The Party of the Poorly Educated in the Trump Era

[Perknose]

The Economist, that far left purveyor of fake news -- for our poorly educated here, that's sarcasm -- shows, with facts -- not alternative facts -- how the Republican party has successfully recruited the, ummmm, deplorably educated to their know nothing banner:

"It was in the 1970s that American politics began to polarise around voters’ levels of educational attainment. The Republican Party, until then a party of tweedy north-easterners, began recruiting less-educated southern whites, alienated by the civil-rights movement. Over time, the partisan gap between college-educated voters and less-educated ones widened. In 2016 it exploded. The Pew Research Centre, a think-tank, found that overall, college graduates favoured Hillary Clinton by 21 percentage points, while those without a degree backed Donald Trump by a seven-point margin. Among whites, the difference is greater: those without a college degree backed Mr Trump over Mrs Clinton by a margin of more than two to one."

#deploarble

 

[BoomerD]

The Economist, that far left purveyor of fake news -- for our poorly educated here, that's sarcasm -- shows, with facts -- not alternative facts -- how the Republican party has successfully recruited the, ummmm, deplorably educated to their know nothing banner:

"It was in the 1970s that American politics began to polarise around voters’ levels of educational attainment. The Republican Party, until then a party of tweedy north-easterners, began recruiting less-educated southern whites, alienated by the civil-rights movement. Over time, the partisan gap between college-educated voters and less-educated ones widened. In 2016 it exploded. The Pew Research Centre, a think-tank, found that overall, college graduates favoured Hillary Clinton by 21 percentage points, while those without a degree backed Donald Trump by a seven-point margin. Among whites, the difference is greater: those without a college degree backed Mr Trump over Mrs Clinton by a margin of more than two to one."

#deploarble

Really? Are you (or the author of that) one of them?

Deplorable

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

What dictates "high education counties" vs. low? Upon reading your quotation, I'm guessing it's just by lumping people into categories the likes of:

A) High school dropout
B) High school graduate
C) Some college
D) College Graduate
E) Advanced degree, masters, doctorate, etc...


Either way I question your judgement of a persons intellect by these lumps.

I've seen (and know) plenty of college graduates taking my orders as a Starbucks barista. You can lump them in that category all you want, that doesn't mean they are smart people in the slightest. Hell, I can think of 4 people off the top of my head from college... 1 ended up working at a brewery (bartender basically) and others still work retail to this day.

 

[BoomerD]

What dictates "high education counties" vs. low? Upon reading your quotation, I'm guessing it's just by lumping people into categories the likes of:

A) High school dropout
B) High school graduate
C) Some college
D) College Graduate
E) Advanced degree, masters, doctorate, etc...


Either way I question your judgement of a persons intellect by these lumps.

I've seen (and know) plenty of college graduates taking my orders as a Starbucks barista. You can lump them in that category all you want, that doesn't mean they are smart people in the slightest. Hell, I can think of 4 people off the top of my head from college... 1 ended up working at a brewery (bartender basically) and others still work retail to this day.

Those would be good measures of education. Nothing was really mentioned about intellect...just education. No, education does not mean "smart," just "educated."

 

[zinfamous]

What dictates "high education counties" vs. low? Upon reading your quotation, I'm guessing it's just by lumping people into categories the likes of:

A) High school dropout
B) High school graduate
C) Some college
D) College Graduate
E) Advanced degree, masters, doctorate, etc...


Either way I question your judgement of a persons intellect by these lumps.

I've seen (and know) plenty of college graduates taking my orders as a Starbucks barista. You can lump them in that category all you want, that doesn't mean they are smart people in the slightest. Hell, I can think of 4 people off the top of my head from college... 1 ended up working at a brewery (bartender basically) and others still work retail to this day.

and amazingly, "thoroughly successful" people (high salary, only) quite often demonstrate their dumb-as-bag-of-hammers status, without prompting.

such is the nature of your straw argument, my friend.

So, sure, you need to make a case for either side of your coin, which you curiously do not do. job /= education. lol--look at the dumbfuck in the Whitehouse.

educated means educated (a defined term, based on degree attainment). That's the point. everything else is irrelevant in this analysis, but I don't think you understand that. You're conflating this with a causal relationship to intellect absolutely ignores the data, the statistics...and simply reveals a profoundly naive understanding of modeling.

 

[Meghan54]

What dictates "high education counties" vs. low? Upon reading your quotation, I'm guessing it's just by lumping people into categories the likes of:

A) High school dropout
B) High school graduate
C) Some college
D) College Graduate
E) Advanced degree, masters, doctorate, etc...


Either way I question your judgement of a persons intellect by these lumps.

I've seen (and know) plenty of college graduates taking my orders as a Starbucks barista. You can lump them in that category all you want, that doesn't mean they are smart people in the slightest. Hell, I can think of 4 people off the top of my head from college... 1 ended up working at a brewery (bartender basically) and others still work retail to this day.

Nobody mentioned intellect. Education was the subject. Why are you conflating intellect with higher education? Do you have a reading comprehension problem or just choosing to not address the OP's subject?

 

[Meghan54]

and amazingly, "thoroughly successful" people (high salary, only) quite often demonstrate their dumb-as-bag-of-hammers status, without prompting.

such is the nature of your straw argument, my friend.

So, sure, you need to make a case for either side of your coin, which you curiously do not do. job /= education. lol--look at the dumbfuck in the Whitehouse.

educated means educated (a defined term, based on degree attainment). That's the point. everything else is irrelevant in this analysis, but I don't think you understand that. You're conflating this with a causal relationship to intellect absolutely ignores the data, the statistics...and simply reveals a profoundly naive understanding of modeling.

Of course he understands the difference between higher education attainment and intellect.....he is just purposefully trying to derail another thread.....

 

[Fanatical Meat]

What dictates "high education counties" vs. low? Upon reading your quotation, I'm guessing it's just by lumping people into categories the likes of:

A) High school dropout
B) High school graduate
C) Some college
D) College Graduate
E) Advanced degree, masters, doctorate, etc...


Either way I question your judgement of a persons intellect by these lumps.

I've seen (and know) plenty of college graduates taking my orders as a Starbucks barista. You can lump them in that category all you want, that doesn't mean they are smart people in the slightest. Hell, I can think of 4 people off the top of my head from college... 1 ended up working at a brewery (bartender basically) and others still work retail to this day.

So a well read and well educated barista isn’t smart?
Intelligence is based upon income?

I’m confused at what you are saying

 

[soulcougher73]

What dictates "high education counties" vs. low? Upon reading your quotation, I'm guessing it's just by lumping people into categories the likes of:

A) High school dropout
B) High school graduate
C) Some college
D) College Graduate
E) Advanced degree, masters, doctorate, etc...


Either way I question your judgement of a persons intellect by these lumps.

I've seen (and know) plenty of college graduates taking my orders as a Starbucks barista. You can lump them in that category all you want, that doesn't mean they are smart people in the slightest. Hell, I can think of 4 people off the top of my head from college... 1 ended up working at a brewery (bartender basically) and others still work retail to this day.

An "A" lecturing us on intellect, on a subject about education

I kid, i kid

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

So a well read and well educated barista isn’t smart?
Intelligence is based upon income?

I’m confused at what you are saying

Your ability to attend a class, circle some things on a paper - doesn't necessarily equate to "educated" nor "intelligent".

If you get a degree in basket weaving, are you considered educated? What if it's from a for-profit college that really didn't teach anything?

By that same token, if someone goes to a trade school and gets a 2 year+ certification in plumbing or electric work, are they less educated than the basket weaver?

 

[hal2kilo]

So a well read and well educated barista isn’t smart?
Intelligence is based upon income?

I’m confused at what you are saying

He's already made it clear that if you are rich you are smart.

 

[zinfamous]

Of course he understands the difference between higher education attainment and intellect.....he is just purposefully trying to derail another thread.....

I have yet to be convinced of this--he's made this argument dozens of times already. He doesn't care about the flaws and won't listen to anyone when they explain it to him.

 

[zinfamous]

So a well read and well educated barista isn’t smart?
Intelligence is based upon income?

I’m confused at what you are saying

I've long thought that this is how he justifies what is likely a C average throughout, because "college and elitists were too dumb to ever understand how right he was."

And yeah, plenty of people get great jobs even if they suck at the schooling thing. But they also usually prioritize different things in life, status, and such people, it is almost always money and nothing else as the determinant of success and, eventually, intellect--because those "dumb professors" are so obviously dumber because they choose to do jobs that pay less. In the simple math of money = brains, this is what works for them. ...which is totally fine. But it also appears that such people carry this chip on their shoulders--like gloating about being paid absurd amounts of money to do ultimately absurd...kinda valueless work is "really going to show them professors, some years later!" No one fucking cares that you failed upwards. It is not a new thing.

It's quite obvious, the type of people that think this way.

 

[zinfamous]

Your ability to attend a class, circle some things on a paper - doesn't necessarily equate to "educated" nor "intelligent".

If you get a degree in basket weaving, are you considered educated? What if it's from a for-profit college that really didn't teach anything?

By that same token, if someone goes to a trade school and gets a 2 year+ certification in plumbing or electric work, are they less educated than the basket weaver?

none of this has anything to do with the data presented.

Also, please provide an example of an accredited 4 year Bachelor's institution that offers a degree in "basketweaving"....especially as that is the type of thing that would actually be more appropriate for a 2 year trade school, don't you think? .....or does "trade" also only mean one or two things to you?

I know "basketweaving" is the cliched example provided by every cynical highschool counselor everywhere, but it's a silly example because it doesn't mean anything.

 

[senseamp]

The man could see a century into the future.

 

[Homerboy]

Your ability to attend a class, circle some things on a paper - doesn't necessarily equate to "educated" nor "intelligent".

If you get a degree in basket weaving, are you considered educated? What if it's from a for-profit college that really didn't teach anything?

By that same token, if someone goes to a trade school and gets a 2 year+ certification in plumbing or electric work, are they less educated than the basket weaver?

This post really helps define the difference between "intellect" and "educated". But not really in the manner you hoped it would...

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

View attachment 13147
The man could see a century into the future.

Yes, but why let facts get in the way of your feelings:

(Contrary to the wording presented in the graphic above, Mencken’s original statement made no mention of fools or narcissism.)

When in doubt, just change quotations to suite your narrative... even if that defeats the entire purpose of using quotation marks....

The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

Did H. L. Mencken Say the 'White House Will Be Adorned by a Downright Moron'?

The legendary newspaperman addressed the difficulties of good men reaching national office when such campaigns were necessarily conducted remotely.

www.snopes.com

 

[LurchFrinky]

Your ability to attend a class, circle some things on a paper - doesn't necessarily equate to "educated" nor "intelligent".

Actually, it can equate to "educated" if you pass the course, but there you go again mentioning "Intelligent" when it has been pointed out by everyone else in the thread that they are not the same thing.

If you get a degree in basket weaving, are you considered educated? What if it's from a for-profit college that really didn't teach anything?

If you could actually get a degree in basket weaving from an accredited institution, then that would count as education. If the college is accredited, then the 'for-profit' adjective is moot.

By that same token, if someone goes to a trade school and gets a 2 year+ certification in plumbing or electric work, are they less educated than the basket weaver?

That would depend on the certification of the basket weaver now wouldn't it?

It's interesting that you push the narrative that Bachelor's degrees in subjects like basket weaving are common and representative of university education. Some universities may offer a course in basket weaving, but that does not equate to offering it as a degree program.
Your insistence in this matter also leads me to believe that you have no idea what a Bachelor's degree entails. In fact, the point of a Bachelors degree is to provide a well rounded education outside of ones particular major. Everyone with such a degree would have to pass classes in math, history, fine arts or language, and several others in addition to the 2 years of classes in just their major.
If some university offered 2 years of accredited basket weaving courses in addition to the general requirements mentioned above, then you bet your ass they would be considered more educated than somebody with a trade school degree.

 

[IronWing]

Actually, it can equate to "educated" if you pass the course, but there you go again mentioning "Intelligent" when it has been pointed out by everyone else in the thread that they are not the same thing.

If you could actually get a degree in basket weaving from an accredited institution, then that would count as education. If the college is accredited, then the 'for-profit' adjective is moot.

That would depend on the certification of the basket weaver now wouldn't it?

It's interesting that you push the narrative that Bachelor's degrees in subjects like basket weaving are common and representative of university education. Some universities may offer a course in basket weaving, but that does not equate to offering it as a degree program.
Your insistence in this matter also leads me to believe that you have no idea what a Bachelor's degree entails. In fact, the point of a Bachelors degree is to provide a well rounded education outside of ones particular major. Everyone with such a degree would have to pass classes in math, history, fine arts or language, and several others in addition to the 2 years of classes in just their major.
If some university offered 2 years of accredited basket weaving courses in addition to the general requirements mentioned above, then you bet your ass they would be considered more educated than somebody with a trade school degree.

IIRC, s0me0nesmind1 was a business major.

 

[Meghan54]

IIRC, s0me0nesmind1 was a business major.

Well, that was a waste of money on his family's part and a complete waste of time on the university's part.

Unmitigated personal attacks are no longer allowed in P&N.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[Jhhnn]

Yes, but why let facts get in the way of your feelings:



When in doubt, just change quotations to suite your narrative... even if that defeats the entire purpose of using quotation marks....

Did H. L. Mencken Say the 'White House Will Be Adorned by a Downright Moron'?

The legendary newspaperman addressed the difficulties of good men reaching national office when such campaigns were necessarily conducted remotely.

www.snopes.com

Now that we have an accurate quote, what's your argument? Trump said he loves the uneducated so they love him right back. They're such good fuckin'.

 

[LurchFrinky]

IIRC, s0me0nesmind1 was a business major.

If that is true, then he would be posting information that was known to be misleading.
Is there a term for someone who purposely posts misleading information in forums?

 

[BoomerD]

If that is true, then he would be posting information that was known to be misleading.
Is there a term for someone who purposely posts misleading information in forums?

you mean besides "Trump supporter?"

 

[Homerboy]

If that is true, then he would be posting information that was known to be misleading.
Is there a term for someone who purposely posts misleading information in forums?

Republican?
Trumpster?

 

[ivwshane]

If that is true, then he would be posting information that was known to be misleading.
Is there a term for someone who purposely posts misleading information in forums?

Troll


And it is very much true. What we have here is motivated reasoning. In order for him to validate his own worth and his superiority he is trying to equate intelligence with income. And while there may be a correlation between the two, there is also a correlation between education level and intelligence, something he refuses to acknowledge.

Warning: This is much less of a "factual argument" and more of an opinionated debate topic. You have been warned. Please have experience on the topic, that obviously plays a bigger factor.



My general view simply boils down to this: After living with my wife for quite some time now I have studied how she evolves with her work. She often complains, but does very little. When it comes to work, if they don't answer my calling, it's time to go. There have been times she has come home to cry on my shoulder from what happened at work.

This is simply to bring on the emphasis for WHY there is a pay gap between genders. It's not because managers have a sexist view. It's because women have a lack of adapting to the working world like men do.


So let me walk you through myself and my wife as far as salary goes.

Myself - Graduation From College (Business MIS/CIS Degree)
1st Job - Age 22 - 25 - ~$45k
2nd Job - Age 25 - 26 - ~$65k - Through Networking and talking with others
3rd Job - $75k (Now Ahead)

Wife - Graduated From College of Science / Engineering (Double Major - Physics + Other)
1st Job (Only Major Job After) - ~$55k Starting. ~ Age 23 - 31. Pay now ~$68k

Case-in Point? I'm 26. She is 31. I am making more... and she has a double major with physics work. Am I bragging? Hell no. My point is simply being that women are obvious to getting in a "comfort zone". She has friends at work, I can guarantee she would have issues "leaving" them by having to get a new job. I've told to her to pack her shit and leave and but well... that's a different topic



What it boils down to:

Who is more willing to pack up their shit, move, and take a job elsewhere on a whim? Men.
Who is more willing to change jobs in general? Men.
What do you need to do to get ahead in life these days? Change jobs.
Fin.

Discuss.