]

Rich Republican supporters like Bober are directly responsible for this.

6-24-2014

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/for-most-families--wealth-has-vanished-172130204.html

For most families, wealth has vanished



If you’re a typical family, you’re considerably poorer than you used to be. No wonder the “recovery” feels like a recession.




A new study published by the Russell Sage foundation helps explain why many families feel like they’re falling behind: They actually are. The study, which measures the average wealth of U.S. households by income level, reveals a startling decline in wealth nationwide.

The median household in 2013 had a net worth of just $56,335 -- 43% lower than the median wealth level right before the recession began in 2007, and 36% lower than a decade ago.

Not surprisingly, lower-income households have lost a larger portion of their wealth than those with higher incomes

By technical measures, the economy has been expanding since the middle of 2009, which is why economists label the past six years a recovery. Yet it’s the weakest recovery since the 1930s, with incomes stagnant, consumers reluctant to spend and employers skittish about hiring. Lost wealth has a lot of do with that, since people can’t spend money they don’t have, and they don’t feel like spending when they’re in the hole, anyway.

LOL you on the left are so warped. Republicans are to blame? Democrats were charge of government for how long now? When is your side going to take responsibility?

this is the current warped view of the world the left has.

If republicans have a majority of government, they are responsible for everything bad
If republicans have a minority of government, they are responsible for everything bad

 

[bshole]

And we have seen it for the last 30-40 years. It's just easier to be like McOwned and blame it on the rich shipping our jobs off. It used to always be the people purchasing stuff in the stores that always had the last say but even now that isn't the case much anymore as you don't have a lot of choices on what you buy.

Man that isn't fair, NOBODY rails on the rich shipping overseas more than myself. Check my posting history. Why does McOwned get all the credit for attacking the rich? When do I get my props?

 

[Matt1970]

NVM. Not worth any more of my time. Believe what you want.

I believe the truth. I watched it evolve. Even for your theory to hold true of jobs being shipped overseas first before the massive push for cheaper stuff from the consumers, people still have to pick the cheaper crap over the American made products. There was quite a long stretch of time where you could choose between the two and imports won out. American made products gathered dust on the shoves of stores. Sorry that conflicts with what you would like to be true.

 

[Matt1970]

Man that isn't fair, NOBODY rails on the rich shipping overseas more than myself. Check my posting history. Why does McOwned get all the credit for attacking the rich? When do I get my props?

You are unique my friend. You are in the 5% yet you think you are middle class. Did you ever see Ice Age where the mammoth thought she was a possum? At least McOwned knows where he stands in society.

 

[LegendKiller]

Why do you have to be such a dick about this?

There are multiple reasons- some of which you've outlined, but the perception of their stock being undervalued IS a well-documented reason as well.

http://www.zacks.com/education/articles.php?id=33



So basically, you both can be right, since there isn't just one reason/answer for it.

I know, I know, it's more fun to be a smug dick, entertaining the usual illiterates.

I am a dick about it because 1) I am naturally a dick 2) I get tired of people like Doc prance around like wealth is only generated through "hard work" and swallow the jizz that the right spews like a $5 crack whore needing the next fix. There is no "hard work" in this for the most part, it is a bunch of rich assholes who got together, donated a shit-ton of money to politicians, and increase their wealth through continuation, or passage, of laws that help them increase their wealth.

I have been through business school and have my CFA Charter while being in the investment industry for over a decade, on the issuer, banking, and now investing side. I know what the *THEORY* states. I know what buybacks are used for in any reasonable sense.

I also know what they are really used for in the last decade. *RARELY* do you find a company purchasing stock (aka, retiring capital) when the stocks is significantly below book value (thus creating net capital) or at some minor multiple of book value. One of the few that is actually disciplined about it is Warren Buffett.

Pretty much all of the remainder use it as a tax/income gimmick that helps the investing class. That's it.

Anybody who believes otherwise is just chewing another man's cud.

 

[LegendKiller]

I believe the truth. I watched it evolve. Even for your theory to hold true of jobs being shipped overseas first before the massive push for cheaper stuff from the consumers, people still have to pick the cheaper crap over the American made products. There was quite a long stretch of time where you could choose between the two and imports won out. American made products gathered dust on the shoves of stores. Sorry that conflicts with what you would like to be true.

I actually somewhat agree with this.

I got into an argument on FB with a friend after she extolled the virtues of American Girl dolls which I pointed out were actually made in China. She then decided to call me anti-American because her husband was a Marine blah blah blah. I pointed out that I go out of my way to purchase American for most items, my snowblower is an Ariens (Briggs American engine), my garage shelves Edsel (as opposed to Whalen China), my furniture is mostly American (couch) or Amish (tables, bedroom furniture), all of my handtools are USA. Yet I was called an "elitist". Her husband has been laid off twice by American manufacturers after he got out of the Marines because they offshored. And how dare I rip on Wal Mart, I was patronizing her and saying she was stupid!

You'd think that after getting laid off twice she's stop shoveling the shit, but nope, people keep on keepin' on. 'Murica!

 

[Zebo]

"Hard Work" is largely BS. Wealth is all about market position. Another example besides buying politicians that low class Republicans can understand - who do you thinks work harder the 20 Mexicans putting a roof on a house 12hrs in 110 degrees direct sun or the roofing company owner sitting in his A/C F350 watching them? Should be obvious but I'll make it more obvious. I'd go to the bar with him for a couple hours while they were roofing one of my houses and shoot the shit sometimes golf. He had market position. I did too.

The problem in modern America is neither side is giving your avg person market position to increase wealth. I blame outsourcing anti union campaigns, min wage which has not kept pace with reality, outsourcing what they can't outsource with 2m cheap labor immigrants a year among other things. And both sides are in on it. I'm convinced we'll be a banana type republic in 30 years. 1% super elite. 5% who protects and works for them as middle class. 94% in poverty and destitution. And forget about political process. Hope I'm wrong since my kids are just "coming of age" call me selfish but I dont want no damn adult kids living at home like many of my friends.

 

[LegendKiller]

"Hard Work" is largely BS. Wealth is all about market position. Another example besides buying politicians that low class Republicans can understand - who do you thinks work harder the 20 Mexicans putting a roof on a house 12hrs in 110 degrees direct sun or the roofing company owner sitting in his A/C F350 watching them? Should be obvious but I'll make it more obvious. I'd go to the bar with him for a couple hours while they were roofing one of my houses and shoot the shit sometimes golf. He had market position. I did too.

Hard work was put in quotations because you can call it whatever you want, intelligence to deploy capital, smart investing strategies, blah blah blah. What it really is is a hustle in this case.

It's like hedge fund managers deferring income to roll it into the fund, then getting it back out after a couple years as capital gains. It is a scam. They saved over 20% by doing this. Where is the law to eliminate it? It isn't to be found anywhere. Why? Because they lobby to keep it. Rich people lobby other rich people to keep a tax exemption that allows rich people to build other rich people money.

 

[Zebo]

Rich Republican supporters like Bober are directly responsible for this.

No Bober is a libertarian who thinks we should have no regs, no labor laws, basically no laws but Constitution and protecting private property to chuck squatters off your land.. We tried that up to robber barron era and guided age which was a massive failure and doesnt work at all in a post industrial world where government doesn't give you 360 acres anymore and people live in cities. We already know what works see 1950-1985ish.

 

[Zaap]

who do you thinks work harder the 20 Mexicans putting a roof on a house 12hrs in 110 degrees direct sun or the roofing company owner sitting in his A/C F350 watching them?

Both parties in your example are assholes.
One group, illegal workers sneaking into someone else's labor market as scabs, willing to do things that citizens only should be doing for a fair wage... for pennies on the dollar. Granted, the corrupt politicians invite them in, and assholes line up to exploit them, but they're still doing what they know is actually fucking over someone else. (And ultimately fucking themselves over as well).

The other side is the asshole who's violating labor laws and fucking over his fellow citizens with his illegal slave labor force that he exploits until the next wave arrives that's even more desperate and willing to work for even less than his current illegal labor force.

Did you and this asshole whine about exporting urr jerbs and pissing and moaning aboit "the rich" while you were having a beer with the modern day slaver whose whole business model revolves around fucking over his fellow citizens and exploiting illegal labor to enrich himself? If so, the irony must have been palpable.

 

[BoberFett]

I never stated anything about that. Are you saying that the people that exported the jobs didn't do it for more profit? Yes or no?

(and I'm not saying that the consumer doesn't play a part in this mess...they absolutely do).

Of course they did. What's your point? Corporations did it to make money, consumers did it to save money. In your mind, are corporations supposed to be benevolent guides, ensuring that their customers make the right choices, while consumers get to fuck over anybody they want to save a buck?

 

[cuafpr]

We were warned decades ago not to buy cheap ass import crap or this would happen. Now we all sit around dumbfounded looking around for who to blame it on. The rich are making money, let's blame them. Wait, weren't they the ones warning us to begin with? Enjoy your $8 blue jeans and $10 toasters.

There is a lot of truth to this... anyone that ever product A vs Product B that was made the USA and cost a bit more is to blaim. The consumers made a choice, the gov't allowed that choice to become even worse with shit like NAFTA.. and now this is it....

 

[BoberFett]

I believe the truth. I watched it evolve. Even for your theory to hold true of jobs being shipped overseas first before the massive push for cheaper stuff from the consumers, people still have to pick the cheaper crap over the American made products. There was quite a long stretch of time where you could choose between the two and imports won out. American made products gathered dust on the shoves of stores. Sorry that conflicts with what you would like to be true.

Rubbish, everybody lusted over that top of the line Zenith TV. Sony? Pfffft...

 

[Zaap]

I am a dick about it because 1) I am naturally a dick 2)

True.

Sounds like you need to find another line of work. One problem is, a lot of dumbasses never learn to do much, never develop any interests that they can turn into fullfilling occupations, and so they drift lifelessly into some dull, paper-pushing bullshit like it sounds like you're mired in. Then they get all cynical and mad at everything and everyone and just become dicks. In worst case scenarios, they end up doing nothing much but bitching about "da man" and "outsercing err jerbs!" and claiming no one else is ever doing any work or anything valid... ie burnout dick ravings.

Probably too late for you, but if possible find something you enjoy doing instead of slaving away shuffling other people's paper around, and make that pay. Eventually your outlook won't be so bleak. Maybe you'll even opt out of the ongoing National Pity Party and start laughing a bit at those a little too caught up wallowing in it. Maybe.

 

[Zebo]

Both parties in your example are assholes.
One group, illegal workers sneaking into someone else's labor market as scabs, willing to do things that citizens only should be doing for a fair wage... for pennies on the dollar. Granted, the corrupt politicians invite them in, and assholes line up to exploit them, but they're still doing what they know is actually fucking over someone else. (And ultimately fucking themselves over as well).

The other side is the asshole who's violating labor laws and fucking over his fellow citizens with his illegal slave labor force that he exploits until the next wave arrives that's even more desperate and willing to work for even less than his current illegal labor force.

Did you and this asshole whine about exporting urr jerbs and pissing and moaning aboit "the rich" while you were having a beer with the modern day slaver whose whole business model revolves around fucking over his fellow citizens and exploiting illegal labor to enrich himself? If so, the irony must have been palpable.

A lot of assumption. How do you assume illegal? We do have everify in my state so I assume legal. But it's not my right to look into his employment files. I hired subs on a 1099. My legal record keeping duties end there. You do realize 2m legal immigrants come here a year right?

Oh and when everyone is paid union wages like he gets on govt and other prevailing wage jobs he makes a fuck ton more money per square. So naw man it's in his interest to have well paid labors. It's in everyone's interest. I could sell houses again to middle class ppl which I love designing and building.

My jobs are done. I havent w2 "worked" for anybody since 2001. It's my kids, thier kids I worry about.