I believe you did not read my entire post. I did not claim that Allah put man's soul into animal homosapiens. Please read (from my earlier post):
Also, my earlier post says:
Adam IS created from clay:
Source
Complete Quranic verse 32:7-8:
The fluid is thought by most interpretors to be semen, few hold it as water.
The gist of the above is Islam recognizes man's creation to be a special case but it does not preclude the theory of evolution of animals.
Ok, you're right. Jesus was not put on a cross. I still don't see how that damages Islam or makes a difference if I was right or wrong. Everything else I said was correct.
The soruce where I got the information was wrong. I thought it was correct since they had references to the Quran, but you're right.
You accused me of doing damage ot Islam. I don't think it matters how Jesus died ... not to me at least.
Where did I label Jesus as bad? Jesus is not bad. All I said was that Jesus is not a God.
The soruce where I got the information was wrong. I thought it was correct since they had references to the Quran, but you're right.
You accused me of doing damage ot Islam. I don't think it matters how Jesus died ... not to me at least.
Where did I label Jesus as bad? Jesus is not bad. All I said was that Jesus is not a God.
Your beliefs are incorrect
You clearly are implying the possibility that Allah somehow put souls into the evolved creatures known as homosapiens. Then you dismiss any investigation into the area by claiming Allah bans such information. What a cop-out.
How convenient of him.
I posted an argument which explored the possibility of souls being put in homosapiens. That may be a possibility, but no evidence exists as such from a theological viewpoint.
From my earlier post again:
Islam recognizes man's creation to be a special case but it does not preclude the theory of evolution of animals
Thank you for your post. I dont understand how this post has anything to do with this thread. Do you have a question regarding Islamic law and beliefs?
Regarding your last question, I never claimed you said labelled as bad. Neither in the PM, nor in this thread.
For the LAST time, Islamic view is that Jesus did NOT die. I have given evidence of this view in my above post, as well as told you via PM that he did NOT die.
Please limit your discussion to the topic of this thread. I would also appreciate it if you could reference the claims in your posting and try to present correct information.
I said you're right on Jesus. Do you want a cookie? Did I go against what you said? NO.
You also PMd me asking what my education is. I'm in med school. I don't see how that matters on a political thread on religion. I also don't see how I am any smarter than a person who goes to community college. Most people in my class are book smart and are clueless when it comes to topics outside math and science.
You are not a Quran scholar to sit here and dispute everyone's opinion as incorrect just because your views different with theirs. You do exactly what I do. You go to your Islamic websites and you post from there. Except your sites agree with your fanatical views.
You said all my post lack a total comprehension of already stated things? Such as what? That Jesus didn't die? How many cookies do you want? Sultan is right on Jesus. This proves he is the master of the Quran.
You're not no scholar and you are spreading crap and misinformation. My post on Jesus does not damage Islam and if anyone here thinks it does then please say so.
I've already said your Pakistani views are not what other Muslims believe in. You are nothing more than a Taliban. Taliban were not even Afghan. They were Pakistani. Of course I will butt in a thread where a Taliban is trying to teach people about Islam.
Look at the way you act. I say something wrong about Jesus and you act like I should die. Fanatical wacko ->. Thank God we are in the U.S. You might order whip lashes on me.
I would like to take a minute and explain why I am bringing up science so much. The intention of this thread was to explain Islam to the mostly non-muslim audience here at AT. I think this is a good idea and commend Sultan and the other Muslims for their time and effort.
The reason such a thread is needed is because of the current situation where Islam and the western world are having difficulties coexisting. These difficulties have arisen due to the way the world is changing so rapidly and becoming less and less seperated inspite of the geographic seperation.
Why is the world becoming a smaller place? Technology!
What is responsible for all the technological changes? Science!
We have to learn to coexist in todays world and it seems to many westerners that it is the Muslim people who are having the greatest difficulties in learning to exist peacefully with different religions and views. Why is it that so many muslims cheered when the trade centers went down?
I think it is because most M.E citizens quality of life is lower than in the west. They want what we in the west have, prosperity. They resent the west and are frustrated that their countries are corrupt and not as powerful as the US.
All I want to suggest is that Islam is a very strong religion. By this I mean that it has many converts and hardly any muslims abandon Islam. Islam does a good job of explaining things and keeping muslims from straying too far from the Qu'ran. Christianity seems like a weaker religion. It is easier for Christians to abandon the faith. It is easier for christians to interpret the faith differently than what the church says. This is what has been going on for the last couple hundred years.
It is this weakness in Christianity that I think has allowed science to explode in the west. Many scientific findings (like evolution, planetary motion...) have been in opposition to Christianity and religion in general . If all of the world was under Islamic control I seriously wonder if a lot of the great scientific breakthroughs would have occured.
This is why I believe Muslims need to reject the fundamentalists like Osama and modernise their faith. I'm not trying to say Muslim's are bad people whatsoever. I just think Islam needs a reformation of some kind. Especially in regards to Islamic law and the belief that religion and government should be united. I think the seperation of church and state is one of the best ideas that muslims need to borrow from the west.
I also am not coming from the Christian perspective that bible is right and the Quran is wrong. I have many problens with both religions, it's just that I would fear living under a christian majority less that an Islamic majority.
The reason such a thread is needed is because of the current situation where Islam and the western world are having difficulties coexisting. These difficulties have arisen due to the way the world is changing so rapidly and becoming less and less seperated inspite of the geographic seperation.
Why is the world becoming a smaller place? Technology!
What is responsible for all the technological changes? Science!
We have to learn to coexist in todays world and it seems to many westerners that it is the Muslim people who are having the greatest difficulties in learning to exist peacefully with different religions and views. Why is it that so many muslims cheered when the trade centers went down?
I think it is because most M.E citizens quality of life is lower than in the west. They want what we in the west have, prosperity. They resent the west and are frustrated that their countries are corrupt and not as powerful as the US.
All I want to suggest is that Islam is a very strong religion. By this I mean that it has many converts and hardly any muslims abandon Islam. Islam does a good job of explaining things and keeping muslims from straying too far from the Qu'ran. Christianity seems like a weaker religion. It is easier for Christians to abandon the faith. It is easier for christians to interpret the faith differently than what the church says. This is what has been going on for the last couple hundred years.
It is this weakness in Christianity that I think has allowed science to explode in the west. Many scientific findings (like evolution, planetary motion...) have been in opposition to Christianity and religion in general . If all of the world was under Islamic control I seriously wonder if a lot of the great scientific breakthroughs would have occured.
This is why I believe Muslims need to reject the fundamentalists like Osama and modernise their faith. I'm not trying to say Muslim's are bad people whatsoever. I just think Islam needs a reformation of some kind. Especially in regards to Islamic law and the belief that religion and government should be united. I think the seperation of church and state is one of the best ideas that muslims need to borrow from the west.
I also am not coming from the Christian perspective that bible is right and the Quran is wrong. I have many problens with both religions, it's just that I would fear living under a christian majority less that an Islamic majority.
Thank you for another mindless post. If you have any question about Islam, please ask. Otherwise, take your insults and insolent remarks elsewhere.
Have they not taught you to stick to the topic in Med School?
Thank you for your post. I agree with most of your views. The one above needs a bit of clarification, and even though it is off-topic, I'd like to answer it.
It is incorrect to assume the Middle East resent the West. The quality of life is quite high in many Arab nations, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, even Saudi Arabia have high standards of living. The resentment of many Arabs is not directed towards the "West". If that was so, Western countries with a higher standard of living, such as Switzerland would be the victim of horrific attacks like 9/11. The resentment of this country in particular amongst the Arabs is due to the foreign policies of this government. Hope that made a difference to your views. I'll leave it at that.
Steven Barnes did an alternative history book called "Lion's Blood" that changed a few events that led to downturn of Islam such that in his book Islam rules the world (Arabs brought the Europeans to Bilalistan (America) as slaves). Little relation to this thread, but it is a good book, but a little sad at points.
Steven Barnes seems to place the largest change on plagues. The Justinianic plague that hit a lot of the Arabs around 540 reduced the population to 60% of what it was a hundred years before, equivalent to the effect of the bubonic plague. Arabs were hit again by the bubonic plague, as was Europe. "In 544, Justinian issued a law which vetoed pay increases", which is one of the things that helped Europe recover from the bubonic plague. In addition, after the plagues the Arabs did not have a baby boom like occurred after the bubonic plague in Europe. For reference, the bubonic plague did not hit Europe until the early 1330s. Barnes changed it so the Justinianic plague hit Europe and a Black Nile plague hit Egypt although he does not specifically mention that this is what he is changing.
http://www.loyno.edu/~history/journal/1996-7/Smith.html
http://www.planetpapers.com/Assets/3755.php
"YUSUFALI: Why do not the rabbis and the doctors of Law forbid them from their (habit of) uttering sinful words and eating things forbidden? Evil indeed are their works."
"PICKTHAL: Why do not the rabbis and the priests forbid their evil-speaking and their devouring of illicit gain? Verily evil is their handiwork."
I agree that there is a difference between calling someone evil and calling the deeds evil. The misinterpretation was my own, as I am not used to this style of English. My apologies, but that is why I am asking for your help in interpretation. I should have worded it as a question rather than a statement.
What does it mean to say, "Allah's hand is tied up?" Is there a history of this being said?
Nonetheless, what does this have to do with "war from Allah and His Messenger?" I this instructing messengers to war with those who practice usury or what does it just mean that those that practice taking interest will be punished by Allah.
I should have mentioned that I had looked them up in a dictionary, but dictionaries are not known for their understanding of non-Christian religions.
"Webster's Dictionary, 4th edition states: Witch: 1. A person believed to practice magic, esp. black magic. 2. An ugly or mean old woman; hag. 3. To bewitch." This was much to the offense of a Wiccan friend of mine, who was actually rather cute and practiced the religion and spirituality, not what people generally would consider "magic." The core belief in what she followed was the three-fold law summarized as "In all harm none, do as you will" or "If there is absolutely no harm done by your actions or inactions insofar as you and those you are close to or Working with can possibly imagine, then go ahead and do or not do it. If there is ANY chance of harm being done by your actions or inaction, DON'T." Definitely a pagan religion that I personally do not believe in, but I have a lot of respect for other people's beliefs and it is not the ugly thing the dictionary was making it out to be.
One of my high school history books said that Hebrew meant something like "those that walk in dirt" along with many other things that seemed to have no merit.
This is why I did not ask a dictionary for the answer.
Thank you for your response.
Of course, that was before Islam. The plague of 540 was the bubonic plague; earlier outbreaks are generally worse than later ones, when the bubonic plague killed about 25% of Europeans in the 14th century. The main historical effect of Justinian's Plague was to prevent Justinian's attempt at making the Roman Empire whole again by reconquering the West from succeeding. He did reconquer north Africa, Italy, and coastal Spain, but the plague cost too many lives for the Empire to hold the West.
I am glad I could be of help.
I think the phrase means that the Jews are saying God does not give or spend in His bounty. I have seen several sources confirming this. I have not come across a different interpretation. This goes in line with the following sentence as well. Again, I am quoting the entire verse.
No, I dont see how these verses say that the Muslims willhave to go to war with anyone and everyone practicing Usury.
I believe thats a good answer to your question. Being an Arab does not mean being a Muslim. An Arab can be of any faith. A Muslim is a follower of Islam, which is a religion.
Not necessarily Aimster. You have stated you don't fast for Ramadan, you eat pork, and I beleive you have said you did not pray (I can't be sure and if i'm wrong there I retract that statement). To say that the majority of Muslims hold your view is not true. Of course I'm sure there is a sizable amount of Muslims that are also the same as Christian "CEOs" (Christmas Easter Only for Church attendence), but not like how you see it.
I think it is necessary for ANY Muslim to atleast accomplish the three things I mentioned. On that accord I fully agree with Sultan. But at the same time I disagree with his notions of speaking with women, and the application of the Shariah because the rules for survival today are much different.
I try see myself as a progressive Muslim, yet I try to stay close to principles of Islam. Does that make me a fundamentalist to you? And I a whacko and do insults need to be thrown at me? And Aimster, try to refrain from throwing insults like crazy; it really doesn't amount to much.
I love how people flock to Sultan's defense. I also love how random people register for the first time and post for the very first time in this thread. One needs to question who those people are, especially the people who just registered. Someone obviously has told them about P&N and I doubt they came on their own. EX: someone posted for the very first time on anandtech.com they they were a hijabi. Where did she come from?
You are missing the facts. Sultan is a Taliban. I never argued about Ramadan, praying, or eating pork. Did I? Show me where I argued with Sultan about those topics in this thread and you can get a cookie too, but for now I'm keeping the cookie.
You agree with the killing of his child if he/she commits adultery?
You agree that the Taliban were not bad and were good for the Afghan people?
He is the one who says a women needs to lower their face when they talk to a man, but Sultan fails to mention a man must do the same. Why? Because he has no respect for women at all and ignores that part.
You can believe Islamic Law. If your kid in the future ever steals some candy and gets caught, remind me to cut off his finger.
Sultan holds the very beliefs the Taliban believe in. How are the Taliban different from Sultan?
Anyone who is a Taliban is an extremist. I'm not insulting anyone. "fanatical wacko" is hardly an insult. If that offends you then like Arnold says, "You're a girly boy". I'm not going to be nice while someone goes off at me saying I damage Islam because I was wrong on how Jesus died. He could have just corrected me, but he insulted me because Sultan is the great Islam King.. Isn't that a little extreme to you? Sultan has a grudge against me because the very people who are against him on this forum are giving me thumbs up. He finds if so offensive that a "Muslim" is going against another "Muslim". In this Muslim community all you hear about is "poor Arafat". All you hear from me is "who the hell cares you're not a Palestinian so stop caring so much".
What makes you think there are not a lot of Aimsters out there. Because where you come from people are like Sultan? I told you Islam is different for each culture.
Sultan is not a Muslim Scholar. It is like a Christian here making a thread on Christianity. Will he have all the answers? no. This thread might as well be called "Sultan's view on Islam".
You are missing the facts. Sultan is a Taliban. I never argued about Ramadan, praying, or eating pork. Did I? Show me where I argued with Sultan about those topics in this thread and you can get a cookie too, but for now I'm keeping the cookie.
You agree with the killing of his child if he/she commits adultery?
You agree that the Taliban were not bad and were good for the Afghan people?
He is the one who says a women needs to lower their face when they talk to a man, but Sultan fails to mention a man must do the same. Why? Because he has no respect for women at all and ignores that part.
You can believe Islamic Law. If your kid in the future ever steals some candy and gets caught, remind me to cut off his finger.
Sultan holds the very beliefs the Taliban believe in. How are the Taliban different from Sultan?
Anyone who is a Taliban is an extremist. I'm not insulting anyone. "fanatical wacko" is hardly an insult. If that offends you then like Arnold says, "You're a girly boy". I'm not going to be nice while someone goes off at me saying I damage Islam because I was wrong on how Jesus died. He could have just corrected me, but he insulted me because Sultan is the great Islam King.. Isn't that a little extreme to you? Sultan has a grudge against me because the very people who are against him on this forum are giving me thumbs up. He finds if so offensive that a "Muslim" is going against another "Muslim". In this Muslim community all you hear about is "poor Arafat". All you hear from me is "who the hell cares you're not a Palestinian so stop caring so much".
What makes you think there are not a lot of Aimsters out there. Because where you come from people are like Sultan? I told you Islam is different for each culture.
Sultan is not a Muslim Scholar. It is like a Christian here making a thread on Christianity. Will he have all the answers? no. This thread might as well be called "Sultan's view on Islam".
I got a muslim friend, him and his parents are the nicest ppl I have ever met.
But, I also know of a certain 19 muslims that caused 9/11, soooooo...
But, I also know of a certain 19 muslims that caused 9/11, soooooo...
Probably the same kind of mentality that makes America right and all other countries wrong.
That's my guess... New Questions:
What does a muslim need to do in order to go to heaven? There is a heaven in Islam right?
Are most Islamic scholars in agreement to what needs to be done to be "saved"?
Please answer in your own words as a muslim. I can google for the answer myself, but I want to hear some original thoughts here. Yes I realize you guys aren't all Islamic scholars and expected you would need to do some research to answer my evolution questions, but these(above) questions should be common knowledge to all believers in Islam.
What does a muslim need to do in order to go to heaven? There is a heaven in Islam right?
Are most Islamic scholars in agreement to what needs to be done to be "saved"?
Please answer in your own words as a muslim. I can google for the answer myself, but I want to hear some original thoughts here. Yes I realize you guys aren't all Islamic scholars and expected you would need to do some research to answer my evolution questions, but these(above) questions should be common knowledge to all believers in Islam.
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