The Intel Atom Thread

[SiliconWars]

Granted the Asus one appears to be much better than the Toshiba one, but the Toshiba one is the one with the Z3370, which makes me wonder just how limited the Z3770 will be in quantity, and how highly priced.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Granted the Asus one appears to be much better than the Toshiba one, but the Toshiba one is the one with the Z3370, which makes me wonder just how limited the Z3770 will be in quantity, and how highly priced.

There is no Z3370. I believe the Toshiba is a Z3770, but I can't confirm that. I don't know why they'd use the full tilt chip for a 12x8 screen.

 

[SiliconWars]

Sorry that's what I meant, Z3770.

 

[mikk]

Go read the Anandtech preview again in the conclusion, and read between the lines. Its seldom with that tone for a new Intel cpu.

Your posting has nothing to do with my TDP answer. Anand obviously expected a new GPU king or Core i-x performance level, his expectations were a bit off I think.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Sorry that's what I meant, Z3770.

No worries. Just got a little confused 😉

 

[Arachnotronic]

Your posting has nothing to do with my TDP answer. Anand obviously expected a new GPU king or Core i-x performance level, his expectations were a bit off I think.

I think Intel will get closer with Cherry Trail. When I spoke with the BYT chief architect, he clearly indicated to me that the GPU would become an increasing part of the SOC in future generations.

 

[blackened23]

To be quite honest i'm waiting for better tablets as well. I think the chip has the potential to be used to great effect, so if there's a tablet with a 1920x1080 screen with full Windows 8.1, i'm game for 300-350$. I'd buy it. For 1200x800 not so much. Having used the iPad, it's obvious that resolution makes a dramatic difference, so I don't think i'm content with 1200x800. Clearly the chip can do better than that, so what's the reason for this? IMO - I still think the Windows license is a large share of the cost here. MS needs to work with intel in driving that price down, IMO.

 

[AtenRa]

If the games that most people play on tablets and smartphones are stuff like angry birds and candy crush saga, you certainly don't need the fastest gpu you can have. In fact, that would just make battery life worse, as more powerful gpus consume more power than what is strictly needed to run the game at a satisfactory level.

People play games for the Hardware they have. You dont expect people to play Crysis 3 on Tablets do you ?? But if you have a faster GPU you will play more 3D games with higher IQ characteristics. And here comes Temash, you will be able to play more games or with higher Image Quality than BayTrail.

Considering that the A4-1500 is barely 2x faster in gpu than Baytrail and has a 500mhz gpu, what makes you think Temash would do just as well with the same gpu part clocked at 225-300mhz?

From AT preview, its clear that BayTrail has half the Performance of HD3000 at 15W in real Games. That is, it will almost have the performance of HD2000 at 15W.
3D Mark 2013 (IceStorm) must be the best case in GPU performance for Baytrail. I believe the driver is 3D Mark optimized. BayTrail scores 13850 in IceStorm, when two year old AMD Z-60 scores close to 12000. Im expecting Temash to be close to ~20000 in the same Benchmark.
In real games, that drivers play more important role in performance, im expecting a 3.9W A4-1200 Temash to be on average close to ~70-80% faster than BayTrail Z3770. Ahh and thats for DX-9, i dont believe BayTrail can even run DX-11 games(drivers).

 

[Arachnotronic]

To be quite honest i'm waiting for better tablets as well. I think the chip has the potential to be used to great effect, so if there's a tablet with a 1920x1080 screen with full Windows 8.1, i'm game for 300-350$. I'd buy it. For 1200x800 not so much. Having used the iPad, it's obvious that resolution makes a dramatic difference, so I don't think i'm content with 1200x800. Clearly the chip can do better than that, so what's the reason for this? IMO - I still think the Windows license is a large share of the cost here. MS needs to work with intel in driving that price down, IMO.

Intel reps have specifically highlighted the fact that 7-8" 1920x1080 devices would be on the way. We'll see if they're right.

 

[blackened23]

People play games for the Hardware they have. You dont expect people to play Crysis 3 on Tablets do you ?? But if you have a faster GPU you will play more 3D games with higher IQ characteristics. And here comes Temash, you will be able to play more games or with higher Image Quality than BayTrail.

Really? Comparing Bay Trail-T to Temash and Kabini. That's funny. Both of those have substantially higher TDPs and are designed for laptops and convertibles, Bay Trail T is not a laptop or convertible chip. It is a 1-2W tablet chip - AMD doesnt' have a product that can compete in that same power window, AMD will not be in 7 inch 2W tablets. Move them goalposts, son 😉

The correct comparison would be Bay Trail D which has the same power window as Temash and Kabini and substantially better graphics than Bay Trail T. But let's just ignore the fact that AMD doesn't have a 2W tablet chip and just throw out a random comparison to Temash and Bay Trail T. You'll find Temash in laptops and convertibles, but you will not find it in 1-2W tablets. I hope you can see why the comparison is a stupid one.

As far as gaming, not a single one of these chips will do gaming well. Temash, Kabini, and Bay Trail aren't good for gaming, if you want to game you'll want a dGPU such as the 780M with a quad core i7.

 

[AtenRa]

Bay Trail T is designed for 1-2W Tablets, something that AMD *not surprisingly* has no product for. Life's rough when AMD has no product that can sell in any product segment,

AMD Temash A4-1200 3.9W TDP is made for Tablets, and BayTrail-T is not 1-2W TDP, thats SDP.

 

[blackened23]

AMD Temash A4-1200 3.9W TDP is made for Tablets, and BayTrail-T is not 1.2W TDP, thats SDP.

Yeah and how does it perform with turbo disabled? All i've seen are comparisons to the A4-5000 which is a turbo chip with a 17W TDP. I'm guessing that without turbo the performance will suffer dramatically as a result.

 

[AtenRa]

Yeah and how does it perform with turbo disabled? All i've seen are comparisons to the A4-5000 which is a turbo chip with a 17W TDP. I'm guessing that without turbo the performance will suffer dramatically as a result.

Man, why dont you go to www.AMD.com and see the specs ???
http://www.amd.com/us/products/notebook/tablets/Pages/tablets.aspx#3

A4-5000 is a 15W NO TURBO. Give me a brake, AMD has the Temash a4-1200 at 3.9W TDP for tablets NO TURBO.

ps: i gave you my analysis for the AMD Temash A4-1200 above.

 

[Sweepr]

In real games, that drivers play more important role in performance, im expecting a 3.9W A4-1200 Temash to be on average close to ~70-80% faster than BayTrail Z3770. Ahh and thats for DX-9, i dont believe BayTrail can even run DX-11 games(drivers).

This 3.9W TDP Temash has an embarassing 1/3 of A4 5000's CPU performance. Z3770 matches/beats an A4 5000 CPU-wise. Thats a huge gap.

From AT preview, its clear that BayTrail has half the Performance of HD3000 at 15W in real Games. That is, it will almost have the performance of HD2000 at 15W.
3D Mark 2013 (IceStorm) must be the best case in GPU performance for Baytrail. I believe the driver is 3D Mark optimized. BayTrail scores 13850 in IceStorm, when two year old AMD Z-60 scores close to 12000. Im expecting Temash to be close to ~20000 in the same Benchmark.

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph7314/58065.png

Better check your expectations again. At 500MHz the 128 GNC cores GPU from A4 5000 score ~23k (with pretty good CPU performance from 4C @ 1.5GHz). At 225MHz coupled with a slow 2C 1GHz Jaguar it will be at best close to Z3770's gaming performance and far below 20k @ Ice Storm.

 

[SiliconWars]

The A4-1200 will probably have similar single-threaded performance to the Z3470 I believe, but lacks the extra two cores. It's probably quite nice in a 10" tablet but I honestly don't think AMD is any real competition anyway, and the A4-1200 is the lowest bin of Kabini. They must be fairly cheap and inevitably end up in craptops instead.

 

[mikk]

Ahh and thats for DX-9, i dont believe BayTrail can even run DX-11 games(drivers).

Of yourse it can. Gen7 is DX11. As for the gaming, a Windows game not only requires a decent GPU it also requires an appropriate CPU power.

To illustrate it on a A6-1450 8W Temash from Notebookcheck:

The GPU might be good enough for much higer fps but the CPU is often a big bottleneck on Windows gaming. If you are for Windows gaming, a tablet is a very very bad choice.

 

[insertcarehere]

People play games for the Hardware they have. You dont expect people to play Crysis 3 on Tablets do you ?? But if you have a faster GPU you will play more 3D games with higher IQ characteristics. And here comes Temash, you will be able to play more games or with higher Image Quality than BayTrail.

Except the types of games made will be more or less influenced by the form factor of the devices. The default control schemes of touch-screen devices simply doesn't lend itself very well to a lot of 3D game types unless the mechanics are very pared down. Let's also not forget that developers for these mobile-oriented games would also have to accommodate for much older and far less powerful devices.

 

[blackened23]

I can't even believe gaming is being brought up as a subject for a 2W tablet. Such tablets are not designed for gaming, you will not be playing BF3 on these things.

A 2W tablet is just a very very bad choice, as mentioned by mikk. Heck, I wouldn't even game on an ultrabook (aside from undemanding games, such as Torchlight 2 perhaps). Anyone expecting BF3 or Tomb Raider on a 2W tablet or even most ultrabooks is living in a fantasy land.

Someone tell me why gaming is being brought up. That argument is so ridiculous it blows my mind - you can play smartphone games on a 2W tablet, but you're not playing crysis 3.

 

[Sweepr]

Of yourse it can. Gen7 is DX11. As for the gaming, a Windows game not only requires a decent GPU it also requires an appropriate CPU power.

To illustrate it on a A6-1450 8W Temash from Notebookcheck:

The GPU might be good enough for much higer fps but the CPU is often a big bottleneck on Windows gaming. If you are for Windows gaming, a tablet is a very very bad choice.

And thats a 1GHz 4C Jaguar + 300MHz GPU, much faster than the crappy A4 1200. 😛

 

[AtenRa]

This 3.9W TDP Temash has an embarassing 1/3 of A4 5000's CPU performance. Z3770 matches/beats an A4 5000 CPU-wise. Thats a huge gap.

We are talking about the iGPU performance, not the CPU.

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph7314/58065.png

Better check your expectations again. At 500MHz the 128 GNC cores GPU from A4 5000 score ~23k (with pretty good CPU performance from 4C @ 1.5GHz). At 225MHz coupled with a slow 2C 1GHz Jaguar it will be at best close to Z3770's gaming performance and far below 20k @ Ice Storm.

As i have said before, 3D Mark Ice Storm is the baste case scenario for BayTrail GPU performance.
Also from the AT graph you quoted, BayTrail Z-3770 has the same performance in Ice Storm as the two year old E-350 that has HALF the Radeon cores(80) and with an older VLIW5 architecture. If you believe that Temash with 128 Radeon Cores (GCN) will have the same performance you are mistaken.

 

[mikk]

The A4-1200 will probably have similar single-threaded performance to the Z3470 I believe, but lacks the extra two cores. It's probably quite nice in a 10" tablet but I honestly don't think AMD is any real competition anyway, and the A4-1200 is the lowest bin of Kabini. They must be fairly cheap and inevitably end up in craptops instead.

No chance. Z3770 with up to 2,4 ghz has a 10-20% higher SC performance than 1,5 Ghz Kabini. With a Z3740 1,8 Ghz and A4-1200 it would grow up. A4-1200 is clocked with just 1,0 Ghz.

 

[blackened23]

As i have said before, 3D Mark Ice Storm is the baste case scenario for BayTrail GPU performance.
Also from the AT graph you quoted, BayTrail Z-3770 has the same performance in Ice Storm as the two year old E-350 that has HALF the Radeon cores(80) and with an older VLIW5 architecture. If you believe that Temash with 128 Radeon Cores (GCN) will have the same performance you are mistaken.

So where are the A4-1200 products in real tablets, and where are the benchmarks? Are we really supposed to take your extrapolated expectations as reality?

 

[Shivansps]

Let me get this straight,

Why people believe that Baytrail GPU performance is acceptable when it is slower than Last years Bobcat 2.0 iGPU performance ?? Last year everyone was saying that Bobcat 2.0 GPU performance was not acceptable because you couldn't play modern 3d games.

Yeah, again, im a user of a pre-Bobcat (L335+780G), and a Bobcat (E-350).

Bobcat and Bobcat 2 problem to play modern games is CPU power, when i switched from MSI U230 to HP DM1z i gained so little in a few games and that was an increase of 100% of the SP, from 40 to 80 SP, and i even got worse fps on another games because the E-350 was weaker as a cpu and the memory bandwidth where just not enoght( i had DC on the U230). For example when i tested GW2 on the E-350 the cores where at 100% and i get maybe 1 fps more from going from 1366x768 to 800x600...

Until we see some actual game comparison of a Bay Trail to Brazos/Temash we going to have no idea if the Atom is worse, equal or better than any of those in games.

 

[Abwx]

Yeah and how does it perform with turbo disabled? All i've seen are comparisons to the A4-5000 which is a turbo chip with a 17W TDP.

15W TDP actualy but it doesnt surprise me that the error
is in a , well , convenient direction , not the first time i see
such misleading infos , from the A4 5000 being a 1.6ghz
chip to kabini or steamroller not being ECC compatible
despite the slides explicitly saying otherwise...

As for this chip SDPs , let s take a look :

1.06 and 1.92W SDPs in two different main usages...
And that s with a chip that is officialy 15W TDP...

 

[insertcarehere]

Also from the AT graph you quoted, BayTrail Z-3770 has the same performance in Ice Storm as the two year old E-350 that has HALF the Radeon cores(80) and with an older VLIW5 architecture. If you believe that Temash with 128 Radeon Cores (GCN) will have the same performance you are mistaken.

When Temash is running at approx half the gpu frequency compared to E-350, its not that hard to imagine. Just for reference, in http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-AMD-A6-1450-APU-Temash.92264.0.html, the A6-1450, running between 300-400mhz gpu has a 3dmark ice storm score of ~18k