The OFFICIAL Anandtech Forums TeS V: Skyrim Thread

[Markbnj]

I actually don't mind the loop. As others have said, it helps my OCD by limiting all the backtracking and endless exploration if the game gave me too many choices in each dungeon.

Not sure if it's lame, or if I really do enjoy entering a dungeon and discovering the rock wall or barred door near the entrance that will be exit from the final chamber. it's nice, though, when you need to return to complete quests received after randomly exploring these places. You don't have to run all the way through the dungeon again.

I like layouts where I have to pay attention or consult a map to figure out my next move. Makes the whole thing that much more tense and interesting for me.

In any case, it all just seems to gel with the basic design goal of making the game easier by removing choices so the player can think less and just get into the action. Obviously, the strategy works. The product is hugely successful. I'm always going to miss the depth of the pre-console days, though. As cool as this game is I can't see it holding my attention as long as Morrowind did.

 

[thespyder]

I like layouts where I have to pay attention or consult a map to figure out my next move. Makes the whole thing that much more tense and interesting for me.

In any case, it all just seems to gel with the basic design goal of making the game easier by removing choices so the player can think less and just get into the action. Obviously, the strategy works. The product is hugely successful. I'm always going to miss the depth of the pre-console days, though. As cool as this game is I can't see it holding my attention as long as Morrowind did.

Successful >< works. Reality TV works as a business model. It doesn't mean that it is GREAT television by any stretch of the imagination. or that TV is/can ever be GREAT I guess.

Was just thinking that the entire game is sandbox and intended thusly to be a go which ever way you want. That is why you have choice of race and skill sets and where to go and what quests to pursue and in what order. For all of those choices, to make the individual dungeons so linear seems a bit contra to the open-ness of the game as a whole.

But I agree that a lot of the choices are dumbed down and don't appear to have a great deal of consequences. And maybe that is what is going on. We have the illusion of choice but what does it actually impact the game? And so maybe we are merely going down a floom ride of a game but we just think it is full of choices? Kind of like what the aliens in Slaughterhouse 5 described human perception of time.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I like layouts where I have to pay attention or consult a map to figure out my next move. Makes the whole thing that much more tense and interesting for me.

In any case, it all just seems to gel with the basic design goal of making the game easier by removing choices so the player can think less and just get into the action. Obviously, the strategy works. The product is hugely successful. I'm always going to miss the depth of the pre-console days, though. As cool as this game is I can't see it holding my attention as long as Morrowind did.

I see where you're coming from, but I have to tell you, from my perspective, that sounds like it would be a nightmare. I feel like the dungeons are large and labrynthian enough. My favorite parts of the game are running around outside searching for treasure or hunting or taking out dragons. If you expanded some of the Dwemer ruins so there were tons of different branching paths, I'd get lost and I'd never find my way out, and that would be needlessly frustrating for me. I get lost in the linear ruins they have now, and with no way to fast travel out, I'd just give up.

So, yeah, I can see why people want massive, expansive, branching dungeons, but I can also see why the designers didn't include them; players like me might find ourselves trapped underground in a place we could never leave, and while that might be fun for some people, most casual players would hate it. Fortunately, Skyrim has an active modding community and with the new tools coming out, I wouldn't be remotely surprised to see people putting together some fairly elaborate dungeons that you can run through to your heart's content and people like me can blissfully ignore.

 

[thespyder]

I see where you're coming from, but I have to tell you, from my perspective, that sounds like it would be a nightmare. I feel like the dungeons are large and labrynthian enough. My favorite parts of the game are running around outside searching for treasure or hunting or taking out dragons. If you expanded some of the Dwemer ruins so there were tons of different branching paths, I'd get lost and I'd never find my way out, and that would be needlessly frustrating for me. I get lost in the linear ruins they have now, and with no way to fast travel out, I'd just give up.

So, yeah, I can see why people want massive, expansive, branching dungeons, but I can also see why the designers didn't include them; players like me might find ourselves trapped underground in a place we could never leave, and while that might be fun for some people, most casual players would hate it. Fortunately, Skyrim has an active modding community and with the new tools coming out, I wouldn't be remotely surprised to see people putting together some fairly elaborate dungeons that you can run through to your heart's content and people like me can blissfully ignore.

I don't think that the mazes need to be so complex that you could get hopelessly lost and never find your way out, but there has to be a middle ground between that and a straight line that never ever deviates from entrance to Boss and then back out.

Particularly considering the other aspects of the game, this seems a bit short chalked.

 

[shortylickens]

If the dungeons were more varied and complex, like Baldurs Gate 2, I wouldnt mind so much.

Best game ever. But thats another topic.

 

[Martimus]

There are some dungeons with multiple paths. (Like the Dwemer one under Markarth) But most allow for easy exit once completed. I would assume to cut down on the boring backtracking through empty dungeons that plague older RPGs once the quest is done.

 

[zinfamous]

I see where you're coming from, but I have to tell you, from my perspective, that sounds like it would be a nightmare. I feel like the dungeons are large and labrynthian enough. My favorite parts of the game are running around outside searching for treasure or hunting or taking out dragons. If you expanded some of the Dwemer ruins so there were tons of different branching paths, I'd get lost and I'd never find my way out, and that would be needlessly frustrating for me. I get lost in the linear ruins they have now, and with no way to fast travel out, I'd just give up.

So, yeah, I can see why people want massive, expansive, branching dungeons, but I can also see why the designers didn't include them; players like me might find ourselves trapped underground in a place we could never leave, and while that might be fun for some people, most casual players would hate it. Fortunately, Skyrim has an active modding community and with the new tools coming out, I wouldn't be remotely surprised to see people putting together some fairly elaborate dungeons that you can run through to your heart's content and people like me can blissfully ignore.

It seems like a design and budget compromise to me. And for me, a compromise in enjoyment. I, too, would probably just give up if given much more choice. I like the openness of the world, and already get completely stuck wandering about. Whenever I get sick of the dungeons, I just wander outside for a spell unlocking new spots and getting sent off to new quests. The outside world is as open as I need it, and for me, I wouldn't want as much of that inside.

And many of these dungeons are huge, and up to a certain point for me--so into level 40 or so, still quite difficult at times. So many restarts at certain points that it would just take forever to clear certain rooms (I think I need to up the difficulty, now--sneaking right up to the face of a Deathlord and one-shotting it is a bit unfair).

Also, trying to put this realistically, If people did dig out these tunnels and underground structures, you wouldn't have these massive networks of tunnels that go nowhere. That just makes no sense considering all the rock and dirt you have to push. i can see a point for having more hallways or tunnels that run off to quick dead ends (though there are plenty of those), or in the few dungeons with multiple levels, some levels that can be quickly bypassed or explored in full, if you wish (say, climbing up a tower with central stairwell, Only a handful of multiple floors being essential to progress).

 

[zinfamous]

There are some dungeons with multiple paths. (Like the Dwemer one under Markarth) But most allow for easy exit once completed. I would assume to cut down on the boring backtracking through empty dungeons that plague older RPGs once the quest is done.

yeah, that's how I feel. Also consider that it's a merciful design element to allow more efficient loot harvesting and merching.

Of course, I solve this backtracking problem with: ~ Player.setav carryweight 10000 ~




(actually, I go with 2000 carry weight)

 

[ManBearPig]

My problem is that after the early/mid game there's like...nothing to do. Almost all the dungeons are the same. There are very few cool items that randomly fall or are even set, so exploring ends up getting lame, and once you max smithing/enchanting/whatever, there's nowhere to go from there. Wish there were more unique items.

 

[thespyder]

My problem is that after the early/mid game there's like...nothing to do. Almost all the dungeons are the same. There are very few cool items that randomly fall or are even set, so exploring ends up getting lame, and once you max smithing/enchanting/whatever, there's nowhere to go from there. Wish there were more unique items.

Personally I haven't hit the point where anything is booring. Still WAY too much world to explore (only like 27th level and maybe 40 hours into the game with my current character). But i agree there should be more unique items.

 

[Spydermag68]

One thing I really hated about "buggerfall" was the dungeons that I could not escape from. The 3dwith map sucked._

 

[zinfamous]

Personally I haven't hit the point where anything is booring. Still WAY too much world to explore (only like 27th level and maybe 40 hours into the game with my current character). But i agree there should be more unique items.

I expect there to be more unique items with community mods. This is a big complaint I have, too. A lot of dungeons with little reward in the end. Most of the "unique" are just quest targets. It would be nice to see more random loot drops, but there aren't many respawns, so it's difficult to make that viable, I think.

 

[Markbnj]

I expect there to be more unique items with community mods. This is a big complaint I have, too. A lot of dungeons with little reward in the end. Most of the "unique" are just quest targets. It would be nice to see more random loot drops, but there aren't many respawns, so it's difficult to make that viable, I think.

The loot system has been a complaint of mine since Morrowind. It's especially bad if, even though you know there isn't a damn thing in that barrel except some potatoes or apples, you still feel compelled to check every damn container in a dungeon.

My favorite times are when I blow five or six lockpicks on an adept or master lock, only to find 8 gold.

 

[zinfamous]

The loot system has been a complaint of mine since Morrowind. It's especially bad if, even though you know there isn't a damn thing in that barrel except some potatoes or apples, you still feel compelled to check every damn container in a dungeon.

My favorite times are when I blow five or six lockpicks on an adept or master lock, only to find 8 gold.

hehe, yeah....

One of the things I've never liked is searching corpses. I get it, for immersion and such--but maybe it's the early experience with Diablo and the fact that I've been a Guild Wars homer for so long, but I really love the visceral feeling you get when junk pops out of your dead foe and hits the ground in a couple of piles, with various colors.

Now, I wouldn't want to see that sort of thing with a game like TES, but I do miss the pretty colors....and being able to scan the ground (hotkey to highlight all the loot always helps) quickly to see if I want anything.

 

[ManBearPig]

The loot system has been a complaint of mine since Morrowind. It's especially bad if, even though you know there isn't a damn thing in that barrel except some potatoes or apples, you still feel compelled to check every damn container in a dungeon.

My favorite times are when I blow five or six lockpicks on an adept or master lock, only to find 8 gold.

This times a million. The shitty thing is, the harder the lock, the more I want to open it...which sucks, because behind harder locks, the loot isnt any better...yet it takes for fucking ever and is frustrating.

There have been a few times when i've cracked a lock with my not skilled at lockpicking mage, only to discover rocks! No items at all. Or picking a master locked door, only to have to pick a master locked dwemer chest, only to find like 8 gold and a shitty jewel.

 

[shortylickens]

I have long said since Morrowind, there needs to be half as many containers and twice as much in them.
I'm just sitting in my office looking around, and I do not have 50 filing cabinets with one sheet of paper in each of them.

In the tiny narrow rubbermaid on my left I must have 10 memory sticks, 12 memory cards, two card readers, a gravis gamepad, extra foamies for my headphones, extra speakers (tiny, 2 AA's each), two sets of finger exercisers, some dubbing cables, extension cables, tiny hand lotion (mint lime) and thats all I can think of without actually looking in there.

 

[dennilfloss]

Well, that was different. I helped a hagraven kill another. Then, even though she had been OK with me and even rewarded me, I turned on the first one because... SHE'S A HAGRAVEN!!! :whiste:

Now to go clear a forsworn camp because THEY'RE ASSHOLES!!!:twisted:

 

[dennilfloss]

And so am I...

 

[Martimus]

Well, that was different. I helped a hagraven kill another. Then, even though she had been OK with me and even rewarded me, I turned on the first one because... SHE'S A HAGRAVEN!!! :whiste:

Now to go clear a forsworn camp because THEY'RE ASSHOLES!!!:twisted:

She never turned on me. She gave me her staff after her rival Hagraven was dead. Maybe you accidentally killed the wrong Hagraven in the fight at the end and the bad one kept fighting you.

EDIT: I read that wrong. You can ignore what I wrote.

 

[JackSpadesSI]

The loot system has been a complaint of mine since Morrowind. It's especially bad if, even though you know there isn't a damn thing in that barrel except some potatoes or apples, you still feel compelled to check every damn container in a dungeon.

My favorite times are when I blow five or six lockpicks on an adept or master lock, only to find 8 gold.

I award you post of the day!

(Also, why would a group of bandits, who collectively own 15 apples and 12 potatoes, choose to split them up amongst 6 barrels - especially when those barrels are, themselves, spread out over a massive underground cave system?! That must be horribly inconvenient for them at lunch time!)

 

[JackSpadesSI]

Also, trying to put this realistically, If people did dig out these tunnels and underground structures...

Apparently, those people completely forgot to build any bathrooms down there while they were at it. Sort of awkward, huh?

 

[Beev]

So I'm probably going to get the PC version of the game in a week or so, and I should have a good enough machine to max everything and use higher res textures as well. What are some must have mods? I know that's been asked plenty in here, but I wouldn't know how out of date any of the suggestions are.

 

[thespyder]

One thing I really hated about "buggerfall" was the dungeons that I could not escape from. The 3dwith map sucked._

I remember being totally in awe of the 3D dungeons from Daggerfall. It was so much better than the flat one dimensional maps I had seen up to that point (and mostly even today). I mean the concept that dungeons aren't laid out like and office block? Mind boggling.

 

[thespyder]

I award you post of the day!

(Also, why would a group of bandits, who collectively own 15 apples and 12 potatoes, choose to split them up amongst 6 barrels - especially when those barrels are, themselves, spread out over a massive underground cave system?! That must be horribly inconvenient for them at lunch time!)

Um, their BANDITS. they don't know the meaning of the word share. Each Bandit has their own stash and woe to anyone who violates that stash. it more or less explains why you can stealth kill them off one at a time and the others don't care.

 

[zinfamous]

I award you post of the day!

(Also, why would a group of bandits, who collectively own 15 apples and 12 potatoes, choose to split them up amongst 6 barrels - especially when those barrels are, themselves, spread out over a massive underground cave system?! That must be horribly inconvenient for them at lunch time!)

Well, since they have guards patrolling at different areas, those handful of apples in each barrel is meant to be their lunch, so that they don't have to leave their station?

So I'm probably going to get the PC version of the game in a week or so, and I should have a good enough machine to max everything and use higher res textures as well. What are some must have mods? I know that's been asked plenty in here, but I wouldn't know how out of date anyone suggestions are.

Hard to say--it looks like 1.4 release is imminent, so it's hard to say what will or won't be broken very soon. Probably the most important si the SSE fix, assuming that isn't fixed in 1.4 (looks like it is)

After that, probably SkyUI, which makes a very good stab at fixing the broken menu system, though it is not yet complete.