The real hero of the 507th.

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Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
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Originally posted by: VioletAura


Someone who behaves recklessly and puts other peoples lives at risk doesn't deserve a medal. It is a shame you still can't see that. I don't know whether I should be laughing at you or feeling sorry for you. He was given that medal for political reasons in an attempt to create heros in a war where there are none. He didn't go above and beyond the call of duty and used poor judgement in his handling of the entire situation, including his time in captivity. More balls... apparently he was thinking with that part like almost all men, obsessed with being macho and not seeing the big picture. More balls than brains.
You Silly Trout, they were ambushed, are our soldiers suppose to just throw down their arms everytime someone takes a shot at them?
The "individual initiative" is not "what got the job done" in Normandy and the Ardennes. The Allies simple overwhelmed the Germans with more tanks, more soldiers and more guns. It is no big secret the Germans fought way better than them. I don't see what "job got done" in korea. The US lost there, apparently human wave attacks where too much for the "individual initiative".
Man are you full of sh!t. Of course you are the same Skell who stated that Iran and Syria would invade Iraq and butcher the American troops. Maybe you should adjust your Burka so it doesn't effect your eyesight.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
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Simply repeating your mindless, agenda driven crap doesn't make a point, sorry. You are so out of touch with reality concerning warfare it makes me wonder if you're actually some obstinate 12 year girl. Add to the mix you know nothing of WWII or Korea, nice.

The "individual initiative" is not "what got the job done" in Normandy and the Ardennes. The Allies simple overwhelmed the Germans with more tanks, more soldiers and more guns. It is no big secret the Germans fought way better than them. I don't see what "job got done" in korea. The US lost there, apparently human wave attacks where too much for the "individual initiative
Oh I just love this paragraph! Where did you go to school, NORTH KOREA?! Yet more examples of how little you know...
Please BrownAura, amuse us with more comedy!!!
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
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That has to be one of the most misguided and uninformed spoutings about military conflict I have ever seen. Congratulations.
I know, isn't he/she great? I'm still laughing.... :)
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
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Sounds like the Iraqis who found it in thier heart not to blow his head off upon his surrender/capture so he could live to talk about it on 60 minutes are the real heros. Must have taken serious internal fortitude not to.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
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Originally posted by: Zebo
Sounds like the Iraqis who found it in thier heart not to blow his head off upon his surrender/capture so he could live to talk about it on 60 minutes are the real heros. Must have taken serious internal fortitude not to.
Or they saw the writting on the wall and didn't want to pay the piper for war crimes.

 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Zebo
Sounds like the Iraqis who found it in thier heart not to blow his head off upon his surrender/capture so he could live to talk about it on 60 minutes are the real heros. Must have taken serious internal fortitude not to.
Or they saw the writting on the wall and didn't want to pay the piper for war crimes.
I saw the kid on 60 min and have to agree with his assesment. He was'nt a hero... everyone with the training would do the same. He was firing on the ememy for goodness sakes. What, is tucking tail or playing dead the expectation of a supply mechanic today and anything else is heroism?
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
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Being aware of the obvious tide of the war is heroic? Maybe they had a similar view on their leader as the doctors and nurses at Lynch's hospital, the ones who told her not to even mention Sadaam's name.
Regardless, I too think they should be commended for not immediately executing their POWs - many young Iranians weren't so fortunate. It's too bad we can't have BrownAura here talk to some Iranian vets who found themselves on the business end of an electrifed meathook, maybe then he/she would be able to rationalize a soldiers desire to not immediately surrender to an enemy with a history of such brutal treatment.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
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Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Zebo
Sounds like the Iraqis who found it in thier heart not to blow his head off upon his surrender/capture so he could live to talk about it on 60 minutes are the real heros. Must have taken serious internal fortitude not to.
Or they saw the writting on the wall and didn't want to pay the piper for war crimes.
I saw the kid on 60 min and have to agree with his assesment. He was'nt a hero... everyone with the training would do the same. He was firing on the ememy for goodness sakes. What, is tucking tail or playing dead the expectation of a supply mechanic today and anything else is heroism?
WTF are you talking about, I said that it was his duty to return fire and kill as many of the enemy combatants as possible.
 

Sultan

Banned
Feb 21, 2002
2,297
1
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No correction has been offered, only a blatant falsehood. Poland's elite GROM units were tasked with securing a number of Iraqi oil wells in the OPENING HOURS of the invasion, as everyone feared a repeat of Sadaam's last little bonfire strategy. As I recall, Warsaw got pissed at Washington for disclosing this as well, saying something to the effect of "GROM doesn't need or want publicity." Anyway, paramilitary troops are still troops, so you're wrong.
WHAT?!? Is this coming out of your @ss? There is ONE article from weeklystandard which supports this. And even IF Poland did participate, is this your idea of a coalition of "liberators"?
Link

No, Sadaam is to blame for that. He had the means to provide a better life for his people after the first war, but decided if the UN wasn't going to let him have his toys he'd make it hell for the Iraqi populace in order to incite blame on his enemies. Like all Arab despots, he needed a scapegoat. We had to pressure him for years to accept the Food For Oil program, christ even the French were in the end with us on that!
Try to read these with an OPEN mind and not filter out anything and everything that would make your "case" look better. Look at the human impact:
Link1
Link2

For fvcksakes, read with an open mind. When I mention Chalabi, you are content to note you were right about him, while you completely miss that this was the character of one of "exiles" that you mentioned were asking for US to overthrow Saddam. When I mention the conflict, you completely characterise the insurgents as the evil people. Do you fail to remember it was the US who initiated this war? Bombed Iraq to kingdome come? They're STILL dropping bombs in Baghdad this moment.

I think if someone came into your house and wouldnt leave, and you couldnt get him out, you would destroy your house so that no one would benefit. Atleast I would. And taking a fair amount of liberty, I would guess 50% of those who, if asked, would have the same opinion as mine.

 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
23,662
25,566
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You're really scraping the bottom of the barrel here sultan. Do you even remember the topic of this thread? Sure doesn't seem like it.

WHAT?!? Is this coming out of your @ss? There is ONE article from weeklystandard which supports this. And even IF Poland did participate, is this your idea of a coalition of "liberators"?
No, it's coming from me actually watching black-clad GROM personel standing on the gangway of an Iraqi oil facility as commentary footage on CNN back when Warsaw got pissy over US officials divulging Polish participation. No doubt they didn't want to be viewed by other Europeans as active participants in the war; maybe they were more comfortable with only being viewed as a police force, but there they were all the same. Don't you recall the State Department saying they were receiving support from a number of countries, some of which who chose to remain anonymous?
I digress, go HERE and scroll down to the date of April 2, 2003.
Better yet, you can go to their unofficial website - note the list of campaigns they've taken part in.
Yes, they were part of a coallition of liberators. Sadaam is no different than Hitler, Stalin, or Milosevic, and GROM helped remove him. Sounds liberating to me.

So that's one more thing that has nothing to do with the topic that I've proved you wrong over. Who exactly is talking out their ass again?


Moving on....

Try to read these with an OPEN mind and not filter out anything and everything that would make your "case" look better. Look at the human impact:
From the same article: "The United Nations has also criticized Iraq for spending only a tiny fraction of its U.N.-approved oil proceeds on improving nutrition for children. However, there was never free and unrestricted purchase of any goods under the oil-for-food program, and the sanctions committee has at times denied or delayed delivery on some foods and medicines sought by Iraq."
Well we already knew that Sadaam was more interested in providing his thug regime with shiny new toys than his poeple with food and medicine. Sadaam tried to gain dual-use items under the program a number of time, and the UN acted accordingly. Your point?
I'm not denying the human impact, I'll be the first to admit that's one of the bad parts of having to deal with a self-absorbed scumbag like Sadaam. Good thing he's gone now huh? Do tell, what sanctions are in place currently?
2nd link isn't working for me for some reason.


For fvcksakes, read with an open mind. When I mention Chalabi, you are content to note you were right about him, while you completely miss that this was the character of one of "exiles" that you mentioned were asking for US to overthrow Saddam. When I mention the conflict, you completely characterise the insurgents as the evil people. Do you fail to remember it was the US who initiated this war? Bombed Iraq to kingdome come? They're STILL dropping bombs in Baghdad this moment
I mentioned Iraqi exiles, and you assume Chalabi represents Iraqi dissidents worldwide. He doesn't. The link you provided was merely an overview of Chalabi himself, all commonly know facts, nothing more - yet you tout it as some groundbreaking presentation. That second sentence is nothing more than you attempting to put words in my mouth, aiming for a point that just doesn't work. If not, prove it: what exactly is that supposed to mean? I never said Chalabi was the sole representative of Iraqi dissidents as that is simply not true. Apparently someone being the most vocal is good enough for you. That's just sad.
I never claimed all the insurgents were evil people. Again, you're trying to divert away from the real topic at hand with misinformation, stop it. If your argument has enough merit to be considered without being scoffed at, you shouldn't have to resort to these 4th grade tactics.
I would say, in my humble opinion, that roughly 70%-90% of the insurgents are former Ba'athists, Feydayeen, or foreigners coming over the Syrian and Saudi borders. The rest are most likely Iraqis with no love for the US whose ranks are growing by a repetitive cycle of US fvckups.
Yes, I know the US initiated this war - how is that relevent? Bombed Iraq to kingdom come? Last I checked Iraq was still there. Did Baghdad get flattened? No. Did Basra get flattened? No. Did Tikrit get flattened? No. But please, how is that relevent? While it's true that we had some F16s drop a few bombs, some in a foolish show of might, a few more actually going after insurgents, this is in no way anywhere remotely near the amount of ordinance used in the opening days of the war - snap out of it man!

I think if someone came into your house and wouldnt leave, and you couldnt get him out, you would destroy your house so that no one would benefit. Atleast I would. And taking a fair amount of liberty, I would guess 50% of those who, if asked, would have the same opinion as mine.
You are going on the assumption that all Iraqis want the US out immediately, using a weak analogy and a liberal does of opinion. Like the majority of your bullsh!t references, this simply isn't true. Sorry. Your grasp on military affairs seems to be as feeble as BrownAura's. One does not move in, kick out the bad guy, then pack up and leave immediately. Please refer to Japan and Germany for working examples on rebuilding countries.

Let me make this a simple as I can for your miniscule mind:

HOW DOES ANY OF THIS PERTAIN TO MILLER GETTING RECOGNITION FOR DOING HIS JOB?

Can you answer this in a straight forward manner, or will you continue to dance around it like the village idiot?
 

Sultan

Banned
Feb 21, 2002
2,297
1
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First link you provided states: "2003 - GROM soldiers take part in anti-Iraq operation"

I agree they're there now, were they there before? I dont see that mentioned. Second link you provided, from a Polish national, a picture of soldiers holding the American flag. Even IF they were there, is your idea of liberators those who invade a sovereign country for a piece of the oil pie???

Well we already knew that Sadaam was more interested in providing his thug regime with shiny new toys than his poeple with food and medicine. Sadaam tried to gain dual-use items under the program a number of time, and the UN acted accordingly. Your point?
Uptil before Saddam (the @sshole) decided to invade Iran, and then Kuwait (both plenty well with US help or approval; but you'll debate) that, Iraq was pretty well off. As for the three sentences that you picked out from the article, I urge you again to read the whole thing and get an overall picture. I have the same opinion about Saddam as you do, but your patriotism for the US should not be restricted to singing their praises in all they do. Read how they manipulated the oil prices and how they restricted providing almost $7billion of food and machinery (for oil pumping) which HAD been paid.

I mentioned Iraqi exiles, and you assume Chalabi represents Iraqi dissidents worldwide.
Wasnt he the (former?) head of the Iraqi Liberation Congress? And wasnt he handpicked by the US to lead the Iraq Governing Council? Since you agree he has quite a bit of dirt to his credit, why did the US pick him to lead the IGC? If these are the types of "exiles" who wanted Saddam out? No? Then why does the US give him such an important role in the IGC?

The rest are most likely Iraqis with no love for the US whose ranks are growing by a repetitive cycle of US fvckups
Well said.

You are going on the assumption that all Iraqis want the US out immediately, using a weak analogy and a liberal does of opinion. Like the majority of your bullsh!t references, this simply isn't true.
Millions of Iraqis want the US to stay. Thousands dont. I doubt Iraqis wanted the mess Iraq is in right now. I doubt even YOU wanted that. Saddam still lives. Iraqi civilians AND American soldeirs are dying. This whole affair COULD have been handled peacefully. The US didnt want that. This affair can still be resolved if the UN would be allowed to step in, the US wants to retain control. You tell me why.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
23,662
25,566
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You're STILL doing it - I'll ask again:



HOW DOES ANY OF THIS PERTAIN TO MILLER GETTING RECOGNITION FOR DOING HIS JOB?
 

Mardeth

Platinum Member
Jul 24, 2002
2,609
0
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Originally posted by: kage69
Yep, if your ever seen enemy at the gates, kind of same just killed alot more . Yes, hero is a man who saves people but with killing your enemys you save people, so its kind of the same. And fins and russians equipped about the same just that russians had thousands of tanks, planes and canons, when Finaland had practically none, althought it is true that russians werent really ready for winter still most of them lived in winters which were at least as severe as in Finland
The Fins and the Russians were not equipped with the same. The Fins had better cold weather gear, were practically all accomplished skiiers, and had rifles and vehicles better suited to winter warfare than the Russians. The Russians, despite being native from a similar climate, were hampered by, again a horrible winter, poor logistical support, low moral, and to top it off commanders who believed in the tactics of attrition (not a great idea against an enemy who is prepared and no stranger to guerilla tactics).



Your quite right with the equipment, the weapons of Fins were much better, sorry for that, my memory sucks. You still have to consider the fact that a nation of 3.5 miljoen people was against a nation of 171 miljoen citizens. So thats almost 50 Russians for every Fin. Eventhought someone equipped with a sword, 10 guys attacking him with sticks will most probably win. And lets not forget that because of us, russians beated the germans. (They were beta-testing on us :)). It was quite "funny" to read a story of some russian officer who was going to Finland and on the way there, a russian came running toward them screaming "White Death! White Death!" they couldnt calm him down so they knocked him unconscious. Afterward they found that his whole platoon was (tanks and everything) killed by some 20 fins on skies, he was one of the few who survived. Must have been a real motivator to see a man in such a condition cominh from where you are going.

Because of the poor skill to ski, the russians hired athletes and send them but they came back "ripped appart". Motivation, good leadership, knowing the area (fins fought practically on their backyard), the skill to ski were the reason why we "won". Iraqians might devolope some of these characteristics and then your in trouble, there nothing more effective than a motivated man fighting in his backyard...
 

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