[The Hill]Trump and Putin Held Second Informal Meeting During G20

[MomentsofSanity]

Again more bad decisions by trump.

"
That Trump was not joined in the conversation by his own translator is a breach of national security protocol, according to Ian Bremmer, president of the Eurasia Group, though one that the president likely would not know about."

This guy has not one lick of sense, common or not. I am embarrassed for my fellow Americans, and for the rest or the world for that matter.

This right here is about the only concern I have with this. Jesus you rely on a Russian translator only? Smh

 

[agent00f]

Nato wooed both Ukraine & Georgia even as Russia depended on Ukraine for strategic bases in Crimea. Yanukovych was their guy in Ukraine. Ukraine fell into disarray & the Ukrainian Right Front served as muscle for a revolution, ousting Yanukovych. Moscow saw that they were no longer reliable partners so they seized Crimea bloodlessly. It's 85% Russian, so they were probably happy to get away from what was happening in Kiev. Putin went even further, sponsoring an "uprising" in the Donbass, home to industries of strategic importance to Ukraine.

The poor bastards in Ukraine have been getting screwed by the Russians, their own corrupt oligarchs & western bankers as well. It's been a grand looting spree. The whole point of sanctions is to force Putin into making Ukraine a deal they can live with.

The clinton democrats were already pushing aggression and antagonism against russia before that, basically looking tough to get some white welfare votes. The russians could accept a puppet or at least a buddy in ukraine, but not NATO. So they did what they needed to secure their immediate sphere.

So it was the centrist democrats who ended up screwing ukraine et al, because they got greedy going after a domestic ballot advantage. There's literally nothing the US can do about a rival thermonuclear power's back yard, but clinton & co pushed their luck and we get to be the puppet in ukraine's place.

 

[Jhhnn]

The clinton democrats were already pushing aggression and antagonism against russia before that, basically looking tough to get some white welfare votes. The russians could accept a puppet or at least a buddy in ukraine, but not NATO. So they did what they needed to secure their immediate sphere.

You mean Syria? Or what?

So it was the centrist democrats who ended up screwing ukraine et al, because they got greedy going after a domestic ballot advantage. There's literally nothing the US can do about a rival thermonuclear power's back yard, but clinton & co pushed their luck and we get to be the puppet in ukraine's place.

Hardly. Putin exploited their weakness, plain & simple.

 

[agent00f]

You mean Syria? Or what?

No, ukraine.

Hardly. Putin exploited their weakness, plain & simple.

The puppet's also your president.

 

[UberNeuman]

WTF ?

Are you proud Americans ? Land of the free and the home of the brave ?
You're whining like a bunch of pussies.

Clinton lost the elections because the Democrats fucked up. They underestimate Trump. They pushed Clinton as their candidate, because "it was her turn". In stead of following true democratic principles. The democrats failed to point out what Republicans have done under Reagan, Bush and Bush. How a new Republican government is gonna make life miserable for the majority of US voters. (Trump is not the danger. He's just a clown. The Republicans are the danger).

But now, it seems Democrats and their voters are gonna whine about how "we got robbed!".
They fvcked up. Own up to it. Go back to doing politics in stead of trying to win just by marketing and advertising and meaningless rethoric. Forget about Russia. Focus on how the Republicans are gonna get thousands of people killed because of lack of healthcare. Show how middle-class incomes are going down. Show how only the rich get tax-breaks. Show the US people how the Republicans want to make life more unfair. Do you job. Forget about Russians.

Nyet.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

WTF ?

Are you proud Americans ? Land of the free and the home of the brave ?
You're whining like a bunch of pussies.

Clinton lost the elections because the Democrats fucked up. They underestimate Trump. They pushed Clinton as their candidate, because "it was her turn". In stead of following true democratic principles. The democrats failed to point out what Republicans have done under Reagan, Bush and Bush. How a new Republican government is gonna make life miserable for the majority of US voters. (Trump is not the danger. He's just a clown. The Republicans are the danger).

But now, it seems Democrats and their voters are gonna whine about how "we got robbed!".
They fvcked up. Own up to it. Go back to doing politics in stead of trying to win just by marketing and advertising and meaningless rethoric. Forget about Russia. Focus on how the Republicans are gonna get thousands of people killed because of lack of healthcare. Show how middle-class incomes are going down. Show how only the rich get tax-breaks. Show the US people how the Republicans want to make life more unfair. Do you job. Forget about Russians.

Um... if this pans out, the russia story, it will be the largest seditious act by any administration in our history, so maybe we don't shelve it.
Most sane people can rationalize a few things about this story so far
1) there is an ever increasing amount of evidence of collusion between russia and the drumpf campaign
2) drumpf jr is lying, and has been caught, you may not like that, but it's the truth
3) drumpf and his campaign are changing their stories as the investigation digs in (is it officially an investigation yet? I don't think so, that'd be huge news)
4) we have seen drumpf slip and slide and maneuver his way out of spots that have sunk many, many, many people before him
5) I want to wait until all the evidence has been collected and see what happens, it's still too early to make any legal moves against the drumpf campaign, but I feel there will be

So no, not dropping russia, I live in a 'can-do' country, I can fucking well follow the story of the russia collusion as well as show how fucking heartless those gop congress/house members are, as well as talk about how my check isn't increasing at the rate the expenses are and explain that a tax break on the middle class does benefit society more than one on the rich.

 

[Jhhnn]

No, ukraine.


The puppet's also your president.

You fail to backup your assertion that the US was aggressive towards Russia in Ukraine. They annexed Crimea long after the 2012 election & some time before the 2014 election in this country. Sanctions were approved by both the Senate & HOR, as well. It wasn't a point of partisan contention in the 2014 election at all.

So, uhh, you're not American? Trump is "your" president rather than "our" president?

You also offered this earlier, which seemed strange as well- "To be more accurate it was the aggressive NATO push to ally with Ukraine that motivated Putin to install a puppet government here instead."

 

[agent00f]

You fail to backup your assertion that the US was aggressive towards Russia in Ukraine. They annexed Crimea long after the 2012 election & some time before the 2014 election in this country. Sanctions were approved by both the Senate & HOR, as well. It wasn't a point of partisan contention in the 2014 election at all.

So, uhh, you're not American? Trump is "your" president rather than "our" president?

You also offered this earlier, which seemed strange as well- "To be more accurate it was the aggressive NATO push to ally with Ukraine that motivated Putin to install a puppet government here instead."

The US/Clinton backed deposing Yanukovych and NATO expansion into Ukraine. Russia losing friendly control over Ukraine is what prompted Crimean annexation and military intervention in the east.

Look I know you have a lot trouble processing facts so take some time to think and long about the conflicting interests here and subsequent consequences if you should choose to reply

 

[senseamp]

Syrup or Jelly?

 

[cytg111]

The US/Clinton backed deposing Yanukovych and NATO expansion into Ukraine. Russia losing friendly control over Ukraine is what prompted Crimean annexation and military intervention in the east.

Look I know you have a lot trouble processing facts so take some time to think and long about the conflicting interests here and subsequent consequences if you should choose to reply

You mean this Viktor?
øhttps://www.irishtimes.com/news/wor...ve-ex-president-yanukovich-1.3071639?mode=amp
That guy was essentally the Ukrainian Trump version and he went directly in opposition to what the people wanted : tighter relations with the EU. So Putin fcked them over. Again. Sort of missed cause Viktor was tossed sort of not cause Crimea and the east. But you are right, its the same play you see with Trump.

 

[Gryz]

he went directly in opposition to what the people wanted : tighter relations with the EU.

This is the western narrative.
Fact is that they had democratic elections, and the majority of the country voted for Yanukovych. He's a scumbag. But so are Tymoshenko and Poroshenko. If you google, you'll find numerous reliable stories on how corrupt they all are. The Ukraine is the most corrupt country in Europe.
The democratically elected government got overthrown. With violence. By whom ? Not all of the population. Just a part. Backed by the US and the EU. The people in the Ukraine have different political views, just like Americans have polarized political sides. A third of the population has Russian roots, family in Russia, business ties with Russia. They even speak Russian as the official second language. Ukraine doesn't say "fuck Russia, we love the west". Yet there was that coupe, and the west was applauding like the Allies had liberated western Europe in WW2.

I was really surprised by all the western reporting. Not only in the US, but also in Europe. So biased, it's unbelievable. And this is something completely new. Came out of nowhere in 2014. Yes, Russia was a second-world country, corrupt, lots of crime. Politically there is a lot wrong there. But the majority is still voting for Putin. All this was not a problem during 1990-2013. And suddenly in 2014 Russia is the big bad enemy again. And that changed happened during Obama. Really weird.

 

[Maxima1]

To be more accurate it was the aggressive NATO push to ally with Ukraine that motivated Putin to install a puppet government here instead.

So you think Russia wouldn't meddle anywhere as long as the US doesn't? If Russia and China had as much influence and strength as the US does, you can bet they wouldn't just let alone everything if they had the capability to mold the world as they see fit.

"The breakup of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century." -- Vlad

 

[Thump553]

I repeat what I've said before-if I lived in Eastern Europe I'd be looking ahead to a Russian takeover of my country in the very near future. Once Putin has succeeded in breaking the USA out of NATO would be ideal from Putin's viewpoint.

Two other things I'm greatly concerned about: (1) only one translator-a Russian-that's never done in diplomacy. It means Putin knows everything that was said (odds are the translator secretly recorded it as well) while Trump has to trust and rely on what is being said to him as accurate and rely solely on his memory, and (2) what state secrets did Trump leak to the Russians this time around?

Sedition charges are over the top, but this is a prime example of utter stupidity and an action certainly not in the USA's best interests.

 

[Gryz]

Um... if this pans out, the russia story, it will be the largest seditious act by any administration in our history, so maybe we don't shelve it.

Trump is a sleazy businessman.
And he runs his Presidency as if he still is a sleazy businessman.

That includes making shady deals. Using his personal contact. The way you do something doesn't matter, as long as the result is good. I'm sure he used his old Russian business contacts. I'm sure he and his team talked to any party that they thought they could get benefits from.

But you are not at war with Russia. Russia is not the enemy. Talking to Russians is not treason.

Are other politicians not just like that ? Don't you think the Bush-clan has had extensive meetings with Saudi-Arabians before GWB got elected ? Don't you think any US presidency-candidate needs to be approved by Israel ? Don't you think the Bush-clan used all their contacts in the oil-industry ? I'm sure that all happened. And that wasn't treason either. Sleazy, yes. Ethically wrong ? Sure. But not treason.

So why the focus on this ? Trump is a clown. He can hardly walk straight without tripping himself. So Democrats seem to think that if they find the right stick, they can make Trump trip and fall. Well, Trump is a clown and an amateur. But he's been a clown and an amateur his whole life. He's used to working in a sloppy way, he's used to selling lies with a straight face. He's not good at anything. Except conning people. And that's what he's gonna continue to do. And he won't get impeached, won't get convicted. Because US politicians can invade other countries and kill millions of people, and burn the place down, and no US politician will ever face consequences for their actions. Ever. And neither will Trump for something as dumb as talking to Russians.

In the mean time, the Republicans are working hard to rob the american people.
And Trump is their distraction.

 

[HomerJS]

Trump is a sleazy businessman.

But you are not at war with Russia. Russia is not the enemy. Talking to Russians is not treason.
.

You really want this big dummy talking with Putin one-one without any national security staff? No note taker so we have no recording what was said and no American translator? Really? Remember what we got the last time those two put their heads together. A joint American-Russia cyber hacking task force. In what universe did anyone think this was in our best interest? Oh yeah the Trump universe.

Who knows what Putin talked Trump into. Also Trump can't be trusted so we need an accurate account of what went on.

 

[cytg111]

This is the western narrative.
Fact is that they had democratic elections, and the majority of the country voted for Yanukovych. He's a scumbag. But so are Tymoshenko and Poroshenko. If you google, you'll find numerous reliable stories on how corrupt they all are. The Ukraine is the most corrupt country in Europe.
The democratically elected government got overthrown. With violence. By whom ? Not all of the population. Just a part. Backed by the US and the EU. The people in the Ukraine have different political views, just like Americans have polarized political sides. A third of the population has Russian roots, family in Russia, business ties with Russia. They even speak Russian as the official second language. Ukraine doesn't say "fuck Russia, we love the west". Yet there was that coupe, and the west was applauding like the Allies had liberated western Europe in WW2.

I was really surprised by all the western reporting. Not only in the US, but also in Europe. So biased, it's unbelievable. And this is something completely new. Came out of nowhere in 2014. Yes, Russia was a second-world country, corrupt, lots of crime. Politically there is a lot wrong there. But the majority is still voting for Putin. All this was not a problem during 1990-2013. And suddenly in 2014 Russia is the big bad enemy again. And that changed happened during Obama. Really weird.

A democracy isnt a democracy if its subverted by internal or foreign agents. If you believe that Putin is installed as president of Russia by democratic means then you and I have different values for democratic. You cant just say 'democratic cause elections', i guess Turmenistan is a democracy as well then, cause the pres was elected with 97%. Yanukovych was elected in part for a pro western EU mindset and when he comitted a 180-crazy-Ivan the Ukrainians took to the streets. Lots and lots of them. Yanukovych sold out his country for a paycheck and it didnt take.
Ukraine has a deep history of corruption yes but still, in contrast to its bigger brother Russia, a democracy.
I would like to think if evidence turned out that the POTUS is a Putin clone in a Trump suit that immediate actions was taken to remove that agent from power.

And I would love it for Russia not to be the enemy, tell me, when Ukraine negotiated for tighter relations with the EU why didnt big brother Russia tap little brother on the shoulder and go "I can get a better deal for the both os us"... Imagine a world with trade deals and open borders with the big Bear that would be absolutely fantastic. Putin dont want that. I am sure Russia wants it, just not Putin and regime.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Trump is a sleazy businessman.
And he runs his Presidency as if he still is a sleazy businessman.

That includes making shady deals. Using his personal contact. The way you do something doesn't matter, as long as the result is good. I'm sure he used his old Russian business contacts. I'm sure he and his team talked to any party that they thought they could get benefits from.

But you are not at war with Russia. Russia is not the enemy. Talking to Russians is not treason.

Are other politicians not just like that ? Don't you think the Bush-clan has had extensive meetings with Saudi-Arabians before GWB got elected ? Don't you think any US presidency-candidate needs to be approved by Israel ? Don't you think the Bush-clan used all their contacts in the oil-industry ? I'm sure that all happened. And that wasn't treason either. Sleazy, yes. Ethically wrong ? Sure. But not treason.

So why the focus on this ? Trump is a clown. He can hardly walk straight without tripping himself. So Democrats seem to think that if they find the right stick, they can make Trump trip and fall. Well, Trump is a clown and an amateur. But he's been a clown and an amateur his whole life. He's used to working in a sloppy way, he's used to selling lies with a straight face. He's not good at anything. Except conning people. And that's what he's gonna continue to do. And he won't get impeached, won't get convicted. Because US politicians can invade other countries and kill millions of people, and burn the place down, and no US politician will ever face consequences for their actions. Ever. And neither will Trump for something as dumb as talking to Russians.

In the mean time, the Republicans are working hard to rob the american people.
And Trump is their distraction.

Sorry, I am going to depend on legal experts as to the legitimacy of drumpfs campaigns alleged collusion with russia, not some anonymous internet being. And as far as other people doing it, zero fucks given, drumpf is in the whitehouse right now. If they want to persecute other people after they finish the drumpf investigation, so be it.
why focus on this? I think I was extremely clear, this has the potential to be the largest act of sedition by any president, ever, in 240+ years of our country. So, instead, I'd ask why you are think we should drop it?
Do you not see all the evidence around this? The potential implications if found to be true? Do you deny there is an ever growing pile of evidence? Like I said, I live in a 'can-do' country, we can handle multi-tasking, it's what we do.

 

[Commodus]

Trump is a sleazy businessman.
And he runs his Presidency as if he still is a sleazy businessman.

That includes making shady deals. Using his personal contact. The way you do something doesn't matter, as long as the result is good. I'm sure he used his old Russian business contacts. I'm sure he and his team talked to any party that they thought they could get benefits from.

But you are not at war with Russia. Russia is not the enemy. Talking to Russians is not treason.

Are other politicians not just like that ? Don't you think the Bush-clan has had extensive meetings with Saudi-Arabians before GWB got elected ? Don't you think any US presidency-candidate needs to be approved by Israel ? Don't you think the Bush-clan used all their contacts in the oil-industry ? I'm sure that all happened. And that wasn't treason either. Sleazy, yes. Ethically wrong ? Sure. But not treason.

So why the focus on this ? Trump is a clown. He can hardly walk straight without tripping himself. So Democrats seem to think that if they find the right stick, they can make Trump trip and fall. Well, Trump is a clown and an amateur. But he's been a clown and an amateur his whole life. He's used to working in a sloppy way, he's used to selling lies with a straight face. He's not good at anything. Except conning people. And that's what he's gonna continue to do. And he won't get impeached, won't get convicted. Because US politicians can invade other countries and kill millions of people, and burn the place down, and no US politician will ever face consequences for their actions. Ever. And neither will Trump for something as dumb as talking to Russians.

In the mean time, the Republicans are working hard to rob the american people.
And Trump is their distraction.

Putin has political opponents and critics assassinated. As long as he's in power, Russia must always be an enemy.

And you don't seem to be putting two and two together. Putin knows Trump is a clown, and he's taking advantage of it -- getting concessions that no other American leader would offer, taking actions knowing that Trump either doesn't know how to respond or will take a soft response. There's a good reason why Russia championed for Trump to win the election: it's because they know they can play him like a fiddle.

That's why we're so concerned about incidents like this. The domestic policy is bad enough, but we don't want a hostile country (and the Russian government is hostile) running roughshod over US sovereignty with someone who's clueless at best, and actively colluding at worst.

 

[UNCjigga]

I think Putin is trolling this administration hard, and Trump keeps falling for it every time. First the Russian press leaked photos of them holding hands just as bad press on Russian meddling was breaking. Then we find out classified Israeli intelligence was shared with an Assad ally, without first clearing it with our intelligence community or Israel.

So now Putin just had Trump one on one with no US support staff for an hour, in front of 18 of world's top leaders. Putin is sowing the seeds of mistrust and isolation, and I wouldn't be surprised if more allies decide not to share critical intelligence with the President.

 

[DrunkenSano]

He probably sold Alaska back to them for a very very beautiful price.

Seriously though this is incredibly irresponsible at best. He's basically daring the GOP house to pass Russia sanctions now...which could end up his only major legislative "achievement" of the year. I wonder if he'd veto it..

Sarah Palin included? Worth.

 

[UNCjigga]

Sarah Palin included? Worth.

Now she really can see Russia from her house!

 

[kage69]

Small mind exercise:

WHAT IF THE RUSSIANS AREN'T THE ENEMY !

It's peace time, you know. Not war. McCarthy has died decades ago.
There are worse countries and dictators than Russia. You might not like Putin, but after the Russians got a taste of what capitalism would bring them, during the mid-nineties, they actually vote for Putin. It's democracy at work. Now look at your buddies Saudi-Arabia, Turkey. If you can be friends with them, you can be friends with the Russians too.

Small history exercise:

What was the reaction from the right when Obama said 'the Cold War wants it's foreign policy back' ?

Russia, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey: which of these countries undermines American interests whenever, wherever possible? Which interfered with American democracy to put a sympathetic demagogue in office?

Extra credit - Ditch your Fox and Friends bullshit and link someone here who really counts Erdogan or Sa'udis as a "buddy."

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I wonder if Puti suggested ass to ass during the private meeting?

*I was going to post the YouTube video but decided I'd get yelled at for doing that.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

WTF ?

Are you proud Americans ? Land of the free and the home of the brave ?
You're whining like a bunch of pussies.

Clinton lost the elections because the Democrats fucked up. They underestimate Trump. They pushed Clinton as their candidate, because "it was her turn". In stead of following true democratic principles. The democrats failed to point out what Republicans have done under Reagan, Bush and Bush. How a new Republican government is gonna make life miserable for the majority of US voters. (Trump is not the danger. He's just a clown. The Republicans are the danger).

But now, it seems Democrats and their voters are gonna whine about how "we got robbed!".
They fvcked up. Own up to it. Go back to doing politics in stead of trying to win just by marketing and advertising and meaningless rethoric. Forget about Russia. Focus on how the Republicans are gonna get thousands of people killed because of lack of healthcare. Show how middle-class incomes are going down. Show how only the rich get tax-breaks. Show the US people how the Republicans want to make life more unfair. Do you job. Forget about Russians.

Please, how is any Canidate expected to win when a Super Power with unlimited funds, unlimited time, unlimited expertise and zero accountability is backing another Canidate.
Regarding your previous point of the US meddling in other elections.
I do the fucking, I don't get fucked.
Finally why on Earth is someone who appears to not live in the US so obsessed about why Hillary lost?

 

[J.Wilkins]

Nato wooed both Ukraine & Georgia even as Russia depended on Ukraine for strategic bases in Crimea. Yanukovych was their guy in Ukraine. Ukraine fell into disarray & the Ukrainian Right Front served as muscle for a revolution, ousting Yanukovych. Moscow saw that they were no longer reliable partners so they seized Crimea bloodlessly. It's 85% Russian, so they were probably happy to get away from what was happening in Kiev. Putin went even further, sponsoring an "uprising" in the Donbass, home to industries of strategic importance to Ukraine.

The poor bastards in Ukraine have been getting screwed by the Russians, their own corrupt oligarchs & western bankers as well. It's been a grand looting spree. The whole point of sanctions is to force Putin into making Ukraine a deal they can live with.

Yanukovych was elected on the basis of his support for the EU and westernisation, he sold out completely when Putin asked him to. He lived in extreme luxury while his people starved, he attempted to achieve what other Putin puppets have, a lifelong dictatorship where the people pay for his luxury.

The people didn't want to go back to being a puppet state to Russia, effectively ruled by Putin so they started a revolution to oust the corrupt Putin puppet.