The Intel Atom Thread

[Sweepr]

As for this chip SDPs , let s take a look :

I just did.

Multithreaded performance puts Bay Trail and AMD's Kabini at similar performance levels. Once again, looking at SoC power however the Atom Z3770 pulls around 2.5W in this test. Looking at the increase in platform power for the A4-5000 here, I'm assuming that the equivalent data for AMD would put Kabini in the 6W range.

Oops.

 

[Abwx]

No chance. Z3770 with up to 2,4 ghz has a 10-20% higher SC performance than 1,5 Ghz Kabini.

Only in integer but in FP it takes thoses 2.4g to equal Kabini ,
but , hey , why not present the things in a misleading way
by involving that s also for FP...

 

[mikk]

15W TDP actualy but it doesnt surprise me that the error
is in a , well , convenient direction , not the first time i see
such misleading infos , from the A4 5000 being a 1.6ghz
chip to kabini or steamroller not being ECC compatible
despite the slides explicitly saying otherwise...

As for this chip SDPs , let s take a look :

1.06 and 1.92W SDPs in two different main usages...
And that s with a chip that is officialy 15W TDP...

These power numbers are roughly a doubling to Bay Trail-M with 7.5W TDP so it's nothing spectacular.

 

[Abwx]

I just did.



Oops.

So in a case he s just assuming without real measurement
and on the other hand he took at face values measurements
that were provided by intel itself using non verifiable settings
and measurements protocols..

 

[mikk]

Only in integer but in FP it takes thoses 2.4g to equal Kabini ,
but , hey , why not present the things in a misleading way
by involving that s also for FP...

Cinebench 11.5 which is FP heavy is +5% faster on Z3770 in SC, plus 32 bit vs 64 bit. More like 15% in Cinebench given that 64 bit version of CB11.5 runs 10% faster.

 

[AtenRa]

Of yourse it can. Gen7 is DX11. As for the gaming, a Windows game not only requires a decent GPU it also requires an appropriate CPU power.

To illustrate it on a A6-1450 8W Temash from Notebookcheck:

The GPU might be good enough for much higer fps but the CPU is often a big bottleneck on Windows gaming. If you are for Windows gaming, a tablet is a very very bad choice.

I can't even believe gaming is being brought up as a subject for a 2W tablet. Such tablets are not designed for gaming, you will not be playing BF3 on these things.

A 2W tablet is just a very very bad choice, as mentioned by mikk. Heck, I wouldn't even game on an ultrabook (aside from undemanding games, such as Torchlight 2 perhaps). Anyone expecting BF3 or Tomb Raider on a 2W tablet or even most ultrabooks is living in a fantasy land.

Someone tell me why gaming is being brought up. That argument is so ridiculous it blows my mind - you can play smartphone games on a 2W tablet, but you're not playing crysis 3.

There are hundreds of FREE Windows games that can be played on AMD Temash, saying that Temash cannot play Crysis 3 is nothing new and nobody said you will be able to play BF3 Multiplayer.

Have a look at Steam (156 Free to Play Windows Games) , most of them have minimum system requirements lower than the A4-1200 Temash.
Also, you can play thousands of Android games/apps in Windows from the AMD Android zone.

 

[Abwx]

These power numbers are roughly a doubling to Bay Trail-M with 7.5W TDP so it's nothing spectacular.

Granted but they could well , cut down the GPU by 1/3
and still outperform BT , they can also fuse off PCIe as well
as SATA , like BT , and reduce power drain drasticaly.

 

[SiliconWars]

No chance. Z3770 with up to 2,4 ghz has a 10-20% higher SC performance than 1,5 Ghz Kabini. With a Z3740 1,8 Ghz and A4-1200 it would grow up. A4-1200 is clocked with just 1,0 Ghz.

In Integer perhaps but in FP it would be a lot closer. Sure the Z3740 would be faster but not massively so.

All I'm saying is that considering this is the worst Kabini chip you can basically get, it's not that bad.

 

[Abwx]

Cinebench 11.5 which is FP heavy is +5% faster on Z3770 in SC, plus 32 bit vs 64 bit. More like 15% in Cinebench given that 64 bit version of CB11.5 runs 10% faster.

Theses are supposition not real numbers , 5% is within
margin errors with CB.

We ll see once there s real reviews , be prepared for another
picture than the current one , particularly on the comsumption front.

 

[insertcarehere]

In Integer perhaps but in FP it would be a lot closer. Sure the Z3740 would be faster but not massively so.

All I'm saying is that considering this is the worst Kabini chip you can basically get, it's not that bad.

The A4-1200 is dual core...

 

[AtenRa]

When Temash is running at approx half the gpu frequency compared to E-350, its not that hard to imagine. Just for reference, in http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-AMD-A6-1450-APU-Temash.92264.0.html, the A6-1450, running between 300-400mhz gpu has a 3dmark ice storm score of ~18k

You are correct about the Ice Storm score but as i have said before, that is not a Real Game and it should be the best case scenario for the BayTrail Graphics performance.

 

[AtenRa]

So where are the A4-1200 products in real tablets, and where are the benchmarks? Are we really supposed to take your extrapolated expectations as reality?

Gigabyte, Quanta show AMD Temash Windows 8 tablets

MSI W20 3M, tablet fanless with AMD Temash and Windows 8

Temash APU pops up in Toshiba convertible tablet

Everyone is waiting for Win 8.1 release.

 

[Shivansps]

I can't even believe gaming is being brought up as a subject for a 2W tablet. Such tablets are not designed for gaming, you will not be playing BF3 on these things.

A 2W tablet is just a very very bad choice, as mentioned by mikk. Heck, I wouldn't even game on an ultrabook (aside from undemanding games, such as Torchlight 2 perhaps). Anyone expecting BF3 or Tomb Raider on a 2W tablet or even most ultrabooks is living in a fantasy land.

Someone tell me why gaming is being brought up. That argument is so ridiculous it blows my mind - you can play smartphone games on a 2W tablet, but you're not playing crysis 3.

Who say to play crysis 3, tomb raider or BF3? stop it already, people have been playing with Brazos for a long time, gaming performance was one of the strong points of Brazos compared to standart atoms, you are arguing against a reality.

And i did lot of casual gaming on my U230 and DM1z with some good, no old, titles.

Hell, people have been playing before Brazos too with 780G on the Neo Platform, the Atom + ION 2(Asus 1215N was very popular), even with a Single core Atom+ION1 (HP Mini 311).
Just google it.

 

[mikk]

There are hundreds of FREE Windows games that can be played on AMD Temash, saying that Temash cannot play Crysis 3 is nothing new and nobody said you will be able to play BF3 Multiplayer.

Have a look at Steam (156 Free to Play Windows Games) , most of them have minimum system requirements lower than the A4-1200 Temash.
Also, you can play thousands of Android games/apps in Windows from the AMD Android zone.

If you say it is running you have to prove that these games doesn't run on Bay Trail-T. I'm not convinced. A4-5000 GPU is clocked with 500 Mhz, A6-1450 with 300-400 Mhz and A4-1200 with 200 Mhz. The GPU downgrade is pretty huge on 3,9W Temash.

Theses are supposition not real numbers , 5% is within
margin errors with CB.

I have seen several CB11.5 SC scores, in all of them Z3770 scored either 0,40 or 0,41. In all A4-5000 tests I saw it scored exactly 0,39. So Z3770 is consistently slightly faster here in this FP heavy bench even with the 32bit disadvantage. If you look to Singlethread benchmarks from all reviews we have such as Sunspider, CoreMark, Lame, Kraken you should realize that the Z3770 is 10-20% faster than A4-5000 Kabini in average.

 

[Sweepr]

Any kind of performance advantage this chip could have on the graphics side (at 225MHz it wont have any - a 4C/4T 1.5GHz Jaguar + 500MHz GPU is barely 2x faster than Z3770 according to the few tests posted) will be negated by having less than a 1/3 of Z3770's MT performance and a serious ST disadvantage (+50%).

Not to mention:

According to Slashgear, the W30Dt will be known as the Satellite Click in the US. The price is supposed to be $599, which sounds a bit steep for a pudgy convertible with a low-res screen and a low-end APU. But, hey, the W30Dt is an AMD tablet design win. Those don't come along every day.

ASUS's T100 with a faster Z3740 chip will cost $349.

 

[AtenRa]

Any kind of performance advantage this chip could have on the graphics side (at 225MHz it wont have any - a 4C/4T 1.5GHz Jaguar + 500MHz GPU is barely 2x faster than Z3770 according to the few tests posted) will be negated by having less than a 1/3 of Z3770's MT performance and a serious ST disadvantage (+50%).

The only benchmark including the A4-5000 is the 3D Mark Ice Storm. No Real Games, i wonder why ??

Not to mention:



ASUS's T100 with a faster Z3740 chip will cost $349.

Z3770 is the fastest BayTrail at 2.4GHz Turbo, Z3740 is at 1.8GHz Turbo.

 

[SiliconWars]

The A4-1200 is dual core...

Yes, as I mentioned in the previous post (we were discussing single threaded performance).

 

[piesquared]

Thats perfect - now we just wait for AMD to finish making drivers work for Android........


Hmm, wheres the design wins mr. amd lover?

Drivers will come. AMD are keeping up with intel on many fronts despite being 1/50th the size. I can fully appreciate that it might take a little longer for some projects.

Design wins are on the market and Jaguar is selling in record numbers, and that's not including consoles. Plus they were on the market 4 months earlier so it's intel that's playing catch up. We'll see AMD's answer soon.

 

[AtenRa]

If you say it is running you have to prove that these games doesn't run on Bay Trail-T. I'm not convinced. A4-5000 GPU is clocked with 500 Mhz, A6-1450 with 300-400 Mhz and A4-1200 with 200 Mhz. The GPU downgrade is pretty huge on 3,9W Temash.

I gave the numbers before but perhaps you didnt see them,

AMD Z-60 is a dual core 1GHz 4.5W TDP (+ 1-2W from the PCH) 80 Radeon cores(VLIW5) at 276MHz and scores 12199 on Ice Storm.

Temash A4-1200 is a dual core 1GHz 3.9W TDP (SoC) 128 GCN Radeon Cores at 225MHz, it will score higher than BayTrail Z3770(13850).

But, real games is a different thing than Ice Storm.

 

[Abwx]

I have seen several CB11.5 SC scores, in all of them Z3770 scored either 0,40 or 0,41. In all A4-5000 tests I saw it scored exactly 0,39. So Z3770 is consistently slightly faster here in this FP heavy bench even with the 32bit disadvantage. If you look to Singlethread benchmarks from all reviews we have such as Sunspider, CoreMark, Lame, Kraken you should realize that the Z3770 is 10-20% faster than A4-5000 Kabini in average.

That s with 65% higher frequency , kabini has some reserve left ,
plus dont expect thoses scores with 2-5W , we still have no other
numbers than the one provided under intel s supervision using
their testing protocols...

 

[Nothingness]

Hm, thats just an article from a week ago. All of the tests yesterday put Bay Trail-T around 1-2.5W in CPU-intensive tasks and thats with 2.4GHz Turbo. Also, where their leaked data comes from? Bay Trail-M (notebooks) has 4.5-7.5W TDPs so the tablet models should have quite a bit lower TDPs.

Unless I missed something, all the tests done were on the Intel-designed tablets, with Intel software and hardware to provide measures. I don't buy this blindly and will wait for independent reviews of user devices with battery life numbers.

 

[sequoia464]

Moreover,why are Windows tablets stuck at 1366X768?? I know mates who use the Transformer Infinity and it has a lovely 1920X1200 display.

This is my question also, I have a HP elitepad (1280x800 resolution) and personally prefer W8 on a tablet to my android tablets and the one ipad we have here.

That said - I really wish the resolution was as sharp as the 1920x1280 HD+'s that I also use.

 

[insertcarehere]

AMD Z-60 is a dual core 1GHz 4.5W TDP (+ 1-2W from the PCH) 80 Radeon cores(VLIW5) at 276MHz and scores 12199 on Ice Storm.

Just as a side note, I am not too sure if the numbers on notebookcheck (for the Z-60) are correct, the review where notebookcheck cites the numbers were obtained actually has a 9741 score for Ice Storm, and a lot of other performance figures were also 20-30% lower in the review as well.

Actual product review for Z-60:http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Fujitsu-Stylistic-Q572-Tablet.91078.0.html

 

[krumme]

I think Intel will get closer with Cherry Trail. When I spoke with the BYT chief architect, he clearly indicated to me that the GPU would become an increasing part of the SOC in future generations.

I also expect the gpu performance to take a huge jump for next Atom arch. Double eu plus 20% efficiency gains. Clearly its damn difficult to make an efficient gpu with good drivers. Intel is strugling here as everyone else can not beat them on their cpu perf/watt.

The problem will not be, and is not now, about performance. It might not even have to be with everything else on the soc.

The problem for Intel is windows, android and fighting with apple and samsung.

Even if bt had performed like anand perhaps had hoped it would not make a difference.

 

[blackened23]

Well it's a good thing intel demo'ed Merrifield at IDF this week with advanced LTE. It was running at 150Mbps advanced LTE Speeds, and will be integrated.