The Holocaust

[JShaker]

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: JShaker

The Holocaust

Never happened.

Did your mom drop you as a kid? Or is this ignorant stupidity a recent addition?

Relax my friend.
<---
Have a cow.

 

[aphex]

Originally posted by: JShaker

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: JShaker

The Holocaust

Never happened.

Did your mom drop you as a kid? Or is this ignorant stupidity a recent addition?

Relax my friend.
<---
Have a cow.

Im sorry but when you make an assenine comment like the one you did, you insult me and my relatives who died in the tragedy.

I have no reason to relax.

 

[JShaker]

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: JShaker

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: JShaker

The Holocaust

Never happened.

Did your mom drop you as a kid? Or is this ignorant stupidity a recent addition?

Relax my friend. <--- Have a cow.

Im sorry but when you make an assenine comment like the one you did, you insult me and my relatives who died in the tragedy. I have no reason to relax.

NM.
Sorry.

 

[billy2003]

"Throughout the 20th century, small groups of men seized control of great nations, built armies and arsenals, and set out to dominate the weak and intimidate the world"
"In each case, their ambitions of cruelty and murder had no limit. In each case, the ambitions of Hitlerism, militarism and communism were defeated by the will of free peoples, by the strength of great alliances and by the might of the United States of America"

Tell that to these people Bush

http://www.factfinding.org/
I guess nations of the world cares more about trade, natural resources like oil and security than human rights and freedomText

 

[darren]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: Alphazero
WWI killed 20 million. WWII cost 55 million lives, most of them Russian (~20 million). 55 million people!

Irony is that now the French, Russians, Germans, and liberal peaceniks in the US literally have fits when a smart bomb goes off course and hits an unintended target, killing a few civilians in the process.

how is that ironic? they've felt the pain. they don't want others to have to go through it.

 

[darren]

using the holocaust as a backdrop to justify current american military AGGRESSION in iraq or north korea is bullshit.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: darren

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: Alphazero
WWI killed 20 million. WWII cost 55 million lives, most of them Russian (~20 million). 55 million people!

Irony is that now the French, Russians, Germans, and liberal peaceniks in the US literally have fits when a smart bomb goes off course and hits an unintended target, killing a few civilians in the process.

how is that ironic? they've felt the pain. they don't want others to have to go through it.

u mean they've felt the pain in letting evil f*cks have their way because its easier to sit back and hope they go away?

u mean they've not learned from their mistakes. lets see, how the french delt with the germans. sat on their hands until it blew up eh? then they suffered,.. well more like surrendered really. some people never learn

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Grasshopper27
The Holocaust was the systematic, bureaucratic, state-sponsored persecution and murder of approximately six million Jews by the Nazi regime and its collaborators.

In 1933, the Jewish population of Europe stood at over nine million. Most European Jews lived in countries that the Third Reich would occupy or influence during World War II. By 1945, close to two out of every three European Jews had been killed as part of the "Final Solution"

Before beginning the war in 1939, the Nazis established concentration camps to imprison Jews, Roma, other victims of ethnic and racial hatred, and political opponents of Nazism.

Children were especially vulnerable victims of the Nazis. It is estimated that over one million children were murdered under Nazi rule in Germany and occupied Europe.

United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

For my own thoughts...

This all started before the war, 6 years before in fact, in 1933. The world knew for a long time that Germany was committing crimes against humanity for 6 years and did nothing.

Today we know a number of nations around the world are still committing such crimes, yet again we do nothing. For example, in 1994 over 800,000 Tutsis in Rwanda were systematically murdered in a campaign to exterminate their entire race. The world did nothing.

Today, North Korea's leader keeps his people impoverished to the point where an estimated 2 million people have starved in the past 10 years. The world sends food which doesn't get to those who need it, instead it goes to the military. The world does nothing to ensure those who are starving actually get the food. It only pays attention when its own self-interests are at stake.

It should be the responsibility of free nations to ensure this is not allowed to continue. The free world must take action to put a stop to all such violence and killing. No national borders can be allowed to hide and protect those who commit genocide against humanity.

I can think of no greater gift to give to my children than a world free from dictators and despots. That is a fight and a crusade that I would be willing to take on, if only our leaders were willing to commit to it. FDR saw the dangers of Hitler long before the rest of America and long before much of the world. Kennedy saw the dangers of Cuba years before everyone else. It is time that we see the danger of allowing dictators and despots to remain in power anywhere in the world. Our own national borders no longer protect us, their national borders should provide no refuge from our liberation.

Um, your history is not so good.

The systematic murder of Jews and other "undesirables" did not start until 1939. From late 1933 to 1939 there was only a growing practice of discrimination and apartheid. Few Jews were sent to concentration camps before then. Most prisoners were political in nature before 1939. Concentration camps and Jewish Ghettos were not mobolized in earnest until late 1939.

Therefore, the bulk of your post is based on a fallacy. While we knew of Hitler's race laws from the beginning, we had no idea about the concentration camps and systematic murder of "undesirables" until after the war had started because it wasn't happening before then.

The most you can say the US is guilty of is our isolationist policy between 1939 and 1941.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: etech
Thera

A very popular joke in the US during the 1940's was:

Q- How do you fit 40 Jews in a VW?
A- You put them in the ash tray.

It's a sick joke but it also sounds like complete BS.

VW's were not imported to the States in the 40s. Americans would not know the slang VW for Volkswagen at that time. You'll have to prove that statement to me. I don't believe it.

edit/
1949 - January 17th, First official Beetle was bought in America by Ben Pon.

It is total Bullsh!t but then it was Thera who posted it so what do you expect?

 

[yoda291]

Actually, while the Holocaust was definitely not humanity finest achievement, the unfortunate fact is that what is right is solely based on who wins. Who has more muscle or brains or whatever measuring stick you wanna use. If the Axis had won ww2, the Holocaust would prolly not be considered all that bad.

If it's all the same to you all, I'm glad They lost.

Edit: I also forgot to mention, didn't the Russians lose a smackload of people and yet most people don't seem to realize it?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: yoda291
Actually, while the Holocaust was definitely not humanity finest achievement, the unfortunate fact is that what is right is solely based on who wins. Who has more muscle or brains or whatever measuring stick you wanna use. If the Axis had won ww2, the Holocaust would prolly not be considered all that bad.

If it's all the same to you all, I'm glad They lost.

Edit: I also forgot to mention, didn't the Russians lose a smackload of people and yet most people don't seem to realize it?

Of any country, the USSR lost the most people in WWII. Probably because they treated their soldiers like cannon fodder. But not to worry, because Stalin offset that by murdering even more of his own people before and after WWII in the great purges. At least twice as many as Hitler murdered.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: Grasshopper27

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
He argues that a people are responsible for their own government, and that they do support whatever government they have by (if nothing else) passively accepting it. In other words, the people of Iraq could remove Saddam themselves if enough of them wanted it done badly enough. Saddam remaining in power shows that the majority of Iraqis don't want freedom or democracy badly enough to pay the price for it.

There are times when the current government holds enough pressure against its own people that they lack the ability to do anything about it.
. . .
Saddam has the 40,000 strong Republican Guard to protect him, they get well paid and well fed at the expense of the average Iraqi citizen. They have all the guns, all the tanks, all the food, and all the power. You can't fight that with "willpower".

Not easily, nor cheaply, but there are over 22 million citizens, so they outnumber the Republican Guard by 5,000 to 1. If the citizens cared enough they could overrun the Guard and sieze their weapons. The citizens of Iraq are not opposed to Saddam enough to be willing to die to remove him.

Again, I'm not saying that it isn't better for, say, 500 American soldiers to die to free Iraq instead of 10,000 Iraqi citizens dying to free themselves. Just that there is an element of free will in their plight.

You obviously have never lived in such a situation. It takes a huge coordinated effort to revolt, and that revolution would be a failure if the people weren't properly armed. The stricter the government, the less likely revolution is.

 

[43st]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: etech
Thera

A very popular joke in the US during the 1940's was:

Q- How do you fit 40 Jews in a VW?
A- You put them in the ash tray.

It's a sick joke but it also sounds like complete BS.

VW's were not imported to the States in the 40s. Americans would not know the slang VW for Volkswagen at that time. You'll have to prove that statement to me. I don't believe it.

edit/
1949 - January 17th, First official Beetle was bought in America by Ben Pon.

It is total Bullsh!t but then it was Thera who posted it so what do you expect?

You have a wonderful way of ignoring reality. As I said earlier in the thread... Don't take my word for it, ask anyone age 65 or older.

 

[Grasshopper27]

Originally posted by: Alphazero
WWI killed 20 million. WWII cost 55 million lives, most of them Russian (~20 million). 55 million people! We've been learning about WWII and the Holocaust for quite a while at school, including a trip to Poland. It's a difficult subject, almost unbelievable.

*shrug* The figure I remember for WWI was 9 million... Either way, 9 million or 20 million, both way too many!

There are a lot of people who try and claim the holocaust never happened. But then again, there are a lot of really stupid people in the world, so there's the answer to that one.

I completely agree with your first post - the saddest thing is that attrocities of this kind are still happening all over the world. Just last week there was a series of articles in Newsweek about labour camps in North Korea. Change the names, and it sounds like any story straight from Dachau or Majdanek. Not to mention all the genocide we've seen in the past 60 years. "Never again" is a load of BS. Sometimes global politics just makes me sick.

Amen to that!

Edit: BTW, modern research indicates that the number of Jews killed is greater than the preliminary post-war estimates. The number is likely closer to 7 million.

It is hard to imagine 7 million people killed like that. As Bush said in his State of the Union speech, "if these acts are not evil, then evil has no meaning"

Hopper

 

[Grasshopper27]

Originally posted by: Thera
You don't have to believe me. Talk to anyone over 60-70 years old. If you're denying the existence of rampant US antisemtism during that time period you're simply wrong.

BTW, a car doesn't need to be sold in the US for jokes to be made about it. Not to mention it's a poor excuse for an argument.

There is a world of difference between not liking a group of people and going along with their systematic slaughter.

Hopper

 

[Grasshopper27]

Originally posted by: AvesPKS

Saddam has the 40,000 strong Republican Guard to protect him, they get well paid and well fed at the expense of the average Iraqi citizen. They have all the guns, all the tanks, all the food, and all the power. You can't fight that with "willpower".

Hopper

I agree he was under different circumstances...but Gandhi did.

Saddam would simply have Gandhi shot, and anyone following him around shot.

You can't peacefully protest against someone like Saddam, he'll have your children raped and tortured right in front of you. If you're not a parent, then you won't understand, but "ideals" fall apart really quick when your 6 year old boy and 7 year old girl are being tortured and raped in front of you.

Hopper

 

[bleeb]

sucks

 

[vladgur]

Originally posted by: Grasshopper27

Originally posted by: AvesPKS

Saddam has the 40,000 strong Republican Guard to protect him, they get well paid and well fed at the expense of the average Iraqi citizen. They have all the guns, all the tanks, all the food, and all the power. You can't fight that with "willpower".

Hopper

I agree he was under different circumstances...but Gandhi did.

Saddam would simply have Gandhi shot, and anyone following him around shot.

You can't peacefully protest against someone like Saddam, he'll have your children raped and tortured right in front of you. If you're not a parent, then you won't understand, but "ideals" fall apart really quick when your 6 year old boy and 7 year old girl are being tortured and raped in front of you.

Hopper

Im sorry, ill play ignorance here: Is there a precedent for your statement or are you just trying to associate diabolical qualities with the opponent?

 

[Grasshopper27]

Originally posted by: vladgur
Im sorry, ill play ignorance here: Is there a precedent for your statement or are you just trying to associate diabolical qualities with the opponent?

It is well known that Saddam orders such things done. I suppose if you want to doubt the facts, that is your choice.

Hopper

 

[Grasshopper27]