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The Jussie Smollett Affair

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soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
15,871
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ShookKnight

Senior member
Dec 12, 2019
646
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Wow, raw nerves are a thing on the internet.

I take it any cover-ups of wrong doing (treason, corruption, high crimes) are not an issue when a certain President is involved.

That's some mighty fine Law & Order going on...

JFC.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
103,512
18,067
136
QUICK!

DIVERT! DIVERT!

WHAT-ABOUT! WHAT-ABOUT!



Take your shills elsewhere.
except...that's exactly what you're doing by over-indulging in the seeming importance of the one Jussie Smollet case for every 100 or more criminal officers/actual redneck racist crimes.

because, in your mind, the limited anecdotal events must be outweighed against the vast majority of other crimes because...ah fuck I have no idea what makes you people tick. I've always assumed it's some combo of pencil shavings and Sterno.
 
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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,632
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I wish conservatives were as concerned with the prosecution of police officers who fake crimes and the DAs that protect them.
I'll need to find the articles I read about this from the OC Register and SacBee, but a recent audit of the Orange county, CA sheriffs dept found that of the prosecuted cases within the audit sample (approx 500), 46% of those involving evidence did not have any evidence submitted.
I mean, stop and think about that. In nearly half of cases in which persons were convicted for a crime on the basis of evidence (read: drugs), that evidence was either grossly mishandled ("lost"), or the evidence never existed in the first place (most likely IMO).

But hey, let's not worry about stuff like that because it might hurt the feels of some racist dbags.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,069
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I'll need to find the articles I read about this from the OC Register and SacBee, but a recent audit of the Orange county, CA sheriffs dept found that of the prosecuted cases within the audit sample (approx 500), 46% of those involving evidence did not have any evidence submitted.
I mean, stop and think about that. In nearly half of cases in which persons were convicted for a crime on the basis of evidence (read: drugs), that evidence was either grossly mishandled ("lost"), or the evidence never existed in the first place (most likely IMO).

But hey, let's not worry about stuff like that because it might hurt the feels of some racist dbags.
In recent months the DAs of multiple NYC boroughs have made public their lists of officers that they will not call to testify in cases because they have deemed them not credible. Police officers fabricate evidence against people so often they even have a nickname for it - 'testilying'.


Are these people fired? Almost never. Are they prosecuted? Almost never. There are certainly people in prison today because of these lies and yet conservatives don't care.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,632
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In recent months the DAs of multiple NYC boroughs have made public their lists of officers that they will not call to testify in cases because they have deemed them not credible. Police officers fabricate evidence against people so often they even have a nickname for it - 'testilying'.


Are these people fired? Almost never. Are they prosecuted? Almost never. There are certainly people in prison today because of these lies and yet conservatives don't care.
I believe it's because conservatives' deep commitment to freedom and small govt just forces them to look away from out-in-the-open govt abuses that lead to innocent people losing their freedoms.

/s
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,047
9,924
136
I wish conservatives were as concerned with the prosecution of police officers who fake crimes and the DAs that protect them.
Conservatives only want to see brown people prosecuted.

I could post the worst story about a white person and the response would "Well I need to hear the other side of the story"
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,069
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I believe it's because conservatives' deep commitment to freedom and small govt just forces them to look away from out-in-the-open govt abuses that lead to innocent people losing their freedoms.

/s
That's a good point. Their ideology commands they not attempt to use the heavy hand of government to control whether or not police can perjure themselves to send people to prison.
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
26,975
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Conservatives only want to see brown people prosecuted.

I could post the worst story about a white person and the response would "Well I need to hear the other side of the story"
At the risk of giving this post any undeserved dignity, what a steaming load of race baiting horse shit. You want better race relations? This is not helping. You will find whatever in this world you choose to focus on. You're not the only one participating in this, so does the media. I, for one, find it a disgusting waste of creative resources and the world would be a better place when people like yourself stop trying to malign everyone who has political difference to you. Sometimes people commit crimes and they don't get a pass just because they belong to a particular ethnicity.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,047
9,924
136
At the risk of giving this post any undeserved dignity, what a steaming load of race baiting horse shit. You want better race relations? This is not helping. You will find whatever in this world you choose to focus on. You're not the only one participating in this, so does the media. I, for one, find it a disgusting waste of creative resources and the world would be a better place when people like yourself stop trying to malign everyone who has political difference to you. Sometimes people commit crimes and they don't get a pass just because they belong to a particular ethnicity.
While engaging in a bit of hyperbole go read my "existing while black" thread. There is an element of truth in it.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,069
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At the risk of giving this post any undeserved dignity, what a steaming load of race baiting horse shit. You want better race relations? This is not helping. You will find whatever in this world you choose to focus on. You're not the only one participating in this, so does the media. I, for one, find it a disgusting waste of creative resources and the world would be a better place when people like yourself stop trying to malign everyone who has political difference to you. Sometimes people commit crimes and they don't get a pass just because they belong to a particular ethnicity.
Yes if there's one thing the justice system is known for it's going too easy on black and Hispanic people.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
14,331
4,612
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State Attorney Kim Foxx that dropped charges on Smugglette just lawyered up. Shit's about to get real yo.

It's time for an anal reaming on this dumb bitch.


why you do dis?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,632
7,693
126
At the risk of giving this post any undeserved dignity, what a steaming load of race baiting horse shit. You want better race relations? This is not helping. You will find whatever in this world you choose to focus on. You're not the only one participating in this, so does the media. I, for one, find it a disgusting waste of creative resources and the world would be a better place when people like yourself stop trying to malign everyone who has political difference to you. Sometimes people commit crimes and they don't get a pass just because they belong to a particular ethnicity.
Then perhaps you have a better explanation for why conservatives, who claim to be so incredibly concerned about freedoms, particularly gun rights, do not give a single rats ass or flying fuck when law enforcement fabricates evidence that leads to convictions which unjustly strips persons of their freedoms, including their gun rights?
What's even better IMO is when conservatives willfully ignore the massive amount of evidence of this occurring (such as missing evidence in 46% of cases in Orange county, CA in which that missing evidence was the basis of the conviction) in order to frame false narratives such as your last sentence. Because this isn't about anyone getting a pass for any reason, including ethnicity. Literally no one wants that or is arguing for that. What people are arguing is that sometimes people don't commit crimes, and they not only don't get a pass, but they get convicted, imprisoned, and stripped of their basic rights as though they did. And the statistics clearly show that this happens to some ethnicities more often than others.
So there just must be some reason why conservatives don't care about govt unjustly stripping gun rights from citizens, and for why they will keep creating these false narratives in order to justify allowing govt to keep doing that.
So please, enlighten us as to what that reason is.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,632
7,693
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Yes if there's one thing the justice system is known for it's going too easy on black and Hispanic people.
There's no doubt IMO that racism and bigotry must play some role in all these false convictions, but not the primary cause. I believe that the real reason conservatives don't care about law enforcement abuses is entirely political and partisan. As in, law enforcement generally votes Republican. And as long as law enforcement does that, and targets their abuses at demographics that largely don't vote Republican, then conservatives don't care. In fact, many of them applaud it.
A good example of this from the converse perspective can be found in conversatives' well-known hatred of public education, because teachers generally vote Democratic. Then suddenly, the same conservatives who don't care one bit about law enforcement fabricating evidence to generate phony convictions which strips citizens of their basic rights, or law enforcement making $200k+/year (with OT) while double-dipping full lifetime retirement benefits for 10 years before they actually retire, will freak out over teachers pushing 'liberal indoctrination,' making $60k/year with a masters degree, and how teacher's pension benefits are going to bankrupt the same PERS funds that they no objections to law enforcement double dipping from.
IOW, all political tribalism. And sure, racism and bigotry play a role in all that, but focusing on those misses the bigger picture.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,069
18,810
136
There's no doubt IMO that racism and bigotry must play some role in all these false convictions, but not the primary cause. I believe that the real reason conservatives don't care about law enforcement abuses is entirely political and partisan. As in, law enforcement generally votes Republican. And as long as law enforcement does that, and targets their abuses at demographics that largely don't vote Republican, then conservatives don't care. In fact, many of them applaud it.
A good example of this from the converse perspective can be found in conversatives' well-known hatred of public education, because teachers generally vote Democratic. Then suddenly, the same conservatives who don't care one bit about law enforcement fabricating evidence to generate phony convictions which strips citizens of their basic rights, or law enforcement making $200k+/year (with OT) while double-dipping full lifetime retirement benefits for 10 years before they actually retire, will freak out over teachers pushing 'liberal indoctrination,' making $60k/year with a masters degree, and how teacher's pension benefits are going to bankrupt the same PERS funds that they no objections to law enforcement double dipping from.
IOW, all political tribalism. And sure, racism and bigotry play a role in all that, but focusing on those misses the bigger picture.
I strongly agree that a large part of the lack of enforcement against police is that they are:
1) politically powerful
2) generally popular with the public and
3) closely aligned with conservatives

It continues to amaze me that in NYC despite huge amounts of documented abuse by the police department there is no mechanism to discipline police other than... other police. Conservatives would never stand for teachers being the only people to decide if you can fire a teacher.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
11,826
6,277
136
I strongly agree that a large part of the lack of enforcement against police is that they are:
1) politically powerful
2) generally popular with the public and
3) closely aligned with conservatives

It continues to amaze me that in NYC despite huge amounts of documented abuse by the police department there is no mechanism to discipline police other than... other police. Conservatives would never stand for teachers being the only people to decide if you can fire a teacher.
There's definitely a double standard here on the right, but the truth is, the unions are a problem in both cases. You'll notice in the article about the San Antonio police who were re-instated that it was due to an arbitration procedure in their union contract. Similarly, it is very difficult to fire tenured teachers, again, because of provisions in their union contracts. I'm generally pro-union but with public employees there has to be the ability to terminate people who are incompetent or worse and the unions make that very difficult.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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There's definitely a double standard here on the right, but the truth is, the unions are a problem in both cases. You'll notice in the article about the San Antonio police who were re-instated that it was due to an arbitration procedure in their union contract. Similarly, it is very difficult to fire tenured teachers, again, because of provisions in their union contracts. I'm generally pro-union but with public employees there has to be the ability to terminate people who are incompetent or worse and the unions make that very difficult.
I 100% agree. The main problem with firing teachers is that it's nearly impossible to get people to agree on the goal of education so it's hard to say how good a job someone is doing at it.

That being said, it can be hard to fire teachers even in cases of egregious misconduct, which is insane.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,268
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There's definitely a double standard here on the right, but the truth is, the unions are a problem in both cases. You'll notice in the article about the San Antonio police who were re-instated that it was due to an arbitration procedure in their union contract. Similarly, it is very difficult to fire tenured teachers, again, because of provisions in their union contracts. I'm generally pro-union but with public employees there has to be the ability to terminate people who are incompetent or worse and the unions make that very difficult.
I was a student in NY, and I know for a fact it can be almost impossible to fire a teacher there after probationary period. Had a class in programming in high school where the teacher knew absolutely nothing about the subject. Students complained, but she still was able to ride that gravy train with no regard to performance metrics. Shee-it, even had a history teacher there make a point about pure democracy being unworkable by saying he could leave the room and still get the paycheck while we would determine then what we would do in the class. The problem with cops is very similar.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,017
571
126
It's directly on topic, you just don't want to address it. It is vastly more frequent and more consequential when law enforcement fabricates crimes against citizens and DAs routinely gloss over it yet I see no outrage threads about it and certainly people not keeping up with the intimate details.

I wonder why that is. Why do you think?
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,069
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Lol, pathetic.

The exact thing conservatives are pretending to be concerned about here happens every day, all over America, and you never hear a peep. It ruins lives, destroys families, and corrupts our legal system and you say nothing. As soon as a minority lies about a crime though you’re all over it.

Why do you think that is?
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,017
571
126
Lol, pathetic.

The exact thing conservatives are pretending to be concerned about here happens every day, all over America, and you never hear a peep. It ruins lives, destroys families, and corrupts our legal system and you say nothing. As soon as a minority lies about a crime though you’re all over it.

Why do you think that is?
The obvious answer, the only explanation progressives have for anything: We harbor a deep-seated and eternal animosity for minorities. Right up to the point that we marry them.

Are you happy? Could you cease with the diversion?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,069
18,810
136
The obvious answer, the only explanation progressives have for anything: We harbor a deep-seated and eternal animosity for minorities. Right up to the point that we marry them.

Are you happy? Could you cease with the diversion?
It’s not a diversion, it’s directly relevant to the topic. You guys claim to care about people falsely reporting crimes. If this is the case there’s a nationwide endemic problem among law enforcement with this.

Everybody agrees what this guy did was bad, I hope they prosecute him. Now if you ACTUALLY care about this why not discuss the larger problem? Why not push for prosecutions of police, removal of immunities, etc. so we can put the people who do this every day behind bars where they belong?

Seriously, you should demand your city fire and prosecute more cops.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,017
571
126
It’s not a diversion, it’s directly relevant to the topic. You guys claim to care about people falsely reporting crimes. If this is the case there’s a nationwide endemic problem among law enforcement with this.

Everybody agrees what this guy did was bad, I hope they prosecute him. Now if you ACTUALLY care about this why not discuss the larger problem? Why not push for prosecutions of police, removal of immunities, etc. so we can put the people who do this every day behind bars where they belong?

Seriously, you should demand your city fire and prosecute more cops.
Find me cases and I'll do just that if the facts warrant it. This is a standout story for more reasons than just falsely reporting crimes. It's the same exact dynamic as the Covington HS controversy: Party A, to which the broader culture and media is sympathetic, makes accusation that confirms the worst biases about Party B. Media falls for it like eggs from a tall chicken. Meanwhile, facts start to emerge that contradict and even reverse the desired story, and the victim turns out to be the perpetrator.

It's a cautionary tale about nemesis and the destructive power of lies, especially when the lie is very popular. Not every falsely-reported crime tells a story this good.

EDIT: Admittedly, the media didn't seem to fall for this story quite as hard as it did for the Covington HS controversy. There was some skepticism, or at least a reaction short of full-throated support, shortly after the allegation was made, even among left-wing outlets.
 
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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,632
7,693
126
It’s not a diversion, it’s directly relevant to the topic. You guys claim to care about people falsely reporting crimes. If this is the case there’s a nationwide endemic problem among law enforcement with this.

Everybody agrees what this guy did was bad, I hope they prosecute him. Now if you ACTUALLY care about this why not discuss the larger problem? Why not push for prosecutions of police, removal of immunities, etc. so we can put the people who do this every day behind bars where they belong?

Seriously, you should demand your city fire and prosecute more cops.
You realize that their cognitive dissonance protecting a mentality that doesn't question authority is just going to have them keep assuming you're calling them racists, right? Because that's easier than internally questioning their motives wrt Smollett and this new idea you've placed before them.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,632
7,693
126
Find me cases and I'll do just that if the facts warrant it. This is a standout story for more reasons than just falsely reporting crimes. It's the same exact dynamic as the Covington HS controversy: Party A, to which the broader culture and media is sympathetic, makes accusation that confirms the worst biases about Party B. Media falls for it like eggs from a tall chicken. Meanwhile, facts start to emerge that contradict and even reverse the desired story, and the victim turns out to be the perpetrator.

It's a cautionary tale about nemesis and the destructive power of lies, especially when the lie is very popular. Not every falsely-reported crime tells a story this good.
And to fix all that, the 'free speech warrior' MAGAs are gonna silence any free speech they disagree with through litigation.

Meanwhile, speaking of media lies, when are you going to accept any accountability for your role in facilitating these media lies?

 
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