The problem with conservatism.

[busmaster11]

Lately, I've been trying to convince not only other people, but myself, that I am indeed a conservative thinker. I really struggle with this because I believe there is a lot of good reasons to be conservative, because its not a good idea to drift in the wind, to follow every contemporary trend, and to justify doing so at the expense of my deep moral beliefs. But I think I know why its so hard.

The definition of conservatism and liberalism change and constantly redefine each other. The conservatives were the Dixie Democrats in the 50's and 60's... And they were pro-segregation. In the 80's, conservatism meant fiscally responsible. Neocons are redefining that today. Do your views change and reallign with other parties or political views as these definitions change?

What defines your conservatism? Is it moral views? Each one of us has a different set of morals, and different levels of corruption to these sets of morals due to our heritage and upbringing. I believe this is a slippery slope, because invariably conservatism implies an adherance to traditional concepts and is often associated with an intolerance to progessive perspectives, such as equality.

Is it religious views? If you believe in the Bible word for word as I do, those beliefs are timeless.

This is why I struggle with conservatism. By the definition of conservatism, I believe my idea of whats right and wrong shouldn't change, no matter how politics or trends change, and for me its because they're founded on Biblical principles. I believe Jesus is loving and merciful, thats why I am adamant about being socially "liberal". I believe Jesus was born in a manger, and lowered Himself and allowed Himself to be abused and killed by man, thats why I believe in humility and am against the arrogance that defines this political regime and its unilateral international policies. I believe in peace and in putting things in God's hands instead of relying on my own abilities, thats why I support strict gun control.

Only in politics today would these views be considered liberal.

However, I believe in pro-life, because I strongly believe in being accountable for lives that God empowered us to create. Everything comes from God and belongs to God, and saying its "her body" is arrogant denial of that if you are a Christian. I also believe in censoring the immoral component in the media, and all the justifying of the sexual violent and ambulance chasing themes which tempt our kids - because they do not honor God.

These are known to be conservative views. Funny.

Either way, I consider my views to be conservative because I believe they are founded on a 2000 year old book which doesn't change. No matter how conservatism changes. Just don't expect me to vote for most republicans.

 

[maddogchen]

Why even bother labeling yourself either Liberal or Conservative? why do you want to join either group? Free yourself from these meaningless words which can't even begin to describe a person's views. These words are tossed around so much no one really knows their meanings anymore. Just ignore them and be yourself

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: maddogchen
Why even bother labeling yourself either Liberal or Conservative? why do you want to join either group? Free yourself from these meaningless words which can't even begin to describe a person's views. These words are tossed around so much no one really knows their meanings anymore. Just ignore them and be yourself

I believe there's something to be said for the definition of the "conservative" label.

But the main reason I tend to vote for Democrats is because I believe that despite everything else, they understand the concept of humility, something the Republicans seem to never do. It's a primary character trait IMO.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: busmaster11
Lately, I've been trying to convince not only other people, but myself, that I am indeed a conservative thinker.

If you were a true "conservative thinker," you wouldn't feel a need to convince others. Why do you feel a need to convince others regarding the way you think?

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx

Originally posted by: busmaster11
Lately, I've been trying to convince not only other people, but myself, that I am indeed a conservative thinker.

If you were a true "conservative thinker," you wouldn't feel a need to convince others. Why do you feel a need to convince others regarding the way you think?

That's easy. Because it's become fashionable and we're being told that it's important to do so. We hack at each other over silly sh1t while government types of all stripes rob us blind and treat us like retarded children.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx

Originally posted by: busmaster11
Lately, I've been trying to convince not only other people, but myself, that I am indeed a conservative thinker.

If you were a true "conservative thinker," you wouldn't feel a need to convince others. Why do you feel a need to convince others regarding the way you think?

That's easy. Because it's become fashionable and we're being told that it's important to do so. We hack at each other over silly sh1t while government types of all stripes rob us blind and treat us like retarded children.

You are being told to do so, not me...and we all know which side likes to be "fashionable.'

 

[Witling]

Hmmm. I actually thought that there generally accepted definitions for "conservatives" and "liberals." I offer what I remember.

"Conservatives" don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. We have a system that has worked (and in the case of the U.S., worked spectacularly well). They resist change unless the need is very clear.

"Liberals" are people who see the failings with and problems of the current system and want change.

History is littered with the bodies of stupid conservatives and stupid liberals. Two examples: Stupid conservatives resisted the right for women to vote. Stupid liberals brought us communism.

The moral of the story is to think about what your own experience is and try to pick something that might work. Heart is a miserable failure at this -- not to pick on an individual member.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx

Originally posted by: busmaster11
Lately, I've been trying to convince not only other people, but myself, that I am indeed a conservative thinker.

If you were a true "conservative thinker," you wouldn't feel a need to convince others. Why do you feel a need to convince others regarding the way you think?

If that is a well esablished trait specific to conservatism, I'm afraid I have a lot to learn...

 

[Corn]

I believe in peace and in putting things in God's hands instead of relying on my own abilities, thats why I support strict gun control.

I find that rational to be somewhat bizarre. Kind of like how some deny themselves and their children medical assistance, let god decide the outcome. Evidently we are all mindless sheep, the talents given to us should be ignored, everything should be decided for us. This sounds like a liberal concept to me.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Witling

The moral of the story is to think about what your own experience is and try to pick something that might work. Heart is a miserable failure at this -- not to pick on an individual member.

Not to pick on an individual member, but you will anyway, eh?

And don't you owe Dick Gephart royalties for saying "miserable failure"? Didn't he copyright that phrase?

Political labels are generalizations, and as such have their limitations. It's a mistake to get hung up on things like 'liberal' and 'conservative' - I just want to know where a candidate stands on the issues, and why.

 

[Corn]

If you were a true "conservative thinker," you wouldn't feel a need to convince others.

I personal belief is that it has something to do with my Moby thread.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx

Originally posted by: busmaster11
Lately, I've been trying to convince not only other people, but myself, that I am indeed a conservative thinker.

If you were a true "conservative thinker," you wouldn't feel a need to convince others. Why do you feel a need to convince others regarding the way you think?

That's easy. Because it's become fashionable and we're being told that it's important to do so. We hack at each other over silly sh1t while government types of all stripes rob us blind and treat us like retarded children.

You are being told to do so, not me...and we all know which side likes to be "fashionable.'

We're ALL being told to do so, every time a conservative\liberal luminary grinningly tells us that the othr side is stupid or intellectually backrupt or some other vile crap like that. If you think otherwise you just haven't noticed how big a pile of filth we're ALL standing in is, yet.

 

[Red Dawn]

The main problem with being a Conservative is that at times you find youself aligned with the likes of Coulter and heartsurgeon.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: Corn

I believe in peace and in putting things in God's hands instead of relying on my own abilities, thats why I support strict gun control.

I find that rational to be somewhat bizarre. Kind of like how some deny themselves and their children medical assistance, let god decide the outcome. Evidently we are all mindless sheep, the talents given to us should be ignored, everything should be decided for us. This sounds like a liberal concept to me.

I listed it under what we consider liberal.

Your conclusion is a gross misunderstanding of words taken out of context. Use your abilities to the greates extent you can. Eventually you will fail. Sooner or later, and over and over. Thats why you need God and an understanding of His intentions for us.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The main problem with being a Conservative is that at times you find youself aligned with the likes of Coulter and heartsurgeon.

NEVER.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: busmaster11
I believe in peace and in putting things in God's hands instead of relying on my own abilities, thats why I support strict gun control.

Let me get this straight. Because YOU look at the world through pussy-colored glasses YOU think everyone should be disarmed? And disarmed by the freaking STATE, with their "good" guns? That's insane.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The main problem with being a Conservative is that at times you find youself aligned with the likes of Coulter and heartsurgeon.

While I may not now much about HS, I see what you mean with Coulter. Regardless, wouldn't you like to give her a good poke though?

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

If that is a well esablished trait specific to conservatism, I'm afraid I have a lot to learn...

Hegel once said, "What is well-known is not necessarily known merely because it is well-known." Think about that for awhile.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: busmaster11
I believe in peace and in putting things in God's hands instead of relying on my own abilities, thats why I support strict gun control.

Let me get this straight. Because YOU look at the world through pussy-colored glasses YOU think everyone should be disarmed? And disarmed by the freaking STATE, with their "good" guns? That's insane.

Easy Cowboy, he is just another one those aligned with the Bush Regime that wants to disarm the Country so they can move forward with their Communist Agenda. Heil Bush

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The main problem with being a Conservative is that at times you find youself aligned with the likes of Coulter and heartsurgeon.

Ahhahahaa

Edit: Or pity those for Freedom from "Labels" and be aligned with me. :Q

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx

Originally posted by: busmaster11

If that is a well esablished trait specific to conservatism, I'm afraid I have a lot to learn...

Hegel once said, "What is well-known is not necessarily known merely because it is well-known." Think about that for awhile.

It makes a lot of sense to me. But when you're inundated with so many perspectives and so many social views and so much media influence, it easily clouds the mind.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: busmaster11
I believe in peace and in putting things in God's hands instead of relying on my own abilities, thats why I support strict gun control.

Let me get this straight. Because YOU look at the world through pussy-colored glasses YOU think everyone should be disarmed? And disarmed by the freaking STATE, with their "good" guns? That's insane.

Ditto what HardWarrior said. I believe in peace as well, but I also believe in reality. Busmaster11, if you are a Christian, then you believe in the fallen nature of Man, and existance of sin, right? So if criminals are always going to exist, don't we need some mechanism to protect ourselves from them?

See my sig for an interesting view of gun control.

 

[glugglug]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

In the 80's, conservatism meant fiscally responsible.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA!!!! ROFLMAO! Tell me you're not trying to say Reagonomics is fiscally responsible!

Although..... maybe conservatism would be.... by the true definition, the Republicans haven't been conservative for a long time.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: busmaster11
I believe in peace and in putting things in God's hands instead of relying on my own abilities, thats why I support strict gun control.

Let me get this straight. Because YOU look at the world through pussy-colored glasses YOU think everyone should be disarmed? And disarmed by the freaking STATE, with their "good" guns? That's insane.

Easy Cowboy, he is just another one those aligned with the Bush Regime that wants to disarm the Country so they can move forward with their Communist Agenda. Heil Bush

Oh, well in THAT case, HEIL BUSH!

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: busmaster11
I believe in peace and in putting things in God's hands instead of relying on my own abilities, thats why I support strict gun control.

Let me get this straight. Because YOU look at the world through pussy-colored glasses YOU think everyone should be disarmed? And disarmed by the freaking STATE, with their "good" guns? That's insane.

Ditto what HardWarrior said. I believe in peace as well, but I also believe in reality. Busmaster11, if you are a Christian, then you believe in the fallen nature of Man, and existance of sin, right? So if criminals are always going to exist, don't we need some mechanism to protect ourselves from them?

See my sig for an interesting view of gun control.

God calls on us to rely on Him. Of course, that can be interpretted in different ways.

I believe if people proven to be law-abiding citizens want to keep a handgun in their homes thats fine. Any more than that is not, IMO.