The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.

[Texashiker]

(WalMart's focus on bringing manufacturing back is their understanding that they cannot increase sales (and might even lose them) if they don't get a growing middle class in this country).

Stockholders and wall street has become addicted to record profits. The only way to maintain this pace of record profits and low cost wages is to rely on cheap overseas production.

There is no way wall street is going to allow liveable wages to cut into their bottom line. With nations like china who have a growing middle class, wall street is going to look at the united states as a second rate consumer.

Why deal with the US who has a population of what 360 million, when china has over a billion people?

Well don't cry like a baby when Socialism grows like hell to cover those people. Remember, you're a champion of it.

With no jobs to support the middle class, socialism is our only choice.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Anyone surpised by this?

Middle class growth has been stagnant for well over a quarter of a century, jobs are sent overseas and the cost of living has grown nonetheless. That's not a sustainable model.

 

[glenn1]

So American prosperity was a fluke, back to being a third world country we go.

I'm getting the sense you've never experienced life in a truly 3rd world country, otherwise you wouldn't be making the ridiculous comparison of our poor or middle class to them. Even if you’re stuck in the bottom 5% of the US income distribution your standard of living is about equal to that of the top 5% of Indians.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...ive-better-than-most-of-the-rest-of-humanity/

Or to put it another way, our bottom 10% enjoy a better standard of living than the top 10% in Italy. Oh noes, Italy is a 3rd world nation now!

 

[Engineer]

Stockholders and wall street has become addicted to record profits. The only way to maintain this pace of record profits and low cost wages is to rely on cheap overseas production.

There is no way wall street is going to allow liveable wages to cut into their bottom line. With nations like china who have a growing middle class, wall street is going to look at the united states as a second rate consumer.

Why deal with the US who has a population of what 360 million, when china has over a billion people?




With no jobs to support the middle class, socialism is our only choice.

Well, Walmart is either just playing lip service to the issue or they are genuinely concerned (considering the conference that they called with business leaders and the pledge to buy more American made products to the tune of billions of dollars).

As for socialism, I guess you're right. We've already lost.....

 

[theeedude]

I'm getting the sense you've never experienced life in a truly 3rd world country, otherwise you wouldn't be making the ridiculous comparison of our poor or middle class to them. Even if you’re stuck in the bottom 5% of the US income distribution your standard of living is about equal to that of the top 5% of Indians.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...ive-better-than-most-of-the-rest-of-humanity/

Or to put it another way, our bottom 10% enjoy a better standard of living than the top 10% in Italy. Oh noes, Italy is a 3rd world nation now!

The bottom 10% are supported by government social programs, which you think does not provide sufficient hardship to motivate the poor.

 

[Matt1970]

Sure. But until you decide to end free trade and labor arbitrage, we need to make sure Americans can afford to eat healthy.
I hope as a true conservative you believe in states being the laboratories of democracy. Well, let's see how the experiment of banning illegal labor is going in those states:
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/2-years-after-immigration-laws-ga-ala-stable-0





So basically they had to be saved from their own stupidity by courts and loopholes, and it's still same immigrant labor picking those fields.

Illegal labor is separate problem. That's more about who gets whatever share of money spent in America. Our problem is the money we continually year after year send overseas via trade deficits. We need to change people's buying habits and the choices they make and these trade agreements we have are only making things worse.

 

[theeedude]

Illegal labor is separate problem. That's more about who gets whatever share of money spent in America. Our problem is the money we continually year after year send overseas via trade deficits. We need to change people's buying habits and the choices they make and these trade agreements we have are only making things worse.

Two sides of same coin. The reason we continually send money overseas via trade deficits is that so that the few can get a bigger share of the money spent in America, by not sharing it with American workers.

 

[Texashiker]

As for socialism, I guess you're right. We've already lost.....

I hope I am wrong.

 

[BoberFett]

Aren't you the guy who doesn't mind illegals working the fields for horseshit wages so long as you can keep buying cheap vegetables?

Yep, he's the one. And a fine Democrat he is too, championing the illegal migrant worker to save $0.05.

 

[BoberFett]

If you want to pay Americans equivalent of third world labor, don't be surprised when they spend the equivalent of third world labor too, and we end up with a third world economy.

So basically, it's OK if someone living in the US is making next to nothing picking produce, but only if they're Hispanic?

Wow, racist much senseamp?

 

[BoberFett]

And don't be surprised when the people start taking more and more via taxation or whatever other means necessary to get what they want.

So it seems. Hell, he almost seems to enjoy it somehow thinking he is going to be ahead of the masses in his 'offshore proof' job. Not smart enough to realize that as the economy goes backwards, it will drag him with it.

In your zeal to defend a fellow Democrat, you seem to completely miss the fact that senseamp is exactly who you hate. He's saying it's OK to pay foreigners next to nothing as long as we get cheap things.

You need to reevaluate your bedfellows.

 

[Engineer]

In your zeal to defend a fellow Democrat, you seem to completely miss the fact that senseamp is exactly who you hate. He's saying it's OK to pay foreigners next to nothing as long as we get cheap things.

You need to reevaluate your bedfellows.

The way that I read it, he was basically throwing a rhetorical question back to glenn stating what glenn was saying, not seasamp's views (but I could be wrong).

And as for foreigners, I don't care what they get paid. That's between them and their employer, country. I'm worried about US workers, period (and really don't give a shit whether people like glenn like it or not).

 

[glenn1]

The way that I read it, he was basically throwing a rhetorical question back to glenn stating what glenn was saying, not seasamp's views (but I could be wrong).

And as for foreigners, I don't care what they get paid. That's between them and their employer, country. I'm worried about US workers, period (and really don't give a shit whether people like glenn like it or not).

Good luck telling the rest of the world to just not compete with American workers. Enjoy your Juche ideology self-contained economy if you try to artificially prop up the wages of American workers beyond the economic value of their labor. Maybe we can purchase the blueprints for Trabant automobiles and start writing cookbooks to help make the tree bark and dirt we'll be eating taste better.

 

[theeedude]

So basically, it's OK if someone living in the US is making next to nothing picking produce, but only if they're Hispanic?

Wow, racist much senseamp?

Are you saying all Hispanics are illegal farm workers?
Seems like the racist here is you.

 

[Matt1970]

Two sides of same coin. The reason we continually send money overseas via trade deficits is that so that the few can get a bigger share of the money spent in America, by not sharing it with American workers.

No. It's not like one day every item in the stores were made in America and the next day they were all made overseas. This happened over a long period of time. Every day more and more people started opting for the cheaper import item over the more expensive domestic item. Slowly but surely reorders of American made products form stores slowed so production slowed. Sure you can continue to produce more, but who are you going to sell it to? Like I have repeatedly said, we were warned of this long ago.

 

[Engineer]

Good luck telling the rest of the world to just not compete with American workers. Enjoy your Juche ideology self-contained economy if you try to artificially prop up the wages of American workers beyond the economic value of their labor. Maybe we can purchase the blueprints for Trabant automobiles and start writing cookbooks to help make the tree bark and dirt we'll be eating taste better.

I really don't give a shit about your view anymore and am tired of wasting my time on responding. My views are mine and I'm not going to change them. If you don't like them, tough shit. If you somehow feel better by berating the US worker, feel free to do so. I don't want to hear a goddamn thing from your whining about socialism and entitlements from here on. You're getting EXACTLY what you wished for.

 

[glenn1]

I really don't give a shit about your view anymore and am tired of wasting my time on responding. My views are mine and I'm not going to change them. If you don't like them, tough shit. If you somehow feel better by berating the US worker, feel free to do so. I don't want to hear a goddamn thing from your whining about socialism and entitlements from here on. You're getting EXACTLY what you wished for.

LOL, do you think the rich fear your warnings about socialism and entitlements? The elite have been using entitlements like bread and circuses since Roman times to keep the plebes in line, and in actual revolutions it becomes license to mow down the proles like blades of grass. Typically socialist revolutions actually increase the concentration of wealth and power of the elites while vastly reducing the standard of living for the lower classes.

Honestly, if pining for the rise of American Hugo Chavez is the best you got, then I really pity the smallness of your vision.

 

[sandorski]

Bad News: The US is increasingly structured as a Banana Republic
Good News: The former strong Middle Class still has some way to go before it is a Banana Republic

 

[dmcowen674]

As if there was any doubt, this NYT article pretty much reaffirms what a lot of us know: that the US middle class is disappearing and companies that target the middle class are going broke while ones that cater to the 1% are getting more business.

It also mentions that the current economic recovery in the US is mainly being driven by the top 5% while the rest of the population keeps cutting back on spending due to increased costs of living.

How long until the class divide is so bad that you have the poor coming after the rich?

I saw this coming over a decade ago when outsourcing first started and most US industrial jobs shifted to China and IT to India. Service sector economy was always a thinly veiled disguise for "service the rich while step on the middle class".

=================================================
Speaking of the 1% business.

Did you see the Maseratis, Ferraris and Jaguar Super Bowl Ads?

People driving those will be easy targets once the poor blokes that used to be middle class go to real war against the rich that destroyed America.

History always repeats itself because man is not capable of not being greedy.

 

[boomerang]

I give this thread a hearty thumbsup. Watching senseamp flail around trying to defend his bigotry is an amazing thing to witness. Every once in a while the facade drops and we get to see what they're really thinking.

 

[theeedude]

I give this thread a hearty thumbsup. Watching senseamp flail around trying to defend his bigotry is an amazing thing to witness. Every once in a while the facade drops and we get to see what they're really thinking.

I am glad that perceiving what you want to perceive amazes you. :thumbsup:
Being easily amazed is a blessing in itself. :biggrin:

 

[Engineer]

LOL, do you think the rich fear your warnings about socialism and entitlements? The elite have been using entitlements like bread and circuses since Roman times to keep the plebes in line, and in actual revolutions it becomes license to mow down the proles like blades of grass. Typically socialist revolutions actually increase the concentration of wealth and power of the elites while vastly reducing the standard of living for the lower classes.

Honestly, if pining for the rise of American Hugo Chavez is the best you got, then I really pity the smallness of your vision.

Another one added to "Ignore".

 

[BoberFett]

Are you saying all Hispanics are illegal farm workers?
Seems like the racist here is you.

All squares are rectangles, so all rectangles are square?

Go back to school, sparky.

 

[BoberFett]

Another one added to "Ignore".

That's pretty immature. :\

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by Engineer
Another one added to "Ignore".

That's pretty immature. :\

There are some that post some ridiculous shit the only reasonable thing to do is to ignore the garbage. You are on the edge of my ignore threshold for example.