The "Race Card" Gets Played

[lupi]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Rainsford

I don't think anyone on these boards is a paid campaign staffer for either candidate, but it's interesting how closely "casual" commentary here reflects the tone of the candidates and their campaigns. And I have yet to hear ANYONE make a good argument for voting for McCain, except that he's not Obama. If there is another argument out there, I have yet to hear it from the candidate himself either.

McCain is the only one with a complete energy plan. McCain wants to do a combination of everything from drilling to alternatives like nulcear/solar/wind. Obama only wants to do alternatives that pass the test of his envirmentalist friends along with inflating tires and tune ups. Obama's energy plan will lead to 10 dollar a gallon gas and a colapse of the economy. I can not vote for any one who is against drilling/nuclear/clean coal/NG.

So if he has such a great energy plan, why doesn't he RUN ON IT? As I said above, my comment wasn't inviting you guys to come out of the woodwork and post about why you support McCain, but the fact that you did only amplifies what I was really trying to say...why do comments like yours only show up when I specifically ask about it? Unprompted rhetoric in support of McCain, on the other hand, is almost always an Obama bashing fest, from his official campaign down to the blogs and the forums.

He is running on his energy plan. As I recall he tried spending a week on it recently and it was the reporters that kept asking him question about obamas lack of foreign affairs experience.


And if you can only see obama bashing all I can say is wow. Particularly as a p&n mod, you must have a script installed to ignore all post by jp, lemon, slingshot, and a half dozen or so others.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Dari
-snip-

But McCain hasn't, and up til now he's denounced that sort of thing.

I wonder if this *pre-emptive complaint* by the Obama campaign about McCain signals that the gloves will coming off?

I mean h3ll, if you're be getting the criticism for doing something, might as well go ahead and do it if you think you'll get a benefit. You're already getting criticism/blame, what do you have to lose?

Edit: The difference in the Obama campaign vs. here and in the primary is remarkable to me.

Fern

You're right McCain hasn't but Obama didn't single out McCain, he just implied his supporters - which many are infact racist. Of course McCain isn't racist and of course he would never endorse it either as that removes any chance of him ever getting any moderate voters.

but is McCain policing every single 527s that's playing on the racism and bigotry of voters? I doubt it...

Last time I checked McCain ripped his own party over the Rev. Wright ad. How is Obama policing the moveon.org crowd again?
None of this comes as a shock his campain has already turned Bill Clinton into a racist. I am sure they will try to do the same to McCain.

BTW both sides have racist that support them just not McCain.

That bolded part makes no sense. I think you're confused.

You are confused when some north carolina repulicans ran a ad attacking Obama by using Rev. Wright he ripped his own party. Just like he ripped that talk show host cunningham over using Obama's middle name. He pissed of plenty of republicans by doing so. Where is Obama standing up to his own crazy moveon.org types.

OK. Let me make this crystal clear for you: North Carolina Republican Party is affiliated with the national GOP. Moveon.org is not affiliated with the Democratic Party. Obama has no control over what they do.

The NC GOP is as affiliated with Mccain as Moveon is with Obama. Besides being filled with a large portion of the DNCs highest donors, let's count the number of national 527 attack ads already released. That would be 0 for Mccain and 1 for Obama, and it was released by moveon (gasp!)

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
And Dems haven't been aggressive in trying to say McCain is not a natural born citizen because his active duty parents had him at a military base outside of the US. They don't say he's old and that he's McSame as Bush.
Both sides are going to play dirty, just this time the supporters of Obama don't want to see the truth. They want their superstar to win.

1. No, I haven't seen news reports where (D)'s are claiming McCain is ineligible to be president because of his residency. If you have a credible source please link it.

2. McCain is old. In fact, he's very old. Given his age his health and mental capacity are damned relevant to his ability to hold the position of POTUS.

3. McCain has voted to support GWB's policies in the past and continues to support them so the comparisons to GWB are valid.

Originally posted by: loki8481

I have yet to hear ANYONE make a good argument for voting for McCain

he's the only one running with a history of bipartisanship and being willing to compromise?

You're right about the last part. This campaign has proven that McCain is willing to compromise his integrity. :laugh:

That's becuase he's learning from the master, your messiah. It's not often someone can constantly talk both sides of the issue and not get questioned about it. But doing so probably would just be divisive. And just like your messiah said, I though this campaign was going to be about debating the issues. Of course just ignore the minor fact that your messiah's campaign staff turned down most of the offered debates.


The funniest line I've heard about this so far is "and a note for the kiddies about history, Hamilton and Franklin weren't presidents".

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Dari
-snip-

But McCain hasn't, and up til now he's denounced that sort of thing.

I wonder if this *pre-emptive complaint* by the Obama campaign about McCain signals that the gloves will coming off?

I mean h3ll, if you're be getting the criticism for doing something, might as well go ahead and do it if you think you'll get a benefit. You're already getting criticism/blame, what do you have to lose?

Edit: The difference in the Obama campaign vs. here and in the primary is remarkable to me.

Fern

You're right McCain hasn't but Obama didn't single out McCain, he just implied his supporters - which many are infact racist. Of course McCain isn't racist and of course he would never endorse it either as that removes any chance of him ever getting any moderate voters.

but is McCain policing every single 527s that's playing on the racism and bigotry of voters? I doubt it...

Last time I checked McCain ripped his own party over the Rev. Wright ad. How is Obama policing the moveon.org crowd again?
None of this comes as a shock his campain has already turned Bill Clinton into a racist. I am sure they will try to do the same to McCain.

BTW both sides have racist that support them just not McCain.

That bolded part makes no sense. I think you're confused.

You are confused when some north carolina repulicans ran a ad attacking Obama by using Rev. Wright he ripped his own party. Just like he ripped that talk show host cunningham over using Obama's middle name. He pissed of plenty of republicans by doing so. Where is Obama standing up to his own crazy moveon.org types.

OK. Let me make this crystal clear for you: North Carolina Republican Party is affiliated with the national GOP. Moveon.org is not affiliated with the Democratic Party. Obama has no control over what they do.

The NC GOP is as affiliated with Mccain as Moveon is with Obama. Besides being filled with a large portion of the DNCs highest donors, let's count the number of national 527 attack ads already released. That would be 0 for Mccain and 1 for Obama, and it was released by moveon (gasp!)

Nice change of words, but that's not what I said and you are trying to interject your own interpretation so as to make your point, which isn't even true. Obama has zero influence over moveon.org like McCain has over the NC GOP via the national GOP. You're starting to come across as a liar on this forum.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
And Dems haven't been aggressive in trying to say McCain is not a natural born citizen because his active duty parents had him at a military base outside of the US. They don't say he's old and that he's McSame as Bush.
Both sides are going to play dirty, just this time the supporters of Obama don't want to see the truth. They want their superstar to win.

1. No, I haven't seen news reports where (D)'s are claiming McCain is ineligible to be president because of his residency. If you have a credible source please link it.

2. McCain is old. In fact, he's very old. Given his age his health and mental capacity are damned relevant to his ability to hold the position of POTUS.

3. McCain has voted to support GWB's policies in the past and continues to support them so the comparisons to GWB are valid.

Originally posted by: loki8481

I have yet to hear ANYONE make a good argument for voting for McCain

he's the only one running with a history of bipartisanship and being willing to compromise?

You're right about the last part. This campaign has proven that McCain is willing to compromise his integrity. :laugh:

That's becuase he's learning from the master, your messiah. It's not often someone can constantly talk both sides of the issue and not get questioned about it. But doing so probably would just be divisive. And just like your messiah said, I though this campaign was going to be about debating the issues. Of course just ignore the minor fact that your messiah's campaign staff turned down most of the offered debates.

The funniest line I've heard about this so far is "and a note for the kiddies about history, Hamilton and Franklin weren't presidents".

Messiah? Only you and your ilk refer to him as that. Why is that? Lemme guess - still bitter that Hillary snatched defeat from the jaws of victory?

It will be a pleasure watching McCain *try* to think on his feet in a debate against Obama.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Fern
As to the question of why McCain is just now complaining about this type remark by Obama - I haven't been to any rallys, and my recollection of his remarks I've seen on TV are that he says "they.....".

This time, he mentioned McCain by name; that is, accused him personally of this stuff.

?Nobody thinks that Bush and McCain have a real answer to the challenges we face. So what they?re going to try to do is make you scared of me,? Obama said. ?You know, ?he?s not patriotic enough, he?s got a funny name,? you know, ?he doesn?t look like all those other presidents on the dollar bills.??

If Obama hadn't done that before, I can see why McCain avoided mentioning it until now.

Fern

That's stretching it a bit, Fern. Do you have any evidence that this is the first time he's mentioned McCain?
And even if it is, how is the mention of exactly the same things that have been said about him playing the race card? Honest question that deserves an answer.

Don't think it's stretching it, and hopefully you watched the *Talking Heads* last night.

On Chris Matthews Hardball show this exact discussion came up with the panel of 4. They said the reason McCain responded THIS time was because it was the 1st time he had been personally accused of using racism against Obama. Obama's prior comments, while similar, used the term "Republicans" or "They"; McCain had not previously been singled out.

One of the panelist said he contacted the McCain campaign prior to coming on the air to get their statement and they confirmed that this is why McCain has chosen to respond now (1st time he has been singled out and accused of racism). The reporter also said the McCain campaign felt they needed to respond quickly and directly as a result of their experience in 2000 when McCain was accusued of fathering an illegitimate child.

I then watched Olbermann shows and he complained about McCain's timing too. He replayed all the old clips, although Olbermann didn't notice it or chose not to acknowlege it, all previous Obama remarks ommitted McCain's name and as stated in the earlier show he just said "Repubs" or "They".

Fern

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
-snip-
Politics today is at least as much about what the supporters of a candidate say as what the candidate says, especially since there is an extremely good apparatus for getting things out there without attaching your name to it.

I cannot agree with this, and think it's often unfair to candidates. Moreover, my perception in this forum when we discuss this sort of thing (dirty campaigning etc) many only wish to attribute to Obama those remarks he personally uttered, while the opponent is held responsible for eveyone eslse's comments. Unfair standard IMO.

But I think it's wrong to hold candidate responsible for supporters' remarks. Candidates can NOT co-ordinate with 527's etc. Also, given all the media outlets these days and the internet etc it's quite easy for many to get their opinions out there for public consumption. The campaigns have no control over these people.

If it comes from the candidate, or his/her campaign officials - fine - hold them accountable for it. But other sources - no, unless you can prove that they are a surrogate acting on orders from the campaign.

Fern

 

[CaptnKirk]

George Washington -who is actually on the $ 1 bill

Upon further review, I discovered that the portrait on the $1 bill is actually . . . Barbara Bush.

 

[IGBT]

..the liberals are extremely race sensitive. they would rather the obama win not because he's qualified but because he's black. from a liberal point of view the less qualified the better.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: IGBT
..the liberals are extremely race sensitive. they would rather the obama win not because he's qualified but because he's black. from a liberal point of view the less qualified the better.

Why are you such an ignorant troll? Seriously.

The actual truth is that liberals DON'T CARE that Obama is black. Maybe, instead of posting your usually one-liner trolls, you should educate yourself on what liberalism is all about. From the liberal point of view, the most important thing is to find the most qualified person, regardless of his skin color. And in this regard, it's the conservatives who are race-sensitive, or why else do they keep bringing up Obama's race, and why else are they running the least qualified stooge possible?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Fern
Don't think it's stretching it, and hopefully you watched the *Talking Heads* last night.

On Chris Matthews Hardball show this exact discussion came up with the panel of 4. They said the reason McCain responded THIS time was because it was the 1st time he had been personally accused of using racism against Obama. Obama's prior comments, while similar, used the term "Republicans" or "They"; McCain had not previously been singled out.

One of the panelist said he contacted the McCain campaign prior to coming on the air to get their statement and they confirmed that this is why McCain has chosen to respond now (1st time he has been singled out and accused of racism). The reporter also said the McCain campaign felt they needed to respond quickly and directly as a result of their experience in 2000 when McCain was accusued of fathering an illegitimate child.

I then watched Olbermann shows and he complained about McCain's timing too. He replayed all the old clips, although Olbermann didn't notice it or chose not to acknowlege it, all previous Obama remarks ommitted McCain's name and as stated in the earlier show he just said "Repubs" or "They".

Fern

I can't say whether this is true or not, and I do my best to avoid watching any of the talking heads.
However, you still didn't answer my question. How is what Obama said playing the race card? Particularly when what he said is exactly what is happening?

 

[piasabird]

Anyone that does not agree with a democrat is automatically a racist!

This is convenient.

Then Obama and his friends points out that McCain is too old. So are they purposely saying the Democratic party hates old people? Or, is it that the democrats just hate everyone.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Anyone that does not agree with a democrat is automatically a racist!

This is convenient.

Then Obama and his friends points out that McCain is too old. So are they purposely saying the Democratic party hates old people? Or, is it that the democrats just hate everyone.

And Republicans say that Obama is too black, but that's not racist!

And you're an extremist in a religious cult that wouldn't allow blacks to join until 1979, but that's not racist!

:roll:

Like IGBT, you never contribute anything here but ignorant extremist one-liner trolls. Maybe it's just YOU who hates everyone? Or how else could you possibly make such outrageously sweeping generalizations about tens of millions of people? Seriously.

 

[ayabe]

I didn't read this whole thread because it's pretty worthless.

#1. Obama has been using these lines for a long time, yet now it's an issue because McCain hasn't got a damn thing to run on. Just like the other 42 attacks this week.

#2. The Republican party has been playing racial politics for some time now, whether it's against McCain himself in 2000, or state GOP orgs printing Obama monkey t-shirts.

It's just more invented outrage that has no bearing on anything.

Maybe McCain should instead be spending time explaining to his base why he might consider raising taxes if elected.

McCain isn't going to win by accusing Obama of being an elitist, or Paris Hilton, or criticizing him because he mentioned that he's not white.

 

[CaptnKirk]

I can't help but think that in the minds of the average 'Joe Six-Pack' redneck American, they consider McCain to be thier Great White Hope.

Good God, these GOP voters are, in a word . . Dumb.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Fern
-snip-

I can't say whether this is true or not, and I do my best to avoid watching any of the talking heads.
However, you still didn't answer my question. How is what Obama said playing the race card? Particularly when what he said is exactly what is happening?

I do not know your definition of "playing the race card"; but accusing others, pre-emptively, of playing it against you fits my defintion easily. I.e., he unilaterally injected the subject race as a campaign issue.

I agree it's not new, it was all over the Dem Primary contest and he's alluded to it previously. But when he accussed McCain, by name, of attempting to make race an issue I believe McCain was right in reponding.

Fern

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Fern

But when he accussed McCain, by name, of attempting to make race an issue I believe McCain was right in reponding.

With an ad depicting him with blond bimbo fluff heads like Brittany Spears and Paris Hilton in much the same way it was used to depict Harold Ford with a white "Playboy bunny" when he ran for the Senate in Tennessee.

Like it or not, race is an issue simply because Obama isn't caucasian and doesn't look like it. When he said the Republicans would try to frighten Americans because he didn't look like them, they had already done exactly what he described, and they continue doing it, today.

It isn't just organized campaign workers. We have their bigoted minions right here on P&N. Jackasses who continue to include middle name, Hussein or as "BHO" in every reference to him, reinforcing the lie that he's a Muslim or somehow otherwise not a true "American."

Speaking that truth is NOT "playing the race card." Even more, it is NOT "playing the race card from the bottom of the deck," as pimped by McShame's campaign. It's simply confronting the issue that's already the 900 lb. gorilla in the room.

The fact is, there's no way through this election without discussing it. That's not the same as abusing it.

 

[SSSnail]

Every now and then, I'll pop into one of these Obamarama thread and just say "HI!".

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Fern
-snip-

I can't say whether this is true or not, and I do my best to avoid watching any of the talking heads.
However, you still didn't answer my question. How is what Obama said playing the race card? Particularly when what he said is exactly what is happening?

I do not know your definition of "playing the race card"; but accusing others, pre-emptively, of playing it against you fits my defintion easily. I.e., he unilaterally injected the subject race as a campaign issue.

I agree it's not new, it was all over the Dem Primary contest and he's alluded to it previously. But when he accussed McCain, by name, of attempting to make race an issue I believe McCain was right in reponding.

Fern

Except he never mentioned race and this wasn't preemptive anyway. Race has been an issue for Obama from the beginning. That is unless you really believe that any white candidate with a name like John Jacob Smith would ever have been accused of being a radical Muslim or of being unpatriotic because he didn't wear a flag pin (a 'custom' which never existed before this election) and so forth.
I mean... really. You're blaming the victim here. I just can't see how anyone can't see this without being dishonest to themselves.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Every now and then, I'll pop into one of these Obamarama thread and just say "HI!".

Pal, if Hillary couldn't beat Obama, then she could never have beaten McCain.

I'm totally sure that many San Antonio Spurs fans believe their team would have beaten the Celtics in the Finals easily, but unfortunately for them the Lakers beat the Spurs first.

 

[cubeless]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Every now and then, I'll pop into one of these Obamarama thread and just say "HI!".

Pal, if Hillary couldn't beat Obama, then she could never have beaten McCain.

I'm totally sure that some San Antonio Spurs fans believe their team would have beaten the Celtics easily, but unfortunately for them the Lakers beat the Spurs first.

but that's unfair... the lakers got too many points... there should be a windfall points tax to give some points to the poorer teams who would then be more equal...

cross thread pollination strikes again...

 

[SSSnail]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Every now and then, I'll pop into one of these Obamarama thread and just say "HI!".

Pal, if Hillary couldn't beat Obama, then she could never have beaten McCain.

I'm totally sure that many San Antonio Spurs fans believe their team would have beaten the Celtics in the Finals easily, but unfortunately for them the Lakers beat the Spurs first.

The Dems were afraid of alienating a group of people by pushing Obama, and in turn alienated another group of people.

Personally, I think Hillary would crush McCain and there won't be any race issues either. There maybe that nagging feminist issue, but it won't be a race issue.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: cubeless

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Every now and then, I'll pop into one of these Obamarama thread and just say "HI!".

Pal, if Hillary couldn't beat Obama, then she could never have beaten McCain.

I'm totally sure that some San Antonio Spurs fans believe their team would have beaten the Celtics easily, but unfortunately for them the Lakers beat the Spurs first.

but that's unfair... the lakers got too many points... there should be a windfall points tax to give some points to the poorer teams who would then be more equal...

cross thread pollination strikes again...

You must meaning cross thread trolling because 'fairness' and 'unfairness' are pretty much null concepts in my opinion, and if you searched, I am certain that you would never find a single instance where I used those words here in such context.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Fern

But when he accussed McCain, by name, of attempting to make race an issue I believe McCain was right in reponding.

With an ad depicting him with blond bimbo fluff heads like Brittany Spears and Paris Hilton in much the same way it was used to depict Harold Ford with a white "Playboy bunny" when he ran for the Senate in Tennessee.
-snip-

It seems pretty clear to me the reference is that Obama is "celebrity", no heft, no experience, all feel good fluff (or an empty suit as many Hillbots claimed) etc.

If comparing a black person to some white people is racist (which could not be done back in Jim Crow days or segradation - so I find this odd as it represents change), then comparing a black person to another black person is also racist (BC's remark that "Jesse Jackson carried the state, too"), WTH are we left with?

Those who have been claiming that any critism of Obama is gonna be called racist are starting to look prescient.

Fern

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Every now and then, I'll pop into one of these Obamarama thread and just say "HI!".

Pal, if Hillary couldn't beat Obama, then she could never have beaten McCain.

I'm totally sure that many San Antonio Spurs fans believe their team would have beaten the Celtics in the Finals easily, but unfortunately for them the Lakers beat the Spurs first.

The Dems were afraid of alienating a group of people by pushing Obama, and in turn alienated another group of people.

Personally, I think Hillary would crush McCain and there won't be any race issues either. There maybe that nagging feminist issue, but it won't be a race issue.

Ooh, what a pretty conspiracy theory. :roll:

I think you conveniently forgot that Hillary's negative ratings in the polls were the worst among any candidate running. Maybe there wouldn't have been a race issue, but the last name issue would be huge.