The Next Frontier in Social Justice: Fattitude

[nehalem256]

And blacks are more likely to commit crimes. Shouldn't we be arresting more?

And in fact we do arrest more black people ()

And since statistics show they are more likely to commit violent crime we most certainly ought to be walling them off into FEMA camps or something. It's for the Greater Good, and we all know we want that.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion.

All I said is if you decide to make life choices that everyone knows have a high risk of biting you in the butt don't come running to me for sympathy.

If you commit crimes don't cry when you get arrested.

If you engage in promiscuous butt-sex don't cry when you get the AIDS.

If you won't put down the ho-hos and Mountain Dew don't cry when you can't fit in the airplane seat.

 

[Mursilis]

Congratulations on your weight loss. As far as "yes it is", well there are people who stopped being gay. There are black inner city people who got out and got a job. Therefore being overweight is a moral failing like being a lazy black or being gay. Addiction to drugs and alcohol doesn't exist. It's inferior people.

The problem is that the science doesn't back the displayed ignorance. The social and genetic factors in this country overwhelmingly predispose the population to obesity.

I understand addictions exist, but we're also not slaves to them. For example, I recognize I lack a certain degree of willpower. One of the many foods I love is ice cream, and if there's any in my freezer, I'll probably eat most of it pretty quickly. I generally lose that battle. What I can do, however, is not buy ice cream, so that when I'm home and hungry, it's not there to tempt me, and my only options are healthy snacks like fruit or veggies. Like an alcoholic who recognizes they shouldn't even enter a bar, I know there are certain foods I simply can't have in my house.

As for science and what it does and doesn't back, is weight no longer determined by calories taken in vs. calories burned? Is that no longer a scientific fact?

 

[nehalem256]

I can make almost anyone gain weight without them eating more or exercising less. I'll wager the vast majority of people who "know" so much about how things work haven't a clue as to what it is, or if they do they'll simply ignore the science, and science is the real point here, not Pharisees standing on the corner pointing at the sinners and giving thanks they aren't like them.

So you are claiming to be able to repeal the law physics?

Let us assume that the 10.7% of obese people in 1960 were all obese due to "genetics". Well that still means that the 25.2% more people who are obese are obese due to their life choices.

Which means that it is pretty much unquestionable that 70+% of people are obese due to their own actions.

 

[boomerang]

What is "Social Justice"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtBvQj2k6xo

 

[Nebor]

Fat people either eat too much, don't exercise enough, or both. They can make up all the excuses they want but coming from a country with a lot of very healthy and skinny people I should probably point out that they also work out 5 days a week and don't eat giant portions of food. So if you know someone who is fat odds are they don't do enough to change.

Fat people don't want to face reality. They are unhealthy and there is nothing to be proud of about that.

It really is this simple. This is just the advanced stages of a society in which no one is responsible for themselves. Everything is always someone elses fault.

 

[Nebor]

So those with Thyroid disease are at fault, gotcha.

So a small percentage of the population with a legitimate disease can be exploited by millions of lazy, overeating oafs to excuse their own behavior, gotchha.

I should just start getting wheeled around in a wheelchair because, you know, walking is for suckers, and if anyone claims that I'm lazy I'll say I'm paralyzed. Who needs an actual medical diagnosis?

Not to mention the fact that we're seeing more and more thyroid disorders caused by obesity. The majority of thyroid cases diagnosed in the US today are caused by obesity related illness. The amount of obesity (or being dramatically underweight) caused by thyroid disorders is tiny.

 

[Nebor]

And blacks are more likely to commit crimes. Shouldn't we be arresting more? And since statistics show they are more likely to commit violent crime we most certainly ought to be walling them off into FEMA camps or something. It's for the Greater Good, and we all know we want that.

Honestly, it would be difficult to arrest more blacks at this point. All manner of policing targets them heavily, even community policing.

But whatever link you're trying to establish between fats and blacks is falling flat on it's face.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Uh I'm American. And the reason people are fat back home is because they eat too much and don't exercise. Not because they live there.

Additives and growth hormones in food have an effect as well. Every time I work several months in Southeast Asia I lose 25 to 30 pounds and eat as much as I do in the US.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

So a small percentage of the population with a legitimate disease can be exploited by millions of lazy, overeating oafs to excuse their own behavior, gotchha.

I should just start getting wheeled around in a wheelchair because, you know, walking is for suckers, and if anyone claims that I'm lazy I'll say I'm paralyzed. Who needs an actual medical diagnosis?

Not to mention the fact that we're seeing more and more thyroid disorders caused by obesity. The majority of thyroid cases diagnosed in the US today are caused by obesity related illness. The amount of obesity (or being dramatically underweight) caused by thyroid disorders is tiny.

The majority of thyroid issues are due to autoimmune diseases (Hashimoto's and Graves disease).

Also I I mentioned in my last post there are additives and growth hormones in the food Americans eat. Growth hormones work great on live stock and work well on humans as well.

 

[Nebor]

Congratulations on your weight loss. As far as "yes it is", well there are people who stopped being gay. There are black inner city people who got out and got a job. Therefore being overweight is a moral failing like being a lazy black or being gay. Addiction to drugs and alcohol doesn't exist. It's inferior people.

The problem is that the science doesn't back the displayed ignorance. The social and genetic factors in this country overwhelmingly predispose the population to obesity.

I can make almost anyone gain weight without them eating more or exercising less. I'll wager the vast majority of people who "know" so much about how things work haven't a clue as to what it is, or if they do they'll simply ignore the science, and science is the real point here, not Pharisees standing on the corner pointing at the sinners and giving thanks they aren't like them.

People aren't born fat, they are born black or gay.

Fat apologists usually like to trot out a facade of scientific "evidence" but then quickly fall back on their feelings once they get destroyed by everyone else.

For example, you seem to be claiming that the most basic laws of physics simply don't exist inside the human body.

Science isn't the point for fat apologists. Excusing their own bad behavior is the point. Displacing the blame is the point.

 

[Nebor]

Additives and growth hormones in food have an effect as well. Every time I work several months in Southeast Asia I lose 25 to 30 pounds and eat as much as I do in the US.

Wait, so you actually acknowledge that you CAN lose weight? And you even seem to know how. Watch what you eat instead of shoveling garbage into your mouth and then blaming society for it.

 

[Nebor]

The majority of thyroid issues are due to autoimmune diseases (Hashimoto's and Graves disease).

Also I I mentioned in my last post there are additives and growth hormones in the food Americans eat. Growth hormones work great on live stock and work well on humans as well.

This is a red herring. Thyroid disorders are responsible for a tiny amount of the obesity in the US. And treatments are very effective. I've never met an overweight individual that claimed to have a thyroid issue and was actually diagnosed and treated for it. I have met a few individuals who were once overweight, discovered they had a thyroid disorder and were subsequently treated and returned to a normal weight.

I've met hundreds of fatties that have every reason in the world for being fat. Only a handful of them were willing to accept personal responsibility for themselves.

 

[nehalem256]

Additives and growth hormones in food have an effect as well. Every time I work several months in Southeast Asia I lose 25 to 30 pounds and eat as much as I do in the US.

I have been to SE Asia as well.

In America the minimum soda size is something like 20+oz with free refills.

In SE Asia you get maybe 12oz, with no free refill.

 

[Bowfinger]

Congratulations on your weight loss. As far as "yes it is", well there are people who stopped being gay. There are black inner city people who got out and got a job. Therefore being overweight is a moral failing like being a lazy black or being gay. Addiction to drugs and alcohol doesn't exist. It's inferior people.

The problem is that the science doesn't back the displayed ignorance. The social and genetic factors in this country overwhelmingly predispose the population to obesity.

I can make almost anyone gain weight without them eating more or exercising less. I'll wager the vast majority of people who "know" so much about how things work haven't a clue as to what it is, or if they do they'll simply ignore the science, and science is the real point here, not Pharisees standing on the corner pointing at the sinners and giving thanks they aren't like them.

This. I read a lot of science and health stuff, and there have been a lot of fascinating articles about obesity over the last few years. It's not nearly as simple as the sanctimonious bigots want it to be.

For example, one study found that it's not just Americans who are fatter. Indeed, it's not even just people who've become fatter. It's also lab animals, many different species, that have become heavier over the decades, even when controlling for diet and exercise. They don't yet know why but speculate it may be certain food additives or the effects of artificial lighting.

I've also seen several articles discussing a link between gut bacteria and obesity. One study found that if they transferred gut bacteria from fat mice into thin mice, the thin mice started gaining weight, even though their diet and exercise remained the same. Other studies found people would often spontaneously start losing weight after procedures that substantially changed their gut bacteria.

Finally, I read that the extremely obese are metabolically different from those who merely carry a few extra pounds (like Mursilis). Diet and exercise works great for those with a few extra pounds. For the extremely obese, however, it works temporarily at best. Less than 1% of the extremely obese succeed with diet and exercise over the long term (either 3 years or 5 years, don't remember). From a medical perspective, such a complete failure rate would normally completely discredit the treatment, yet even many medical professionals cling to their old prejudices.

The bottom line is that while diet and exercise are always a great starting point, the problem with obesity is far more complex than that. Especially for the extremely obese, other treatments are necessary.


On a side note, it's interesting to note how this issue unites ignorant people across the political spectrum. Even the most die hard lefties who denounce bigotry based on ethnicity, color, or sexual preference, are happy to jump on board with smug, anti-fat bigotry. Educate yourselves, gentlemen. It's the best cure for bigotry.

 

[nehalem256]

Finally, I read that the extremely obese are metabolically different from those who merely carry a few extra pounds (like Mursilis). Diet and exercise works great for those with a few extra pounds. For the extremely obese, however, it works temporarily at best. Less than 1% of the extremely obese succeed with diet and exercise over the long term (either 3 years or 5 years, don't remember). From a medical perspective, such a complete failure rate would normally completely discredit the treatment, yet even many medical professionals cling to their old prejudices.

And for every story of some morbidly obese person that was "metabolically different" I am sure you can find 10 where this issue is over eating and not exercising.

For example:

On his blog, I've Said It All Before, Colao gives examples of some of his regular meals at the time. One included two burgers, a large soda, large French fries and chicken nuggets, totaling more than 2,400 calories.

"I quit smoking and stopped eating everything that was bad," he says.
Colao's parents bought him a treadmill because he was uncomfortable exercising in a gym. "That's what really helped me the most -- being able to gain the physical and mental stability and work out on my own," he recalls.

He started by walking and slowly worked his way up to jogging and weightlifting.
Colao overhauled his diet as well. He stopped eating fast food, fried food and red meat and drinking soda. He forced himself to get accustomed to healthy alternatives while allowing himself to indulge in small things so he wouldn't feel overwhelmed.

He was motivated to change his eating habits by realizing how much time he would have to exercise to burn off the foods he was consuming.
Over the first couple of months, Colao dropped 50 pounds. The loss drove him to continue, and he set a goal of losing 200 pounds.

When he had lost down to 305 pounds, Colao went through a difficult breakup and eased up on his calorie counting and exercising habits. Six months later, he had gained back 40 pounds.
Scared he would continue gaining weight, he got back on the wagon.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/10/health/weight-loss-mario-colao-irpt/

So lets see. When he exercised and ate right he lost weight.

When he stopped exercising and eating right he regained the weight.

Gee, who would have thought it

 

[Nebor]

In this thread, many people pretend that a pound of human fat isn't created from consuming an excess of approximately 3500 kilocalories.

 

[Nebor]

So lets see. When he exercised and ate right he lost weight.

When he stopped exercising and eating right he regained the weight.

Gee, who would have thought it

Quit shaming him you monster! Science made him fat!

 

[TechBoyJK]

So those with Thyroid disease are at fault, gotcha.

That's an exception that doesn't negate the rule.

 

[Murloc]

The social and genetic factors in this country overwhelmingly predispose the population to obesity.

economic inequality and ignorance is a failure of society, just like eating fries and coca cola is a failure of people. Both cause fatness, on a different level, and both are within your power to change.

Most fat people are not fat due to genetic factors. Drinking coca cola instead of water is a choice with no rationale and I see fat people doing it all the time. Not putting this kind of crap on the table for your kids to drink has 0 cost.

Genetic factors make some populations more prone to become fat, but not when they are 20 years old if they eat healthy.

Being germanic makes you more likely to be fat, but dutch or danish people are germanic as well and they are not fat.

 

[nehalem256]

Here is another fun story:

As the episode begins Chuck is 45 and weighs 693 pounds. He relates that his weight makes it so difficult for him to breathe, and he would rather be a dead man than living the rest of his life this way. After 30, he started putting the weight on gradually. In 2006, his wife was murdered and his life changed dramatically. She was his best friend, and the incident made him turn to food for comfort. He ate fast-food three times a day and lost all concept of his weight. Chuck is known as the barbeque expert among friends and members of his church. As he pulls into a drive-through, he orders a 9-piece fried chicken meal with an average of 2,090 calories.

He met his second wife, Nissa, when he was about 600 pounds. She has been overweight and did not judge him, as she had much in common with him. They adopted Nathan, who is two years old, but Nissa needs a husband, not someone she must take care of like a child. Intimacy is something they cannot share, which leaves Nissa lonely. As they drive to meet Dr. Now, she reminds him that this is no magic cure.

Chuck found Dr. Nowzaradan in Houston, who asked him tough questions. He warned him about the consequences of gaining his weight back after the surgery. He wants him to lose thirty pounds and then return as proof that he can change his eating habits. When they left the doctor’s office, he stopped at an all-you-can-eat buffet, “one last time.” Chuck usually eats about 10,000 calories a day; enough to feed five people.

http://www.examiner.com/article/my-600-lb-life-takes-viewers-on-supersized-chuck-s-story-on-tlc

Does the ability to shove 10,000 calories worth of food in your stomache without vomiting count as a medical condition? :sneaky:

 

[Thebobo]

Here is another fun story:


http://www.examiner.com/article/my-600-lb-life-takes-viewers-on-supersized-chuck-s-story-on-tlc

Does the ability to shove 10,000 calories worth of food in your stomache without vomiting count as a medical condition? :sneaky:

You are an asshole

 

[brycejones]

You are an asshole

So far at least he hasn't blamed it on same sex marriage or women......

We'll need to see how many pages into the thread we get before that happens.

 

[soulcougher73]

How dare i take personal responsibility for what i put in my mouth or how much exercise i get...

 

[Mursilis]

This. I read a lot of science and health stuff, and there have been a lot of fascinating articles about obesity over the last few years. It's not nearly as simple as the sanctimonious bigots want it to be.

For example, one study found that it's not just Americans who are fatter. Indeed, it's not even just people who've become fatter. It's also lab animals, many different species, that have become heavier over the decades, even when controlling for diet and exercise. They don't yet know why but speculate it may be certain food additives or the effects of artificial lighting.

I've also seen several articles discussing a link between gut bacteria and obesity. One study found that if they transferred gut bacteria from fat mice into thin mice, the thin mice started gaining weight, even though their diet and exercise remained the same. Other studies found people would often spontaneously start losing weight after procedures that substantially changed their gut bacteria.

Finally, I read that the extremely obese are metabolically different from those who merely carry a few extra pounds (like Mursilis). Diet and exercise works great for those with a few extra pounds. For the extremely obese, however, it works temporarily at best. Less than 1% of the extremely obese succeed with diet and exercise over the long term (either 3 years or 5 years, don't remember). From a medical perspective, such a complete failure rate would normally completely discredit the treatment, yet even many medical professionals cling to their old prejudices.

The bottom line is that while diet and exercise are always a great starting point, the problem with obesity is far more complex than that. Especially for the extremely obese, other treatments are necessary.


On a side note, it's interesting to note how this issue unites ignorant people across the political spectrum. Even the most die hard lefties who denounce bigotry based on ethnicity, color, or sexual preference, are happy to jump on board with smug, anti-fat bigotry. Educate yourselves, gentlemen. It's the best cure for bigotry.

First, I don't know if I'd call 45+ pounds "a few extra", but whatever. As for your cited studies, links please.

 

[rpanic]

Disgusting that this is even real, with all of the health problems that obesity causes. We live in a world being taken over by gluttony.