The Islamic thread

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Then they really don't have a very high quality of education. I'm simply correcting and clarifying your own statement.

I did not compare the quality of education with any other nation or make it relative to any other nation. My statement is fine. It did not need correction, nor clarification. You can form your own comparisons and disagree if you so wish. No one judges the quality of education in the United States by picking Harvard. Neither did I say these countries have the "highest of all" quality of education.

Please dont contribute to this thread if you wish to argue about nonsensical issues. We've done that plenty in other threads. This thread is meant to be an informative resource about Islamic law, and a source for people to learn about the religion, not debate on the lcorrectness of a SINGLE statement from an entire post.

Again, I'm simply clarifying your statement. When judged against other educational institutions, they are not really at a high level of education.

This is a discussion forum and I am clarifying something that you specifically said.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Then they really don't have a very high quality of education. I'm simply correcting and clarifying your own statement.

I did not compare the quality of education with any other nation or make it relative to any other nation. My statement is fine. It did not need correction, nor clarification. You can form your own comparisons and disagree if you so wish. No one judges the quality of education in the United States by picking Harvard. Neither did I say these countries have the "highest of all" quality of education.

Please dont contribute to this thread if you wish to argue about nonsensical issues. We've done that plenty in other threads. This thread is meant to be an informative resource about Islamic law, and a source for people to learn about the religion, not debate on the lcorrectness of a SINGLE statement from an entire post.

Again, I'm simply clarifying your statement. When judged against other educational institutions, they are not really at a high level of education.

This is a discussion forum and I am clarifying something that you specifically said.

Again, there was no reason for clarification. I was never comparing the educational standards. I just said the quality of education was high, not highest, or higher than US or higher than Namibia. So please stop posting nonsensical comments. If you have a question about Islam, please ask, and I will do my best to answer it.

 

[rufruf44]

Not related to the thread, but Eid Mubarak to all moslem in the board.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: rufruf44
Not related to the thread, but Eid Mubarak to all moslem in the board.

Thank you

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Then they really don't have a very high quality of education. I'm simply correcting and clarifying your own statement.

I did not compare the quality of education with any other nation or make it relative to any other nation. My statement is fine. It did not need correction, nor clarification. You can form your own comparisons and disagree if you so wish. No one judges the quality of education in the United States by picking Harvard. Neither did I say these countries have the "highest of all" quality of education.

Please dont contribute to this thread if you wish to argue about nonsensical issues. We've done that plenty in other threads. This thread is meant to be an informative resource about Islamic law, and a source for people to learn about the religion, not debate on the lcorrectness of a SINGLE statement from an entire post.

Again, I'm simply clarifying your statement. When judged against other educational institutions, they are not really at a high level of education.

This is a discussion forum and I am clarifying something that you specifically said.

Again, there was no reason for clarification. I was never comparing the educational standards. I just said the quality of education was high, not highest, or higher than US or higher than Namibia. So please stop posting nonsensical comments. If you have a question about Islam, please ask, and I will do my best to answer it.

There may have been no reason for clarification in your opinion, but I believe that there is usually a reason for clarification.

You said that the quality of education was high - I'm saying that the quality of education is not high when judging such institutions with others that people in this instance would be more familiar with. I am trying to prevent misinformation while your post was fairly deceiving in nature (IMO).

Clarifying a comment or correcting someone is not 'nonsensical' by any means. If you make a comment then expect to have people discuss it.

So you may continue on, but you should fully expect to receive replies about your own comments

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Then they really don't have a very high quality of education. I'm simply correcting and clarifying your own statement.

I did not compare the quality of education with any other nation or make it relative to any other nation. My statement is fine. It did not need correction, nor clarification. You can form your own comparisons and disagree if you so wish. No one judges the quality of education in the United States by picking Harvard. Neither did I say these countries have the "highest of all" quality of education.

Please dont contribute to this thread if you wish to argue about nonsensical issues. We've done that plenty in other threads. This thread is meant to be an informative resource about Islamic law, and a source for people to learn about the religion, not debate on the lcorrectness of a SINGLE statement from an entire post.

Again, I'm simply clarifying your statement. When judged against other educational institutions, they are not really at a high level of education.

This is a discussion forum and I am clarifying something that you specifically said.

Again, there was no reason for clarification. I was never comparing the educational standards. I just said the quality of education was high, not highest, or higher than US or higher than Namibia. So please stop posting nonsensical comments. If you have a question about Islam, please ask, and I will do my best to answer it.

There may have been no reason for clarification in your opinion, but I believe that there is usually a reason for clarification.

You said that the quality of education was high - I'm saying that the quality of education is not high when judging such institutions with others that people in this instance would be more familiar with. I am trying to prevent misinformation while your post was fairly deceiving in nature (IMO).

Clarifying a comment or correcting someone is not 'nonsensical' by any means. If you make a comment then expect to have people discuss it.

So you may continue on, but you should fully expect to receive replies about your own comments

So you accept that the quality of education is the "highest" if I judge it the aforementioned countries to let say Rwanda? Again, I did not say "highest" in my earlier post, I said high, and I didnt compare to any nation, and therefore my statement was NOT misinformation.

Anyways, continue arguing over this nonsensical issue. I will not feed your trolling anymore. If you have any questions regarding Islam, ask.

 

[Riprorin]

From the Quran: Surah 4: Women--Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. From the Quran: Surah 5: The Table Spread--Christians will be burned in the Fire. Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. From the Quran: Surah 2: The Cow--War is ordained by Allah.

Do these words to believers of Islam sound very peaceful to you?

 

[conjur]

Violence in the Bible
http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/BibleViolence.htm


Some peaceful God. :roll:

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
From the Quran: Surah 4: Women--Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. From the Quran: Surah 5: The Table Spread--Christians will be burned in the Fire. Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. From the Quran: Surah 2: The Cow--War is ordained by Allah.

Do these words to believers of Islam sound very peaceful to you?

Verses taken completely out of context.

These words taken out of context will not sound peaceful to anyone. Thanks for asking.

 

[sixone]

This thread was a great idea, Sultan. Now that I've waded thru all the posts, I think I've got a much better understanding of Islam than I did before.

Tho I should've skipped the last 8 pages or so.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Most of the violence in the Qu'ran can be attributed to mistranslating the nuances of Arabic poetry. It is analogous to taking a colloquial usage of hebrew and translating the Old Testament. The only true way to understand the Qu'ran w/o ambiguity is learning Qu'ranic Arabic.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: conjur
Violence in the Bible
http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/BibleViolence.htm


Some peaceful God. :roll:

What is strange is hardly any Muslim exhibits as blind a hatred for Judaism or Christianity or any other religion as opposed to non-Muslims who vehemently attack the religion. As the link above clearly shows, statements out of context does not translate into the essence of the teaching of the said religion.

And if any Christian will argue that their religion has "evolved" or such statements are no longer believed in, they therefore corrupt the Bible, which was AFAIK, words, events and teachings of Jesus, who is considered to be God by the Christians. Then what exactly do Christians actually believe?

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: sixone
This thread was a great idea, Sultan. Now that I've waded thru all the posts, I think I've got a much better understanding of Islam than I did before.

Tho I should've skipped the last 8 pages or so.

Thank you. I appreciate your kind words and support.

 

[Riprorin]

Are these verses out of contest too?


Muslims will repay Christians with an evil torment for rejecting the Quran?

[6:157] Or lest you (pagan Arabs) should say: "If only the Book had been sent down to us, we would surely have been better guided than they (Jews and Christians)." So now has come unto you a clear proof (the Qur'an) from your Lord, and a guidance and a mercy. Who then does more wrong than one who rejects the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah and turns away therefrom? We shall requite those who turn away from Our Ayat with an evil torment, because of their turning away (from them).

Muslims should fight Christians?

[9:29] Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the
religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Christians are rightfully due painful torment?

[3:188] Think not that those who rejoice in what they have done (or brought about), and love to be praised for what they have not done,- think not you that they are rescued from the torment, and for them is a painful torment.

Muslims will make sure Christians taste the severestTorment for disbelieving the Quran?

[10:68] They (Jews, Christians and pagans) say: "Allah has begotten a son (children)." Glory be to Him! He is Rich (Free of all wants). His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. No warrant you have for this. Do you say against Allah what you know not.

[10:69] Say: "Verily, those who invent lie against Allah will never be successful" -

[10:70] A brief enjoyment in this world! - and then unto Us will be their return, then We shall make them taste the severest torment because they used to disbelieve [in Allah, belie His Messengers, deny and challenge His Ayat (proofs, signs, verses, etc.)].

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Are these verses out of contest too?
....

Yes. Very much so. Thank you for taking the time out to go through the Quran. Can you also please reference the above the anti-Islam propagana website that you visited to post the above verses?

 

[0marTheZealot]

Riprorin, don't you have bible study to prepare for?

Quit sh!tting in a thread with your outlandish and biased sources.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: Riprorin
From the Quran: Surah 4: Women--Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. From the Quran: Surah 5: The Table Spread--Christians will be burned in the Fire. Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. From the Quran: Surah 2: The Cow--War is ordained by Allah.

Do these words to believers of Islam sound very peaceful to you?

Verses taken completely out of context.

These words taken out of context will not sound peaceful to anyone. Thanks for asking.

Can you please provide the contexts and explain a little for those of us who haven't read the Quran? Thanks. (Aimster, please feel free to jump in and answer too, but can you answer *my* post and not Sultan's?)

 

[0marTheZealot]

It is not only context, but proper and full meaning of Qu'ranic Arabic. It is poetry and as such, it is quite difficult to catch the subtle nuances in the word.

AKA "lost in translation."

 

[AreaCode707]

You said via PM you'd give me a more comprehensive answer if I posted this in the thread, so okay.

What do Muslims look forward to next as predicted in their scriptures? What events do you await and why? What do you expect the (perhaps distant) future to look like? Christians, like myself, await the second coming of Christ and I'm curious what Muslims look to in the upcoming years.

 

[0marTheZealot]

What we look forward? The day of judgement. There are a few myths concerning the day of judgement; they sort of resemble the Revelation stories, but in the Qu'ran only the Day of Judgement is mentioned, at least IIRC.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: HotChic
Can you please provide the contexts and explain a little for those of us who haven't read the Quran? Thanks. (Aimster, please feel free to jump in and answer too, but can you answer *my* post and not Sultan's?)

The first corrected verse:

004.089
YUSUFALI: They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden

Read more about the social and historical context of this Surah

A small piece from the above - and please do not take THIS out of context, read the whole of the article regarding the social and historical context.

Clear instructions were also given regarding the attitude they should adopt towards the non-belligerent clans. The most important thing needed at that time was to prepare the Muslims for the bitter struggle with the opponents of Islam. For this purpose greatest importance was attached to their character building, for it was obvious that the small Muslim Community could only come out successful, nay, survive, if the Muslims possessed high moral character. They were, therefore, enjoined to adopt the highest moral qualities and were severely criticized whenever any moral weakness was detected in them.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
What we look forward? The day of judgement. There are a few myths concerning the day of judgement; they sort of resemble the Revelation stories, but in the Qu'ran only the Day of Judgement is mentioned, at least IIRC.

Sultan gave me a longer outline in his PM and said that he'd respond in more detail if I posted, so I'm curious to hear more of the details of exactly what you believe.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: HotChic
Can you please provide the contexts and explain a little for those of us who haven't read the Quran? Thanks. (Aimster, please feel free to jump in and answer too, but can you answer *my* post and not Sultan's?)

Second verse by Riporin...

I have not read, nor heard of any such verse. If Riporin provided me with the verse number, I would be in a better position to explain its context. Here's a translation of Surah 5: Al-Maeda

Please let me know where the words Riporin spoke can be found.

Regarding the concept of Trinity, the Quran says:

005.073
They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

Please note that blasphemers are those who dont believe there is "no god but ONE" God.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: HotChic
Can you please provide the contexts and explain a little for those of us who haven't read the Quran? Thanks. (Aimster, please feel free to jump in and answer too, but can you answer *my* post and not Sultan's?)

Third verse from Riporin - Surah Al-Baqara - The Cow. This Surah is 286 verses long. Here is the translation:

Al-Baqara

I have not as yet read the charge "War is Ordained by Allah" in this Surah. Please let me know if you come across these words.

 

[Riprorin]

Why do Muslims in the West enjoy all freedoms allotted to all citizens of these lands, while Muslim countries do not allow native Christians the same freedom? Muslims in the West build mosques, schools, and educational centers and have access to the media without any restriction. They publicly advertise their activities and are allowed to distribute their Islamic materials freely, while native Christians of any Islamic country are not allowed to do so. Why are Christians in the West allowed to embrace any religion they wish without persecution while a person who chooses to convert to another religion in any Islamic country, is considered an apostate and must be killed if he persists in his apostasy?