The hunt for illegals is on.

[cubby1223]

"Concentration camps" obviously has a VERY negative ring to it and we don't use the word.
But the new detention centers who are planned now (FACT) are technically indeed "concentration camps".

And the MO how people of a certain heritage/race/religion are now apprehended and then detained in those camps is very, very, VERY similar to what was done in the 3rd Reich. You can deny this as long as you want.

PS: In the 3rd Reich, they sure didn't proclaim that they took out of their homes and then detained Jews, Gypsies, "Degenerates" etc. out of fun and out of evilness. OBVIOUSLY and OF COURSE, these people had been claimed as being criminals, or authorities had "invented" whatever crimes to pseudo-legitimize their detention. Saying that back then, for the regime this was really not "innocent people", but actually perceived as criminals ("enemies" that the regime deemed as dangerous), whereas this term of course is highly flexible. This is the crux here. For example, someone "averse to work", or an artist engaging in "degenerate art" or a regime critic. You can easily put the "criminal" label on anyone and pseudo-legitimize the reason for detention. Those who want to do this can always find reasons.

You cannot "logically argue away" that you are INDEED building concentration camps by saying "oh, no, these are only for illegal immigrants". This "logic", I am afraid, doesn't work. If so, it should have already worked back in 1938 if someone would have pointed out there are concentration camps (assuming that normal folks didn't know what REALLY happened in them, and normal folks did indeed not know what really happened there) and then say, "ah no, this is ok...you know these are for the Jews, so it's all good".

Saying, (TLDR), the common man will believe (or be made believe) that there really is a "good reason" why folks are detained..like they now believe that the good reason and justification for it is that the detained are illegals. In an alternate reality or a potential future if we assume that entering the US without papers in the search for work wouldn't be a crime/felony, then IN HINDSIGHT (!), the apprehension and detention would be seen in an entirely different light and deemed an immoral and inhumane act.

You guys are just piling sad upon more sad trying to relate today to Nazi Germany. There's no way to have a rational discussion when your perspective is so far out of the norm.

Nazi Germany: Jews & Slavs & disabled & others were rounded up to be killed out of the human gene pool.
U.S.A: People within the nation illegally, or from unstable regions, are turned around and sent back.

Nazi Germany: Whoever spoke against the government was rounded up, imprisoned, killed.
U.S.A.: Every day countless people freely protest the government without a shred of fear of repercussions.

That's just a start. You are crazy and not worth even another minute of attention. Bye.

 

[JockoJohnson]

Lügenpost

I've seen you post this several other times. I used Google to look it up but came up with nothing. Could you please expand on what Lügenpost is?

 

[disappoint]

OK, I might have gone a bit too far with my title.

Are you sure the sky's not falling? Pretty sure the sky is falling dude. I mean if the sky isn't falling how do you explain rain?

 

[disappoint]

You do know, I would imagine that people go whaaaaaaa when they are hurt, right and what you are asking for and have no sympathy about is that this kind of action will create a tremendous amount of hurt, not just hurt for them but hurt all around. You will also be hurting yourself because your attitude of indifference to the pain of others just makes you an asshole. How can that be good for your mental health. So yes, you have no natural human decency and compassion because you are infected with hate. People have broken the law and they should be held accountable. And you don't mind if it fucks their kids while you're at it.
Reply
As a liberal I have held the government in contempt for years because they allow people to cut in line, Democrats for race identity reasons and Republicans for the cheap labor. But once you have allowed an issue to grow to massive proportions and telegraphed to the world your indifference you can't just simply reverse course without doing greater evil. You have to pay for past fuck ups. You can't just do a 180. We should have never just pulled out of Iraq for the same reason. You accrue moral obligations when you fuck up. You're too much of an egotist to see your own culpability.

You know it's actually quite mentally unhealthy to put the needs of others before your own needs right? Also it can be quite harmful to both you and the people you are trying to help.

Suppose you're a lifeguard, and you're rescuing someone who can't swim. You've got them in your arms but the waves are sending you closer to some rocks. Do you put yourself between the victim you're rescuing and the rocks or do you turn and put the person you are rescuing between you and the rocks?

The answer is you put the person you're rescuing in danger because if you hit the rocks and get knocked unconscious you're both going to drown.

 

[PokerGuy]

Seeing the usual lefties trying to twist themselves into a logical pretzel is always a source of amusement. "But, but, think of the children!" --- always an excellent indicator that someone can't come up with a rational logical argument.

If a father / mother of a child commits a crime (lets say robbery) and ends up arrested, do we simply ignore the fact they committed a crime because otherwise we remove the parent of a child by sending them to prison? Of course not. Do we blame the evil authorities for arresting them and sending them off to jail? Of course not. Whatever happens to the legal children of illegals is the result of their parent's doing, and their parents are to blame, nobody else. Their children are legal citizens and will always have the option to come / remain here, but that doesn't mean we are under some obligation to allow the illegal parents to stay here as well.

I still contend we don't need to fix the problem in one fell swoop by deporting millions at the same time. Just make sure no more people come in, the rest can be done slowly.

 

[fskimospy]

You know it's actually quite mentally unhealthy to put the needs of others before your own needs right? Also it can be quite harmful to both you and the people you are trying to help.

Suppose you're a lifeguard, and you're rescuing someone who can't swim. You've got them in your arms but the waves are sending you closer to some rocks. Do you put yourself between the victim you're rescuing and the rocks or do you turn and put the person you are rescuing between you and the rocks?

The answer is you put the person you're rescuing in danger because if you hit the rocks and get knocked unconscious you're both going to drown.

Not really, collaborative behavior, even behavior that hurts the giver in the short term is widely seen in successful species from bats to primates to humans and it appears to be an evolutionary advantage. There's an book on the evolutionary advantages of altruism and how it may have come to be called 'Good Natured?' by Frans de Waal that you might find interesting.

While there are of course some cases where altruistic behavior can end up harming both parties there are huge numbers of situations where the polar opposite is true. Immigration has been a primary engine of economic growth for the US for a very long time. We might want to think twice about the wisdom of rounding immigrants up en masse and deporting them. Does that seem very wise to you?

 

[fskimospy]

Seeing the usual lefties trying to twist themselves into a logical pretzel is always a source of amusement. "But, but, think of the children!" --- always an excellent indicator that someone can't come up with a rational logical argument.

If a father / mother of a child commits a crime (lets say robbery) and ends up arrested, do we simply ignore the fact they committed a crime because otherwise we remove the parent of a child by sending them to prison? Of course not. Do we blame the evil authorities for arresting them and sending them off to jail? Of course not. Whatever happens to the legal children of illegals is the result of their parent's doing, and their parents are to blame, nobody else. Their children are legal citizens and will always have the option to come / remain here, but that doesn't mean we are under some obligation to allow the illegal parents to stay here as well.

I still contend we don't need to fix the problem in one fell swoop by deporting millions at the same time. Just make sure no more people come in, the rest can be done slowly.

It's a telltale sign that someone is incapable of forming a logical or rational argument when they try to hand wave away strong adverse impacts on literally millions of people.

 

[disappoint]

Not really, collaborative behavior, even behavior that hurts the giver in the short term is widely seen in successful species from bats to primates to humans and it appears to be an evolutionary advantage. There's an book on the evolutionary advantages of altruism and how it may have come to be called 'Good Natured?' by Frans de Waal that you might find interesting.

While there are of course some cases where altruistic behavior can end up harming both parties there are huge numbers of situations where the polar opposite is true. Immigration has been a primary engine of economic growth for the US for a very long time. We might want to think twice about the wisdom of rounding immigrants up en masse and deporting them. Does that seem very wise to you?

There is a book on it so it must be true. Ook chief. There are books against it too. Now what?

Legal immigrants or illegal immigrants? Helping people that think laws don't apply to them seem like a good idea to you?

 

[fskimospy]

There is a book on it so it must be true. Ook chief. There are books against it too. Now what?

Huh? There are books that say altruism and cooperative behavior is an evolutionary disadvantage in primates? What books are these, specifically?

You're just hand waving away a pretty interesting book from a widely known expert in the field with the argument of 'well who can really know anything?'. That's ridiculous.

Legal immigrants or illegal immigrants? Keeping people that think laws don't apply to them seem like a good idea to you?

Saying that illegal immigrants think laws don't apply to them is silliness. You have almost certainly broken laws in your life, do you believe laws don't apply to you?

 

[disappoint]

Huh? There are books that say altruism and cooperative behavior is an evolutionary disadvantage in primates? What books are these, specifically?

You're just hand waving away a pretty interesting book from a widely known expert in the field with the argument of 'well who can really know anything?'. That's ridiculous.



Saying that illegal immigrants think laws don't apply to them is silliness. You have almost certainly broken laws in your life, do you believe laws don't apply to you?

I didn't say "who can really know anything". I can see why you'd want people to think I said it instead of the person who did though, as it makes you look bad. Strawman arguments are not helping your cause.

I've actually not intentionally broken any laws and certainly not immigration laws. What's the point of a law that is not enforced?

 

[jmagg]

I've broken laws and suffered consequences. Crossing the border without visa is breaking the law and has consequences.

 

[fskimospy]

I didn't say "who can really know anything". I can see why you'd want people to think I said it instead of the person who did though, as it makes you look bad. Strawman arguments are not helping your cause.

Sorry, but what I said is a very accurate description of your position. I specifically cited a scholarly work on the overall benefits of cooperative behavior in contrast to your made up anecdote and your response was 'someone else disagreed so now what?' You have made no effective counter argument and I was pointing out how ridiculous that was. You aren't helping yourself when you say things like that.

I've actually not intentionally broken any laws and certainly not immigration laws. What's the point of a law that is not enforced?

Really.

Never been speeding? Never jaywalked? Never had to pee really badly and urinated in public on the side of the road? Never claimed a dubious tax deduction? Etc, etc.

 

[Jhhnn]

Seeing the usual lefties trying to twist themselves into a logical pretzel is always a source of amusement. "But, but, think of the children!" --- always an excellent indicator that someone can't come up with a rational logical argument.

If a father / mother of a child commits a crime (lets say robbery) and ends up arrested, do we simply ignore the fact they committed a crime because otherwise we remove the parent of a child by sending them to prison? Of course not. Do we blame the evil authorities for arresting them and sending them off to jail? Of course not. Whatever happens to the legal children of illegals is the result of their parent's doing, and their parents are to blame, nobody else. Their children are legal citizens and will always have the option to come / remain here, but that doesn't mean we are under some obligation to allow the illegal parents to stay here as well.

I still contend we don't need to fix the problem in one fell swoop by deporting millions at the same time. Just make sure no more people come in, the rest can be done slowly.

Your analogy falls flat given that illegal presence in this country is not a crime but rather a civil matter. Illegals are not criminals per se although claiming they are helps to wrongfully emotionalize the issue, hide bigotry behind legalisms.

The rest is just rationalization for depersonalization of American Citizen children- "Well, kiddies, we're going to beat you with a stick because your daddy screwed up."

You'll never make America white again no matter how hard you try.

 

[blackangst1]

Your analogy falls flat given that illegal presence in this country is not a crime but rather a civil matter. Illegals are not criminals per se although claiming they are helps to wrongfully emotionalize the issue, hide bigotry behind legalisms.

The rest is just rationalization for depersonalization of American Citizen children- "Well, kiddies, we're going to beat you with a stick because your daddy screwed up."

You'll never make America white again no matter how hard you try.

Did you reply to the wrong post? Your reply makes zero sense.

 

[PokerGuy]

Your analogy falls flat given that illegal presence in this country is not a crime but rather a civil matter.

You're wrong right off the bat. There are two aspects to it: illegal entry (which is technically a crime), and unlawful presence, which is a violation of federal law but only punishable by civil penalties, not criminal ones. So, coming here without authorization is a crime, but being here illegally is not automatically a crime. It's a violation of law, but a civil offense.

The rest is just rationalization for depersonalization of American Citizen children- "Well, kiddies, we're going to beat you with a stick because your daddy screwed up."

Again, the parents knowingly did something (illegally come/stay here), that they knew could result in their deportation when caught. Trying to blame authorities for the wrongs of the parents is absurd, and my analogy is correct. The punishment for robbery can be incarceration. If someone commits robbery, we don't just excuse it and ignore it because they are the breadwinner for their kids. The punishment for violating immigration law can be deportation. The parents know it, everyone knows it. They are solely to blame for any impacts to their children.

You'll never make America white again no matter how hard you try.

Again with the racist crap. When you don't have a rational argument, you just default to "raaaaaaciiiiiiiiiist!". Since when does asking for the laws to be enforced equally for all have anything to do with race? Stop projecting your own racism onto others.

 

[Moonbeam]

Sounds like moonbeam needs a rabbies shot, he is foaming at the mouth a bit much this morning.

You know it's actually quite mentally unhealthy to put the needs of others before your own needs right? Also it can be quite harmful to both you and the people you are trying to help.

Suppose you're a lifeguard, and you're rescuing someone who can't swim. You've got them in your arms but the waves are sending you closer to some rocks. Do you put yourself between the victim you're rescuing and the rocks or do you turn and put the person you are rescuing between you and the rocks?

The answer is you put the person you're rescuing in danger because if you hit the rocks and get knocked unconscious you're both going to drown.

And you call that putting yourself first. I think that would be letting the person drown because rescue can be dangerous.

 

[Jhhnn]

You're wrong right off the bat. There are two aspects to it: illegal entry (which is technically a crime), and unlawful presence, which is a violation of federal law but only punishable by civil penalties, not criminal ones. So, coming here without authorization is a crime, but being here illegally is not automatically a crime. It's a violation of law, but a civil offense.



Again, the parents knowingly did something (illegally come/stay here), that they knew could result in their deportation when caught. Trying to blame authorities for the wrongs of the parents is absurd, and my analogy is correct. The punishment for robbery can be incarceration. If someone commits robbery, we don't just excuse it and ignore it because they are the breadwinner for their kids. The punishment for violating immigration law can be deportation. The parents know it, everyone knows it. They are solely to blame for any impacts to their children.



Again with the racist crap. When you don't have a rational argument, you just default to "raaaaaaciiiiiiiiiist!". Since when does asking for the laws to be enforced equally for all have anything to do with race? Stop projecting your own racism onto others.

The part I love is that you admit harm will occur to American citizen children yet deny responsibility for actually doing them harm. We aren't compelled to do that. Not in the slightest.

It's the "Her parents should have watched her better so that I couldn't rape her" defense.

 

[PokerGuy]

The part I love is that you admit harm will occur to American citizen children yet deny responsibility for actually doing them harm. We aren't compelled to do that. Not in the slightest.

It's the "Her parents should have watched her better so that I couldn't rape her" defense.

Baloney. Again, back to my example. We incarcerate the parents if they commit crimes today. There is no debating whether that hurts the kids in those situations. Of course it does. The kids get hurt as a result of the actions of the adults, that's not the fault of those who catch and jail the criminals, it's the fault of the parents. We try to avoid those situations where possible, but you simply can't always avoid the bad consequences to kids when their parents do bad things.

If you give parents in terrible places a huge incentive to come over ("hey, if you make it in and pop out a kid, you're good to go, you can stay forever!"), of course they're going to do just that, as we've seen over the decades. Completely logical and rational.

Only in your delusional lib world is "enforcing the laws equally and fairly for all" the same as "rape".

 

[JSt0rm]

What is the charge for being in the country illegally? Felony? Misdemeanor?

 

[Jhhnn]

Baloney. Again, back to my example. We incarcerate the parents if they commit crimes today. There is no debating whether that hurts the kids in those situations. Of course it does. The kids get hurt as a result of the actions of the adults, that's not the fault of those who catch and jail the criminals, it's the fault of the parents. We try to avoid those situations where possible, but you simply can't always avoid the bad consequences to kids when their parents do bad things.

If you give parents in terrible places a huge incentive to come over ("hey, if you make it in and pop out a kid, you're good to go, you can stay forever!"), of course they're going to do just that, as we've seen over the decades. Completely logical and rational.

Only in your delusional lib world is "enforcing the laws equally and fairly for all" the same as "rape".

Yep- inflicting the sins of the parents on innocent American Citizen children.

It's shameful, of course, to think that way but modern conservatives apparently have no shame when it comes to xenophobia & bigotry.

 

[DrunkenSano]

Entering this country illegally is not a crime... I don't know whether to laugh at this statement or just shake my head in disappointment. Why even have border control at all if this is true. Let's let everyone in, who cares what kind of person they are.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I've seen you post this several other times. I used Google to look it up but came up with nothing. Could you please expand on what Lügenpost is?

It's not actually a real word. It's my adaptation of the word Lügenpresse which is, basically, lying press. I've linked several articles to give you a bit of background on the word and it's history and it's resurgence in use and why.

http://www.economist.com/news/europ...ous-word-americas-alt-right-learns-speak-nazi

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...npresse-a-nazi-slur-shouted-at-a-trump-rally/

http://time.com/4544562/donald-trump-supporters-lugenpresse/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lying_press

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Yep- inflicting the sins of the parents on innocent American Citizen children.

It's shameful, of course, to think that way but modern conservatives apparently have no shame when it comes to xenophobia & bigotry.

With your way of thinking we could never jail anyone that's fathered or mothered children.

 

[Svnla]

I already addressed your point about the 80s. It's funny that you were talking about how liberals wanted equality above all else when it turns out that's really you.



That's not how it is for any law, ever. The question is always how much we enforce the law vs. what it costs us. The idea that it's a yes or no thing is an emotional fantasy.



It's almost like those countries are good examples of well functioning, high income societies and Mexico is not. Might want to think this through a little more next time.

Nope, you didn't. You just glanced over and did not acknowledge that the big amnesty in 80's was a colossal failure yet you guys want to do it again. Something about do the same thing over again and expect different result = insanity.

We can go around and around this all day. I and million and million of Americans want to enforce the rules and laws, you and others like you want to make excuses. We get it, you want excuses because by any mean necessary, right?

Funny how you "forgot" the rest of my post about other sovereign nations (not just Mexico). This is the exact quote " why don't you go to Mexico or any sovereign nation or Earth and pull the same excuses as you are doing now". Might want to include all information and not just bits and pieces to suite your narrative of excuses, eh?

So the question is (again)..would your excuses fly with any sovereign nation on Earth? Yes or No.

And still no answer from you, Jhhhnnn, and ILLEGALS supporters of my question. Here it is again... Do we need more smart people for the new economy of the future (high tech and high skill) or more illiterate peasants?

Gotta love your "smut" attitude. No wonder Hillary and Democrats lose big last time. I and other Americans have no love for DT and the Republicans but hell will freeze over before we vote for ILLEGALS supporters. Keep it up with your excuses.

 

[Sea Ray]

What is the charge for being in the country illegally? Felony? Misdemeanor?

The big problem is when you come back after being deported. That's a felony:

http://immigration.findlaw.com/depo...e-u-s-after-removal-crime-and-punishment.html