The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.

[theeedude]

When the guys is saying this in this thread :

Senseamp:
"Not without a minimum wage increase that guarantees that all competitors raise their wages as well."

And in a different thread:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2363762&highlight=minimum+wage

Senseamp:
"If McDonalds can run with fewer workers with automation, they can afford to pay those workers more."


Now lets juxtapose that with these :

From this thread -

Senseamp :
"Why don't you go to a farmer, and ask him how fast you'd need to pick fruit for him to be able to pay you $20/hr without raising produce prices."

And in this other thread :

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=26798549&highlight=minimum+wage#post26798549

Senseamp :
"I will just tip less to offset higher cost of food to pay for minimum wages.
I liked not tipping when I went to Japan and China."


He's the true face of the Democrats.

They aren't liberals, they're neo-fascists.

If you came up with a fruit picking technique that would allow farm workers to be paid $20 per hour, you should share it. So far the only thing Republicans have come up with is raising prices on consumers, who already can barely afford fresh fruits and vegetables, in a hope that it will entice Americans to work in the fields all day. So we are going to have millions of poor Americans experience the negative health effects from not being able to afford fresh fruits and vegetables, just to make some people who don't like illegals happy. No thanks, buddy.

 

[theeedude]

Guess we need to bring in more illegal immigrants to stock shelves. We wouldn't want Americans to go without quality food.

Right nonsenseamp?

If you are asking if I think Americans should go without quality food, then the answer is no.

 

[5150Joker]

New article on Yahoo backs up what NYT wrote: http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-...expensive-for-the-middle-class-215417616.html

Walmart is hardly the only retailer struggling. Mass-market chains such as J.C. Penney (JCP), Best Buy (BBY), Target (TGT), the Gap (GPS) and even mighty Amazon (AMZN) turned in disappointing results for the last three months of 2013, indicating a kind of retail recession that lingers long after the official recession ended in the middle of 2009.

So who’s doing well enough to pull retail sales numbers up to relatively healthy levels? Mostly high-end merchants such as Nordstrom (JWN) and Michael Kors (KORS), luxury automakers such as BMW and Mercedes, upscale appliance manufacturers including General Electric (GE) and even yacht manufacturers. As the New York Times noted in a recent article, demand is much stronger for GE’s top-of-the-line dishwashers and refrigerators than for cheaper, mass-market models. And a modest boom in home remodeling is being driven by a small portion of homeowners who have both cash and home equity, a combo many mortgage holders can only envy.

There’s not much real-time data that breaks down spending by income category, though there are plenty of proxy measures showing the top 10% or perhaps 20% of earners may account for the whole increase in retail sales during the past couple of years. “It’s a bifurcated society,” says Brusuelas. “The upper end still has access to credit. They’re making strong income gains and doing fine. But there’s been a fairly steep downturn among middle- and lower-income groups.”

Game set match for a class war coming to you soon in the US.

 

[Matt1970]

New article on Yahoo backs up what NYT wrote: http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-...expensive-for-the-middle-class-215417616.html



Game set match for a class war coming to you soon in the US.

Your last one didn't go so well. All you managed to do was sit in rape tents unbathed for weeks while plotting to blow up bridges.

 

[Nebor]

When the guys is saying this in this thread :

Senseamp:
"Not without a minimum wage increase that guarantees that all competitors raise their wages as well."

And in a different thread:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2363762&highlight=minimum+wage

Senseamp:
"If McDonalds can run with fewer workers with automation, they can afford to pay those workers more."


Now lets juxtapose that with these :

From this thread -

Senseamp :
"Why don't you go to a farmer, and ask him how fast you'd need to pick fruit for him to be able to pay you $20/hr without raising produce prices."

And in this other thread :

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=26798549&highlight=minimum+wage#post26798549

Senseamp :
"I will just tip less to offset higher cost of food to pay for minimum wages.
I liked not tipping when I went to Japan and China."


He's the true face of the Democrats.

They aren't liberals, they're neo-fascists.

Wow, you've got his number.

 

[BoberFett]

The ownage of senseamp is strong in this thread. Even is his usual cohorts are keeping their distance from that smelly shitbag.

 

[theeedude]

The ownage of senseamp is strong in this thread. Even is his usual cohorts are keeping their distance from that smelly shitbag.

Weak profanity laden personal attacks are a sign of intellectual surrender, not ownage. Typical rookie mistake.

 

[Nebor]

Weak profanity laden personal attacks are a sign of intellectual surrender, not ownage. Typical rookie mistake.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but it seems like your departure from your typical left-leaning stance has left you looking a bit silly.

 

[Zaap]

Law was passed in 2011, acres harvested collapsed. Judges put law on hold, acres harvested rebounded. Now, you may say, look more value, but that value is from higher prices on consumers, not higher production.
Thanks for making my point.

So basically, they made more money, with fewer workers, and less production?

Businesses just ***HATE IT*** when that happens, don't they?


Also, you're wrong. (As usual) there were similar squeals and gnashing of teeth in 2012 about immigration laws in Georgia:
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/04/13/464152/georgia-farmers-worker-shortage-immigrants/

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news...eorgia-alabama-farmers-immigration/52699204/1

But of course we see by shady28's post that 2012 was suuuuch a rotten year for harvests- record profits aside.


Oh and look at that, they had to resort to *LEGAL* labor, such as using legal guest-worker programs. OH BOO HOO!!! WE WANT OUR SLAVES BACK!!!!!!

 

[theeedude]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but it seems like your departure from your typical left-leaning stance has left you looking a bit silly.

What departure would that be?

 

[5150Joker]

Your last one didn't go so well. All you managed to do was sit in rape tents unbathed for weeks while plotting to blow up bridges.

I'm not an activist but more an observer of what is likely to come. Better stock up on the duct tape and lube buddy.

 

[Matt1970]

I'm not an activist but more an observer of what is likely to come. Better stock up on the duct tape and lube buddy.

Most people realize how catastrophically bad a class war would be for everyone. At least those with half a brain do.

 

[glenn1]

Most people realize how catastrophically bad a class war would be for everyone. At least those with half a brain do.

You overlook that "catastrophically bad" means different things to different classes. For the poor, "bad" likely means dead. For the middle class it's having their possessions and neighborhoods burned to ashes, savings obliterated, and civil rights shredded. For the rich, it means needing to file an insurance claim for some broken stuff, hiring some new unskilled minimum wage worker replacements, and needing to change their living plans for a few months to stay in Bora Bora rather than Boston.

 

[5150Joker]

Most people realize how catastrophically bad a class war would be for everyone. At least those with half a brain do.

You're the only one inferring that those of us commenting on a likely scenario are for it. Of course it's catastrophic but seems inevitable given the growing class divide and bad policy making of the government.

As an example of how bad it will be, just look at the animals during black Friday that fight over low value trinkets. Now imagine social benefits getting scaled back even further in addition to the lack of jobs. These same "people" will point their fangs at the rich and that's when a full scale class war will break out and it won't be pretty.

 

[shady28]

You're the only one inferring that those of us commenting on a likely scenario are for it. Of course it's catastrophic but seems inevitable given the growing class divide and bad policy making of the government.

As an example of how bad it will be, just look at the animals during black Friday that fight over low value trinkets. Now imagine social benefits getting scaled back even further in addition to the lack of jobs. These same "people" will point their fangs at the rich and that's when a full scale class war will break out and it won't be pretty.

You know, there's a lot of historical precedent for this but the circumstances don't quite add up. Not yet.

The most commonly referred to instance is the French Revolution in the mid 1800s. That's classic, complete with the wholesale beheading of the aristocracy. But, that wasn't a republic.

Probably the best analogy is Nazi Germany. A republic, which willingly converts itself to a dictatorship, in order to evict the "evil bankers" and Jews who pillaged the wealth and well-being of its citizens.

Subtract the racism from the Nazis, and I could easily see the USA going that direction. On the one hand we accept GWB trying to force Ashcroft to reverse a justice department ruling on Stellar Winds domestic intelligence program; Ashcroft later resigned. Then his successor resigned for warrantless surveillance and torture / interrogation scandals. Meanwhile congress passes the Patriot Act, using it to erode the constitution.

Now we have a president (Obama) who does all of the same things, but it's perceived as legal now, and recently gets quoted as saying he wants to enforce "laws" that he decrees by executive order without congress.

So we are rapidly heading in the same direction as Germany went. The final straw that will convince people to completely give up all of their rights will likely be in the form of another economic collapse, more severe than the last. People will want the government to help them, and they will want a villain.

I suspect the class warfare in the US will look more like a concentration camp, not a guillotine.

 

[5150Joker]

You know, there's a lot of historical precedent for this but the circumstances don't quite add up. Not yet.

The most commonly referred to instance is the French Revolution in the mid 1800s. That's classic, complete with the wholesale beheading of the aristocracy. But, that wasn't a republic.

Probably the best analogy is Nazi Germany. A republic, which willingly converts itself to a dictatorship, in order to evict the "evil bankers" and Jews who pillaged the wealth and well-being of its citizens.

Subtract the racism from the Nazis, and I could easily see the USA going that direction. On the one hand we accept GWB trying to force Ashcroft to reverse a justice department ruling on Stellar Winds domestic intelligence program; Ashcroft later resigned. Then his successor resigned for warrantless surveillance and torture / interrogation scandals. Meanwhile congress passes the Patriot Act, using it to erode the constitution.

Now we have a president (Obama) who does all of the same things, but it's perceived as legal now, and recently gets quoted as saying he wants to enforce "laws" that he decrees by executive order without congress.

So we are rapidly heading in the same direction as Germany went. The final straw that will convince people to completely give up all of their rights will likely be in the form of another economic collapse, more severe than the last. People will want the government to help them, and they will want a villain.

I suspect the class warfare in the US will look more like a concentration camp, not a guillotine.

Given how malleable the average voter's mind is via media, you may be right. However, with the internet being so pervasive and not entirely under NSA control (yet), I suspect there will be a lot more than a singular target. Plus with the average WalMart shopper having his/her benefits cut and no jobs, they will start rioting. Once the national guard is brought in to quell the riots, more will break out and it will snowball from there IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if the rich panicked and started lobbying their puppets in Congress to start issuing emergency funds to keep the rioters on the government teat a bit longer while they make plans to shift their money out of here.

 

[BoberFett]

Ha, you think people will riot and it will affect the wealthy? When poor people riot, they destroy their own neighborhoods.

 

[glenn1]

Given how malleable the average voter's mind is via media, you may be right. However, with the internet being so pervasive and not entirely under NSA control (yet), I suspect there will be a lot more than a singular target. Plus with the average WalMart shopper having his/her benefits cut and no jobs, they will start rioting. Once the national guard is brought in to quell the riots, more will break out and it will snowball from there IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if the rich panicked and started lobbying their puppets in Congress to start issuing emergency funds to keep the rioters on the government teat a bit longer while they make plans to shift their money out of here.

LOL, wow what a delusion. The rich demand "emergency funds" for rioters? Unless the riots spill out of the slums that's a fantasy, and if they do the only lobbying will be to send in the national guard for a Kent State on the rioters.

 

[5150Joker]

Ha, you think people will riot and it will affect the wealthy? When poor people riot, they destroy their own neighborhoods.

I'm not talking about small scale riots limited to Detroit or Los Angeles ghettos but across the US and much more widespread when the shit hits the fan.

 

[BoberFett]

I'm not talking about small scale riots limited to Detroit or Los Angeles ghettos but across the US and much more widespread when the shit hits the fan.

Oh, so you think these riots will be coordinated centrally, and people will be told where to riot by Riot High Command?

 

[Matt1970]

You're the only one inferring that those of us commenting on a likely scenario are for it. Of course it's catastrophic but seems inevitable given the growing class divide and bad policy making of the government.

As an example of how bad it will be, just look at the animals during black Friday that fight over low value trinkets. Now imagine social benefits getting scaled back even further in addition to the lack of jobs. These same "people" will point their fangs at the rich and that's when a full scale class war will break out and it won't be pretty.

That's a good example. You have seen what they will do to save a buck. Those are the same ones who slowly but surely or the past decades chose cheap imported crap over American made product to save a buck and the end result is it's now nearly impossible to find American made stuff. Yes, they will point their fangs at the rich, and the rich shoulder some blame here, but the majority or it lies on the consumer. It's not like one day all the made in USA stuff vanished off the shelf and we were left with no other choices. It's just much easier to blame others than it is yourself.

 

[glenn1]

That's a good example. You have seen what they will do to save a buck. Those are the same ones who slowly but surely or the past decades chose cheap imported crap over American made product to save a buck and the end result is it's now nearly impossible to find American made stuff. Yes, they will point their fangs at the rich, and the rich shoulder some blame here, but the majority or it lies on the consumer. It's not like one day all the made in USA stuff vanished off the shelf and we were left with no other choices. It's just much easier to blame others than it is yourself.

Yeah, because we know American companies and workers never, ever put out lousy products and foreign companies never produce superior competing products. There was no reason whatsoever why people bought Hondas and Toyotas rather than Ford Pintos and Chevy Vegas.

 

[5150Joker]

Oh, so you think these riots will be coordinated centrally, and people will be told where to riot by Riot High Command?

Ever heard of social media? Doesn't have to be some "central command" coordinating it, just enough pissed off people with a common hatred for the rich is enough to stoke the flames.

 

[glenn1]

Ever heard of social media? Doesn't have to be some "central command" coordinating it, just enough pissed off people with a common hatred for the rich is enough to stoke the flames.

Come at me bro

 

[Zaap]

Ever heard of social media? Doesn't have to be some "central command" coordinating it, just enough pissed off people with a common hatred for the rich is enough to stoke the flames.

Oh please. Those paying attention have already seen how this plays out, in places like Greece, Spain, Portugal, France, the UK, etc.

First, government promises a bunch of pie-in-the-sky nonsense it (and no one else) can actually afford to poor/young/ignorant people in exchange for voting to give them power. The ignorant people are led to believe that a cash-strapped government will turn on its source of income (rich people) in favor of its liabilities (poor people).

Akin to believing a crack junkie will cooperate with the police to arrest his dealer and cut off his own supply.

Second: when the bills finally come due, governments declare austerity measures and toss the brunt of their financial ineptness squarely on the heads of the ignorant people.

Third: those fell hardest for all the big government bullshit, only to get shit dumped on their heads get pissed and riot in the streets, burning their own neighborhoods down, destroying property, demanding that government reverse its policy of favoring its assets vs. cutting off its liabilities. (Refer to crack-addict/dealer example above again as to the likelihood of forcing such a change in a leopard's spots.)

The rich end up doing this:

Watching the show from on high, having a bit of a laugh, then going about their business.

This is how the fantasy ends for those doing the rioting:

HINT: no, it's not getting big govt to go, "aww, poor you. Okay, here's those rich people's money, you poor dear!" It's a jackboot on your back, before you're hauled off.


So enjoy the fantasy that THIS TIME the same stupid "riot/show those rich people what's what!" will play out differently for those currently being set up for the same thing.

Because doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is the definition of sanity. But then again, those that don't know history...