The Perception Gap

[dank69]

This is a study done to determine why there is the perception of extreme partisanship.

https://perceptiongap.us/

Article that sums the study up: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...ahoo&utm_campaign=yahoo-non-hosted&yptr=yahoo

Considering I tend to look at liberals/conservatives ; democrats/conservatives as an outdated divisive institution as well as what I see as extreme partisanship flourishing, I found this study to be interesting. You can take the quiz yourself and it rates your perception of the other 'side'.

I am an independant and turns out I understand how republicans think way more than I understand democrats....this actually explains a few things, but also is in part because many democrats have slid further left than in the past.

One interesting excerpt from this study is their take on education:

Education Doesn’t Help, Either

Education is intended to make us better informed about the world, so we’d expect that the more educated you become, the more you understand what other Americans think. In fact, the more educated a person is, the worse their Perception Gap – with one critical exception. This trend only holds true for Democrats, not Republicans. In other words, while Republicans’ misperceptions of Democrats do not improve with higher levels of education, Democrats’ understanding of Republicans actually gets worse with every additional degree they earn. This effect is so strong that Democrats without a high school diploma are three times more accurate than those with a postgraduate degree.


Basically what it shows is that there isn't as much 'extremism' out there as everyone thinks. I can't say if it's true or not, because it sure seems like there's a lot more extremism out there, but maybe that's a skew from this forum. Most everyone else I know is a conservative so that also would explain why I apparently understand their views better (although usually don't agree with them).

If the people making the survey think the left is way more left than you think it is, then I will not be contributing a single click to it.

That said, did they actually tell you that is what you got wrong, or is that your own feeble interpretation?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

+26 percent Dem
-24 percent Rep.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

He certainly talks like the electoral college takes a majority.

I went with Trump 100% flawed Absolute freedom? There is and can never be such a thing except in a global population of one. Laws are inherently a "loss of freedom" in the context the one guy presents. You can't be shot without repercussions, your land can't become a radioactive dumping ground because someone's "freedom" is denied.

No one can seriously argue that position except in a wholly trivial case. Well, that would be the hope.

 

[fskimospy]

If there is not as much extremism out there as everyone thinks then the next question would be why elected republicans have become so incredibly ideologically extreme over the last 40 years while democrats have gone only slightly left, as shown by the divergence in first dimension DW-NOMINATE scores.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Same here.

Spoiler

The issue for me is I was basing my answers on how republicans in power and on forums respond to those issues. Not necessarily on how generic citizens who are republicans would answer a survey.

Not sure if this perception check is useful or not.

That's a real issue. "Republicans are evil", meaning that they all want to do harm isn't credible as far as I am concerned, but IMO there are no "average" Republicans. I divide them into several groups which probably can be divided much further. They would be "Joe Republican" someone who votes for Reps as an identity. To be clear this applies to Dems, but you know this as well. Anyway, there are the die hards who would vote for Republicans because Dems are at best questionable, those dedicated to what they believe their party represents, those who know realities but support them, Trumpettes who are a category until themselves and as I said more.

At the DC levels parties own their members. They may gripe and individuals occasionally break but rarely is the leadership overruled. With Republicans the loyalty is even greater and leaders more imperious. That is the fault of the Founders and Washington himself felt the destructive nature of partisans over the nation's needs. Add the rules of Congress which effectively represent only a fraction of the people every election and this is what we get.

I suppose the fish rots from the head down is apt especially with this generation's Republicans and partisans not willing to have it any other way, at least not in reality.

 

[ImpulsE69]

If the people making the survey think the left is way more left than you think it is, then I will not be contributing a single click to it.

That said, did they actually tell you that is what you got wrong, or is that your own feeble interpretation?

No, it actually shows neither side is as far out there idea wise as many peoples perception makes it. While I could not tell you if this thing is accurate or biased overall, it is very telling when comments like this pop up immediately because since we already know where you stand from other threads, and you are unwilling to even look based on your own feelings of what it might be, I would say they are at least onto something. There's a whole write up in there that explains the point of it, and what the goal is. Not a jab, just interesting.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

If there is not as much extremism out there as everyone thinks then the next question would be why elected republicans have become so incredibly ideologically extreme over the last 40 years while democrats have gone only slightly left, as shown by the divergence in first dimension DW-NOMINATE scores.

Where is the extremism might be a good question to ask. Note "elected Republicans", a very proper classification. The truth is that those who command the government especially these Republicans are part and parcel of the true power, not the citizens. As financial and other interests are one in the same with people like Mitch, there cannot be opposition within the party. That means Republicans and I mean those who aren't on the inside to gain, have no real choice but to go to the left and from their general perspective "slightly left" is far more than that. Again this is perception and ours isn't important to anyone but those who see as we do. Consequently, it's either vote firmly against their core principles even if they aren't, avoid the process of voting or pulling the big R lever or push whatever button. Representative Democracy failed long ago with the collapse of the dream of people over party. It's just that now "the system that worked for hundreds of years" is shown to be a necessary illusion, a drug of patriotic and ideologic morphia.

 

[ImpulsE69]

If we don`t vote Trump out nothing will exist as we know it, after Trump......

This poll has nothing to do with Trump or voting him in or out per se and is not trying to get you to 'vote republican'.

 

[dank69]

No, it actually shows neither side is as far out there idea wise as many peoples perception makes it. While I could not tell you if this thing is accurate or biased overall, it is very telling when comments like this pop up immediately because since we already know where you stand from other threads, and you are unwilling to even look based on your own feelings of what it might be, I would say they are at least onto something. There's a whole write up in there that explains the point of it, and what the goal is. Not a jab, just interesting.

Question 6: America should be a socialist country (agree/disagree?)

What kind of stupid question is that? It is literally aimed at people that don't understand that most countries are a mix of capitalism and socialism. Please tell me how I should answer this question.

 

[Commodus]

^ Not at all true. Trump is just a correction to the wrong course obama sailed. Trump will leave office, and we'll be better for him being president, despite his inability to be president. Ironic.

Wake up to the message that society sent. We elected someone who had no business being president, just to stop the nonsense leftist crap.

That right there, tells you society didn't want things to exist as they were, that drastic measures had to happen.

Only a severe flaw in government would cause Trump to be elected. Think about that. Government is not supposed to lead a free society, it's supposed to serve that society.

The moment that government imposes, that's the opposite of freedom.

There is no democrat that can serve the people because their polarized position is to force things on the people. It is a bit crazy, that this was their reaction to go so far left.

It is also crazy the republicans went so far right but now I am over-generalizing, but in the end, forcing things upon society is the opposite of freedom. You can't have it both ways.

The biggest mistake or stereotype might be to assume that if someone prefers either political party, that this automatically means they agree with the most extreme sentiments within that party. That is rarely the case, the average citizen understands that it's a give and take between two parties and wishes they weren't so divided.

It's a bit of a sick joke when your government goes to war against itself.

This is based on such an inherently false premise it's ridiculous.

To start, you're willfully ignoring the popular vote. Most American voters did not want Trump in 2016, and they certainly don't now. And then there's the election rigging -- may I remind you that courts have overturned multiple Republican gerrymandering practices meant to disenfranchise Democrat voters? Trump won at least partly because he clinched states that, in fair elections, he would have lost.

That there was a huge shift toward Democrats in 2018 should be an indication that people have already become disillusioned with the Republicans.

And then there's your fluff about "nonsense leftist crap." Like what, exactly? Daring to suggest that health care should be accessible to more people? Accepting scientific reality and factoring human-made climate change into legislation? Recognizing that net neutrality is the key to both fairness and competition on the internet? Treating women, LGBT people and cultural minorities as equals deserving of rights and dignity? Yeah, those are all such horrible concepts.

The fact is that many people were just fine with the left, but they were both denied a fair vote and saddled with a candidate who would have likely been fine in office, but definitely wasn't ideal. And let's face it, some of the classic flaws of American politics came up. Trump exploited the vulnerability of some people to superficial claims -- the ones who confuse personality for policy, and believe whoever makes the grandest promises rather than the ones with the wisest and more achievable ideas.

 

[fskimospy]

Where is the extremism might be a good question to ask. Note "elected Republicans", a very proper classification. The truth is that those who command the government especially these Republicans are part and parcel of the true power, not the citizens. As financial and other interests are one in the same with people like Mitch, there cannot be opposition within the party. That means Republicans and I mean those who aren't on the inside to gain, have no real choice but to go to the left and from their general perspective "slightly left" is far more than that. Again this is perception and ours isn't important to anyone but those who see as we do. Consequently, it's either vote firmly against their core principles even if they aren't, avoid the process of voting or pulling the big R lever or push whatever button. Representative Democracy failed long ago with the collapse of the dream of people over party. It's just that now "the system that worked for hundreds of years" is shown to be a necessary illusion, a drug of patriotic and ideologic morphia.

But it’s not like these Republican voters have no say in what candidates are run. If anything the old guard of Republican elites has been decimated by a Republican primary electorate that demands ever more extreme candidates.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Question 6: America should be a socialist country (agree/disagree?)

What kind of stupid question is that? It is literally aimed at people that don't understand that most countries are a mix of capitalism and socialism. Please tell me how I should answer this question.

You answer how many percent of whoever it is referencing (dems or repubs) you think want a socialist country - that is the distinction - is it asking about republicans or democrats? It doesn't want to know if 'you' want it.

 

[ImpulsE69]

But it’s not like these Republican voters have no say in what candidates are run. If anything the old guard of Republican elites has been decimated by a Republican primary electorate that demands ever more extreme candidates.

I don't know about that. Were dems lazy? I see your point if we look at it about Trump - that sure felt like 'the people picked him as a candidate', but Hillary? I didn't know anyone who wanted her as president so how did she become a candidate?

 

[dank69]

You answer how many percent of whoever it is referencing (dems or repubs) you think want a socialist country - that is the distinction - is it asking about republicans or democrats?

No, because I said I am a Democrat it is asking my opinion. For the record, my perception gap for Republicans was 2%.

I answered no to that question because I do not want the US to be a socialist country. I do think we need more socialism but that wouldn't make us a "socialist country" the way Americans have been conditioned to think.

 

[ImpulsE69]

No, because I said I am a Democrat it is asking my opinion. For the record, my perception gap for Republicans was 2%.

I answered no to that question because I do not want the US to be a socialist country. I do think we need more socialism but that wouldn't make us a "socialist country" the way Americans have been conditioned to think.

I don't remember where it fell so I'd have to try again to see, but it isn't what YOU want, it's what you think others want.

Things like this though I could see skew it, it is a bit confusing at times.

 

[dank69]

I don't remember where it fell so I'd have to try again to see, but it isn't what YOU want, it's what you think others want.

Things like this though I could see skew it, it is a bit confusing at times.

It specifically asked me what I want. You got to check your perception of both parties because you started by saying you are an independent.

 

[fskimospy]

I don't know about that. Were dems lazy? I see your point if we look at it about Trump - that sure felt like 'the people picked him as a candidate', but Hillary? I didn't know anyone who wanted her as president so how did she become a candidate?

I’ve heard lots of people say this and I think it’s probably reflective of the bubbles we live in. Clinton was wanted as president by lots of people, they were just primarily lower class black and Hispanic people who are represented a lot less in the news and on Twitter. So sure it SEEMED like nobody wanted Clinton but in reality lots of people did. She was extremely popular in the Democratic Party!

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/04/19/us/elections/new-york-city-democratic-primary-results.html

Regardless, that's just one election. If you look at the trend in primaries overall, especially on the Republican side it has been voters purging more moderate candidates in favor of extremists. Sure the voters might SAY they aren't extreme but their actions sure seem to indicate otherwise.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

That survey didn't make any sense to me.

For Democrats I got a gap of 35%, for Republicans I got a gap of 0%.

The first question was, Democrats believe police are bad people. I put that 10% of Democrats think that, it said I had a huge gap in that question. Are they saying a lot of Democrats think police are bad?

yea, this one threw me too and I was way off. They are saying that in 'reality' over 50% of democrats think police are bad people. Then when I thought about it more, it kind of made some sense. Conservatives don't have issues with police for the most part, but minorities do, and I think more minorities are democrats than republicans (think along the lines of cops shooting blacks etc). That's probably only a part of it, but things like this might explain it.

However, the %'s are only in the scope of who was surveyed and who's answered the questions.

I was kinda questioning this type of stuff too - The one that really threw me off was the Open Borders question.

I thought, surely that's something only the stupid Twitter twat minority believe right? I put ~10% or so and it says I have a gap of ~60%. Are you telling me that 70% of all democrats believe that we should let anyone freely cross the border at anytime with no checks, no immigration process, etc?

 

[ImpulsE69]

It specifically asked me what I want. You got to check your perception of both parties because you started by saying you are an independent.

Ah good point.

 

[dank69]

I’ve heard lots of people say this and I think it’s probably reflective of the bubbles we live in. Clinton was wanted as president by lots of people, they were just primarily lower class black and Hispanic people who are represented a lot less in the news and on Twitter. So sure it SEEMED like nobody wanted Clinton but in reality lots of people did. She was extremely popular in the Democratic Party!

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/04/19/us/elections/new-york-city-democratic-primary-results.html

Regardless, that's just one election. If you look at the trend in primaries overall, especially on the Republican side it has been voters purging more moderate candidates in favor of extremists. Sure the voters might SAY they aren't extreme but their actions sure seem to indicate otherwise.

Yeah nobody thinks they are an extremist. That's why I got 2% gap. I answered how I think Republicans would answer, not how I perceive their actions.

 

[dank69]

I was kinda questioning this type of stuff too - The one that really threw me off was the Open Borders question.

I thought, surely that's something only the stupid Twitter twat minority believe right? I put ~10% or so and it says I have a gap of ~60%. Are you telling me that 70% of all democrats believe that we should let anyone freely cross the border at anytime with no checks, no immigration process, etc?

Yeah I have a hard time believing it as well, but then I remember that people are fucking stupid and the stupid is amplified when people are online.

 

[fskimospy]

Yeah I have a hard time believing it as well, but then I remember that people are fucking stupid and the stupid is amplified when people are online.

Actual scientific polling shows Democrats are nowhere near 70% in favor of open borders. It's more like 70% against open borders.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

26% democrat, -17% republican. Apparently I thought far more highly of Republicans than is reality (almost all were negative values, except for the the first).
And what in the shit is up with the very first question? How can like 75% of 'democrats' think that most police are bad people? I was fairly close on most of them.

Come to think of it, I'm wondering if there's something up with the quiz... the results page lists the democratic ones as almost all 'showing % disagree', I wonder if those percentages are supposed to be in opposition of the question, so how many democrats would disagree with x statement.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

But it’s not like these Republican voters have no say in what candidates are run. If anything the old guard of Republican elites has been decimated by a Republican primary electorate that demands ever more extreme candidates.

I think you are mistaken at least at the national level. The Party determines who gets funding, who gets approved and the financial powers who are one with the party control who is the most known, gets greater air time and in the end there's "some guy" who has no chance in hell of winning (that too is controlled) and approved by the powers that be. That last part is distinctly NOT the citizen. Any horse you like, said Hobson.

The only time this has failed in my long memory is Trump and that was only because he managed to infect the Republicans who weakened themselves by their ridiculous attacks on Obama, which caused a reflexive opposite in policy and ethics and morality by the leadership who enforced it on the rank and file in DC.

No, the manipulation is almost perfect and invulnerable and partisans are completely happy when it's their side who does it for "the greater good" of course.

There are two potential solutions. First is that partisans hold themselves to a higher standard of ethical behavior than anyone else or revolution. The second is IMO more likely of the two.

 

[dank69]

26% democrat, -17% republican. Apparently I thought far more highly of Republicans than is reality (almost all were negative values, except for the the first).
And what in the shit is up with the very first question? How can like 75% of 'democrats' think that most police are bad people? I was fairly close on most of them.

Come to think of it, I'm wondering if there's something up with the quiz... the results page lists the democratic ones as almost all 'showing % disagree', I wonder if those percentages are supposed to be in opposition of the question, so how many democrats would disagree with x statement.

Retook as an independent so I could rate Democrats. All 4 marked as (showing % disagree) were the source of the largest gaps. They obviously fucked that part up.