The Never Ending Saga...Validate My Gaming Rig Take III

[Starbuck1975]

Antec's quality really isn't as good as people think. It's still among the "good" brands, but there are much better options for the price. The $50 Fortron 450W is excellent, but if you want a bit more juice, there's a really powerful 550W Sparkle for about $105 on Newegg. It has 36A on a single +12V rail, which is more flexible than dual +12V rails. Enermax also makes some excellent PSU's in the $70-$100 price range.

Quite true, although the Antec TruePower II 550W is receiving strong reviews across the board on NewEgg.

And about the Neo4 Platinum. I used it straight out of the box. It was my first build, and it went very smoothly with no problems at all. Overclocking was very easy on it, and I love the RAID 5 support.

On the motherboard forum, the thread dedicated to the MSI NEO4 Platinum is riddled with user problems...people either love it or are having nightmares...although at this point in the game, perhaps most of the bios and user issues have been resolved to the extent that I can query on any issues I might have.

 

[Starbuck1975]

After doing some more reading on motherboards, I decided to take another stab at a build list...this would be another option.

MSI K8N Diamond Plus
eVGA 256-P2-N516 Geforce 7800GT
SPARKLE FSP550PLG-SLI ATX12V/ EPS12V 550W Power Supply
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Dual Core Processor
OCZ 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Platinum
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

 

[kd2777]

Well first off let me say I am a hardware whore.

I have owned the ASUS A8N-SLI Premium and deluxe. The SLI LANPARTY and the SLI EPOX, and the MSI Diamond. Like I said I am a hardware whore. However about 5 months ago I read an AnandTech article about the Jetway motherboard and thought I would give it a try... I haven't switched yet, which is crazy coming from me. Linky. I didn't think I would ever try it, because of it not being a big name, but just go through the article. It has some amazing specs and benchmarks. Couple that with it being 120 at newegg, and you have a winner. It is also the only board I have ever had that I didn't have to do anything to when I set it up. Another really nice thing about this board is you can get it here free (well almost free) Linky. It is a eVGA branded board but it is the same board, I think a different color PCB though.

I also went with the G. Skil 2GB RAM kit, AnandTech just did a review on it in their 2GB kit roundup and liked it, however if you ask me my favorite RAM it would be the OCZ plat, that you picked out. I went with the g. Skil because it uses the same RAM modules the OCZ Plat uses and at the time was about 40 bucks cheaper, but now it is more expensive than the Plat so I would go with the OCZ

I like your CPU pick, I use the 3500, but it is because I haven't jumped to dual core yet.

I like your PSU, but for the money I like the SeaSonic a bit more. Linky. I have used it for 8 or 9 months now with no complaints at all. It is completely silent and I've noticed no voltage problems at all.

I use the same video card and like it a lot. It plays all the games I want it to, CS:S, DOD:S, FARCRY, and BF2. And if you want this card I suggest the 349 combo listed above, it cost 50 bucks more than the stand alone card, but with the motherboard it makes it a steal.... because I will guarantee you will not be disappointed in the motherboard.

350 eVGA combo
125 SeaSonic PSU (plus 10 MIR)
240 OCZ RAM (Plus 40 MIR)
110 WD HDD
313 AMD 3800 X2

1138 Total (plus 50 in rebates)

If I had a budget like yours and saved some money on the Motherboard I would look at the 4400 x2. You jump up to 2.2GHz and 1 mb cache per core (2mb total). If you did that you total would come to:

350 eVGA combo
125 SeaSonic PSU
240 OCZ RAM
110 WD HDD
470 4400 X2

1295 Total plus 50 MIR = $1245

So at this price you maybe able to get you a nice DVD burner or something if you do have it and still be under the 1300 mark after rebate. Or you might want to pick up a 75 dollar Audigy 2 zs sound card if you don't have a nice one. Who knows.

My main point would be: get the eVGA combo if you are getting the eVGA 7800GT, because that motherboard is a beast, I love it, and so did the AnandTech review. With the money saved you can up the PSU and the CPU and still stay on budget or save the money for a second 7800GT down the road.

kd


ps sorry for the book

 

[Starbuck1975]

No, thanks for all of the inputs...your comments were definitely helpful, particularly with regards to the combo board packaged with the eVGA card...user reviews have been fairly positive across the board for this package deal, although I haven't encountered much discussion on it here at AnandTech...may have to do a bit more research, but your comments definitely guided me a bit more in my decision.

 

[kd2777]

Newegg reviews are good and all, but you need to somewhat take them with a grain off salt. For example I don't think I have ever filed one out, and I would have to think I am not alone. As for a review on the board, the link to the AnandTech review of the Jetway is a review of the board, because it is the board. Jetway made it for eVGA. It is identical in every way except for the PCB, IIRC; however I can't remember the color.

kd

 

[McRhea]

Starbuck1975,

What have you decided on as your final build? I ask because I use my computer in a manner very similar to yours, and I'm also on an identical budget (1.5K max).

Also, are you planning on getting most of your stuff from newegg?

Thanks

 

[Starbuck1975]

I always purchase from NewEgg...that much is a given.

Haven't really decided on all of the components yet...mainly the MOBO and processor combo, which needless to say is a pretty big "IF"

On the MOBO side, I can go with a vanilla nforce4 ultra board...Asus, MSI, ePox or DFI...unfortunately, none of those boards really excite me.

Then there are the SLI counterparts to those same boards...but I don't necessarily require SLI, even though feature and stability wise my perception is that they are better MOBOs...the two leaders for me right now are the ASUS A8N32 SLI Deluxe or MSI K8N Diamond Plus...of course this ups my price.

RAM, I will go with 2x1GB dual channel memory...either OCZ Platinum or Corsair Value Select.

Already set on the eVGA 7800GT.

Power supply will be at least 500W...brand will decide largely on MOBO compatibility.

Already set on the Cavier 250GB hard drive.

On the processor side, I can go single core Athlon 64 or X2...if I go single core, I am going San Diego 4000...on the X2 side, 3800.

Also throwing in a USB Plextor video capturing device so I can convert home movies from VHS to DVD.

The price differential on any combination of the above components is $1000 to $1400...all within my budget range.

I am salvaging a Plextor DVD burner and Kenwood CD-ROM from my current system...also using my Kingwin KT-436 case, but with replacement fans...depending on the MOBO...I have a SB Audigy 2 I can salvage...and two Maxtor IDE drives I may use as backup storage.

 

[Agent11]

I would rethink not going SLI, thats your future proofing.
You can just get another card and SLI it giving you a performance boost mid way between your next upgrade, extending the life and performance of your build.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I would rethink not going SLI, thats your future proofing.
You can just get another card and SLI it giving you a performance boost mid way between your next upgrade, extending the life and performance of your build.

More so then say going X2 on the processor?

 

[Starbuck1975]

shameless bump

 

[Agent11]

X2 is good, but games require gpu power. . being able to throw in a second gpu when your system starts to get slugish will make all the differance.

Since your motherboard supports it why not go sata2?
There isnt even much of a price difference.

 

[Starbuck1975]

X2 is good, but games require gpu power. . being able to throw in a second gpu when your system starts to get slugish will make all the differance.

Not sure what you are recommending here.

Since your motherboard supports it why not go sata2?
There isnt even much of a price difference.

I was planning on getting a WD Cavier...I think that meets your recommendation here?

 

[unbot]

i think he's saying get SLI so you can add another card later as an upgrade. i'm quite a n00b at all this but i've also been researching a new build so it's kinda funny cause i'm facing similar questions but here's the impression i get (please remember these are opinions only and what i've gathered from reading threads).

1. SLI may not be a good upgrade path. i think i even read this on an anandtech article. when you're ready to upgrade in a year or two, will you want to drop money on a 1-2yr old card when you're likely to get much more performance on a single card upgrade for maybe a little more? i dunno...

evga 7800gt is definitely highly recommended. be prepared as i hear the stock fan is not the quietest thing around though.

2. Fortron 450W PSU seems to be highly recommended at the $50 mark. Seasonic S12-500W highly recommended for efficiency and low noise but at a higher cost. My 5yr old Antec PSU that came with my case is still kicking so hopefully they still make good PSUs, but if i were to buy one right now, i probably would still go Fortron/Seasonic.

3. I've also been debating the Epox board you mentioned but have heard USB 2 issues (mainly involving large data transfers like external HD), but that may not be completely board related. Scares me nonetheless but from all the good things i hear of this board, i'm may take the risk.
DFI i hear is really tweakable so it's great for overclocking but may require some reading to really take advantage of it. i hear it's picky on RAM too? i personally am lazy so it wouldn't work well for me.

4. x2 or Opteron. I'm having the same debate, although prices for Optys have supposedly gone up while x2 are dropping (at least for the x2 3800 and opty 165) so this may make your decision easier. Opty's are supposedly very stable at overclocking (but supposedly generates more heat at stock voltage?), but x2 are supposedly no slouch either.

5. Corsair valueram probably is fine. Timings help but probably will not translate much to real world performance increases. Tough call since pricing differences can be only say $30-70 but still may be a better idea to spend that $30-70 elsewhere.


Most importantly, have fun with your build!

 

[Rumple]

Probably a stupid question but i have the Corsair Value Ram. I have 2 1 gig sticks. I am upgrading to the Epox board and am wondering if this will run in dual channel? Do i have to have specific ram to run in dual channel or just 2 of the same modules? Or do i even need to worry about this?

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: CalamitySymphony

Originally posted by: t3h l337 n3wb
Don't waste $330 on a Raptor. You would get much better performance by spending the money elsewhere. Current gen SATA drives with 16MB cache are almost as fast as the 74GB Raptor, so you shouldn't get that either. Raptors are just a waste of money unless you have like a $5000 budget and already have SLI'd 7800GTX's, Vapochill cooling, 2405FPW, $1000 sound system, etc. Don't waste your money on an excellent CPU and make it stay at stock speeds. Overclocking is very easy, and the Opteron 165 has double the cache of the 3800+ anyways, so it'll make up for its 200mhz less clock speed.

NOTHING MATCHES THE RAPTOR in the PRICE RANGE.

Once you get that through your head, we are talking about the NEW generation 150GB Raptor. Read some reviews before spewing.

The only thing that you can do better than the 150GB Raptor is Enterprise level SCSI. And that will cost you even more for less GBs.

Raptor is a must to any fast system. If you compare two systems side by side, the FASTER running system is the one with the FASTER HD. EVEN with other specs are lower. (assuming RAM is sufficient of course).

Anyway, its your money. HD performance should be high on everyone's list, (some people just don't understand that its probably the ONLY significant bottleneck is modern systems).

they really arent that great bang/buck wise, hell youd be better of raid 5ing 4 cheaper drives if you want fast load times.

 

[unbot]

rumple,

2 of the same sticks should be fine. just make sure you put it into the correct 2 slots. they often times are color coded on the mobo.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Well this is what I have loaded on my wishlist on newegg at the moment:

• MSI K8N Diamond Plus Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI X16 ATX AMD Motherboard

• eVGA 256-P2-N516 Geforce 7800GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card

• ENERMAX Liberty ELT500AWT ATX12V 500W Power Supply

• AMD Athlon 64 4000+ San Diego 1GHz FSB Socket 939

• OCZ 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Platinum System Memory Model

• Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

My thought processes on these selections:
Pending reviews on the MSI K8N Diamond, this board has the feature rich design typical of SLI boards, but at a price point that is not terribly higher then vanilla nForce4 boards.

The 7800GT is simply a given as it hits the sweet spot for performance and price.

I went with the Enermax Liberty because I do prefer PSUs that have cable management...plus the Enermax Liberty has shielded cables, a quiet fan design and is SLI ready...and is a fairly reputable company.

I decided to go single core as I do not perceive a need to multi-task at this time...by the time software and technology catches up to the capabilities of dual core, it will probably be time for another upgrade anyway.

I went with the OCZ Platinum because again, it hits that sweet spot of performance and price...somewhere between value RAM and premium RAM.

Chose the Cavier on the hard drive only because it seems to be highly recommended across the board...I only intend to use SATA, not RAID.

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

I don't understand why you don't get the free Jetway motherboard. It's a great board, and the Anandtech review proves it. Nice choice on the PSU. The Liberty is a great PSU in that price range, and Enermax is a tried and true brand. Go with the Opteron 165. Definitely go dual core. I'd say that within 6 months, many programs will be SMP aware (can take advantage of the 2nd core). Quake 4 and Call of Duty 2 already have SMP patches, and many more games will follow soon. Get the Opteron 165. It has double the cache of a 3800+, it overclocks better, and it costs about the same.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Ugh...have discovered a few internet rumors that suggest Abit may be going kaplunk. Build changes as follows:

Ok kids, I think I finally have a build list. What I am salvaging from my current rig:

KINGWIN KT-436WM
Soundblaster Audigy 2
Plextor PX-504A DVD Burner
Kenwood 72x CD-ROM
2x40GB Maxtor IDE drives

Now for the new components:
DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 Ultra-D/MSI NEO4 Platinum/Epox EP-9NPA+Ultra
eVGA 7800GT
Antec TruePower II 550V
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester
2x1GB OCZ PC 3200 Platinum Series Dual Channel Kit
Saitek Eclipse Keyboard
Logitech G5 Laser Mouse
6xCooler Master 80mm R4-L8S-18SB Case Fans
PLEXTOR PX-TV402U-NA ConvertX PVR Device
SONY IDE DVD-ROM Drive Model DDU1615/B2s - OEM

Just need help deciding on a MOBO...yet again.

Your overspending a little on ram, other than that the build is perfect.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Get the Opteron 165. It has double the cache of a 3800+, it overclocks better, and it costs about the same.

I decided to do a comparison on newegg of the 64 X2 3800+ Manchester, Opteron 165 and 64San Diego 4000+, as they are all at the same price point.

Operating Frequency:
X2: 2.0 GHz
Opteron: 1.8 GHz
64: 2.4 GHz

L1 Cache
X2: 128KB+128KB
Opteron: 64KB+64KB
64: 64KB+64KB

L2 Cache
X2: 2 x 512KB
Opteron: 2 x 1MB
64: 1MB

I honestly don't see much of a distinction between these three processors, as I am not sure what the distinction is between the operating frequency, L1 cache and L2 cache in terms of performance...anyone care to explain what those numbers mean, and what type of systems they tend to benefit most.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Get the Opteron 165. It has double the cache of a 3800+, it overclocks better, and it costs about the same.

I decided to do a comparison on newegg of the 64 X2 3800+ Manchester, Opteron 165 and 64San Diego 4000+, as they are all at the same price point.

Operating Frequency:
X2: 2.0 GHz
Opteron: 1.8 GHz
64: 2.4 GHz

L1 Cache
X2: 128KB+128KB
Opteron: 64KB+64KB
64: 64KB+64KB

L2 Cache
X2: 2 x 512KB
Opteron: 2 x 1MB
64: 1MB

I honestly don't see much of a distinction between these three processors, as I am not sure what the distinction is between the operating frequency, L1 cache and L2 cache in terms of performance...anyone care to explain what those numbers mean, and what type of systems they tend to benefit most.

The operating frequency performance scales near linearly in single thread programs (programs that do not take advantage of multicore), so you can tell what to expect there.

Dont forget that the 4000+ is a single core and will not see any benefit at all from SMP aware software or games, it will also be considerably poorer at multitasking if you are doing things that are cpu intensive like encoding video or sound, or running games in windowed mode while doing other things.

As far as cache goes, its 0-5% more performance depending on the application on the Athlon 64/X2/Opteron if you go from 512k to 1MB L2 cache.

 

[Boztech]

Personally, this is what I'd do with your budget..

Screenshot

The emphasis should be on a fast GPU, dual core, and a fast, reliable hard drive. Aside from that, you don't have to spend a ton of money to get a reliable motherboard and RAM.

 

[Starbuck1975]

As far as cache goes, its 0-5% more performance depending on the application on the Athlon 64/X2/Opteron if you go from 512k to 1MB L2 cache.

So of the two dual core options, is the Opteron 165 the better choice even though it has a lower operating frequency then the X2 3800+

Also, along the Opteron line, there are obviously faster processors at a higher price point...what range of Opteron processors would you recommend beyond the 165.

Personally, this is what I'd do with your budget..

Interesting that you went with an ATI option over a GEFORCE 7800GT on the video card...any particular reason?

Also, what's the advantage of going with the Maxtor Maxline III over the WD Caviar?

 

[Boztech]

Interesting that you went with an ATI option over a GEFORCE 7800GT on the video card...any particular reason?

Well, a couple of reasons. First of all, a gaming rig's performance is going to revolve first and foremost around the GPU. Therefore, you should get the most powerful GPU that your budget will allow, all things considered. Right now, that means the X1900 or a GTX 512Mb, and seeing as availability and pricing on the GTX 512Mb is sketchy at best right now, I chose the X1900XT which is readily available at or below MSRP.

Also, what's the advantage of going with the Maxtor Maxline III over the WD Caviar?

Again, a couple of reasons. The drive I chose is essentially the same as the DiamondMax 10 series drives, and the DiamondMax 10 drives along with the Hitachi T7K250 series are currently the two fastest 7200 RPM consumer drives available. The Maxline denomination basically gives you two extra years (Five years total) on the warranty for a negligable price premium.

A compareable drive would be the Western Digital Caviar RE2 series, however it carries a marginal price premium over the Maxtor drive and is marginally slower.

 

[Boztech]

Edit: Double post