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The Intel Atom Thread

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Mar 10, 2006
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at a loss...
You made a statement that Intel didn't have more than ~4% market share and that Intel processors would not be viable for mobile because of "price."

Then, when you are told that Intel had ~25% market share in tablets, you then move the goalposts by saying that Intel shipped them "at a loss."

Which is it? Are Intel chips too expensive to ever gain traction, or is Intel gaining share by selling chips at a loss (implying that OEMs find the "price" attractive enough to use them)?
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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at a loss...
Doesnt matter because they are effectively buying marketshare. While they are working on reducing the weak points (BOM). Marketing, support, R&D etc still cost the same nomatter how many chips you ship. Thats why volume is so important.

Its a common business practice.
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
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first sofia product

http://liliputing.com/2015/05/teclast-x70-3g-first-tablet-with-intel-atom-x3.html

geekbench score posted by someone in comments
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/2026268

puts it around snapdragon 200 performance
This perf is just crap and will not win mobile. Look at the numbers. Mobile loss is perhaps only 3.2b this year but so what? Who care about share at that loss? 3.2b is a frightening amount. Everyone on this planet could get their own a53 incl l1 cpu core for that amount. Internet of things. Lol.
 

kpkp

Senior member
Oct 11, 2012
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You forget the obvious part that Atom runs Android too. Intel shipped 46 million SoCs last year.
8 millions of those Atoms went in to the Zenfones alone, Lenovo also uses some... They don't go all to tablets. Hopefully you didn't base the tablet marketshare on that.
 
Mar 10, 2006
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8 millions of those Atoms went in to the Zenfones alone, Lenovo also uses some... They don't go all to tablets. Hopefully you didn't base the tablet marketshare on that.
46 million is the tablet number; phones are counted separately.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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8 millions of those Atoms went in to the Zenfones alone, Lenovo also uses some... They don't go all to tablets. Hopefully you didn't base the tablet marketshare on that.
Q: Is it a given you can maintain momentum in tablets?

Smith: We started 2014 with zero share, we ended the year exceeding the 40 million-unit target we set. [Intel sold 46 million tablet chips.] That makes us likely the largest merchant supplier in tablets. We’ve demonstrated that this technology is compelling. We’ve started to toggle the developer community over to work on IA [Intel’s instruction set architecture.] That said, we’re losing a lot of money in the segment, so as we move into 2015, our strategy shifts from rapid growth — we want to now grow with the market — to maintaining the share position that we have but improve the profitability of the segment. We have a goal to improve the profit of the segment by $800 million. We’ll continue to provide transparency into the $800 million. We’re certainly not going to turn away volume, but the focus here now is to take the fact that we’ve become the largest player and now start to improve the profitability in the segment. It’s just a shift in priority. We’re losing money, and let’s start improving that profitability position.
Smith=CFO Stacy Smith.
 
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kpkp

Senior member
Oct 11, 2012
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My bad, missed that link/quote.

The question remains, how relevant is the tablet market going to be.
 

bullzz

Senior member
Jul 12, 2013
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@krumme - those perf numbers look similar to qcom 200. these are designed for sub $100 phoenes/tablets like moto e
 

kpkp

Senior member
Oct 11, 2012
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@krumme - those perf numbers look similar to qcom 200. these are designed for sub $100 phoenes/tablets like moto e
It will need to be more in the $50-$60 range because at $100 you can get already a much better MTK6732.
 

Abwx

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2011
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Smith=CFO Stacy Smith.
Smith: We started 2014 with zero share, we ended the year exceeding the 40 million-unit target we set. [Intel sold 46 million tablet chips.]
The bolded is a plain lie, i guess that it s redacted by the source, this is aknowledgment that deceptive marketing campaigns are efficient as Intel are using the term "shipped", they know too well that "sold" would be a fraud, it s enough that the medias translate "shipped" by "sold", and the wording was indeed carefully selected to induce the convenient misleaded thoughts...
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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The bolded is a plain lie, i guess that it s redacted by the source, this is aknowledgment that deceptive marketing campaigns are efficient as Intel are using the term "shipped", they know too well that "sold" would be a fraud, it s enough that the medias translate "shipped" by "sold", and the wording was indeed carefully selected to induce the convenient misleaded thoughts...
And we are to take your word on this? :rolleyes:
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
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@krumme - those perf numbers look similar to qcom 200. these are designed for sub $100 phoenes/tablets like moto e
Nope - its a strawman. A53 is the new low end - and competitor. A53 is already old. And its 0.7mm2 per core. And in order for superior perf w. Intel have nothing that remotely competes with that.
In q3 we have a72 for midrange. Because of 28nm bulk prices they will soon get dangerously close to low end. The acceleration is enormous.
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
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The bolded is a plain lie, i guess that it s redacted by the source, this is aknowledgment that deceptive marketing campaigns are efficient as Intel are using the term "shipped", they know too well that "sold" would be a fraud, it s enough that the medias translate "shipped" by "sold", and the wording was indeed carefully selected to induce the convenient misleaded thoughts...
Well i dont know about you guys. But i have trouble seeing all those tablets beeing used by humans. Perhaps they are invisible? :)

Well seriouse - with a negative revenue (i dont think many actually understand the implications of that) - what does it matter where they end?
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
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But as always competition is great and the pressure from Intel is good for consumers. Samsung goes beserk. Apple the same. And there is arm cores for ultra efficient and medium perf. Buying a cheap Intel nas today is fantastic. Its a nas with a pc slapped on and can work as a server park. Lol.

Heck buy a qnap ts253 for what 400usd - give hell to the official ram restriction and you can boot your nas with 16gb cheap ddr3l working a string of servers on your 4 core nearly pocket size monster.
 

bullzz

Senior member
Jul 12, 2013
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Nope - its a strawman. A53 is the new low end - and competitor. A53 is already old. And its 0.7mm2 per core. And in order for superior perf w. Intel have nothing that remotely competes with that.
In q3 we have a72 for midrange. Because of 28nm bulk prices they will soon get dangerously close to low end. The acceleration is enormous.
again we are talking about $50-70 range here. show me a a53 device in that range

do you honestly think people buying $50 tablets care about mm2 per core or perf/W? also that 0.7mm2 is on 20nm which none of the low end tablets/phones are using

midrange and above is really intel's problem right now. i dont expect that to change until broxton
 

lalla521

Junior Member
Mar 5, 2015
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You made a statement that Intel didn't have more than ~4% market share and that Intel processors would not be viable for mobile because of "price."

Then, when you are told that Intel had ~25% market share in tablets, you then move the goalposts by saying that Intel shipped them "at a loss."

Which is it? Are Intel chips too expensive to ever gain traction, or is Intel gaining share by selling chips at a loss (implying that OEMs find the "price" attractive enough to use them)?
i think you're confusing me with someone else
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,914
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again we are talking about $50-70 range here. show me a a53 device in that range

do you honestly think people buying $50 tablets care about mm2 per core or perf/W? also that 0.7mm2 is on 20nm which none of the low end tablets/phones are using

midrange and above is really intel's problem right now. i dont expect that to change until broxton
What arbitrary numbers are you talking about?

Show me 3.2B and i will show you tablet with even a72 in spades this fall. Tens of millions no problem. The point is - I dont give a crap about what Intel gives away for free.

Its very simple. In no way can sofia compete with a a53 neither for production cost nor efficiency. And battery life matters for the low end market too.

Intels burnrate at mobile a year > amd entire market cap. With that kind of money all kind of fantasy segment can be created.
 
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Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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Asus brings Zenfone 2 to North America for $199 and up





Asus is relatively new to the smartphone market — the company is best known for its laptops, tablets, motherboards, and other PC devices.

But the company launched its first Zenfone product in April of 2014 and Asus says since then it’s become a major player in the sim-free smartphone space. Asus has shipped 10 million Zenfone smartphones to date, and is currently shipping 1.5 million units to date.

There are two models coming to America. Both have 5.5 inch, 1920 x 1080 pixel IPS displays, 802.11ac WiFi, 4G LTE, and dual SIM card slots.

For $299 you can get a model with an Intel Atom Z3580 Moorefield processor, 4GB of RAM and 64GB of storage. A more affordable model with 2GB of RAM and 16GB of storage sells for $199. That model has an Atom Z3560 chip.
Why do you need a smartphone with 4GB of RAM? You probably don’t… but Asus says its phone can handle multitasking more seamlessly than most Android phones, letting you run up to 26 apps at a time without having to worry about throttling.
Great bang for the buck by ASUS. Lot's like a fairly complete package for 1/3-1/2 the price of other flagships.

Unlocked GSM, Dual SIM smartphone with 4G/LTE, and 802.11ac connectivity
64-bit Intel 2.3 GHz Quad Core process with 4GB RAM and 64G storage
5.5-inch IPS full HD display (Gorilla Glass 3); 13MP rear camera and 5MP front camera.
GSM/EDGE (850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz), UMTS/HSPA+/DC-HSDPA (850, 900, 1700/2100, 1900, 2100 MHz), LTE (Bands 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 17, 20).
Available @ Amazon, Newegg, B&H.

AnandTech: ASUS Zenfone 2 Preview













Overall I'm more than pleased with the performance of the ZenFone 2. It's not even worth comparing it to other phones in the $200-300 price range, as it performs at the level of last gen and in some cases current generation flagship smartphones. The GPU in Intel's Moorefield line is definitely the area that needs the most improvement when the next generation of mobile Atom parts comes around. Intel will undoubtably continue to use GPUs from Imagination Technologies, and it will be interesting to see if Intel moves to the PowerVR 7 series with their next generation of SoCs.
? Broxton is based on Intel's own Gen 9, not PowerVR 7.

In terms of performance, the CPU is competitive at times with this year's fastest flagship devices. Apple, Qualcomm, and Samsung should probably be a bit concerned about ASUS and Intel's efforts to get this kind of performance into devices that cost only $200 or $300, as it significantly compresses the gap between them and $650 flagship phones. Meanwhile the GPU is similar in performance to last year's flagship smartphones and tablets. I think the GPU should definitely be the main area of focus for Intel with future SoCs. Otherwise compared to more similar phones in the $200-$300 range, the ZenFone 2 is well ahead when it comes to both CPU and GPU performance.

Based on what I've seen so far, the choice between the ZenFone 2 and other devices at the same price is looking to be an easy choice if you're concerned with performance first and foremost. The bigger question to tackle for our full review may very well be just what tradeoffs you do make between the ZenFone 2 and the major manufacturer's flagship phones. At $199/$299, ASUS isn't intending to go to go head-to-head with the likes of the iPhone and Galaxy S6, but if the ZenFone 2 can deliver enough of the flagship experience then it has the potential to be a spoiler for users who can accept the compromises in exchange for significant savings.
http://anandtech.com/show/9261/asus-zenfone-2-preview/3

Silvermont still compares very favourably in some tests. And Airmont delivers the same or better performance in an ultra small 1mm² core. I hope Goldmont closes the gap between Atom and Core single-thread performance, even if just a bit. Intel has some catching up to do but they're not miles behind the competition IMHO.
 
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coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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Great bang for the buck by ASUS. Lot's like a fairly complete package for 1/3-1/2 the price of other flagships.
Not only that, but judging from what I've seen with their Android BT tablets, they work hard on software support too. They may not be polished products, but it sure helps when you see frequent updates fixing stuff.

They also have one of the few extra UI features that really make sense for well priced mobile devices: a simplified UI mode for kids/elders.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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Not only that, but judging from what I've seen with their Android BT tablets, they work hard on software support too. They may not be polished products, but it sure helps when you see frequent updates fixing stuff.

They also have one of the few extra UI features that really make sense for well priced mobile devices: a simplified UI mode for kids/elders.
The $199 2GB RAM (black color) model is the #2 best selling unlocked cellphone @ Amazon right now, while the $299 4GB RAM model is #7. Very good start for the Moorefield phone.
 
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dahorns

Senior member
Sep 13, 2013
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The $199 2GB RAM (black color) model is the #2 best selling unlocked cellphone @ Amazon right now, while the $299 model is #7. Very good start for the Moorefield phone.
I received mine yesterday. got the 64GB and 4GB ram model. Build quality is very good for a budget phone. The back is plastic, but it is a nice hard plastic. Certainly feels more premium than say the Galaxy SIII or SIV did, but obviously not the same as the newer metal and glass models. Phone is super fast and responsive. The 4gb's of ram basically means apps never have to reload once opened.

Battery life is good so far. Been off charger for almost 9 hours with 3 Hours screen on time and lots of updates and the like going on in the background. Sitting at 40% battery remaining. I expect the battery to be much better when it isn't updating apps and the like in the background all day. Even so, I'm on pace for 5 hours screen on time with 15-18 hours off charger. Not elite battery life, but good for middle of the pack. It is currently running Lollipop 5.0, which was known to have some issues with battery life. I'm hoping that ASUS updates it to 5.1 soon.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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First Samsung 'Chopin' Details Emerge – Atom x5 'Cherry Trail-T' based Android 5.1 Tablet



The mysterious new tablet recently appeared on the Geekbench website where it managed to score 1006 points in single-core and 3450 points in multi-core benchmarks respectively. Based on these spec sheets the Samsung Chopin is powered by a quad-core Intel Atom X5-Z8500 processor running at frequencies of up to 2.24 GHz per core. The processor has 1024 KB of L2 Cache and works side by side with 4 GB of RAM.

Not too many details on what makes this tablet work have been unveiled by Geekbench, but we did learn that the Samsung Chopin is an Android-powered slate running version 5.1 Lollipop. Unfortunately we don’t yet know what type of display, resolution, or form factor / aspect ratio to expect from the Chopin, nor do we have any information regarding the battery, camera, and overall design. What we do know, judging by the tablet’s name, is that it will have LTE connectivity.

One thing we can add is that an Intel Atom X5 processor with 4 GB of RAM could’ve made a very interesting Windows 10 tablet, but unfortunately we don’t see this one coming from Samsung anytime soon.
http://tabtec.com/android/first-hardware-details-on-samsung-chopin-emerge-lte-tablet-powered-by-intel
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/2490707

Almost the same performance as Atom x7 based Surface 3 @ Geekbench. Please launch a x64 Windows 10 version too Samsung.

Braswell Motherboard Surfaces Online: Quad Core 14nm Airmont in ASUS N3150M-E



When Intel initially released its Airmont platforms, Braswell for mini-PCs and Cherry Trail for tablets, it was unclear whether or not we would see custom desktop build equivalents, rather than just pre-built units. All the SoCs in the Braswell range were officially labelled as mobile parts, falling under the Celeron codename, for this reason. Intel has also recently released Xeon D, tackling the SFF space for enterprise use, but in the back of our minds we were always expecting an upgrade to the low-end Bay Trail motherboards with soldered down processors. Having already heard some news on the grapevine, ASUS is first to publicly display their motherboards online (well, one at first), albeit with no link through the main site and as a result this link was passed on to us by SH SOTN.

The N3150M-E is a micro-ATX motherboard with the Celeron N3150 processor built-in, and due to the 6W TDP being low enough, we also get a built in fanless heatsink. Braswell supports two DDR3L-1600 memory channels, and perhaps somewhat oddly we have them both here at right angles to each other. Online Intel lists the maximum memory compatibility for the CPU as 8GB, although the Beebox we reported on earlier is rated for 16GB so I would assume that the motherboard side of the equation should be able to do this too.

There is a full PCIe 2.0 x16 slot with x8 electrical (but might not offer more than x4 due to SoC limitations, and according to the spec sheet is only x1), allowing for those esoteric arrangements of Atom plus discrete graphics or just for an additional PCIe card, such as a RAID card for a storage platform. By default the N3150M-E gives two SATA 6 Gbps ports, a COM header, a USB 2.0 header and a USB 3.0 header. There are also two USB 3.0 ports on the rear, along with a Realtek network port and Realtek ALC887 audio. The audio solution is an upgraded one, with at least PCB separation between the audio channels and a couple of filter caps. Onboard video outputs are via a VGA and a HDMI connector, and we also get an LPT port for good measure.

The Celeron N3150 is a 14nm Airmont based quad core solution, featuring a 1.6 GHz base clock and a 2.08 GHz turbo. Onboard graphics are via Intel’s Gen8, with 12 EUs having a boost frequency of 600 MHz. Technically Brett has already had a quick review of Airmont cores in the Surface 3's Cherry Trail SoC, though it would be interesting to get a desktop variant in to see how the performance compares to previous desktop Atom units.
http://anandtech.com/show/9263/braswell-motherboard-surfaces-online-quad-core-14nm-airmont-in-asus-n3150me

Cherry Trail & Braswell are slowing finding their way to products.
 

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