The media is killing health care reform

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: her209
Since the government is now regulating (limiting) premiums the insurance companies can collect, will the insurance companies being setting hard limits on health care benefits received over a lifetime?

lol... ok, I think we've reached the end of where I need to go with these theoretical single-issue proposals. But, I also think you still get my point, right? We could implement reform in much smaller chunks and still get to where we need to be. 1000+ pages of mostly ambiguous language that might create more problems than what we have now just simply won't cut it.

Why? You're going to have to deal with the consequences (intended and unintended) sooner or later so that 10-page bill turns into a 100-page bill.

That 1000 page bill will have legal escape hatches inserted by lobbyists vs plain laymans language. It is not intended for a person to understand it, it is intended to insert gobbly-***** to cover up language that a HS educated taxpayer could understand

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: her209
Since the government is now regulating (limiting) premiums the insurance companies can collect, will the insurance companies being setting hard limits on health care benefits received over a lifetime?

lol... ok, I think we've reached the end of where I need to go with these theoretical single-issue proposals. But, I also think you still get my point, right? We could implement reform in much smaller chunks and still get to where we need to be. 1000+ pages of mostly ambiguous language that might create more problems than what we have now just simply won't cut it.

Why? You're going to have to deal with the consequences (intended and unintended) sooner or later so that 10-page bill turns into a 100-page bill.

100 pages would still be better than the 1000+ page monstrosities they're proposing today.

The consequences of each smaller single-issue proposal would be much easier to predict, comprehend, and debate.

Well thought-out, limited, specific, reasonable, and cost-effective reform FTW.

 

[ZeGermans]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
In the interest of being "fair to both sides" the media present democratic and republican commentary in equal light, and don't dare point out how utterly false the majority of republican talking points are.

Yeah, because we all know that the media are generally right-wing folks who do nothing but bash Obama any chance they get :roll: Idiot.

hahaha you think the LIEBERAL MEDIA is anything other than an attempt at blackmailing media into tilting to the right.

 

[tk149]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: tk149

Blame whomever you want, because there's plenty of blame to go around. Blaming is, however, not constructive, and will do nothing to reform health care costs.

A bad plan is worse than no plan at all. A bad plan that will have far-reaching consequences over the course of the rest of our lifetimes, and the lifetimes of our children is much worse than nothing at all.

Congress was deliberately created to be ponderous and slow-reacting for a reason. I tend to agree with that concept.

It absolutely does. Republicans have never and will never do ANYTHING to reform healthcare and that was evident by 14 years of congress control.

Therefore, their "issues" now are not to be taken seriously, because they do not want reform, as evidenced above.

BRAINS....

You don't get it. Lots of non-Republicans are questioning the proposed plans. You are making this a partisan issue, when it is not.

Let me make this simple for you.
You: We need to move this piano downstairs.
Me: Great! Let's make sure we have a good plan before doing anything.
You: Fvck it! Let's just push the piano out the window. We'll clean it up later, and everything will be peachy.

Do you really believe that only the Republicans are in the pockets of the lobbyists?

You should look in the mirror when you question if someone has brains.

 

[nobodyknows]

^^Anybody with half a brain knew 20 years ago that the "piano" you speak of needed moved and we STILL DON"T HAVE A PLAN?

Hell boy, even Hillary had a plan, what happened to it? Oh yeah, she got shouted down just like they are doing now. This whole thread turned into nothing but a circle-jerk, shout-down.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

To learn how to scam people, no thank you

WOW, what an idiot. People who dedicate their lives to helping others and go through absolute hell in med school, residency, etc. are "scamming" people.

You have NO clue what it is like to have to work like that. How many years did you spend in school??

You are ASSuming again.

I'd guess there are as many (if not more) Doctors that are in it for the money and prestige as there are in it to help others. You don't see too many "Patch Adams" around.

Secondly, you have no idea how hard Dave (or anybody else on this forum) has worked so put your crystal ball down. It doesn't work.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: OCguy
Yea, it has nothing to do with a rushed turd of a bill in a time when we have no money to spend.

We should keep letting Republicans start endless wars and occupations, doubling our deficit.. so by the time someone else gets in, they are stuck doing nothing because we have "no money to spend."

Great argument.

I'm sorry, I forgot that we here at AT pretend that the democrats didnt fund and vote for Iraq.

Was it the democrats fixing the inteligence? Was it the democrats standing in front of the UN lying through their teeth? Was it the democrats who outed Valerie Plume and promised to get whoever did that?

Geesh, some people have short, short memories.

 

[piasabird]

The Media got O'Bamma elected. It is O'Bamma that cant get his health care plan approved. Blame Carl Marx. Blame Hitler. Blame Pelosi. You dont think that O'Bamma is smart enough to write a 1200 page health care bill do you? The guy is a deluded Demi-God. He is responsible for this mess.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Bout time the overpaid scamming medical and insurance industries joins the rest of the club of the overworked, underpaid and taxed the shit out of club.

Dave, I really, actively, dislike you, and wish to hell you'd go away.

I've never scammed anyone in the performance of my job, if you consider my making what a used car salesman or a garbage collector or a cop makes, then I guess I'm over fucking paid, and it's one of the reasons I do what I do for a living, I don't have ethical issues with it.

I would hazard that you though are an untrustworthy piece of fecal material who's paid what he's worth, and is barely worth the time I would take to scrape you off my shoe were I to step on you.

I'd love to really flame your sorry ass, but it's not worth me getting vacationed here. I encourage you to visit TFNN where you can't hide behind the rules... Hell man, we made you a mod and you're still the mod of the P&N forum over there.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Bout time the overpaid scamming medical and insurance industries joins the rest of the club of the overworked, underpaid and taxed the shit out of club.

Dave, I really, actively, dislike you, and wish to hell you'd go away.

I've never scammed anyone in the performance of my job, if you consider my making what a used car salesman or a garbage collector or a cop makes, then I guess I'm over fucking paid, and it's one of the reasons I do what I do for a living, I don't have ethical issues with it.

I would hazard that you though are an untrustworthy piece of fecal material who's paid what he's worth, and is barely worth the time I would take to scrape you off my shoe were I to step on you.

I'd love to really flame your sorry ass, but it's not worth me getting vacationed here. I encourage you to visit TFNN where you can't hide behind the rules... Hell man, we made you a mod and you're still the mod of the P&N forum over there.

What's this TFNN you speak of where they were crazy enough to make Dave a mod? please send pm with info.

 

[TechAZ]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

To learn how to scam people, no thank you

WOW, what an idiot. People who dedicate their lives to helping others and go through absolute hell in med school, residency, etc. are "scamming" people.

You have NO clue what it is like to have to work like that. How many years did you spend in school??

You are ASSuming again.

I'd guess there are as many (if not more) Doctors that are in it for the money and prestige as there are in it to help others. You don't see too many "Patch Adams" around.

Secondly, you have no idea how hard Dave (or anybody else on this forum) has worked so put your crystal ball down. It doesn't work.

Correct me if I'm wrong here......

Even if a Doctor is in it for the money and prestige, isn't he still dedicating his life to the patients? You don't even start making real money until your 10+ years of college are over, your 100k+ student loans are paid, and your years of 80+ hour work weeks are over. It's not like a 9-5 job, it encompasses your life. WTF does Patch Adams have to do with anything, you don't have to be friendly and courteous to save a life or better someone's quality of life. More often than not, the intolerable surgeons are the best ones who provide the best results.

Dave is a troll, either that or he really should be on some medication.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

To learn how to scam people, no thank you

WOW, what an idiot. People who dedicate their lives to helping others and go through absolute hell in med school, residency, etc. are "scamming" people.

You have NO clue what it is like to have to work like that. How many years did you spend in school??

You are ASSuming again.

I'd guess there are as many (if not more) Doctors that are in it for the money and prestige as there are in it to help others. You don't see too many "Patch Adams" around.

Secondly, you have no idea how hard Dave (or anybody else on this forum) has worked so put your crystal ball down. It doesn't work.

I wasn't the one insulting an entire profession. He was. You are "ASSuming" that there are as many in it for the money/prestige as there are to help others. This isn't an MBA we're talking about, where just about anyone could get one. This field requires not only a ton of education, but incredible dedication and obscene hours and workload while in residency, when these guys are getting paid peanuts. However, this is no surprise coming from you, given your obvious dislike (or is it outright hated?) of medical professionals. I'd like to see you and the other anti-medical profession people go through med school and residency, rack up tremendous debt doing so, and then see how it would feel to be called things like "scammers."

Dave is an ignorant hack whose claim to fame is his ridiculous "predictions" and obvious trolling (no one can be that stupid, please).

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan


What's this TFNN you speak of where they were crazy enough to make Dave a mod? please send pm with info.

I ventured over to TFNN and saw Dave was a mod on that site and that instantly discredited the site in my eyes.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Again, the blame for what?

What exactly are you blaming the Republicans for again? Not passing UHC?

It would certainly seem so. Though he seems to be completely clueless WRT 'the republicans can't stop the democrat majority' concept. Just another partisan hack.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: piasabird
The Media got O'Bamma elected. It is O'Bamma that cant get his health care plan approved. Blame Carl Marx. Blame Hitler. Blame Pelosi. You dont think that O'Bamma is smart enough to write a 1200 page health care bill do you? The guy is a deluded Demi-God. He is responsible for this mess.

I still don't get what O'bamma is referring to. Is he part Irish?

And your post is nothing more than random names and random titles strung together in a grammatical correct sentence. However, just because the grammar is correct doesn't mean that the sentence has any actual content in it.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: FerrelGeek

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Again, the blame for what?

What exactly are you blaming the Republicans for again? Not passing UHC?

It would certainly seem so. Though he seems to be completely clueless WRT 'the republicans can't stop the democrat majority' concept. Just another partisan hack.

If I am not mistaken, didn't Bill Clinton have a Democrat congress the first couple of years of his administration? If that is the case, I guess we have to blame them as well.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
^^Anybody with half a brain knew 20 years ago that the "piano" you speak of needed moved and we STILL DON"T HAVE A PLAN?

Hell boy, even Hillary had a plan, what happened to it? Oh yeah, she got shouted down just like they are doing now. This whole thread turned into nothing but a circle-jerk, shout-down.

There's a difference between having a plan and having a good plan.

'Chucking the piano out the window is a bad idea.'
'But it's a plan!'
'But it's not a good plan.'
''OK, let's just push it down the stairs.'
'Uuuuh, that doesn't sound like a good idea either.'
'Well, well, well, you're just mean! You really don't want this piano moved, do you!' Well I'm gonna push it down the stairs whether you like it or not!' Get outa my way!'
'Not a good idea.'
'Get outa the way!'
'No! I'm not gonna stand here and let you destroy a piano (even if it's a dinged up upright), It's still a piano!' Besides, you don't know what may happen when it hits the bottom of the stairs!'
'You're shouting at me! You're not allowed to shout at me! You don't have the right to shout at me!!!!'
'Why don't we talk to some people who've moved pianos before and see what they recommend?'
'Nooooo!!!!!!' PUSH! PUSH!'

Sarcasm off. Rant off.

If someone...anyone, could offer up a proposal that doesn't require 1000 pages, provides sensible reforms to the existing system, and doesn't give a sizeable portion of our economy to an entity that has shown time and again that it doesn't run things well, I'll very likely support such proposal. I won't sign onto something just to check a box in the win column.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: FerrelGeek

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Again, the blame for what?

What exactly are you blaming the Republicans for again? Not passing UHC?

It would certainly seem so. Though he seems to be completely clueless WRT 'the republicans can't stop the democrat majority' concept. Just another partisan hack.

If I am not mistaken, didn't Bill Clinton have a Democrat congress the first couple of years of his administration? If that is the case, I guess we have to blame them as well.

Yes, Clinton had a dem majority in both houses, but not the 60 vote supermajority that Obama has. Either way, Hillary's plan was lousy as well as all it was was just another .gov power-grab. Same basic garbage 16 years apart.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: FerrelGeek

Yes, Clinton had a dem majority in both houses, but not the 60 vote supermajority that Obama has. Either way, Hillary's plan was lousy as well as all it was was just another .gov power-grab. Same basic garbage 16 years apart.

Yeah, my point here is that these guys are blaming Republicans when they held the WH and both houses of Congress but yet gloss over the fact Clinton had both houses as well and couldn't get it done even with a commitment to get it done. I'm sure the usual suspects will chime in and blame the Republicans for getting it shot down, but shadow9d9's premise was that Republicans were to blame when they held the WH and both houses of Congress, so the same can be said of Clinton. They conveniently ignore that fact when blaming the Republicans.

Regardless, the finger pointing and blame game is tiring and counterproductive. Reform needs to happen, not tearing up the whole system.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: FerrelGeek

Yes, Clinton had a dem majority in both houses, but not the 60 vote supermajority that Obama has. Either way, Hillary's plan was lousy as well as all it was was just another .gov power-grab. Same basic garbage 16 years apart.

Yeah, my point here is that these guys are blaming Republicans when they held the WH and both houses of Congress but yet gloss over the fact Clinton had both houses as well and couldn't get it done even with a commitment to get it done. I'm sure the usual suspects will chime in and blame the Republicans for getting it shot down, but shadow9d9's premise was that Republicans were to blame when they held the WH and both houses of Congress, so the same can be said of Clinton. They conveniently ignore that fact when blaming the Republicans.

Regardless, the finger pointing and blame game is tiring and counterproductive. Reform needs to happen, not tearing up the whole system.

Completely agree!

 

[tk149]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
^^Anybody with half a brain knew 20 years ago that the "piano" you speak of needed moved and we STILL DON"T HAVE A PLAN?

Hell boy, even Hillary had a plan, what happened to it? Oh yeah, she got shouted down just like they are doing now. This whole thread turned into nothing but a circle-jerk, shout-down.

Who's shouting and circle-jerking? Look in the mirror.

What part of well-documented, well-reasoned, well-financed plan don't you agree with?

The next Congressional election is well-over a year off. That gives the current Congress a lot of time to come up with a decent plan. They don't have to start from scratch. Other non-political entities have studied the health care cost problem.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: tk149

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
^^Anybody with half a brain knew 20 years ago that the "piano" you speak of needed moved and we STILL DON"T HAVE A PLAN?

Hell boy, even Hillary had a plan, what happened to it? Oh yeah, she got shouted down just like they are doing now. This whole thread turned into nothing but a circle-jerk, shout-down.

Who's shouting and circle-jerking? Look in the mirror.

What part of well-documented, well-reasoned, well-financed plan don't you agree with?

The next Congressional election is well-over a year off. That gives the current Congress a lot of time to come up with a decent plan. They don't have to start from scratch. Other non-political entities have studied the health care cost problem.

I think a lot of people are just in [p|m]anic mode. They see the bill falling through despite having the White House and congressional super majority, and they're scrambling to preemptively cast blame wherever they can.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: FerrelGeek

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
^^Anybody with half a brain knew 20 years ago that the "piano" you speak of needed moved and we STILL DON"T HAVE A PLAN?

Hell boy, even Hillary had a plan, what happened to it? Oh yeah, she got shouted down just like they are doing now. This whole thread turned into nothing but a circle-jerk, shout-down.

There's a difference between having a plan and having a good plan.

'Chucking the piano out the window is a bad idea.'
'But it's a plan!'
'But it's not a good plan.'
''OK, let's just push it down the stairs.'
'Uuuuh, that doesn't sound like a good idea either.'
'Well, well, well, you're just mean! You really don't want this piano moved, do you!' Well I'm gonna push it down the stairs whether you like it or not!' Get outa my way!'
'Not a good idea.'
'Get outa the way!'
'No! I'm not gonna stand here and let you destroy a piano (even if it's a dinged up upright), It's still a piano!' Besides, you don't know what may happen when it hits the bottom of the stairs!'
'You're shouting at me! You're not allowed to shout at me! You don't have the right to shout at me!!!!'
'Why don't we talk to some people who've moved pianos before and see what they recommend?'
'Nooooo!!!!!!' PUSH! PUSH!'

Sarcasm off. Rant off.

If someone...anyone, could offer up a proposal that doesn't require 1000 pages, provides sensible reforms to the existing system, and doesn't give a sizeable portion of our economy to an entity that has shown time and again that it doesn't run things well, I'll very likely support such proposal. I won't sign onto something just to check a box in the win column.

and thats pretty much it.

I really want a UHC just wish they get a real plan.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

To learn how to scam people, no thank you

WOW, what an idiot. People who dedicate their lives to helping others and go through absolute hell in med school, residency, etc. are "scamming" people.

You have NO clue what it is like to have to work like that. How many years did you spend in school??

You are ASSuming again.

I'd guess there are as many (if not more) Doctors that are in it for the money and prestige as there are in it to help others. You don't see too many "Patch Adams" around.

Secondly, you have no idea how hard Dave (or anybody else on this forum) has worked so put your crystal ball down. It doesn't work.

I wasn't the one insulting an entire profession. He was. You are "ASSuming" that there are as many in it for the money/prestige as there are to help others. This isn't an MBA we're talking about, where just about anyone could get one. This field requires not only a ton of education, but incredible dedication and obscene hours and workload while in residency, when these guys are getting paid peanuts. However, this is no surprise coming from you, given your obvious dislike (or is it outright hated?) of medical professionals. I'd like to see you and the other anti-medical profession people go through med school and residency, rack up tremendous debt doing so, and then see how it would feel to be called things like "scammers."

My assumptions are just as valid as you assumptions and I obviosuly think mine are better then yours. I never called them scammers, I just stated MY opinion that there are as many in the medical profession for the money/prestige as there are who have the call to really help people.

The doctor (radiologist) who read my CT scans and did the biopsy on my lung and I really hit it off personality wise. He knows I don't have insurance and when I ran into him at the grocery store he told me to ignore his bills when they come. He said he wouldn't pursue the matter. How many doctors do that out of the blue??? I guess he sensed my "outright hatred of medical professionals" and it scared him?

You know, you really need to quit trying to pass off YOUR opinions as facts. It just show what an ignorant troll you are.

Dave is an ignorant hack whose claim to fame is his ridiculous "predictions" and obvious trolling (no one can be that stupid, please).

Daves status as a troll is not at issue here. I say you have no idea how hard he has worked in his life. I think you're a troll so I guess then i should also ASSume your a lazy ass?

Grow up.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: tk149

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
^^Anybody with half a brain knew 20 years ago that the "piano" you speak of needed moved and we STILL DON"T HAVE A PLAN?

Hell boy, even Hillary had a plan, what happened to it? Oh yeah, she got shouted down just like they are doing now. This whole thread turned into nothing but a circle-jerk, shout-down.

Who's shouting and circle-jerking? Look in the mirror.

What part of well-documented, well-reasoned, well-financed plan don't you agree with?

The next Congressional election is well-over a year off. That gives the current Congress a lot of time to come up with a decent plan. They don't have to start from scratch. Other non-political entities have studied the health care cost problem.

Look at who's posting in this thread, especially look at the ones trying to pass their opinions/assumptions off as fact. Look in the mirror indeed.