The media is killing health care reform

[StageLeft]

ANYTHING that exempts pre-existing conditions and cancellations of insurances, is worth WHATEVER COST WE HAVE TO PAY.

I'm inclined to disagree.

The "oh no, it is being rushed" cries are nonsense

Not nonsense. The bill is rushed. Obama was hoping to have it signed not long after a point at which he still had no idea how to pay for it. We have the congressional budget committee saying it will increase the deficit among other problems like concerns about being able to keep your own doctor, we see the thing is 1000 pages long. It's a mess. Start over.

Oh man, did I forget that republicans had complete control of both houses with a president as well then? Because that kinda means that the ones in complete control of all of congress and the executive should shoulder the blame... IF you have a brain.

Nonetheless, the democrats voted lockstep, for the most part. You can't call somebody a whore while sleeping with her. It's just a bit hypocritical.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Oh man, did I forget that republicans had complete control of both houses with a president as well then? Because that kinda means that the ones in complete control of all of congress and the executive should shoulder the blame... IF you have a brain.

Wouldn't that mean that you should be blaming the Democrats for their failure to provide effective reform right now?

Do YOU have a brain?

LOL... wow.. you sure walked into that one, didn't ya? :laugh:

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I thought Congress had already exempted themselves from this.

Anyway in this case the ends justify whatever means are going on. The current bills is a mess, so however it dies it's probably for the best. There is NO reason in the world to rush this thing as it is being rushed. It needs to be refined massively.

Except if something isn't rushed through congress, it doesn't get done, period. ANYTHING that exempts pre-existing conditions and cancellations of insurances, is worth WHATEVER COST WE HAVE TO PAY. We have unlimited funds for 2-10+ year occupations of foreign countries, but when it comes to our own people, we do nothing.

Interesting that the Democrats voted to fund the aforementioned occupations (Iraq was a waste, I'll agree). Also, you have very interesting logic. Let me quote:

"ANYTHING that exempts pre-existing conditions and cancellations of insurances, is worth WHATEVER COST WE HAVE TO PAY."

So using your logic, we shouldn't worry about costs at all, we should just pay whatever is necessary. Am I understanding you correctly?

Republicans had control for 12 years and did NOTHING. They have always been against ANYTHING that hurts for profit companies(even if they kill our people). Republican presidents have actively been against it, using smear campaigns and outright lies(as they are doing now) to derail it.

So, if you want to blame the rush, blame the republicans and their smear and distortion campaigns that REQUIRE any bills to be rushed.

More GREAT logic on your part. "Let's rush our bills through or else the Republican bogeyman will stop them! Who cares if the bill sucks, we HAVE to do something!!"

The "oh no, it is being rushed" cries are nonsense, with the republican backed smearing and distorting campaign, which over time will erode efforts if there were to be a longer timetable for planning.

Keep telling yourself this if it makes you feel better.

Blame the republicans which never have and never will support any health reform and consistently spread lies to erode support with the braindead common people.

Nice condescending attitude you have there.

So you didn't respond to anything... just responded with fear and ignorance.

Par for the course.

Oh, btw.. costs have nothing to do with pre-existing conditions when profits go up 1000% for covering less people over a 5 year period in the health insurance industry. More distortions and fear!

A majority of people couldn't point to Iraq on a map in this country, so yes, they are braindead...

 

[CPA]

OP, keep in mind in your argument that Congress will be exempt from the universal healthcare plan they are pushing. So any reform won't impact them.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Oh man, did I forget that republicans had complete control of both houses with a president as well then? Because that kinda means that the ones in complete control of all of congress and the executive should shoulder the blame... IF you have a brain.

Wow, way to excuse your party. :thumbsup:

They aren't my party.

Are you denying that the people in complete control in all of congress and the executive should NOT shoulder the blame?

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
ANYTHING that exempts pre-existing conditions and cancellations of insurances, is worth WHATEVER COST WE HAVE TO PAY.

So why not propose a simple 10-page bill that does just that?

Republicans had control for 12 years and did NOTHING.

Ever heard of HSA?

So, if you want to blame the rush, blame the republicans and their smear and distortion campaigns that REQUIRE any bills to be rushed.

The Dems will have total control of both houses and the same number of votes, on any bill, for the next 18 months.

The "oh no, it is being rushed" cries are nonsense, with the republican backed smearing and distorting campaign, which over time will erode efforts if there were to be a longer timetable for planning.

Blame the republicans which never have and never will support any health reform and consistently spread lies to erode support with the braindead common people.

I'm not a Republican, or a Democrat either, but I'm still against the current proposals in Congress. Imagine that.

Please study the results here:
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2325904&enterthread=y

Roughly 87% of those polled are opposed to the current reform proposals for one reason or another.

You're fighting with and blaming the wrong people.

HSA does nothing to curtail pre-existing conditions or denial of coverage or increasing charges to increase profits obscenely.

The democrats are not unified with the same agenda as the republicans. The "blue dogs" are essentially hick states who declared themselves democrats.

The common person is braindead, so they are out of the equation in my book. A huge percentage don't even think Obama was born in the US.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Oh man, did I forget that republicans had complete control of both houses with a president as well then? Because that kinda means that the ones in complete control of all of congress and the executive should shoulder the blame... IF you have a brain.

Wow, way to excuse your party. :thumbsup:

They aren't my party.

Are you denying that the people in complete control in all of congress and the executive should NOT shoulder the blame?

The people that voted for the use of force would be. And that is almost every single member regardless of party.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Oh man, did I forget that republicans had complete control of both houses with a president as well then? Because that kinda means that the ones in complete control of all of congress and the executive should shoulder the blame... IF you have a brain.

Wow, way to excuse your party. :thumbsup:

They aren't my party.

Are you denying that the people in complete control in all of congress and the executive should NOT shoulder the blame?

ummm... once again... that would mean you should be blaming the Dems for the current healthcare reform debacle.

Are you wearing a helmet?

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: tk149

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I thought Congress had already exempted themselves from this.

Anyway in this case the ends justify whatever means are going on. The current bills is a mess, so however it dies it's probably for the best. There is NO reason in the world to rush this thing as it is being rushed. It needs to be refined massively.

Except if something isn't rushed through congress, it doesn't get done, period. ANYTHING that exempts pre-existing conditions and cancellations of insurances, is worth WHATEVER COST WE HAVE TO PAY. We have unlimited funds for 2-10+ year occupations of foreign countries, but when it comes to our own people, we do nothing.

Republicans had control for 12 years and did NOTHING. They have always been against ANYTHING that hurts for profit companies(even if they kill our people). Republican presidents have actively been against it, using smear campaigns and outright lies(as they are doing now) to derail it.

So, if you want to blame the rush, blame the republicans and their smear and distortion campaigns that REQUIRE any bills to be rushed.

The "oh no, it is being rushed" cries are nonsense, with the republican backed smearing and distorting campaign, which over time will erode efforts if there were to be a longer timetable for planning.

Blame the republicans which never have and never will support any health reform and consistently spread lies to erode support with the braindead common people.

Blame whomever you want, because there's plenty of blame to go around. Blaming is, however, not constructive, and will do nothing to reform health care costs.

A bad plan is worse than no plan at all. A bad plan that will have far-reaching consequences over the course of the rest of our lifetimes, and the lifetimes of our children is much worse than nothing at all.

Congress was deliberately created to be ponderous and slow-reacting for a reason. I tend to agree with that concept.

It absolutely does. Republicans have never and will never do ANYTHING to reform healthcare and that was evident by 14 years of congress control.

Therefore, their "issues" now are not to be taken seriously, because they do not want reform, as evidenced above.

BRAINS....

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

So you didn't respond to anything... just responded with fear and ignorance.

Par for the course.

Oh, btw.. costs have nothing to do with pre-existing conditions when profits go up 1000% for covering less people over a 5 year period in the health insurance industry. More distortions and fear!

A majority of people couldn't point to Iraq on a map in this country, so yes, they are braindead...

Search for all the studies and results I have posted. I am not rehashing those yet again. You are a knee-jerk reactionary who somehow feels the government will do such a great job and that is it somehow the government's responsibility to provide health care to its people. WRONG!

Costs are the issue. You continue to deny that, but everyone from the CBO to Obama himself disagree with your ridiculous assertion. You want pre-existing conditions covered? Fine! Get a bill passed to do it! It is not necessary to destroy the coverage most of us have to cover the minority.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Zedtom
The media needs to go out and interview the people who work with the actual billing everyday. The clerks, secretaries, bookkeepers, accountants, and managers who have to deal with Medicare, the insurance companies, the HMO's, the hospitals and elderly care facilities. They will tell you of arcane billing codes that are used in the medical industry that lead to wasted time and resources.

The system is not broken. It is weighed down by twentieth century accounting methods and obstinate management that is wary of modern advances in data management.

If we don't change our approach, the system will collapse.

They also need to dig into Tri-Care, the government insurance for the military and get answers as to why many doctors won't take Tri-Care do to non-pay by the gov't.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Oh man, did I forget that republicans had complete control of both houses with a president as well then? Because that kinda means that the ones in complete control of all of congress and the executive should shoulder the blame... IF you have a brain.

Wouldn't that mean that you should be blaming the Democrats for their failure to provide effective reform right now?

Do YOU have a brain?

LOL... wow.. you sure walked into that one, didn't ya? :laugh:

I think their reform is fine now and just hasn't been voted on yet.

Walked into your opinions as fact "argument"?

Hick state democrats stalled it. As far as I am concerned, they aren't democrats, unlike the hick state republicans(all) which are lock step with each other.

Moron.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

ANYTHING that exempts pre-existing conditions and cancellations of insurances, is worth WHATEVER COST WE HAVE TO PAY.

I'm inclined to disagree.

The "oh no, it is being rushed" cries are nonsense

Not nonsense. The bill is rushed. Obama was hoping to have it signed not long after a point at which he still had no idea how to pay for it. We have the congressional budget committee saying it will increase the deficit among other problems like concerns about being able to keep your own doctor, we see the thing is 1000 pages long. It's a mess. Start over.

Oh man, did I forget that republicans had complete control of both houses with a president as well then? Because that kinda means that the ones in complete control of all of congress and the executive should shoulder the blame... IF you have a brain.

Nonetheless, the democrats voted lockstep, for the most part. You can't call somebody a whore while sleeping with her. It's just a bit hypocritical.

Has your family been denied by every insurer in the state? Have you seen first hand the problems with insurance? Does your employer cover you?

Those answers might be why it isn't a big issue to you.

Until things affect you personally, you are unlikely to care as much as I. This is and always will be the way of things.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Oh man, did I forget that republicans had complete control of both houses with a president as well then? Because that kinda means that the ones in complete control of all of congress and the executive should shoulder the blame... IF you have a brain.

Wow, way to excuse your party. :thumbsup:

They aren't my party.

Are you denying that the people in complete control in all of congress and the executive should NOT shoulder the blame?

ummm... once again... that would mean you should be blaming the Dems for the current healthcare reform debacle.

Are you wearing a helmet?

Blame them for what? The hick state dems?

It hasn't gone to vote yet. What is there to blame?

Are you braindead? Seriously... just because YOU don't like it, does not make it a "debacle".... nor does the spin/lies machine that is so easy to create among the ignorant and fearful in this country.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

So you didn't respond to anything... just responded with fear and ignorance.

Par for the course.

Oh, btw.. costs have nothing to do with pre-existing conditions when profits go up 1000% for covering less people over a 5 year period in the health insurance industry. More distortions and fear!

A majority of people couldn't point to Iraq on a map in this country, so yes, they are braindead...

Search for all the studies and results I have posted. I am not rehashing those yet again. You are a knee-jerk reactionary who somehow feels the government will do such a great job and that is it somehow the government's responsibility to provide health care to its people. WRONG!

Costs are the issue. You continue to deny that, but everyone from the CBO to Obama himself disagree with your ridiculous assertion. You want pre-existing conditions covered? Fine! Get a bill passed to do it! It is not necessary to destroy the coverage most of us have to cover the minority.

Nope, costs aren't the problem. Keep repeating that. 1000% profit increase in 5 years for less people. COSTS ARE A HUGE PROBL:EM!!!!!

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Blame them for what? The hick state dems?

It hasn't gone to vote yet. What is there to blame?

Are you braindead? Seriously... just because YOU don't like it, does not make it a "debacle".... nor does the spin/lies machine that is so easy to create among the ignorant and fearful in this country.

Wow, you arent one of the more prejudice/generalizing people on this board, now are you?

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Oh man, did I forget that republicans had complete control of both houses with a president as well then? Because that kinda means that the ones in complete control of all of congress and the executive should shoulder the blame... IF you have a brain.

Wouldn't that mean that you should be blaming the Democrats for their failure to provide effective reform right now?

Do YOU have a brain?

LOL... wow.. you sure walked into that one, didn't ya? :laugh:

I think their reform is fine now and just hasn't been voted on yet.

Walked into your opinions as fact "argument"?

Hick state democrats stalled it. As far as I am concerned, they aren't democrats, unlike the hick state republicans(all) which are lock step with each other.

Moron.

Ohhhhhhhh... So, the bold statement above only applies when it's the Republicans who have total control of both houses and the President?

Got it. :roll:

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

So you didn't respond to anything... just responded with fear and ignorance.

Par for the course.

Oh, btw.. costs have nothing to do with pre-existing conditions when profits go up 1000% for covering less people over a 5 year period in the health insurance industry. More distortions and fear!

A majority of people couldn't point to Iraq on a map in this country, so yes, they are braindead...

Search for all the studies and results I have posted. I am not rehashing those yet again. You are a knee-jerk reactionary who somehow feels the government will do such a great job and that is it somehow the government's responsibility to provide health care to its people. WRONG!

Costs are the issue. You continue to deny that, but everyone from the CBO to Obama himself disagree with your ridiculous assertion. You want pre-existing conditions covered? Fine! Get a bill passed to do it! It is not necessary to destroy the coverage most of us have to cover the minority.

Nope, costs aren't the problem. Keep repeating that. 1000% profit increase in 5 years for less people. COSTS ARE A HUGE PROBL:EM!!!!!

OK, I'll relay that to Obama and the CBO and tell them that shadow9d9 said they were wrong. I imagine you'll be appointed the czar of something, just not sure what.

 

[tk149]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: OCguy
Yea, it has nothing to do with a rushed turd of a bill in a time when we have no money to spend.

We should keep letting Republicans start endless wars and occupations, doubling our deficit.. so by the time someone else gets in, they are stuck doing nothing because we have "no money to spend."

Great argument.

I'm sorry, I forgot that we here at AT pretend that the democrats didnt fund and vote for Iraq.

Oh man, did I forget that republicans had complete control of both houses with a president as well then? Because that kinda means that the ones in complete control of all of congress and the executive should shoulder the blame... IF you have a brain.

Wikipedia

House of Representatives
Senate

Note that not all Republicans voted for the war, and not all Democrats voted against it (including our current Sec of State). Do these Republicans share the blame? Are these Democrats somehow blameless?

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: tk149
Wikipedia

House of Representatives
Senate

Note that not all Republicans voted for the war, and not all Democrats voted against it (including our current Sec of State). Do these Republicans share the blame? Are these Democrats somehow blameless?

They voted for it, and should hold some responsibility. However, the conduct of the Iraq war is solely on Bush and Rumsfield.

 

[Zedtom]

Originally posted by: CPA

They also need to dig into Tri-Care, the government insurance for the military and get answers as to why many doctors won't take Tri-Care do to non-pay by the gov't.

Since everyone is concerned about the government mismanaging health care, the media needs to look at Tri-Care and Medicare. If the HMO's and insurance companies hadn't looted the medicare assets, it could be a successful program.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: Skoorb

ANYTHING that exempts pre-existing conditions and cancellations of insurances, is worth WHATEVER COST WE HAVE TO PAY.

I'm inclined to disagree.

The "oh no, it is being rushed" cries are nonsense

Not nonsense. The bill is rushed. Obama was hoping to have it signed not long after a point at which he still had no idea how to pay for it. We have the congressional budget committee saying it will increase the deficit among other problems like concerns about being able to keep your own doctor, we see the thing is 1000 pages long. It's a mess. Start over.

Oh man, did I forget that republicans had complete control of both houses with a president as well then? Because that kinda means that the ones in complete control of all of congress and the executive should shoulder the blame... IF you have a brain.

Nonetheless, the democrats voted lockstep, for the most part. You can't call somebody a whore while sleeping with her. It's just a bit hypocritical.

Has your family been denied by every insurer in the state? Have you seen first hand the problems with insurance? Does your employer cover you?

Those answers might be why it isn't a big issue to you.

Until things affect you personally, you are unlikely to care as much as I. This is and always will be the way of things.

Did you miss my suggestion that you could start by proposing a small 10-page bill that would specifically address, via regulations, just that one issue?

My guess is that such a bill would pass with little to no trouble at all.

Short, specific, and effective 10 page bills > 1000 page debacles.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan
Did you miss my suggestion that you could start by proposing a small 10-page bill that would specifically address, via regulations, just that one issue?

My guess is that such a bill would pass with little to no trouble at all.

Short, specific, and effective 10 page bills > 1000 page debacles.

What's going to be in this 10-page bill?

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: Skoorb

ANYTHING that exempts pre-existing conditions and cancellations of insurances, is worth WHATEVER COST WE HAVE TO PAY.

I'm inclined to disagree.

The "oh no, it is being rushed" cries are nonsense

Not nonsense. The bill is rushed. Obama was hoping to have it signed not long after a point at which he still had no idea how to pay for it. We have the congressional budget committee saying it will increase the deficit among other problems like concerns about being able to keep your own doctor, we see the thing is 1000 pages long. It's a mess. Start over.

Oh man, did I forget that republicans had complete control of both houses with a president as well then? Because that kinda means that the ones in complete control of all of congress and the executive should shoulder the blame... IF you have a brain.

Nonetheless, the democrats voted lockstep, for the most part. You can't call somebody a whore while sleeping with her. It's just a bit hypocritical.

Has your family been denied by every insurer in the state? Have you seen first hand the problems with insurance? Does your employer cover you?

Those answers might be why it isn't a big issue to you.

Until things affect you personally, you are unlikely to care as much as I. This is and always will be the way of things.

It is the way, but they have affected me, just not in negative ways. I am part of the majority of the country who are happy with their insurance. All of the doctors visits, MRIs, etc. have been extremely painless and so why would I seek to see it changed?

BTW, has anybody asked Obama or a congress person why they are exempt from this? They are, right? I've heard it a lot but it's hard to tell myth from not.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan
Did you miss my suggestion that you could start by proposing a small 10-page bill that would specifically address, via regulations, just that one issue?

My guess is that such a bill would pass with little to no trouble at all.

Short, specific, and effective 10 page bills > 1000 page debacles.

What's going to be in this 10-page bill?

Specific regulation to halt the practice of denials of enrollment and treatments by private insurance companies.

In other words, we should attack the healthcare problems one at a time in an effective and coherent manner, instead of trying to take on every single issue in one massive and unreadable piece of garbage.