The Official iPhone 5 Thread (Liveblog links inside!)

[ControlD]

So you use an iPod for music, a dedicated GPS for navigation and don't really use BT? Why even own a smart phone in that case?

The only problem I've ever had with BT on my iPhone is once every other month or so my phone will fail to fully synch with my Sienna BT system. Usually just going into the settings and tapping the car audio device is enough to get it back on. Otherwise my wife an I have iPhones synching back and forth between Panasonic phone systems in the house and our vehicles on a daily basis. The new touch screen setup in my wifes Camry is awesome at interfacing with a BT enabled phone. The only thing it can't do is display album art from Slacker. BT is awesome and the battery drain is *incredibly* minimal.

Agreed. My wife just got me a pair of bluetooth headphones for my birthday and now I see what I have been missing all this time. Now that I have seen the light I am thinking about getting a BT head unit in my car. As mentioned earlier by WelshBloke, finding new technology is fun. I can't see a huge use for NFC right now but I bet given the chance a lot of people would embrace it.

 

[TheSlamma]

This is better.

LOL, love it!

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

You have to admit it's a brilliant strategy from Apple. Charging an extra $200 for and extra $40 worth of NAND flash memory. It's how they produce industry leading margins on all their iDevices.

As if Google isn't going down this path with their Nexus phones and now HTC and their One X series.

Why does that matter in the least?

Youre into flashing custom ROMs, yes? Does it matter that most of the smartphone using public doesn't? And NFC tags needs less of a dev community as well.

Why bring my flashing of ROMs into this? I'm saying features like NFC are considered extra and optional considering it's been in devices for now and the public doesn't seem to embrace it. You're asking for something a small minority of people care about. I realize it's near & dear to your heart, but I don't think this reduces the quality of the product overall for not having it. It's just like the Optimus G. Great phone on paper and all, but unless the dev community picks this one up, I'm probably not going to get it. Doesn't make it a worse product, as long as the LG skin isn't bloated beyond HTC Sense 3.0.

 

[Eug]

As if Google isn't going down this path with their Nexus phones and now HTC and their One X series.

Yeah, it locks people into paying more for the tablets and phones, but I think it's more about locking people into their platforms.

Personally, I've resisted though. I never buy iTunes movies, but I may rent one occasionally. I just buy the BDs (sometimes with DRM'd iTunes digital copy) when they go on sale.

On iTunes for the longest time I just stuck with encoding my own discs to MP3. I then changed to encoding my own discs to AAC because AAC became very commonly supported, although it's moot now since iTunes AAC is DRM-less anyway.

For books, we buy... well... books. We swap them with friends when we're done.

 

[WelshBloke]

... Why bring my flashing of ROMs into this? I'm saying features like NFC are considered extra and optional considering it's been in devices for now and the public doesn't seem to embrace it. You're asking for something a small minority of people care about. I realize it's near & dear to your heart, but I don't think this reduces the quality of the product overall for not having it. It's just like the Optimus G. Great phone on paper and all, but unless the dev community picks this one up, I'm probably not going to get it. Doesn't make it a worse product, as long as the LG skin isn't bloated beyond HTC Sense 3.0.

Because flashing ROMs is also something that the general public doesn't do, it doesn't make it any less useful because of that though.

NFC tags don't need anything like the dev input that ROMs do, you programme them yourself.

It's not particularly near or dear to my heart I can just see some fantastic potential to NFC tags. I'm just surprised that a lot of people here can't. Whether you want to use them or not is irrelevant, it's the fact that people can't see a use for them that's surprising me.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Because flashing ROMs is also something that the general public doesn't do, it doesn't make it any less useful because of that though.

NFC tags don't need anything like the dev input that ROMs do, you programme them yourself.

It's not particularly near or dear to my heart I can just see some fantastic potential to NFC tags. I'm just surprised that a lot of people here can't. Whether you want to use them or not is irrelevant, it's the fact that people can't see a use for them that's surprising me.

It really comes down to cost/value. You flashing ROMs doesn't cost the mfg anything unless you brick and somehow trick them into eating that cost. Adding NFC functionality to a phone adds cost to the phone. You either eat that cost or pass it on to the customer in some way, either by reducing cost elsewhere or increasing price. I think at this point it's only on some phones just because they want that checkbox marked for comparison shoppers. The demand just isn't there at present for a company like Apple, who is going to sell millions of phones regardless, to try to cater to the niche that does care by adding that feature.

 

[bearxor]

You have to admit it's a brilliant strategy from Apple. Charging an extra $200 for and extra $40 worth of NAND flash memory. It's how they produce industry leading margins on all their iDevices.

Even I'm at the point now where I think it's kind of ridiculous.

I guess they charge that because they can, which is nice and all. But I'd really like to see $199/$249/$299 price points. The difference in price between 16GB and 64GB is only like $40. A 150% markup doesn't seem that bad to me.

 

[cheezy321]

Apple 'hasn't really run out of iPhone 5s AT ALL'

I just read this trash...it took me a while to realize it wasn't written by the onion.

 

[Eug]

Reasonably speedy 64 GB USB flash drives at retail now go for under $30, and that's including the circuitry and all the packaging.

I wonder how much costs Apple for that extra 48 GB of flash.

 

[WelshBloke]

It really comes down to cost/value. You flashing ROMs doesn't cost the mfg anything unless you brick and somehow trick them into eating that cost. Adding NFC functionality to a phone adds cost to the phone. You either eat that cost or pass it on to the customer in some way, either by reducing cost elsewhere or increasing price. I think at this point it's only on some phones just because they want that checkbox marked for comparison shoppers. The demand just isn't there at present for a company like Apple, who is going to sell millions of phones regardless, to try to cater to the niche that does care by adding that feature.

I can see why manufacturers want to save a dollar or two, I'm just surprised that more people aren't curious about it.

 

[Eug]

I can see why manufacturers want to save a dollar or two, I'm just surprised that more people aren't curious about it.

Cuz it's really not that exciting.

Bigger screen? Yes, a lot of people care.
LTE? Yes a lot of people care.
Non-stuttery OS? Yes a lot of people care.
NFC? What's that? Never heard of it. Oh that's what it is? Meh.

You may be surprised that NFC isn't more popular, but I'm not surprised in the least.

Why NFC is Irrelevant To the Mass Market

The article focuses on the retail side, which arguably is the most compelling reason for the existence of NFC, but illustrates just how irrelevant it is for even that. But this is the point I was alluding to when I mentioned that NFC offers no tangible real world benefit over 2D barcodes:

The reality is there is nothing that can be done with NFC that can not be done by an app and a connection to the Internet.

--

To put it another way, I think Thunderbolt is a cool technology, but I also think it is a very uphill battle for the technology. It's a costly solution in search of a problem, which is why I'm not surprised at all that virtually no PC makers include it, esp. in 2012.

--

P.S. The one thing missing from the iPhone that I would have liked to have seen is USB 3 support.

 

[WelshBloke]

The reality is there is nothing that can be done with NFC that can not be done by an app and a connection to the Internet.

.

How would my phone know its sitting on my dashboard without any user input?
How would it know its sitting on my stereo and to start streaming some songs?
Etc/etc

How would you do that with an app and an internet connection?

 

[Eug]

How would my phone know its sitting on my dashboard without any user input?
How would it know its sitting on my stereo and to start streaming some songs?
Etc/etc

How would you do that with an app and an internet connection?

The difference is:

1) With NFC, you put the phone in the exact spot, and it does the preprogrammed task. However, if you put your phone in that spot, but you don't want it to do the preprogrammed task, you have to tell it not to.

2) With an app that reads 2D barcodes, you activate the app which scans the barcode, and it does the desired task. However, if you don't want to do anything, you don't do anything.

I actually like solution #2 better, and there is no requirement to have yet another wireless transmitter active all the time either for #2, wasting battery life. Some people believe NFC also adds another layer of security problems to the OS too.

However, in truth, I'm not excited by either solution. If I put my device on the stereo, maybe it's just because I want to charge it. And then an hour later when I want to play music, I'll just press play, maybe from the remote I have on the other side of the room.

 

[WelshBloke]

The difference is:

1) With NFC, you put the phone in the exact spot, and it does the preprogrammed task. However, if you put your phone in that spot, but you don't want it to do the preprogrammed task, you have to tell it not to.

2) With an app that reads 2D barcodes, you activate the app which scans the barcode, and it does the desired task. However, if you don't want to do anything, you don't do anything.
...

1) The point is that you pick a spot where you do want those actions to occur. If you dont want it to do that put it down elsewhere.

2) That really isnt automating anything if you have to open an app and scan a barcode. Why not just do the original task yourself in the first place.

 

[Eug]

1) The point is that you pick a spot where you do want those actions to occur. If you dont want it to do that put it down elsewhere.

Bingo. Why must I chose to put the device in a different place? Do I really want to have an AV system (or car for that matter) with three docking stations? One to just charge it, one to automatically stream video, and one to automatically stream music?

It's much better just to start the damn app or use the remote or whatever.

2) That really isnt automating anything if you have to open an app and scan a barcode. Why not just do the original task yourself in the first place.

The barcode with net link acts like an NFC pre-programmed task, complete with the necessary settings, etc. except it requires no extra hardware.

But like I said, I don't use that either. See above.

 

[dguy6789]

I want my phone to be smart and do as much as it can without needing my hand holding. By your logic it seems you would rather have to open a Calendar app up randomly during the day to see if you missed anything on your agenda vs getting a notification that an event is coming up automatically. That's just backwards.

 

[Eug]

I want my phone to be smart and do as much as it can without needing my hand holding. By your logic it seems you would rather have to open a Calendar app up randomly during the day to see if you missed anything on your agenda vs getting a notification that an event is coming up automatically. That's just backwards.

I don't see how that is at all comparable.

What I'm saying is I don't want Calendar to load up just because I happened to plug my phone into my dock, or just because I happened to put it by the NFC chip. But if I did, someone could set this up in software, without any need for NFC or barcodes at all. Similarly, when I plug my phone into a stereo dock (say in a hotel) I don't want it to automatically stream music every single time. Most of the time it's just to charge the thing before I go to sleep.

 

[Naeeldar]

Agreed. My wife just got me a pair of bluetooth headphones for my birthday and now I see what I have been missing all this time. Now that I have seen the light I am thinking about getting a BT head unit in my car. As mentioned earlier by WelshBloke, finding new technology is fun. I can't see a huge use for NFC right now but I bet given the chance a lot of people would embrace it.

Almost every BT headphones I've ever used has a horrible MIC and you sound distant to the person your talking too. GRanted I haven't used the headset in years and I never went up to $100 or so for headset.

What headset do you use?

 

[WelshBloke]

Bingo. Why must I chose to put the device in a different place? Do I really want to have an AV system (or car for that matter) with three docking stations? One to just charge it, one to automatically stream video, and one to automatically stream music?

It's much better just to start the damn app or use the remote or whatever.

Ok so set it up to ask you which of those options you want.

Point is you can automate a bunch of stuff that you do on a regular basis. It doesnt have to just be in the car.

I'm getting the feeling that you're looking for nits to pick.

The barcode with net link acts like an NFC pre-programmed task, complete with the necessary settings, etc. except it requires no extra hardware.

But like I said, I don't use that either. See above.

Except the NFC tag can do all that without any input if you want it to.

 

[Eug]

Almost every BT headphones I've ever used has a horrible MIC and you sound distant to the person your talking too. GRanted I haven't used the headset in years and I never went up to $100 or so for headset.

Yeah, I've used a bunch of Bluetooth headsets over the years, with my first Sony one from a bazillion years ago costing $200.

My el cheapo Apple headphones with built-in mic sound way better both in terms of the mic to the listener at the other end, and from the sound quality through the earbud. And it never needs pairing or charging.

Ok so set it up to ask you which of those options you want.

Point is you can automate a bunch of stuff that you do on a regular basis. It doesnt have to just be in the car.

I'm getting the feeling that you're looking for nits to pick.

No I'm just being realistic. I see where you're coming from, but what I'm telling you is that the interest is lacking for a reason. I'd say for most people (but not all, or you) it's just not that interesting. It's more hassle than it's worth.

 

[dguy6789]

NFC is good because it's extremely cheap and easy to implement both from a phone manufacturer's perspective and on the other side of the fence where NFC tags would be used. Having been using NFC for almost a year now regularly I can say that I can't really imagine someone having it go off when they don't intend for it to.

 

[WelshBloke]

...
No I'm just being realistic. I see where you're coming from, but what I'm telling you is that the interest is lacking for a reason. I'd say for most people (but not all, or you) it's just not that interesting. It's more hassle than it's worth.

How does average Joes interest (or lack of it) make it any less useful?

 

[Eug]

NFC is good because it's extremely cheap and easy to implement both from a phone manufacturer's perspective and on the other side of the fence where NFC tags would be used. Having been using NFC for almost a year now regularly I can say that I can't really imagine someone having it go off when they don't intend for it to.

See below.

I think it's interesting, but not necessarily a killer feature. Plus when I used to leave NFC on, my phone would pick up my credit cards all the time. It was a bit annoying. Turned it off to save battery.

---

How does average Joes interest (or lack of it) make it any less useful?

Actually, what I'm saying the lack of interest is because it's not very useful to most people. For me it just seems seems like a hassle or a waste of time.

You may as well just bring up Zune squirting.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

It's not particularly near or dear to my heart I can just see some fantastic potential to NFC tags. I'm just surprised that a lot of people here can't. Whether you want to use them or not is irrelevant, it's the fact that people can't see a use for them that's surprising me.

Well then, this is more of a marketing question... how do you get people interested in such technology? Even the iPhone took a little bit to take off, but it seems all it took was a $199 price point after 1 year.

NFC has been out for more than a year. They talk about payments, they talk about beaming, but no one gives a crap.

I think it's the fact that setting up automation takes more time. It's not what the public is interested in. I can sample like a good number of my friends including my gf who are all from engineering backgrounds, and I can tell you a huge chunk of them don't do anything with their browsers other than surf. No extensions, nada. So when they tell me Chrome is so good versus Firefox, I tell them that with what they do IE9 is perfectly fine. Meanwhile I'll enjoy my FF extensions.

Extensions are powerful, but why isn't it a mainstream thing? You tell me. You just gotta get people interested enough to jump. Meanwhile I see stupid Chrome extensions like Gmail being a top extension. Why do you need gmail as an extension when you can go to the site itself. Other things like Adblock should be more highly prioritized.

 

[MrX8503]

Apple probably didn't find NFC important enough to put in the effort to fit the chip inside their iPhone. Remember that by volume, the iPhone5 is one of the smallest smartphones out there.