[The Hill]Trump and Putin Held Second Informal Meeting During G20

[thilanliyan]

Russia has not been invaded by anyone since WW2 have they?

 

[Jhhnn]

The first rule of Tautology Club is the first rule of Tautology Club. I reject your fact that Ukraine is deemed buffer country for thw PUSSR regime. I think Ukraine agrees with me, just a feeling. Who cares if tanks are rolling past your front yard if you got nukes in the back? Noone is gonna roll over your fence, NK case in point. Only reason you dont want some country to join a peace club is if you are war mongering yourself. He should really piss off. His spec ops are gaining unrivaled experience in inciting unrest and revolt spesnaz style... he is going to put these skills to use elsewhere as well. 70 years without war in europe. Hello Putin. Thanks but nothanks mkaybye?

Too obvious for Agent00f. Nuclear weapons render a nation invasion proof? Of course they do. That renders his argument meaningless.

 

[agent00f]

Russia has not been invaded by anyone since WW2 have they?

And yet the cold war was hellish expensive for a reason.

The US hasn't been at risk of invasion by anyone yet D hawks agree with maintaining a security buffer more than halfway around the world, so what's your point?

 

[jackstar7]

And yet the cold war was hellish expensive for a reason.

The US hasn't been at risk of invasion by anyone yet D hawks agree with maintaining a security buffer more than halfway around the world, so what's your point?

Russians were phishing U.S. nuclear plants.

The rules are evolving.

I think our national defense is absurdly bloated. I also believe there are real global threats that require investment in order to deter or outright combat.

Pragmatism.

 

[thilanliyan]

And yet the cold war was hellish expensive for a reason.

The US hasn't been at risk of invasion by anyone yet D hawks agree with maintaining a security buffer more than halfway around the world, so what's your point?

I don't think ANY country should be entitled to use ANY OTHER country as a "buffer" for any reason.

 

[agent00f]

Russians were phishing U.S. nuclear plants.

The rules are evolving.

I think our national defense is absurdly bloated. I also believe there are real global threats that require investment in order to deter or outright combat.

Pragmatism.

Pragmatism is avoiding a runup to thermonuclear war by understanding the geopolitical game.

I don't think ANY country should be entitled to use ANY OTHER country as a "buffer" for any reason.

That's nice, but it's not why centrist hawks try to look tough on drugs crime putin.

 

[jackstar7]

Pragmatism is avoiding a runup to thermonuclear war by understanding the geopolitical game.

You should elaborate.

 

[agent00f]

You should elaborate.

I elaborated plenty above that russia as a rational self-interested state will push back against aggressive nato expansion into their backyard. Ponder for a while how the ukranians or iraqis feel being used as a pawns in american hawks' domestic political games.

 

[cytg111]

And yet the cold war was hellish expensive for a reason.

The US hasn't been at risk of invasion by anyone yet D hawks agree with maintaining a security buffer more than halfway around the world, so what's your point?

What is this security buffer you speak of? Peace?

 

[cytg111]

I elaborated plenty above that russia as a rational self-interested state will push back against aggressive nato expansion into their backyard. Ponder for a while how the ukranians or iraqis feel being used as a pawns in american hawks' domestic political games.

I know this is allready in your sphere of considerations but for the sake of being elaborate, where does the holodomor fit into your Ukraine<>Russia relationship?

 

[agent00f]

What is this security buffer you speak of? Peace?

Wars in vietnam, korea, iraq, syria, ukraine, etc seem the opposite of peace.

I know this is allready in your sphere of considerations but for the sake of being elaborate, where does the holodomor fit into your Ukraine<>Russia relationship?

You want me to elaborate that stalin was an asshole? Because you disagree or something?

 

[Jhhnn]

And yet the cold war was hellish expensive for a reason.

The US hasn't been at risk of invasion by anyone yet D hawks agree with maintaining a security buffer more than halfway around the world, so what's your point?

That's for our client states in the region & for our friends like Japan who depend on Persian Gulf Oil. Russia has no such friends.

 

[cytg111]

Ukraine as buffer against invasion from the west is simply historical and geopolitical fact, which isn't going to change unless you've got access to a time machine. Just look at the D hawks talking about freedum there same as neocons talk about freedum in iraq.

70 years without war in europe was achieved by reasonably demarking & respecting bright lines in the sand between thermonuclear military powers, you know playing that game smart. Self-interested greedy hawks cross that line at their own peril, and evidently the peril of others they gamble with.

Thats not the angle I am getting at and I think you know that, Ukraine has been punched around like a dummy in the past does that mean that the same is true for tomorrow? Should it be? * no.

 

[cytg111]

Wars in vietnam, korea, iraq, syria, ukraine, etc seem the opposite of peace.



You want me to elaborate that stalin was an asshole? Because you disagree or something?

Nope, but maybe Soviet was simply protecting its interests, like any superpower would do.
Just getting a feel for where your red line in the sand is.
I think Ukraine has paid enough, endured enough, and I think they should be masters of their own fate... not some numbnuts puppeteers idea of "buffer zone"...

By security zone I took that you meant NATO... I still think you did and now moving the goalposts. Oh well.

 

[agent00f]

That's for our client states in the region & for our friends like Japan who depend on Persian Gulf Oil. Russia has no such friends.

No, russia has their friends often on the other sides of those disputes, plus plenty more in this very country. I'd say to ponder how that is, but let's not pretending pondering anything is meant for you.

Thats not the angle I am getting at and I think you know that, Ukraine has been punched around like a dummy in the past does that mean that the same is true for tomorrow? Should it be? * no.

Nope, but maybe Soviet was simply protecting its interests, like any superpower would do.
Just getting a feel for where your red line in the sand is.
I think Ukraine has paid enough, endured enough, and I think they should be masters of their own fate... not some numbnuts puppeteers idea of "buffer zone"...

The poor north koreans have been punched like dummies, too. Doesn't mean fighting the korean war over again is the smarter course of action. In any case that has nothing to do with why hawks use foreigners as pawns in domestic politics.

 

[Jhhnn]

No, russia has their friends often on the other sides of those disputes, plus plenty more in this very country. I'd say to ponder how that is, but let's not pretending pondering anything is meant for you.

Which friends, other than the Syrians? There was a time when they had more friends other than various 'stans, 'tis true, but that ended long ago.

Perhaps you'd care to elaborate rather than just insinuate about Russia's friends in this country, as well, point out which multinationals place their own interests above those of America.

 

[agent00f]

Which friends, other than the Syrians? There was a time when they had more friends other than various 'stans, 'tis true, but that ended long ago.

He certainly had friends in Ukraine, and all those other countries still buying their arms along with Turkey and others in the region who see the geopolitical realities for what they are. Contrast that to naive liberals who actually believe in freedumb as opposed to their degen counterparts who just pretend.

Perhaps you'd care to elaborate rather than just insinuate about Russia's friends in this country, as well, point out which multinationals place their own interests above those of America.

I think even you're astute enough to observe our resident race realist and reagan cold warrior shill for his Russian puppet birther magnate.

 

[Jhhnn]

He certainly had friends in Ukraine, and all those other countries still buying their arms along with Turkey and others in the region who see the geopolitical realities for what they are. Contrast that to naive liberals who actually believe in freedumb as opposed to their degen counterparts who just pretend.



I think even you're astute enough to observe our resident race realist and reagan cold warrior shill for his Russian puppet birther magnate.

Turkey is a Nato member, remember? They'll remain as such simply to keep the Russians away from the Bosphorus, something they've craved for hundreds of years. The Turks have no intention of becoming a Russian buffer. Neither did the Ukrainians.

 

[agent00f]

Turkey is a Nato member, remember? They'll remain as such simply to keep the Russians away from the Bosphorus, something they've craved for hundreds of years. The Turks have no intention of becoming a Russian buffer. Neither did the Ukrainians.

Erdogan certainly doesn't see it that way.

 

[Jhhnn]

Erdogan certainly doesn't see it that way.

The basis for that claim is what, exactly? Has Erdogan said he wants to become a Russian buffer?

 

[zinfamous]

So did the germans, and the swedes before all that, etc. I'm just pointing out the simple fact that Russia will act in their security self-interest to maintain that buffer zone, same as democratic hawks will act in their self-interest to protect the party line on "defense".

no one wants to invade Russia. You understand that they are paranoid and delusional, right? There is no buffer zone protecting them from everyone--that is the panic zone that Russia is absolutely determined to steal whenever they can. You understand that, right? That is the truth.

Let's stop arguing about what Russia believes, lets talk about reality, OK?

It can't be more simple: Russia just needs to stop organizing monthly military maneuvers on the Baltic borders, cease activity in and around Georgia, return their Indian-given gains that is Crimea and remove their troops from independent Ukraine, and sign a pact to respect international borders.

That's it. No one is threatening Russia. No one. It isn't happening. It hasn't happened in a time frame that is relevant to the geopolitical order of the day. Russia is the aggressor, as always. Why are you defending them? are you an anti-western bigot? I think you are racist.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Oh boy "internal leakers say"
Trump is investigating feasibility of pardoning his family members and Manaford(?) plus a blanket pardon for Trump himself

Per a clip I just heard on the Maddow show.

 

[jackstar7]

Oh boy "internal leakers say"
Trump is investigating feasibility of pardoning his family members and Manaford(?) plus a blanket pardon for Trump himself

Per a clip I just heard on the Maddow show.

So now the question that immediately follows is: pardon for what?

Follow-up to that: will Congress impeach to work around any pardons for himself?

 

[pcgeek11]

And Louise Mensch is saying that they ( Trump and Bannon ) are getting the death penalty.

https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/louise-mensch-trump-bannon-treason/

https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch/status/887641703817121793

 

[jackstar7]

And Louise Mensch is saying that they ( Trump and Bannon ) are getting the death penalty.

https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/louise-mensch-trump-bannon-treason/

https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch/status/887641703817121793

You're better off reading what Jester does. Louise is a tool.