The Never Ending Saga...Validate My Gaming Rig Take III

[Starbuck1975]

A compareable drive would be the Western Digital Caviar RE2 series, however it carries a marginal price premium over the Maxtor drive and is marginally slower.

My last 4 drives have all been Maxtor's, and I have never had one fail, so I am fairly pleased with their quality from a product standpoint...I didnt realize that Maxtor had released a line of SATA drives comperable in price and performance to the Caviar...something to consider.

Well, a couple of reasons. First of all, a gaming rig's performance is going to revolve first and foremost around the GPU. Therefore, you should get the most powerful GPU that your budget will allow, all things considered. Right now, that means the X1900 or a GTX 512Mb, and seeing as availability and pricing on the GTX 512Mb is sketchy at best right now, I chose the X1900XT which is readily available at or below MSRP.

My current video card is an ATI All In Wonder...I had purchased it with the intent of using it for converting VHS home movies to DVD...unfortunately, the rest of my system and the software available at the time didn't fit the bill for what I had hoped to achieve...as there are numerous DVD studio software titles available now, I may want to go the All In Wonder route on the X1900GT.

Also, aren't there a series of MOBOs coming out that are socket 939 based on an ATI chipset...not that it matters, but matching an ATI video card to an ATI based MOBO solution might be a reasonable alternative.

 

[Acanthus]

I would not get an ATi series motherboard at this time, the chipset is brand new and there are some issues out there (read some reviews, dont take my word for it). ATi will be a serious competitor soon in the chipset market though, they have a new motherboard series coming soon.

As for the graphics card choice, there little if any difference as to what platform you use for your graphics card, as long as you dont intend upon using multicard solutions.

 

[Starbuck1975]

ATi will be a serious competitor soon in the chipset market though, they have a new motherboard series coming soon.

This is what I have read as well...the nforce4 ultra chipset is not without its own problems, and perhaps it is worth waiting for the ATI MOBOs to hit the market, paired with a X1900 video card.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

ATi will be a serious competitor soon in the chipset market though, they have a new motherboard series coming soon.

This is what I have read as well...the nforce4 ultra chipset is not without its own problems, and perhaps it is worth waiting for the ATI MOBOs to hit the market, paired with a X1900 video card.

If you keep waiting though, youll be waiting forever, we have Socket F AMDs coming, quad cores late this year, R600 and G80, inevitably more chipsets, and Intels completely redesigned from the ground up CPUs codenamed Conroe and Merom.

Then we have physics processors, anything VIA, SiS and ULi can push out thats still under the radar, faster DDRII, windows vista, and more...

Its just one of those things, you have to pull the trigger expecting the stuff to be outdated by the time you assemble it.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: bob4432
ePOWER??? get a seasonic, fsp, enermax or something known.

also, no reason for the xms ram, just get some value ram from the manf of your choice

[*] Worth Every Penny


[*] Worth Every Benjamin

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: bob4432
ePOWER??? get a seasonic, fsp, enermax or something known.

also, no reason for the xms ram, just get some value ram from the manf of your choice

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=ePo...g.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&sa=N&tab=wf

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
For numerous reasons, I keep delaying a decision to upgrade my gaming rig...the technology just always seems to move faster then my ability to keep up.

That being said, a while back I decided firmly on going with an Athlon 64 based system with an nforce4 ultra motherboard...the problem is that I never managed to decide on a motherboard that I felt comfortable with.

I am not an overclocker...I strictly play games...lots of them...and prefer a machine that runs stable at stock speeds...I also do some minor VHS to DVD (home movies) conversions, uploading of MP3s to my iPod, some basic photo editing in Adobe software, Microsoft Office applications, etc.

Basically a gaming rig with some home office requirements and a dab of multimedia work...nothing so strenuous where I need to multi-task, but as I tend to upgrade on a 3 year cycle, I like my systems to be somewhat future proof for gaming needs.

As for games, I play a mix of FPS, RPGs, and RTS...I dont play any online games like Battlefield or WoW, because MMOs are an evil addiction...that, and I am a sore loser.

Budget wise, I like to keep things in the $1000 to $1500 range.

Well, here is my latest build selection.
ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI X16
eVGA 256-P2-N516 Geforce 7800GT
ePOWER EPS12V 530Watts Power Supply
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester
CORSAIR XMS-3500LLPRO 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 433 (PC 3500)
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 ST3200826AS 200GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150

Right now I dont plan on using the SLI capabilities of the MOBO, but may choose to in the future.

This puts me at around $1300...ironically, my last proposed build comes in at around $1000, and that build didnt include an SLI motherboard, X2 processor, or high end RAM...for the extra $300, might as well go for the high end system.

I can already salvage the optical drives, case and sound card from my current system, as well as two additional IDE hard drives.

Thoughts?

I would recomend the Seagate 7200.9 160GB. It is a single platter drive, it has a higher ariel density than 7200.8 . Ironicly the 500GB 7200.9 has a lower ariel density with four 125GB platters. Other choices to recommend are the Hitachi T7K250 for its near raptor like performance.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148105

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822145088

 

[Bobthelost]

Originally posted by: Googer
I would recomend the Seagate 7200.9 160GB. It is a single platter drive, it has a higher ariel density than 7200.8 . Ironicly the 500GB 7200.9 has a lower ariel density with four 125GB platters. Other choices to recommend are the Hitachi T7K250 for its near raptor like performance.

Do you know what higher density means for gaming?

Nothing at all.

There was a rather inconclusive review posted on the Anandtech site yesterday that compared the 160 to other drives in it's range and it was a mediocre performer for everything except program load times, which were suspiciously low (my personal bet on why the review was pulled).

T7K250 for raptor like performance? A Raptor 36 maybe, the 250 is fast but not all that fast (slightly faster than the WD which would have been my recomendation). Recomending a HD because it's got greater density than the next drive and not making any comment to possible improvements is possibly the stupidest bit of epenis enhanching purchasing i've ever seen.

 

[TSS]

in the end it all depends on what you want.i chose 2 150gb raptors in raid 0 because ill be recording ingame movies, and when im not, i dont want any framedrops. at all. but for regular gaming a 250gb HDD should do fine. at the moment the 250's are in the sweetspot for price/gb's if you ask me. benchies vary, but none of the disks are really better/worse then another. each one seems to win a different benchmark (save for the raptor 150gb that seems to win all, but is expensive) so its best to go with your favorite brand.

since your a heavy gamer, the majority of your budget should go towards a good graphics card. a 7800gt is powerfull, but less future proof then say a 1900xt or a G71 (once it comes out). if your playing on a 1280x1024 res, or lower, the GT will do fine. on a 1600x1200 though i reccomend waiting for the 7900gt(x) or going with a 1900xt.

dualcore is important now and will only get more important in the future. Q4, COD2 are SMP aware, and more games are following. intel is pushing developers to use more then 1 core, and with their recent release of the 805 even budget systems are going dual core. you can save on it now, by getting a dual core and not upgrading for a while, or get a single core and buy a dual core anyway early next year. i'd pick the first option (actually did). if your planning on overclocking, get the opteron 165. its higher grade sillicon and will OC better. if you dont plan on OCing at all, go for the 3800+. 200mhz makes more difference then the cache does, and its a decent OCer might you ever decide on OCing anyway. should be able to get 2.4ghz easy.

as far as RAM goes, there isnt that much of a performance gap betweeen value and high performance ram. AMD's like low latancy so get the best timings possible, for a reasonable price. PC3200 since higher PC's dont give that much of a performance increase and most PC3200 ram has some OCing headroom.

anyways i'd go 3800+, 2GB value ram, 1900xt, 250/300gb HDD if my budget was around 1300-1500. luckely i had twice that so i just got the best of the best

 

[Starbuck1975]

anyways i'd go 3800+, 2GB value ram, 1900xt, 250/300gb HDD if my budget was around 1300-1500. luckely i had twice that so i just got the best of the best

I just looked at your build, and it seems like a reasonable mix of components well within budget...just out of curiosity, I assume you are a gamer...of the current slate of GPU and CPU strenuous games, how does your system fair...also, my typical build pattern is build a fast enough rig to last 3 years without an upgrade...my current system can barely run games like HL2, even with the graphic settings way down...it runs fine until there are lots of enemies on the screen, then it goes into stammer and sputter mode...but games that came out in the 2000 to 2003 time window run just fine, even on high graphics settings.

Also, if I go with the Radeon All in Wonder, it will save me having to get the Plextor USB video capture device currently on my wish list, which just saved me $200...unless you think it is better to have the video capture technology independent from the video card.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Bobthelost

Originally posted by: Googer
I would recomend the Seagate 7200.9 160GB. It is a single platter drive, it has a higher ariel density than 7200.8 . Ironicly the 500GB 7200.9 has a lower ariel density with four 125GB platters. Other choices to recommend are the Hitachi T7K250 for its near raptor like performance.

Do you know what higher density means for gaming?

Nothing at all.

There was a rather inconclusive review posted on the Anandtech site yesterday that compared the 160 to other drives in it's range and it was a mediocre performer for everything except program load times, which were suspiciously low (my personal bet on why the review was pulled).

T7K250 for raptor like performance? A Raptor 36 maybe, the 250 is fast but not all that fast (slightly faster than the WD which would have been my recomendation). Recomending a HD because it's got greater density than the next drive and not making any comment to possible improvements is possibly the stupidest bit of epenis enhanching purchasing i've ever seen.

I do agree that 7200.8 is the better drive over all.

Yes the 7200.9 is a slight disapointment. He seems to have his heart set on Seagate, so if he is going to buy one why not get a 7200.9 even thought the performance is disapointing the 5 year warrenty for the 7200.9 is not (vs 3 yr for 7200.8).

The WD has the highest number of I/O's for a 7200RPM drive but the T7K250 last time I checked wins or comes in a close second with the majority of the benchmarks including minimum transfer rates.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Given all the inputs from the last few posters, my build list would look something like the following:

KINGWIN KT-436WM
Soundblaster Audigy 2
Plextor PX-504A DVD Burner
Kenwood 72x CD-ROM
2x40GB Maxtor IDE drives

Now for the new components:
DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 Ultra-D/MSI NEO4 Platinum/Epox EP-9NPA+Ultra
Western Digital Caviar 250GB
ATI X1900XT
Enermax Liberty 500W
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester or Opteron 165
2x1GB OCZ PC 3200 Platinum Series Dual Channel Kit or 2x1GB Corsair ValueRAM
6xCooler Master 80mm R4-L8S-18SB Case Fans
SONY IDE DVD-ROM Drive Model DDU1615/B2s - OEM
PCI Video Capture Card (based on recommendations from Video forum)

Pretty much captures many of the recommendations on this thread...move away from SLI as I probably won't have a need for it with the X1900XT...decided to stick with the Caviar, as the comperable Maxtor drive apparently is not playing nice with nForce4...reviews around the web warn of this compatibility issue...still need to do more reading on the X2/Opteron advantages and disadvantages, and will probably go with either the ePox or MSI nforce4 ultra MOBO.

Right now the upgrade is priced at around $1400....may wait for the ATI card to come down in price a bit, as right now it is priced at a premium.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Well, I have yet to pull the trigger on my upgrade...I decided to wait for some more reviews to come in on the Radeon XPRESS 3200 boards...and for prices to stabilize a bit on the X1900XT cards. Also wanted to wait for more information to become available on AM2...since AM2/DDR2 is not going to provide a significant performance jump over Socket 939, I might as well upgrade now, understanding that when it comes time for my next upgrade, it will require a MOBO, RAM, processor swap regardless...my understanding is that AM2 will be short lived in terms of a viable upgrade path.

So, here is the new build list:

ASUS A8R32-MVP Deluxe
SAPPHIRE Radeon X1900XT 512MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card
ENERMAX Liberty ELT500AWT ATX12V 500W Power Supply
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester 1GHz HT Socket 939
OCZ 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Platinum
Western Digital Caviar SE WD2500JS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
ViewSonic VX2025WM Black-Silver 20.1" LCD monitor
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi

Will probably also throw in a Razer Plasma Diamondback & Razer Tarantula keyboard once it becomes available.

This upgrade does blow my budget by around $500. If I do scale back the system, I would keep everything the same except revert to an nforce4 ulta MOBO and an eVGA Geforce 7900GT card.

 

[Icepick]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
This upgrade does blow my budget by around $500. If I do scale back the system, I would keep everything the same except revert to an nforce4 ulta MOBO and an eVGA Geforce 7900GT card.

I would take this route. The motherboard alone will not make your system any faster and it's silly to blow your budget on the mobo. Just get a solid nf4-based board for around $100. Get the 7900GT for closer to the $300 price point. There will be very little noticeable performance difference between this and the premium Asus mobo and ATI vid card.

(BTW, LOL that this old thread has been revived .)

 

[Starbuck1975]

(BTW, LOL that this old thread has been revived .)

I always do this around build time...it typically takes me 6 months to a year to read through reviews and select components. The reason for this is largely that I have enough knowledge to perform a build, but not enough knowledge to troubleshoot any problems that may arise...so I typically look for the most stable component combinations I can find.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I would take this route. The motherboard alone will not make your system any faster and it's silly to blow your budget on the mobo. Just get a solid nf4-based board for around $100. Get the 7900GT for closer to the $300 price point. There will be very little noticeable performance difference between this and the premium Asus mobo and ATI vid card.

If I scale back the ASUS board to nforce4 ultra, I am looking at saving around $80.

Scaling back the ATI card to a 7900GT is around $200 savings.

Also, I might scale back the monitor to a Viewsonic VX922 19", which is another $100.

So I definitely have some options for bringing the system in under $1500...just have to decide if a 20.1" monitor and X1900XT is worth the extra $400.

 

[Icepick]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

(BTW, LOL that this old thread has been revived .)

I always do this around build time...it typically takes me 6 months to a year to read through reviews and select components. The reason for this is largely that I have enough knowledge to perform a build, but not enough knowledge to troubleshoot any problems that may arise...so I typically look for the most stable component combinations I can find.

Troubleshooting is not a problem. That's what you have us for

 

[Starbuck1975]

Troubleshooting is not a problem. That's what you have us for

You know, that was one of the main reasons that I held off on getting an nforce4 ultra board...the last time I did a build, Socket A was relatively new, and there were plenty of stable and highly recommended boards to choose from. The crop of nforce4 ultra boards all seemed to have their fair share of quirks, without there being a distinct winner.

Granted, bios revisions in the last 6 months have resolved most of those problems. If I do go nforce4 ultra, I will probably go with the MSI NEO4 Platinum...has the right mix of features and layout for my needs.

But the ASUS A8R32-MVP Deluxe does seem to be a very nice board, and actually comes very well reviewed. That, and given the hardware I intent to put into my system, I would be foolish not to experiment with overclocking...the A8R32-MVP has a suite of overclocking utilities that makes the process idiot proof for those of us not overly familiar with the ins and outs of overclocking.

 

[Howard]

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=40&threadid=1840154&enterthread=y

Expires tomorrow.

 

[Bobthelost]

Still not built yet! :|

Build list looks good, but i'd drop the dual card board for the expox 9 board, much cheaper and still let's you overclock happily.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Expires tomorrow.

I just applied the coupon, and it came out to $391.35 with tax and shipping.

I may just wait for the 2007 to go on sale, as Dell promotions seem to run fairly frequently...that, or just go for the Viewsonic 2025wm for $20 more.

 

[Icepick]

Whatever you decide to go with please post back in this thread when you finally do make the purchase. I'm curious to see what you settle on after all the effort you put into the decision-making process. I remember reading this thread in january and the one you made before that, too. This has become like a modern-day Oddessy.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Whatever you decide to go with please post back in this thread when you finally do make the purchase. I'm curious to see what you settle on after all the effort you put into the decision-making process. I remember reading this thread in january and the one you made before that, too. This has become like a modern-day Oddessy.

Fair enough...to be fair, I am terribly indecisive when it comes to making large scale purchases, and rarely commit on impulse.

My first build, back in 2000, took nearly 18 months of research, reading and bargain shopping...but that system gave me 3 solid years of gaming performance...my last upgrade was actually a bit easier given that the offerings for Socket A were quite stable.

This upgrade decision point hit in the middle of a lot going on in the hardware arena...single core vs. dual core...socket 939 vs. AM2...nVidia vs. ATI...Abit, the MOBO manufacturer I have gone with in the past, hitting financial woes...LCD or CRT on a new monitor.

I guess for some, having so many choices is a good thing...for people like me, sometimes being forced into one upgrade path makes things a lot easier.

 

[Starbuck1975]

After reading back through the thread, many people recommended that I look at Opteron 165 dual core as an alternative to Athlon 64 X2. As it has been a few months, I was looking through the various Opteron offerings on Newegg, and am not sure which is the best bang for the buck option.

I assume it is the Opteron 165 Denmark?

As far as my other components go, I think I have a suitable build list now:

ASUS A8R32-MVP. I know Crossfire may be overkill at this point, but I do like the features on this board, and it comes very well reviewed for stability, even as an enthusiast overclocking board. As I want to start experimenting with overclocking, this might be a good board for me. Plus one or two years from now, it gives me the option of slapping in another X1900XT once prices come down a bit.

Video card, I decided to go with a Radeon X1900XT.

Power supply is still the Enermax Liberty 500W.

Decided to listen to most of your recommendations, and go with ValueRam...going to find the best low latency value RAM, probably Corsair ValueSelect (2x1GB).

Sticking with the WD Caviar SE 250GB...sorry Raptor fans.

For the processor, as I am planning to overclock a bit, Opteron is probably the way to go...just need a recommendation on which core to go with.

And for monitors, still reading up on the latest Spring releases...if I decide to go 19", then definitely the Viewsonic VX922...if I decide to go 20.1", then its a toss up between the Viewsonic 2025wm and Dell 2007wfp.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
After reading back through the thread, many people recommended that I look at Opteron 165 dual core as an alternative to Athlon 64 X2. As it has been a few months, I was looking through the various Opteron offerings on Newegg, and am not sure which is the best bang for the buck option.

I assume it is the Opteron 165 Denmark?

As far as my other components go, I think I have a suitable build list now:

ASUS A8R32-MVP. I know Crossfire may be overkill at this point, but I do like the features on this board, and it comes very well reviewed for stability, even as an enthusiast overclocking board. As I want to start experimenting with overclocking, this might be a good board for me. Plus one or two years from now, it gives me the option of slapping in another X1900XT once prices come down a bit.

Video card, I decided to go with a Radeon X1900XT.

Power supply is still the Enermax Liberty 500W.

Decided to listen to most of your recommendations, and go with ValueRam...going to find the best low latency value RAM, probably Corsair ValueSelect (2x1GB).

Sticking with the WD Caviar SE 250GB...sorry Raptor fans.

For the processor, as I am planning to overclock a bit, Opteron is probably the way to go...just need a recommendation on which core to go with.

And for monitors, still reading up on the latest Spring releases...if I decide to go 19", then definitely the Viewsonic VX922...if I decide to go 20.1", then its a toss up between the Viewsonic 2025wm and Dell 2007wfp.

You might be better served with a Samsung SpinPoint P120 or Hitachi T7K250. The Wd Caviar did not fare too well in the performance tests. For the PSU, enermax is an overated and undersized unit, a Industrial Grade Zippy would be the better budget choice .


But you are right when it comes to RAM, standard ram is the smart way to go.