The long wait for Haswell. Intel's Bulldozer.

[Obsoleet]

I waited a long time for Haswell. I'm on a Q9450. This was supposed to be the big kahoonah. Amazing CPU increase, amazing GPU increase.

Huge letdown, for me, of Bulldozer proportions.
I was a fan of the A10 as I feel it's the way to go overall (little less CPU power, but more than my Q9450 which is still fast in my book and has a great GPU for a backup).
Now I'm still a fan of the A10 5800K. The current A10 and beyond are the ticket. The Kaveri refresh is the most exciting thing going on.

I'm still reviewing what Intel has (or more appropriately, doesn't have...) and might build a replacement for the Q9450 rig with Haswell.. but I use USB 3.0 and the USB3 bug with Haswell is the nail in the coffin. All 3 major consoles being on AMD is another nail about to be hammered.

Here's to the A6/A8/A10 series (glad that finally got a decent naming scheme, another thing they have on Intel). Looking forward to Kaveri.

After reviewing this, I don't believe there's any more meaningful discussion to be had; the only thing that can happen from here is flames. The point has been made, so it will remain closed.
-ViRGE

 

[Idontcare]

What is it with these over-the-top hyperbole laden blogposts that needlessly get posted as their own threads instead of simply being a single post added to any one of the existing threads in the forum?

 

[Wall Street]

Huge letdown, for me, of Bulldozer proportions.
I was a fan of the A10 as I feel it's the way to go overall (little less CPU power, but more than my Q9450 which is still fast in my book and has a great GPU for a backup).
Now I'm still a fan of the A10 5800K. The current A10 and beyond are the ticket.

You think that Haswell performance disappoints so you suggest a CPU that is only 1/2 as fast? Although people are expressing their dissatisfaction on several forums, I wouldn't lose sight of the fact that haswell i7-4770k is still the fastest 4-core desktop processor that Intel has ever made.

EDIT: I guess I should of said it is the fastest 4-core that anyone has ever made.

 

[2is]

IB was an incremental performance upgrade over SB, Haswell an incremental performance upgrade over IB. So 3 generations of CPUs without a whole lot of parity between them, yet AMD still isn't even in the same ballpark.

I personally wouldn't be so content if I owned an AMD product.

I do wish Haswell was more enthusiast oriented than it is, but to compare it to AMD is silly.

 

[Obsoleet]

yet AMD still isn't even in the same ballpark.

You think that Haswell performance disappoints so you suggest a CPU that is only 1/2 as fast? Although people are expressing their dissatisfaction on several forums, I wouldn't lose sight of the fact that haswell i7-4770k is still the fastest 4-core desktop processor that Intel has ever made.

That's fine, and I recognize that.
But honestly, who cares?

I haven't upgraded my Q9450 because I haven't needed to. Though to be fair, I've had it OC'd to 3ghz since the day I bought it (launch day for the Q9450). It might be a tad slow without that.

I'm looking for the best APU, whether that be from Intel or AMD. The A10 has enough CPU power and better GPU power. It's not as strong as I'd like, but it is the best we have overall. They can be had for $110 on Newegg right now.

I've been attracted to the A10 5800 since it was released. I figured Haswell was the Trinity killer, but it's just not.
Given the expectations myself and other's had of Haswell, the biggest tock Intel was supposed to have in a LONG time, and will REMAIN the biggest tock of a long time into the future if you believe Intel.. I think it's time to hang up our hats on expecting big boosts ever again in the x86 market.
Unless you're excited about AMD's APU improvements, which I personally find more exciting at this point due to the opportunity to shed a standalone video card at some point in the near future.

We'll see what AMD can bring us, maybe an advantage based on their console design wins. If nothing else, working USB 3.0 (which I've been using for years now..), but I'm giving up on Intel.

 

[erunion]

its like people are still in 1999 and have no idea what tick-tock is. Intel refreshes yearly now we aren't going to see the big jumps between generations like in the past.

but the irony in this thread is IVB would already be a great upgrade for him.

 

[blackened23]

Is this some elaborate troll or what? A10? Really? Just...really?

Oh, and there's the fact that Haswell is twice as fast in terms of CPU brute force over the C2Q.....let's just completely overlook this fact.

 

[Maximilian]

I waited a long time for Haswell. I'm on a Q9450. This was supposed to be the big kahoonah. Amazing CPU increase, amazing GPU increase.

Huge letdown, for me, of Bulldozer proportions.
I was a fan of the A10 as I feel it's the way to go overall (little less CPU power, but more than my Q9450 which is still fast in my book and has a great GPU for a backup).
Now I'm still a fan of the A10 5800K. The current A10 and beyond are the ticket. The Kaveri refresh is the most exciting thing going on.

I'm still reviewing what Intel has (or more appropriately, doesn't have...) and might build a replacement for the Q9450 rig with Haswell.. but I use USB 3.0 and the USB3 bug with Haswell is the nail in the coffin. All 3 major consoles being on AMD is another nail about to be hammered.

Here's to the A6/A8/A10 series (glad that finally got a decent naming scheme, another thing they have on Intel). Looking forward to Kaveri.

Yeah the amazing CPU increase will probably come a few years later when AVX2 gets used a lot more and by that time noone will give a monkeys about haswell Like athlon64 and its 64 bitness, a necessary step for progress but not a must have on release.

 

[Obsoleet]

its like people are still in 1999 and have no idea what tick-tock is. Intel refreshes yearly now we aren't going to see the big jumps between generations like in the past.

but the irony in this thread is IVB would already be a great upgrade for him.

No, it's really not. I have an IB laptop.

Yeah the amazing CPU increase will probably come a few years later when AVX2 gets used a lot more and by that time noone will give a monkeys about haswell Like athlon64 and its 64 bitness, a necessary step for progress but not a must have on release.

This I'd agree with. +1

 

[RU482]

call it a failure, whatever you want. I bet the power savings of the highest end i7 vs the lowest end FX CPU would pay for the i7 over a 5 year period

/for the record, completely pulled that out of my arse

 

[Ayah]

No, it's really not. I have an IB laptop.

laptop != desktop.

For compute performance, desktop IVB with a proportional overclock will still smack that yorkfield around.

Haswell's a mobile chip extended to the desktop and still focuses on compute performance on the desktop. The premise of AMD's APUs focus on graphics performance with "good enough" compute otherwise they wouldn't have the Visheras AND APUs. On the other hand, Intel only has Haswell to compete in 2 different categories.

 

[Enigmoid]

That's fine, and I recognize that.
But honestly, who cares?

I haven't upgraded my Q9450 because I haven't needed to. Though to be fair, I've had it OC'd to 3ghz since the day I bought it (launch day for the Q9450). It might be a tad slow without that.

I'm looking for the best APU, whether that be from Intel or AMD. The A10 has enough CPU power and better GPU power. It's not as strong as I'd like, but it is the best we have overall. They can be had for $110 on Newegg right now.

I've been attracted to the A10 5800 since it was released. I figured Haswell was the Trinity killer, but it's just not.
Given the expectations myself and other's had of Haswell, the biggest tock Intel was supposed to have in a LONG time, and will REMAIN the biggest tock of a long time into the future if you believe Intel.. I think it's time to hang up our hats on expecting big boosts ever again in the x86 market.
Unless you're excited about AMD's APU improvements, which I personally find more exciting at this point due to the opportunity to shed a standalone video card at some point in the near future.

We'll see what AMD can bring us, maybe an advantage based on their console design wins. If nothing else, working USB 3.0 (which I've been using for years now..), but I'm giving up on Intel.

If you look at reviews the a10 is like 30-35% faster than the gt2 haswell model. There is a very small space there where the a10 is worthwhile over a discrete card.

With your system the change to the a10 is pretty much worthless.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/675?vs=51

With your overclock you are pretty much the same as the a10-5800k.

Just buy a 7750 for $90 and call it a day.

Spending hundreds of dollars for a new cpu + mobo + ram for the same cpu performance and very lacklustre gpu performance is kinda silly. The 4770k is around 2-2.5 times faster than your q9450.

Plus the fact that trinity/richland are completely different from the ps4/xbox one chips means that there are no optimizations there.

 

[notty22]

I have no idea what that rambling open post has to do with the thread title. Attention whoring, I guess.

 

[Obsoleet]

laptop != desktop.

For compute performance, desktop IVB with a proportional overclock will still smack that yorkfield around.

That just doesn't mean anything to me though. I do programming on this machine, I run multiple VMs, it acts as our media server HTPC, I play games on it (Chivalry, Killing Floor, ect) it does the job well.
The only thing getting smacked around would be my wallet for no reason.

My i5-640M might not be a desktop chip, but it's still faster than my Q9450 and again, makes no difference in my day-to-day use. I've been using computers since 1986, a Commodore. First "PC" was a 286. I used to go in and hand optimize my conventional, extended and expanded memory. The days replacing stuff because it was actually slow for me, are pretty much over.

I replaced many machines since the mid-80s because they were too slow, I'm not having that problem anymore. Haswell doesn't offer me anything the A10 doesn't to be honest.

From an old timer's perspective, the A10 offers me more. And that's not even Kaveri (yet).

With your system the change to the a10 is pretty much worthless.

I agree. That's why I was eagerly waiting for Haswell. I was hoping at minimum, my rig wouldn't have a major component break until Haswell. It was the major CPU increase in generations, the new "C2D" (though I had the P4M/Core1 before that).. and it was supposed to lay waste to AMD's APUs. So I wouldn't have to even look at AMD anymore, as I was pretty much already convinced in the merits of the A10 over IB.

Now that it was a big disappointment I'm just hoping it makes it to Kaveri. That said, if it broke tomorrow it'd be replaced with the A10 5800K (with my 5870 of course).

 

[Torn Mind]

The A10 is only slightly faster than a Q9650 and its GPU is worse than a 6670. It's beauty is that you get all of that in a ~$120 package. It saves people money. That is its strength, because its performance is certainly not "enthusiast class".

 

[Tsavo]

Trolls gonna troll.

 

[Torn Mind]

Now that it was a big disappointment I'm just hoping it makes it to Kaveri. That said, if it broke tomorrow it'd be replaced with the A10 5800K (with my 5870 of course).

Tell me why are you eschewing AMD's FX-43xx and FX-63xx chips in that scenario. The presence of L3 cache is more suitable than the redundant and inferior iGPU since you already have a discrete card and that L3 cache does help in some games. The upgrade path is also superior, since the FX-8350 certainly has the grunt to run many VMs.

 

[Sheep221]

The haswell may have some sings of failure but that's about it, Intel now focuses more on improving power saving and increasing IGP performance to increase the battery duration on laptops and tablets. The performance-wise they are very much intact from IB, what I consider as step down is that they featured a new socket, huge mistake, with so low performance difference and allmost no focus on the desktop units, they want us to buy new mobos, no way. My SB still rocks.

 

[Hypertag]

What is it with these over-the-top hyperbole laden blogposts that needlessly get posted as their own threads instead of simply being a single post added to any one of the existing threads in the forum?

This forum is basically AMDzone II at this point. The AMD fanboys are like sharks in the water. Intel released a tiny drop of blood in the water with Haswell, and now all of them are trying to get some prey.

Why exactly is Haswell horrible? Who knows. Why exactly is it worse than bulldozer in their mind? Who knows. What actual evidence do they have to support any of their claims, acusations, or statements? None.

It is what? 5% better than Ivy Bridge. That is better. AMD couldn't compete with Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, and haswell does nothing to remotely charge that at all. Of course that doesn't matter. AMD fanboys get gitty if a FX-6300 can kind of come close to matching the Core i5 750, as if that is the current $200 Intel CPU or something.

Wait for Broadwell with 80EUs and CrystalWall to really hit the AMD fanboys hard. Too bad it won't do anything in the desktop space

 

[ElFenix]

" (though I had the P4M/Core1 before that)

P4M wasn't Core 1.

 

[spartan805]

Haswell is going to be great for the mobile market....... Graphics as better than HD 4000, How is this BD?

 

[grkM3]

How exactly is a chip that is 5-10% faster in CPU performance anything near the utter crapdozer amd put out?

Yeah it runs hot under load but actually does more under load then sandy and ivy and blows the doors off anything that amd could of built

Haters gona hate

 

[VirtualLarry]

I agree with the OP. I was looking to build a new rig soon, "for fun", and I was looking at 1150 ITX boards. But Newegg only has Haswell quads, and who wants a first-gen chipset with USB problems.

So I started looking at FM2 ITX boards. I like the ASRock A85X one.

Only problem is, because AMD uses "modules", I want a dual-module chip. And the only Richland chip on newegg is their uber-low-end one, an A4-4000, which probably doesn't have the GPU power I want.

Maybe I'll just put the Q9300 @ 3.0 rig back in.

 

[erunion]

This forum is basically AMDzone II at this point. The AMD fanboys are like sharks in the water. Intel released a tiny drop of blood in the water with Haswell, and now all of them are trying to get some prey.

Why exactly is Haswell horrible? Who knows. Why exactly is it worse than bulldozer in their mind? Who knows. What actual evidence do they have to support any of their claims, acusations, or statements? None.

There is actually a perfect consistency at work here. These people labeled Bulldozer the victor before its release, they also labeled IVB and now HSW failures before they released.

Obviously we know how accurate they were about bulldozer, they are just as (in)accurate about HSW.

Though, I have to say threads about AMDs impending dominance or intels demise are just plain entertaining.

 

[Dizon]

Now that it was a big disappointment I'm just hoping it makes it to Kaveri. That said, if it broke tomorrow it'd be replaced with the A10 5800K (with my 5870 of course).

I don't get this??? You're gonna keep using the 5870 with the A10... Why the hell do you even care about the iGPU? Doesn't that defeat the point you were trying to make about Haswell and its inferior iGPU compared to AMD's solution if you're just going to use your discrete card anyway?