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The Playstation 2 Launch, will it blow our high power PC away?

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i think superbaby summed it up quite nicely.

I know another person who has a asian PS2, same sorta deal. I see him playing Counter Strike more than the games he has for PS2

interesting.

🙂
 
One thing users like LXi and others are missing, is consoles are trying to turn themselves into PC's, and in my eye's, this is a bad thing. But, first I'll explain the screw ups they've had so far.

DC, yes, let's browse the internet, I'll go get raped by the ISP that they're forcing me to use. Now, let's insert the internet browsing disc, ok, it's in. Hey this looks like crap, oh well, I'll try to use it. *Sounds of barfing* Well, that was awful, I feel like playing games now. Wait, I have to turn everything off, find the game, and then boot it off the cd. And then there was the crappy roll out of multi-player support for DC games, but I don't know enough info about that to diss it.

As far as I can tell so far, PS2 will be plagued by the same major problem, no hard drive.

And the x-box, well it's the perfect console except for what I'm about to explain.

Excluding the Indrema console line, ALL of these consoles will be unupgradable except for things like modems. ALL of them will be crushing the small developer that the PC goes to great lengths to support.

Here's a future scenerio if consoles do accomplish what they want to, complete domination of computer industries. Here's little joe's software company, with a great game, but they can't get into the console business. And all game companies KNOW the big money's in the consoles, right? Little joe's software company goes bye bye from lack of good support. Now, pc scenerio, Little joe's company puts a trial version of their game out, everyone likes it, either Joe's company goes to a producer and asks them to produce the full version, or some monopolistic company like MS comes and buys them up, but either way, the little company benefits, and we benefit from a great game that has fresh ideas.

And that's my basic grudge against the console, the most overlooked fact in this thread is that consoles ARE trying to become pc's, and if they succeed, the ones not like Indrema (which looks like it's not going to succeed from lack of publicity), and the pc slowly dies out because of a lack of users, then we're stuck dead in the water.

We won't be seeing the new games, fresh ideas, we won't be fidgeting in our computers, and we'll be getting forcefed mainstream c-r-a-p.
 
RayXmen:


<<Wow...you guys still on this subject?
LXI have you heard of bleem? Computers have the power to play any game that is run on any console.>>

Dude, I HAVE Bleem!, and it doesnt play half the sh1t I have properly.


<<You know what...Computers made PS2 games...people programmed them on computers. Computers are limited in the variety of games you say? PS2 has great selection of games you say? That is not the situation right now is it? Even if PS2 did have more games...PC can play those games too.>>

I never said the computer is limited in games, I just pesonally, do not prefer computer games. But of course, I'd always like to run things on my computer. I had a choice between buying the PSX version and PC version of the FF7/FF8 game, and I chose PC. However, due to my preference, not every console game I like is ported to the PC, and in order to enjoy them, I have to have a console.


<<PS2 is not a computer you say, apples and oranges? Then why is the orange keep trying to be like the apple? The ps2 is internet capable now, has a thing called a MODEM, has RAMBUS ram, and all parts you find in that thing are going to be on most computers.>>

The oranges never tried to be like apples, it's that they HAVE TO have those hardware in order tof function correctly. There is still a great deal of difference between the two. Say, the PS2 doesnt have a hard drive, it doesnt have PCI slots, it doesnt have a video card or sound card, you can't install Windows on them, they're NOT PCs. Even though they tried to be like one or whatever, their purpose is ONLY gaming, gaming on your TV screen, nothing to interfere with the PC.


<<Enough with this debate...its pointless. At least one thing is for sure. PS2 will have very little effect on the computer market...if any effect at all.>>

Did Sony ever claimed that PS2 will be a PC killer? Did anyone actually hoping for one? I didnt think so man. They're completely two different markets and will least likely to have an effect on the other market.



 
rcpilot: Your idea is interesting, but no way in hell these little consoles will &quot;take over&quot; the PC industry because of &quot;the lack of users&quot;. The consoles might be upgradable and all, but that still doesnt do a thing to PCs. Very imaginery, but impossible.
 
Now, MS's motivation is just to make money and try to dominate another industry (fat chance big boy), but the other console companys (Sony, Sega, Nintendo) intend on taking over the home user market by marketing consoles that can do everything a pc can do, but lose the spirit of the pc that I happen to like (and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone). Via is trying to make a console pc I guess I'll call it. A sub $300 pc that will look and hook up and act like a console, but almost completely pc and not intended for true gaming. So I don't know what exactly Via's intending to accomplish. But most console company's definitely intend to hit the pc where it hurts, and capture most of the people with selling points such as DVD players, crappy internet connect, and ease of use. (Pretty good on the outside, kind of like communism.) But, they'll be sacrificing the ability to upgrade at prices less than $300 a year, (keep the os, maybe upgrade the cpu, little hunk a ram).
But, the normal user doesn't give a flying f**k, and they'll leap up and buy the console, and us computer gamers are not the only people that buy computer games, actually a very small percentage. People stop buying computers, developer support starts dwindling again, and where up s**t creek without a paddle.
 
LXi your missing my point. Exclusives wins the console race. Square and Konami like all other third parties aren't exclusive to Sony or any other console maker for that matter. Metal Gear and the Final Fantasy series made an appearance on the pc. Their goal is to sell as many games as possible while minimizing development cost. Wanna know why Metal Gear or Final Fantasy never made it to the N64? It's because of high development costs and prices of the cartridge format. This time around the playing field is even or slightly in favor of Microsoft and Nintendo. Their consoles are easier to develop for which means shorter development times. Sony and Microsoft (to a lesser extent) are depending on third parties to drive system sales but how will this happen if all third party games make a release on each console. This is where Nintendo is striving as they are snatching up second parties faster than a 1 GHz Athlon.
 


<< but the other console companys (Sony, Sega, Nintendo) intend on taking over the home user market by marketing consoles that can do everything a pc can do >>



Wrong. Nintendo has gone out of their way to make it clear that they are a gaming company, period. The Gamecube is made to play games, and that is it.
 
Ok, sorry about that, I shouldn't of included the Gamecube in there because I don't know enough about it. And my underlying point is how much it would suck if consoles took over the video entertainment market by raping the casual user for all they're worth.
 
Man I think some of you are in bed with Sony. geez.

Anyway, the computer eats too much of my time. No consoles for me.
 


<< DC, yes, let's browse the internet, I'll go get raped by the ISP that they're forcing me to use >>



Well you can use any ISP with the Dreamcast ya know, even the free ones.



<< And then there was the crappy roll out of multi-player support for DC games, but I don't know enough info about that to diss it >>



Well if your talkin about the online multiplayer games then yes there is only one out there right now that takes advantage of it and thats NFL2K1, but then again the network has only been active since the release of NFL2K1 and from what I've heard its been pretty much a lag free experience for most people.
 
There are actually two online games, NFL2K1 and ChuChu Rocket. Though NFL2K1 is the only one worth mentioning really 🙂
 
Xbox is just a paper launch product like Intel.. that is why it is full of sh*t..

look.. the PS2 is trying to be a full Home Entertainment system.. not a PC...

RayXmen:
The PC cannot play most console games.. unless there is a emulation program.. you can't plug a N64 in a PCI card and it'll run just like that.. and why oh why are there no DC nor PS2 emulators?... it's because the specs of those systems surpass ANY video card that we have on the market now.. and it's a bitch to program a emulator that can handle the power of the DC AND the PS2..

Look RayXmen.. what i'm trying to say is.... CONSOLES and PCs have their own purpose to the market... Consoles are gaming machines... PCs are mainly application used and can play games.. so what if Rambus and a modem are in the PS2.. a seed is in both apples and oranges.. right? 😉 you misread my apples and oranges...

each has their own market.. that is final... you can't compare the two since they are on different sides of the fence... the goal of the PS2 is to blend into the Home Theatre/Entertainment factor of the daily lives of people.. not to take over the PC


 
Xbox is just a paper launch product like Intel.. that is why it is full of sh*t..

That's the best you can do?

I guess thats why Microsoft invested in WD hard drives for the X-box. Or spent 2 Million dollars on the NV25. Or sent out hundereds of developer kits to Konami and other developers. And Konami, Nvidia, Intel, Microsoft and other companies are spending million of dollars on research for the x-box because they're stupid right? No offence, but your answer didn't really explain why the X-box sucked.

Edited in respect to toxin.
 
ok.. maybe i'll elaborate..

all i find so far about the Xbox.. it's really all hype from the marketing juggernaut that we know as M$... spec change every so often, we are not even sure if the Intel 733 Mhz is the final chip that they will put in the XBox.. we all know that it started out as a 600Mhz...

NV25.. it looks like promising... but we have not really even seen a glimpse of the NV20 yet.. and news about them integrating sound on it.. well.. it's really still up in the air about the final specs of the XBox.

I don't doubt the fact that many gaming companies are interested in the Xbox.. only because it's very easy to make games for DirectX8 or something like that to my knowledge using a chopped down win2k (which we SHOULD get copies of... not the bloated Win2k we see now)...

well.. i'll give it a few more months and see what will happen to the final specs for the XBox is... then maybe i'll change my opinion.. but for now.. it's nothing to be drooled about..

the Gamecube, however, is starting to look like a nice machine.. but for some reason, i dunno if it'll grab all the people back that it lost out to Sony..

anyways..

hey.. check out this accessory for PS2
PS2 Cool Accesories
 
all i find so far about the Xbox.. it's really all hype from the marketing juggernaut that we know as M$... spec change every so often, we are not even sure if the Intel 733 Mhz is the final chip that they will put in the XBox.. we all know that it started out as a 600Mhz...

I'd have to agree with this, but processor speed is the only thing we're not sure about (Maybe the audio too, but I don't care about that).

Come to think of it, We know more about X-box specs then game cube specs. I won't turn to Nintendo again, but it'll be an interesting battle.

I could care less Microsoft or AMD design the x-box. If it's good, then I'll bye it. 🙂
 


<< Come to think of it, We know more about X-box specs then game cube specs. I won't turn to Nintendo again, but it'll be an interesting battle. >>

All i know is that the Xbox puts out something like 100 million fully lit and transformed polygons sustained to Gamecubes supposed 9.

Nothing more to say about the Video power, its obvious who wins.

The only place the Gamecube might keep up is in processor performance, i do not know how poweful the 400mhz IBM GEKKO (copper) chip is.
 
Official Name NINTENDO GAMECUBE
MPU(&quot;Microprocessor Unit&quot😉* IBM Power PC &quot;Gekko&quot;
Manufacturing Process 0.18 microns Copper Wire Technology
Clock Frequency 405 MHz
CPU Capacity 925 Dmips (Dhrystone 2.1)
Internal Data Precision 32bit Integer &amp; 64bit Floating-point
External Bus Bandwidth 1.6GB/second(Peak)
External Bus Bandwidth 1.6GB/second(Peak) (32bit address, 64bit data bus 202.5MHz)
Internal Cache L1: Instruction 32KB, Data 32KB (8 way) L2: 256KB (2 way)
Internal Cache L1: Instruction 32KB, Data 32KB (8 way) L2: 256KB (2 way)

System LSI &quot;Flipper&quot;
Manufacturing Process 0.18 microns NEC Embedded DRAM Process
Clock Frequency 202.5MHz
Embedded Frame Buffer Approx. 2MB
Embedded Frame Buffer Approx. 2MB Sustainable Latency : 5ns (1T-SRAM)
Embedded Texture Cache Approx. 1MB Sustainable Latency : 5ns (1T-SRAM)
Texture Read Bandwidth 12.8GB/second (Peak)
Main Memory Bandwidth 3.2GB/second (Peak)
Color, Z Buffer Each is 24bits
Image Processing Function Fog, Subpixel Anti-aliasing, HW Light x8, Alpha Blending,
Virtual Texture Design, Multi-texture Mapping/Bump/Environment Mapping, MIPMAP,
Bilinear Filtering, Real-time Texture Decompression (S3TC), etc.
Other Real-time Decompression of Display List, HW Motion Compensation Capability


*The Gekko MPU integrates the power PC CPU into a custom, game-centric chip.

(The following sound related functions are all incorporated into the System LSI)


Sound Processor Special 16bit DSP
Instruction Memory 8KB RAM + 8KB ROM
Instruction Memory 8KB RAM + 8KB ROM
Data Memory 8KB RAM + 4KB ROM
Clock Frequency 101.25 MHz
Maximum Number of
Simultaneously
Produced Sounds ADPCM: 64ch
Sampling Frequency 48KHz
System Floating-point
Arithmetic Capability 13.0GFLOPS (Peak) (MPU, Geometry Engine, HW Lighting Total)
Actual Display Capability 6 million to 12 million polygons/second
Actual Display Capability 6 million to 12 million polygons/second
(Display capability assuming actual game with complexity model, texture, etc.)
System Main Memory 24MB Sustainable Latency : 10ns or lower (1T-SRAM)
A-Memory 16MB (100MHz DRAM)
Disc Drive CAV (Constant Angular Velocity) System
Disc Drive CAV (Constant Angular Velocity) System
Average Access Time Data Transfer Speed 16Mbps to 25Mbps 128ms
Media 8cm NINTENDO GAMECUBE Disc based on Matsushita's Optical Disc Technology Approx. 1.5GB Capacity
Input/Output Controller Port x4
Digicard Slot x2
Analog AV Output x1
Digital AV Output x1
High-Speed Serial Port x2
High-speed Parallel Port x1
Power Supply AC Adapter DC12V x 3.5A
Main Unit Dimensions 150mm(W) x 110mm(H) x 161mm(D)


So, what's so unknown about Gamecube? Aside from the games and developers that is. (which Nintendo is keeping very strictly under wraps until E3)

EDIT: hrmm, can't seem to get the nice neat format I had it in to show up...
 
About someone's DC and PS2 are too fast to emulate comment... The main reason we can't emulate them well, is the fact that it's very hard to emulate something that's not a pc. You watch OS's be emulated, and that's fast, because they're all calling the same hardware, just under different names. With a console, every little damn thing has been changed.
 
<<About someone's DC and PS2 are too fast to emulate comment... The main reason we can't emulate them well, is the fact that it's very hard to emulate something that's not a pc.>>

Wonder why someone insist calling these consoles PCs.



<<You watch OS's be emulated, and that's fast, because they're all calling the same hardware, just under different names. With a console, every little damn thing has been changed.>>

Well stated. PCs are not suited for emulating consoles, I've tried a variety of emulators and none of were able to match the quality and compatibility of the respective original console.

 
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