The HD Format War Thread

[Schadenfroh]

The War is over

Tokyo?Toshiba Corporation today announced that it has undertaken a thorough review of its overall strategy for HD DVD and has decided it will no longer develop, manufacture and market HD DVD players and recorders. This decision has been made following recent major changes in the market. Toshiba will continue, however, to provide full product support and after-sales service for all owners of Toshiba HD DVD products.

HD DVD was developed to offer consumers access at an affordable price to high-quality, high definition content and prepare them for the digital convergence of tomorrow where the fusion of consumer electronics and IT will continue to progress.

?We carefully assessed the long-term impact of continuing the so-called 'next-generation format war' and concluded that a swift decision will best help the market develop,? said Atsutoshi Nishida, President and CEO of Toshiba Corporation. "While we are disappointed for the company and more importantly, for the consumer, the real mass market opportunity for high definition content remains untapped and Toshiba is both able and determined to use our talent, technology and intellectual property to make digital convergence a reality.?

Toshiba will continue to lead innovation, in a wide range of technologies that will drive mass market access to high definition content. These include high capacity NAND flash memory, small form factor hard disk drives, next generation CPUs, visual processing, and wireless and encryption technologies. The company expects to make forthcoming announcements around strategic progress in these convergence technologies.

Toshiba will begin to reduce shipments of HD DVD players and recorders to retail channels, aiming for cessation of these businesses by the end of March 2008. Toshiba also plans to end volume production of HD DVD disk drives for such applications as PCs and games in the same timeframe, yet will continue to make efforts to meet customer requirements. The company will continue to assess the position of notebook PCs with integrated HD DVD drives within the overall PC business relative to future market demand.

This decision will not impact on Toshiba?s commitment to standard DVD, and the company will continue to market conventional DVD players and recorders. Toshiba intends to continue to contribute to the development of the DVD industry, as a member of the DVD Forum, an international organization with some 200 member companies, committed to the discussion and defining of optimum optical disc formats for the consumer and the related industries.

Toshiba also intends to maintain collaborative relations with the companies who joined with Toshiba in working to build up the HD DVD market, including Universal Studios, Paramount Pictures, and DreamWorks Animation and major Japanese and European content providers on the entertainment side, as well as leaders in the IT industry, including Microsoft, Intel, and HP. Toshiba will study possible collaboration with these companies for future business opportunities, utilizing the many assets generated through the development of HD DVD.

 

[DaveSimmons]

TheDigitalBits has the week ending 11/27 numbers for retail disc sales from Nielsen/Videoscan:

Blu-ray 82%, HD-DVD 18%

That's the third week in a row since WB went blu that BD has outsold HD-DVD by more than 4-1. Year-to-date disc sales are Blu-ray 77%, HD-DVD 23%.

This doesn't include game discs, pack-ins, or 5-free-by-mail discs.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Blu-ray 82%, HD-DVD 18%

The tide is finally turning. HD DVD only had 17% of the market last week; now they're at 18%. By September 2009, HD DVD will have 100% market share for HDM.

Game over Blu-Ray.

 

[cliftonite]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Blu-ray 82%, HD-DVD 18%

The tide is finally turning. HD DVD only had 17% of the market last week; now they're at 18%. By September 2009, HD DVD will have 100% market share for HDM.

Game over Blu-Ray.

Who cares I can still use my Blu-ray player for the 100s of existing titles and it is one of the best upconverting players out there (PS3).

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: cliftonite
Who cares I can still use my Blu-ray player for the 100s of existing titles and it is one of the best upconverting players out there (PS3).

The PS3 is not a good blu-ray player.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: cliftonite
Who cares I can still use my Blu-ray player for the 100s of existing titles and it is one of the best upconverting players out there (PS3).

The PS3 is not a good blu-ray player.

I was under the impressionit was one of the best if not the best.

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: cliftonite
Who cares I can still use my Blu-ray player for the 100s of existing titles and it is one of the best upconverting players out there (PS3).

The PS3 is not a good blu-ray player.

I was under the impressionit was one of the best if not the best.

Don't pay any attention to the last 3 post before yours. It's just the Blu-ray freaks having a bit of fun.

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: cliftonite
Who cares I can still use my Blu-ray player for the 100s of existing titles and it is one of the best upconverting players out there (PS3).

The PS3 is not a good blu-ray player.

I was under the impressionit was one of the best if not the best.

They think they are comedians.

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: Red DawnI was under the impressionit was one of the best if not the best.

No DTS HD or Dolby HD. Best player at the moment is the Panasonic BD30.

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: Red DawnI was under the impressionit was one of the best if not the best.

No DTS HD or Dolby HD. Best player at the moment is the Panasonic BD30.

I would agree with you, but the BD30 has a problem with the LFE being lowered by 5db when playing a PCM soundtrack.

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: Red DawnI was under the impressionit was one of the best if not the best.

No DTS HD or Dolby HD. Best player at the moment is the Panasonic BD30.

I would agree with you, but the BD30 has a problem with the LFE being lowered by 5db when playing a PCM soundtrack.

It also has a horrible scaler. So if you want to watch DVDs on it or use a 720p display (like a projector), it is the wrong blu-ray player for you.

Seriously, there are no blu-ray players on the market right now that can do everything. I don't understand why it's so difficult.

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: Muadib
I would agree with you, but the BD30 has a problem with the LFE being lowered by 5db when playing a PCM soundtrack.

Hmm, I didn't know that. Easy enough though to simply up the dB value going to the sub via my receivers setup menu, or physically on the sub itself.

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: Muadib
I would agree with you, but the BD30 has a problem with the LFE being lowered by 5db when playing a PCM soundtrack.

Hmm, I didn't know that. Easy enough though to simply up the dB value going to the sub via my receivers setup menu, or physically on the sub itself.

Yeah, thats my fix, but then your redirected bass also goes up, and becomes too
hot. It's also a pain to remember to turn it back down. Panasonic better fix this.

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: Shawn

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: Red DawnI was under the impressionit was one of the best if not the best.

No DTS HD or Dolby HD. Best player at the moment is the Panasonic BD30.

I would agree with you, but the BD30 has a problem with the LFE being lowered by 5db when playing a PCM soundtrack.

It also has a horrible scaler. So if you want to watch DVDs on it or use a 720p display (like a projector), it is the wrong blu-ray player for you.

Seriously, there are no blu-ray players on the market right now that can do everything. I don't understand why it's so difficult.

The scaler is far from horrible. Is it as good as a HDDVD player, no. But I wouldn't call it horrible.

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: Shawn

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: Red DawnI was under the impressionit was one of the best if not the best.

No DTS HD or Dolby HD. Best player at the moment is the Panasonic BD30.

I would agree with you, but the BD30 has a problem with the LFE being lowered by 5db when playing a PCM soundtrack.

It also has a horrible scaler. So if you want to watch DVDs on it or use a 720p display (like a projector), it is the wrong blu-ray player for you.

Seriously, there are no blu-ray players on the market right now that can do everything. I don't understand why it's so difficult.

The scaler is far from horrible. Is it as good as a HDDVD player, no. But I wouldn't call it horrible.

Someone on AVS reported that the scaler on the BD30 is worse than the scaler of his projector. It looked better to set the player to 1080i and have the projector scale it down to it's native resolution of 720p, than it was to set the player to 720p. Needless to say he exchanged it for a Samsung BD-P1400 and reported that the quality was much better!

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: Shawn

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: Shawn

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: Red DawnI was under the impressionit was one of the best if not the best.

No DTS HD or Dolby HD. Best player at the moment is the Panasonic BD30.

I would agree with you, but the BD30 has a problem with the LFE being lowered by 5db when playing a PCM soundtrack.

It also has a horrible scaler. So if you want to watch DVDs on it or use a 720p display (like a projector), it is the wrong blu-ray player for you.

Seriously, there are no blu-ray players on the market right now that can do everything. I don't understand why it's so difficult.

The scaler is far from horrible. Is it as good as a HDDVD player, no. But I wouldn't call it horrible.

Someone on AVS reported that the scaler on the BD30 is worse than the scaler of his projector. It looked better to set the player to 1080i and have the projector scale it down to it's native resolution of 720p, than it was to set the player to 720p. Needless to say he exchanged it for a Samsung BD-P1400 and reported that the quality was much better!

Did you see many post saying basically the same thing, or was it just one guy?

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: Shawn

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: Shawn

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: Red DawnI was under the impressionit was one of the best if not the best.

No DTS HD or Dolby HD. Best player at the moment is the Panasonic BD30.

I would agree with you, but the BD30 has a problem with the LFE being lowered by 5db when playing a PCM soundtrack.

It also has a horrible scaler. So if you want to watch DVDs on it or use a 720p display (like a projector), it is the wrong blu-ray player for you.

Seriously, there are no blu-ray players on the market right now that can do everything. I don't understand why it's so difficult.

The scaler is far from horrible. Is it as good as a HDDVD player, no. But I wouldn't call it horrible.

Someone on AVS reported that the scaler on the BD30 is worse than the scaler of his projector. It looked better to set the player to 1080i and have the projector scale it down to it's native resolution of 720p, than it was to set the player to 720p. Needless to say he exchanged it for a Samsung BD-P1400 and reported that the quality was much better!

Did you see many post saying basically the same thing, or was it just one guy?

Well it seems to be the general consensus over there. This is the official thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=936144

There are 5600+ replies though, so good luck going through it.

 

[Shawn]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb...highlight=bd30+scaling
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb...highlight=bd30+scaling

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: Shawn

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: Shawn

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: Shawn

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: Red DawnI was under the impressionit was one of the best if not the best.

No DTS HD or Dolby HD. Best player at the moment is the Panasonic BD30.

I would agree with you, but the BD30 has a problem with the LFE being lowered by 5db when playing a PCM soundtrack.

It also has a horrible scaler. So if you want to watch DVDs on it or use a 720p display (like a projector), it is the wrong blu-ray player for you.

Seriously, there are no blu-ray players on the market right now that can do everything. I don't understand why it's so difficult.

The scaler is far from horrible. Is it as good as a HDDVD player, no. But I wouldn't call it horrible.

Someone on AVS reported that the scaler on the BD30 is worse than the scaler of his projector. It looked better to set the player to 1080i and have the projector scale it down to it's native resolution of 720p, than it was to set the player to 720p. Needless to say he exchanged it for a Samsung BD-P1400 and reported that the quality was much better!

Did you see many post saying basically the same thing, or was it just one guy?

Well it seems to be the general consensus over there. This is the official thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=936144

There are 5600+ replies though, so good luck going through it.

I've been following that thread. It's the one that convinced me to buy the BD30. I only recall a few being unhappy with the upconversion, most are fine with it. The LFE bug is another matter though.

 

[Shawn]

Here is the best comparison table of Blu-ray players I have seen: Link. It's much better than the old chart.

This one does show which video processors each one has though. The Reon is obviously the best and the Panasonic UniPhier the worst. The players with the Broadcom chips have been having disc compatibility issues.

IMO the Samsung BD-P1400 is the best bang for the buck right now. I might upgrade my 1200 to the 1500 when it comes out (and drops in price) because it supports internal decoding of all of the high def codecs.

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: Shawn
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb...highlight=bd30+scaling
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb...highlight=bd30+scaling

I'm going to have to borrow my friend's PS3 again. I couldn't do a direct A/B comparison the last time, but I can now. Although after reading this review of the BD30 he says that DVD playback is on par with the PS3, so I don't know what to think.

I'll also have to play with the Reon chip in my preamp now.

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: Shawn
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb...highlight=bd30+scaling
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb...highlight=bd30+scaling

I'm going to have to borrow my friend's PS3 again. I couldn't do a direct A/B comparison the last time, but I can now. Although after reading this review of the BD30 he says that DVD playback is on par with the PS3, so I don't know what to think.

I'll also have to play with the Reon chip in my preamp now.

Well that review states that the PS3 does a pretty bad job of displaying DVDs.

The BD30 reminded me of the Sony Playstation 3 in its performance and had nearly identical results in our DVD benchmark. This player could not pass any of our high detail cadence tests and never locked on once to our resolution wedges. This is surprising considering I?ve never tested a Panasonic player before that couldn?t at least pass our standard 2-3 de-interlacing test.

Like most HD players on the market, the Panasonic DMP-BD30 delivers poor standard DVD playback that is not indicative of its price point. While I was more than happy with its Blu-ray playback capabilities, I would still suggest looking elsewhere for high end DVD playback or keeping your dedicated DVD player if you already have one.

If your receiver has a reon chip you should connect your blu-ray player to it with component and let it upconvert standard DVDs.

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: Shawn

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: Shawn
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb...highlight=bd30+scaling
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb...highlight=bd30+scaling

I'm going to have to borrow my friend's PS3 again. I couldn't do a direct A/B comparison the last time, but I can now. Although after reading this review of the BD30 he says that DVD playback is on par with the PS3, so I don't know what to think.

I'll also have to play with the Reon chip in my preamp now.

Well that review states that the PS3 does a pretty bad job of displaying DVDs.

The BD30 reminded me of the Sony Playstation 3 in its performance and had nearly identical results in our DVD benchmark. This player could not pass any of our high detail cadence tests and never locked on once to our resolution wedges. This is surprising considering I?ve never tested a Panasonic player before that couldn?t at least pass our standard 2-3 de-interlacing test.

Like most HD players on the market, the Panasonic DMP-BD30 delivers poor standard DVD playback that is not indicative of its price point. While I was more than happy with its Blu-ray playback capabilities, I would still suggest looking elsewhere for high end DVD playback or keeping your dedicated DVD player if you already have one.

Yeah, thats what I meant when I said I didn't know what to think. Until I read that, I thought the PS3 was good at scaling.

 

[Shawn]

If your receiver has a reon chip you should connect your blu-ray player to it with component and let it upconvert standard DVDs.

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: Shawn
If your receiver has a reon chip you should connect your blu-ray player to it with component and let it upconvert standard DVDs.

Im pretty sure it will do it with HDMI.

IMO the Samsung BD-P1400 is the best bang for the buck right now. I might upgrade my 1200 to the 1500 when it comes out (and drops in price) because it supports internal decoding of all of the high def codecs.

Samsung has too many problems playing new Blu-ray disks. I stopped following the threads for the 1200 & 1400, but when I last checked it was a nightmare.